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I'm considering getting rid of my 2013 Acura TL SH-AWD 6 speed manual, but I'm at a loss trying to figure out the value. It is in good shape overall, but does have a few issues that I know will lower the value. It is charcoal grey with a black interior. The car has 21k miles on it. It has an aftermarket sub and amp added, and it is lowered with H&R sport springs. I'm wondering I wouldn't be better off buying factory springs for it though. Now for the biggest issue, it was in a minor wreck. I hit a deer at about 30mph. This put a small crack in the front bumper, grill, broke the headlight, and put a dent in the drivers fender. I went through insurance and had everything replaced that was damaged and used all OEM parts. They initially repainted just the bumper and fender and blended into the driver door, but I wasn't happy with the match. They repainted it again and got a good match, but I made them paint the hood, both fenders, the bumper, grille, and the drivers door. They also chose to blend it into the pillar and rear drivers door. I'm not really sure why because neither door even needed to be painted. It just needed to be blended into the fenders better.
The paint isn't perfect here. If you get close at an angle in dusk you can see a few random contamination bubbles, but that's me being a perfectionist. I've had several others look at the car and tell me they don't see anything wrong. You can also see light scratches from the dealer buffing it if you look in the right light.
Other than that, it has a small ding under the gas cap. I'm not sure what it's from, and a small ding under the door handle. I'm guessing someone opened a door into it or a rock hit it or something.
I can add pictures if I need to.
I feel like I'm making the car sound worse than it is, but I just want to be completely up front to try to get a decent idea on the value. Anyone have any ideas? I've never really liked this car as much as I expected and it's making me want to upgrade to something else with a bit more luxuy and power.
Last edited by hometheaterman; 05-15-2015 at 09:52 AM.
I paid $31k for a 17k mile 2013 less than a year ago. No paint work (though it did have glass replaced with OEM) and no accidents.
Having an accident *is* going to affect the value.
KellyBlueBook, NADA, etc are all going to give you roughly correct estimates. I'd also look at the forum's Cars for Sale section and see what similar cars have sold for recently (with or without an accident).
Personally, I'm not buying a car with an accident/paintwork. I feel like it's dropped your car into at least the 'Good' category on KBB which when spec'd out values your car at ~$30k for a Private Party sale. 'Fair' estimates it at ~$28k.
I'd recommend taking it to CarMax and getting an offer from them to see what their offer is, it should be ~$25k (they'll use KBB and NADA Trade In Value).
The springs and sub add $0 to the value of the vehicle.
I just did NADA, and it's about the same:
Last edited by TheMuffinMan; 05-15-2015 at 09:56 AM.
Carmex uses the Meinheim guide for their auto buying guide. That is the price that they would be able to buy the car at auction. It will be lower than what KBB says the car value would be.
it's a manual, so it will worth a little less to most potential buyers.
Check any dealership that's selling TL's and look at the MAJOR price differences between manuals and Autos. Manuals sell for 2000-4000 dollars more than comparable automatics. OP, use this to your advantage.
No it's not. Unless you're an enthusiast you aren't going to pay more for it.
For 99% of the buyers out there they don't care for the manual transmission. If you're on this forum, you're more likely to be an enthusiast and therefore we are a terrible sample size for auto/manual.
There's a reason the new Z06 comes in an automatic...
No it's not. Unless you're an enthusiast you aren't going to pay more for it.
For 99% of the buyers out there they don't care for the manual transmission. If you're on this forum, you're more likely to be an enthusiast and therefore we are a terrible sample size for auto/manual.
There's a reason the new Z06 comes in an automatic...
Disagree. The proof is in what these things are selling for vs automatics and also what you can trade them in for vs automatics (assuming you negotiate correctly) . I'm not sure how someone who follows these forums can't see that.
The demand for the manuals FAR outweighs the supply of them. Thats a FACT.
You may both be correct. Those who don't know how to drive a stick or don't want to be bothered to do so because they're texting, shaving, eating, applying make-up, etc. while driving won't give the MT a second look. But those who are enthusiasts will pay extra for the MT. It's a matter of finding the right buyer.
You may both be correct. Those who don't know how to drive a stick or don't want to be bothered to do so because they're texting, shaving, eating, applying make-up, etc. while driving won't give the MT a second look. But those who are enthusiasts will pay extra for the MT. It's a matter of finding the right buyer.
Yep. I'm not disputing auto drivers dont care about the manuals, or the fact that there is only a small percentage that want a manual. But if you search on Auto trader right now, there are NINE 4G MMC manuals in the entire COUNTRY.
There are 3-400 of auto's.
Any good condition manuals are snapped up within weeks. People who are looking will create auto alerts on auto trader and be willing to drive 100's of miles to get one. And pay more, a LOT more. 1000's more. So obviously they will fetch more on a trade in, If the person trading in handles it correctly. Now if you accept some used car dealers line of bullshit that manuals aren't worth anymore than an auto and "no one wants a manual", well, the jokes on you because that very same dealer will sell that manual for a premium over any comparable auto. I'm not speaking from conjecture, I'm speaking from experience.
Yep. I'm not disputing auto drivers dont care about the manuals, or the fact that there is only a small percentage that want a manual. But if you search on Auto trader right now, there are NINE 4G MMC manuals in the entire COUNTRY.
There are 3-400 of auto's.
Any good condition manuals are snapped up within weeks. People who are looking will create auto alerts on auto trader and be willing to drive 100's of miles to get one. And pay more, a LOT more. 1000's more. So obviously they will fetch more on a trade in, If the person trading in handles it correctly. Now if you accept some used car dealers line of bullshit that manuals aren't worth anymore than an auto and "no one wants a manual", well, the jokes on you because that very same dealer will sell that manual for a premium over any comparable auto. I'm not speaking from conjecture, I'm speaking from experience.
Lol, there's less of them for sale because they made less of them.
Added to that the people that bought them were likely enthusiasts and more likely to hold onto them.
If a person is an enthusiast, they will pay more for a manual. I'm not arguing that. However there are thousands of people that want a TL, aren't enthusiasts, and are not going to pay a dime more for a manual transmission.
You're lying to yourself if you think otherwise.
A dealership (like Carmax) is not going to give two flying shits if it's manual or not. They're going to see it has an accident and give you whatever NADA/KBB/etc says it's worth.
*edit* And based on your previous posts (like getting extra insurance) you're clearly in denial about your car's real worth. Don't lie to yourself, please. Is it rare? Yes. Does 99.9999% of the population think your car is rare/worth more/amazing balls like you do? No they don't.
Last edited by TheMuffinMan; 05-17-2015 at 11:13 AM.
If you're looking for a manual 4G the higher the chances are that you're also an enthusiast
Manual 4G's do go for more than automatics
They go for more if you're an enthusiast because you're bidding against other enthusiasts for the car.
If you showed 99% of the population two TL SH-AWD w/ Tech that had similar mileage, history, etc and one was Auto and the other Manual they will absolutely not say "Oh that manual is easily worth $2k more!"
If the average person says that I will literally eat my shoe. Like I said to the other dude, you're lying to yourself if you think it's worth more to a non-enthusiast.
Here is the information CARMAX will be looking at, as a Dealer we look at what recent ones have sold for however in this case some of that is thrown out the window, ie: some of us love the Manual and appreciate the rarity of it and know how to sell it, others will take closer look at the paintwork and what documentation goes along with it and how much the repair was. From what you said almost half of the car was painted so depending on how its done and if the accident shows on a Carfax that will affect it too. Here is Manheim shows and what Carmax or any dealer will look at then it's all about how it looks now and how do you adjust for the repairs which is just an opinion. I think Carmax would be in the $24500-$25000 range. If you would look at the screen shot norally it might be as high as $26000. This is just my point of view with 20 years at an Acura Dealership. Personally I wish you were in Kansas City, I would love to see it and trade for it if it all checks out.
There are 10 Berlina Black *total*
There are 8 Grand Prix White *total*
There is only 1 2009 GPW Delete (7 were made in 2008)
That is rare. That is a car that cannot be easily replaced. A manual TL is difficult to find, it's not exceptionally rare.
However, my point still stands. To the average person, they don't care there was only 8 GPW Delete models - that car doesn't have AC or a Radio. If I stack it against a regular S2000 (comparably equipped w/ Hardtop) the average car buyer isn't going to think that 2009 CR is worth more.
To an enthusiast it is, clearly. To a collector, definitely.
I wasn't the one that subtracted $800 from the price for a manual transmission - NADA did. Same thing about insurance, they don't care that it's a rarer car.
They go for more if you're an enthusiast because you're bidding against other enthusiasts for the car.
If you showed 99% of the population two TL SH-AWD w/ Tech that had similar mileage, history, etc and one was Auto and the other Manual they will absolutely not say "Oh that manual is easily worth $2k more!"
If the average person says that I will literally eat my shoe. Like I said to the other dude, you're lying to yourself if you think it's worth more to a non-enthusiast.
Added to this, the OP has an accident on the car.
Dude. I can tell you for a fact I got 3000.00 more than auction, NADA, blue book, black book whatever book you want to use BECAUSE my car was a manual.
I had 4 or 5 dealers try to feed me the same line of bullshit that your talking about that my car wasn't worth anymore because it was a manual ( an 08 type S). I went with one of the two dealers who believed otherwise. And it was STILL a good deal for them because they moved it off their lot in less than a week for STILL a healthy profit.
Dealers pay more for manuals for a reason. Unless they can convince you otherwise, and maybe you bought their line of BS at some point I dont know. But that's all it is, a line of BS.
Having said that, his accident will hurt value for sure.
Will only an enthusiast buy his car ? I guess if you consider everyone who likes the TL and likes a manual an "enthusiast". Some people (a minority for sure) just like manuals. And judging by the way these fly off the lot, theres wayyyyy more "enthusiasts" than there are supply to give them.
Dude. I can tell you for a fact I got 3000.00 more than auction, NADA, blue book, black book whatever book you want to use BECAUSE my car was a manual.
I had 4 or 5 dealers try to feed me the same line of bullshit that your talking about that my car wasn't worth anymore because it was a manual ( an 08 type S). I went with one of the two dealers who believed otherwise. And it was STILL a good deal for them because they moved it off their lot in less than a week for STILL a healthy profit.
Dealers pay more for manuals for a reason. Unless they can convince you otherwise, and maybe you bought their line of BS at some point I dont know. But that's all it is, a line of BS.
Having said that, his accident will hurt value for sure.
Will only an enthusiast buy his car ? I guess if you consider everyone who likes the TL and likes a manual an "enthusiast". Some people (a minority for sure) just like manuals. And judging by the way these fly off the lot, theres wayyyyy more "enthusiasts" than there are supply to give them.
Ok doe key chief. Keep drinking that KoolAid.You clearly know more than everyone else combined.
Guess you should call NADA and tell them their -775 should actually be a +3000
I hate we can't edit posts. I wanted to just put a note that it's fair to say that it is not 100% incorrect to say the manual transmission is not worth more to most potential buyers as per SilverJ's post here Call it 50% incorrect if you want, but it certainly is not 100%.
Which was the whole reason we went off on a tangent.
Facts:
* The car has an accident
* KBB has Private sale has it at $28k-30k
* NADA has it at ~$28k "retail"
* Manheim has it at ~$26k
A dealer is obviously going to offer you less for the vehicle, so CarMax (or similar) will likely value it at ~$25-26k.
Private party will get you $28-$30k.
SilverJ will pay you $40k for the vehicle.
Also, I'm not saying only an enthusiast will buy the car. I'm saying only an enthusiast is going to pay *more* for a manual transmission when there's a equally equipped automatic. 99.99% of buyers are not going to be enthusiasts. They're going to be 40+ year old people that want a comfy Acura sedan.
I hate we can't edit posts. I wanted to just put a note that it's fair to say that it is not 100% incorrect to say the manual transmission is not worth more to most potential buyers as per SilverJ's post here Call it 50% incorrect if you want, but it certainly is not 100%.
Which was the whole reason we went off on a tangent.
Facts:
* The car has an accident
* KBB has Private sale has it at $28k-30k
* NADA has it at ~$28k "retail"
* Manheim has it at ~$26k
A dealer is obviously going to offer you less for the vehicle, so CarMax (or similar) will likely value it at ~$25-26k.
Private party will get you $28-$30k.
SilverJ will pay you $40k for the vehicle.
Also, I'm not saying only an enthusiast will buy the car. I'm saying only an enthusiast is going to pay *more* for a manual transmission when there's a equally equipped automatic. 99.99% of buyers are not going to be enthusiasts. They're going to be 40+ year old people that want a comfy Acura sedan.
Standing by my original statement a few posts back.
Originally Posted by SilverJ
Having said that, his accident will hurt value for sure. Will only an enthusiast buy his car ? I guess if you consider everyone who likes the TL and likes a manual an "enthusiast". Some people (a minority for sure) just like manuals. And judging by the way these fly off the lot, theres wayyyyy more "enthusiasts" than there are supply to give them.
That's the facts man pure and simple.
You do realize that we are not really disagreeing with each other here right ?
I can only base my experience on real life experience. Not what a book says. There's exceptions to every rule, always.
Thanks for the help guys. I got offered 25k by Crown Acura, so it looks like what you all are saying is very close. Now I just can't decide if I should should list it for sale or just keep it.
I'm really not thrilled with the car, but at the same time I can't find anything else I really like more (other than my old Accord 6-6MT which I still DD). I'd love to go with a Lexus, but I hate to give up the manual transmission. I looked at the BMW 335i when I bought this car and wasn't super impressed, but I may go take another look at some of their offerings.
considering the accident, that's not a bad offer. I would say negotiate around but the accident is a killer. Check out the Audi S3. Very nice car, not sure of your budget.
^^ I cross shopped them and have to disagree. Better features, seats, tech, etc. on the TL, and, in 6MT form, the TL is as fast or faster, both straightline and on a road course. Of course, if someone wants to pay a lot more for a less reliable car, then the 535 is the car for them.
I've driven both in 6MT form. I trust my experience in the driver's seat. The 535i M sport wins my vote every time. Regarding luxury? No contest, the nod goes to the 5'er. Better materials, real wood, better leather...the list goes on.
You got me on reliability. This is all my opinion.
I'm more interested in what the OP decides to go with given his parameters.
05-15-2015, 09:47 AM
ok!