MikeJer

Hi! Forum newbie here, but a longtime lurker.

I'm looking to get some advice on my upcoming car purchase. Note that I'm not a car "enthusiast" but I do like to do a lot of research before making purchases and enjoy a modestly fun ride. I'm also a single guy, late 20s, plan on owning the car for 7-10 years, and hope to start a family in the next 3+ years. (Finding the right girl is a challenge!)

I currently have an '05 TSX (non-navi) with 63k miles that has done very well for me over the years (no real issues) but is beginning to show its age; I bought it in '07. I'm about ready to trade it in for a newer Acura.

My biggest complaints about the TSX: lots of road noise, rough ride on mediocre-to-poor roads, interior is a little cramped (back seats especially), and there's a lack of power in freeway passing situations. I love everything else about the car though, from its styling (interior and exterior) to its handling to its comfort to its reliability.

I recently test drove some newer models at Acura of Lynnwood (north of Seattle) and came away with the following impressions:

2012 TL Base (FWD): Comfortable ride, but the car felt kind of bloated and large in corners. The power getting on freeways and in passing situations is better than my current TSX, but not as smooth and powerful as I was hoping for. Decent car, but the experience felt bloated and slightly sluggish overall.

2012 TL SH-AWD Advance: This thing shocked my pants off. Despite having the same body as the base model the car felt 50% lighter and more nimble. Accelerating into corners is ridiculously smooth and fun. Getting onto freeways and in passing situations was potent yet smooth. I noticed a huge difference between the 3.5L and the 3.7L engines. Going from 5-10 mph to 80 mph on an on-ramp was buttery smooth and punchy. I kind of loved the thing, including the new 2012 styling (hated the '09-'11 garish beak). My only real concern during the test drive was the window visibility: the back window is ridiculously small, and the side windows feel a bit smaller than in my TSX. The stated MPG (18/26) is a bit low for my tastes, but not so low as to be a deal-breaker. The driver's seat also felt a bit stiff/harsh, comfort-wise, compared to the base TL. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I kind of prefer the softer feel.

2013 Acura RDX AWD: Exceedingly smooth and quiet ride. I love being perched higher up in the car rather than the lower position of sedans. Engine power felt good, but more comparable to the base TL -- just not quite enough punch when I want it. My biggest complaint is easily the handling though: the steering wheel felt insanely loose/soft. Coming from a TSX, it's a massive difference in steering wheel road feel. At times I felt like I could move the wheel left and right a little bit and not get much response from the car. Cornering was better than the base TL, but not even close to as tight and fun as the SH-AWD TL.

Based on my test drives, the clear winner is the SH-AWD TL. If the RDX had SH-AWD and even slightly tighter/defined steering, I'd lean that way instead due to its increased window visibility and higher driving position.

In the test drive loop, I didn't really run across any poor roads -- only a few harsh bumps when going down the freeway. Under those conditions I was extremely pleased with how quiet the SH-AWD TL Advance was and how well it absorbed the few harsher bumps I went over, at least in comparison to my '05 TSX. I honestly felt very little difference between the base TL and the SH-AWD Advanced TL in terms of ride comfort/roughness, but I'm concerned that was just because I didn't get on any awful roads.

From everything I've read on here, I'm concerned that the 19" wheels on the Advanced package might prove to be overly harsh on rougher roads than what I tested. Should I avoid the Advance package because of this and go with Tech (18" wheels) instead? Considering the poor visibility in the TL, I'd really like the Blind Spot Info System in the Advanced package (the ventilated seats are nice, but not all that important in the northwest and our 1.5 month summers), but I'm not sure if it's worth sacrificing a quieter, smoother ride for it. Any thoughts on the SH-AWD stock 18" Tech wheels/tires vs the 19" Advance ones? Is it a huge difference, or something that can be mitigated with better tires than stock?

I prefer a quiet, moderately soft ride, but I also love great handling and feeling like I have grip on the road. I have no interest in ultra-sport modes/wheels/tires or extracting every last bit of sport out of the car though. I'd be pleased with a nice blend of sport, luxury/comfort, tech, quietness, and value.

Considering my tastes, my history with the TSX, and what I'm looking for now (2-3 years old, 10-20k miles, ~$27k pre-tax), does anyone have any other recommendations I should consider?

Thanks! This forum rocks!

Sdot

Hey Mike,

Maybe my opinion will help a bit. I had an 04 TSX that I just traded in for my 2011 TL Tech SH-AWD. My TSX had a little over 130k mi on her but she was pretty good to me through the years. Only issue I had was the A/C system died on me last year. Not bad considering it was my daily driver, my work horse. The car served it's time well with me but it was time for me to upgrade as well. I wanted to stick with Acura and was never 100% on the TL front end but it grew on me a bit and the car drives great.
I bought my 2011 here in NY on April 5th with 17k mi for $27k (CPO), I have no doubt this car will last me a while (pending some act of God). There is road noise in the cabin but I'm not bothered by it much, especially with the ELS sound system. The suspension is firm but that also goes with the car having great handling so it's a trade off I guess. There's no shortage of pot holes (or bad patch jobs) around here. I'd do my best avoiding them in the TSX so myself or the car didn't ache afterwards, I do avoid them with the TL as well but it's not bad when that inevitable bump comes. I think you'd be happy with the TL coming from a TSX guy myself. Good luck!

MikeJer

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Here's an additional question: Does anyone know if there would be any benefit to waiting until the TLX comes out before getting a '12 TL, price-wise? Would that save me >= $1k? Or would waiting another month or two not make much of a difference?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I dont think a brand new car affects the used car market.
only two things affect the value of a used car; mileage and time.

it becomes a game between you and the salesman.
who will hold out longer?
the stronger your argument and the longer you wait the more you will win.

MikeJer

Wouldn't a new model year make all the prior ones one year older though? So a 2012 would be 3 years ago instead of 2. Still might not make any difference, I suppose.

kev87a

Hey MikeJer,

I am in the exact same position you are in. Well i bought my TL. I was look at a variety of cars as it was time to buy a new car. Lexus IS, Cadi ATS, Acura TSX etc etc. I then one day found a 12 TL FWD reasonably priced FWD and test drove it. Absolutely loved the car. And considering the dealership also had a SH-AWD i gave it a go as well although it was a better ride (not by a big margin by my feel tho) i couldn't justify the extra 3-4grand (Canada) especially with worst gas mileage and issues with the torque convertor. Either way you go, you'll be happy with either FWD and SH-AWD. I was originally going to go for the TSX Tech, would have loved the V6 but they are difficult to find. But once i drove the TL i fell in love, especially with the front end (12 not 11). Might go with a kit for the back though.

RenoTL

Having an AWD-SH TL, I can understand why you liked driving the TL however, the TL and the RDX are really different types of cars. I would recommend you figure our which type of car you want to own for the next 7-10 years and then concentrate on the choices within that type of car.

MikeJer

I could go either way, RenoTL, to be honest. I don't need a taller car with a lot of cargo space such as the RDX, but I do like sitting up higher and the improved visibility out of the car. I vastly preferred the handling of the SH-AWD TL though -- way more fun to drive. I think that suits my desire/needs more, at least for the near future.

At this point I'm leaning on the TL, but I haven't completely ruled out the idea of giving the RDX another shot. Is there any way to stiffen up the RDX's steering a little bit?

Kev, thanks for the info! I actually hadn't heard about that torque converter issue until you brought it up. In doing a quick search on it, I'm suddenly quite concerned by it now. A lot of the threads on AZ regarding the issue seem very open-ended, like the problem has not been fixed yet, only held off for short periods of time. :S

I might have to reconsider my options now.

SinCity-TL

Just picked up a TL advance, my first car with 19 inch wheels. The difference between 18's and 19's is defiantly noticeable but the trade off in my opinion is worth it. If it is at all a concern test drive one with 19's just guessing roads in the Pacific Northwest can be a little rough. As far as the blind spot detection, real nice feature, nothing over the top just a nice reminder light.

Sounds like you are doing your homework so you will make the right decision. Keep us posted.

LaCostaRacer

Hi MikeJer, I think you made some very thoughtful assessments for the cars tested. I do a lot of research before buying a car as well so I appreciate where you might be coming from in trying to select that next car that will work for you for the next 5-10 years.


I would suggest ranking your needs and then assessing your future car based on those needs. One of the features your TSX had that would be missing in the TL is the fold down rear seat that is missing in the TL which has a pass-through instead.

One thing that I do know is if you have kids in the future, a 4 door sedan might not work super well as the primary vehicle. For example, when I became a Dad, we went from Maxima as vehicle #1 to Suburu Outback as being #1 with the Maxima as vehicle #2 in our stable of cars. I wouldn't pick a car now for kids yet since anything can change and a 4 door sedan will work too- millions use Camry's as that car. Wait for the kids to come before contemplating a second or replacement vehicle instead.

Sounds like the new TLX or a 2nd gen TSX/V6 could meet some of your needs depending on budget. You might find that Acura might not meet your needs as well as perhaps Honda might. Based on your comfort and performance needs a Accord V6 might not be a bad way to go.

Good luck in your choice!

MikeJer

The test drive I did included one with the 19" rims. It was considerably nicer/quieter than my '05 TSX, but the road conditions in the test loop were fairly good -- only a few harsher bumps (which felt fine). I'll definitely try to find some harsher roads next time, but all the local Acura dealerships always seem to be around nicer roads. Heh.

I wonder how widespread that torque converter issue is. Is it afflicting every single SH-AWD TL? Or only a small percentage of them?

MikeJer

Thanks for the tips, LaCostaRacer!

The new TLX looks like a great fit for me, but it's way too expensive brand new. Maybe I'll win the TLX sweepstakes! (lol.) The soonest I'd consider a TLX would be 3+ years from now, so it has 1 year to work out the kinks and another 2 for some cheaper used options. I don't want to drop ~$45k for a new model when I can get it used for almost half the price, 2 years later with 10-20k miles -- seems like a complete waste of money buying new (imho).

I have previously test driven the newer Accord. It's not bad, but I found the materials lacking and the drive uninspired. Plus: no SH-AWD, which is awesome.

I'm definitely still keeping my options open though. I think the '12 TL SH-AWD Advanced will be a great fit for me if this torque converter issue isn't too widespread -- gotta do some more research now.

LaCostaRacer

^ I reluctantly recommended the TLX but am also concerned about the initial cost of this car and if it justifies buying new like I have with my past few cars. I agree the SH-AWD is nice. Come to think about it you might want to check out a used RL which might also meet your needs and a grander scale.

I haven't heard anything about any 4g tranny issues on this forum but I also haven't been looking for them either. I'm sure there are a few people on this forum that have had problems, just like any car make will. In this forum a number of the cars will still be under warranty so you might not hear as much as you will on the 3g forum with older out-of-warranty cars. On the 3G forum, we have found that changing the AT pressure sensors might be the secret for preserving the life of the AT- that and using a better quality ATF at a shorter cycle that every 60k miles.

I have two Honda V6 products and they are running fine with me being original owner: 2005 Honda Pilot with 92k miles and 2006 Acura TL with 62k miles. Each car has had the ATF changed every 20-30k miles and the Pilot tows a camper trailer and goes offroad on a regular basis. Both trannies are working well. I use Redline ATF and change and have changed out the sensors at 30k miles for the TL and 50k miles.

BSG1

After talking about it at two different Acura dealerships, it sounds like the torque converter issue affects just a small percentage. Same with the oil consumption issues. You figure we're mostly representing a small number of Acura owners on this board, and most actual owners don't have problems. I think you're safe. Mine apparently had a software update for the TC and it runs and shifts perfectly fine.

MikeJer

Thanks for sharing what you've heard! That gives me a bit more peace of mind. Corroborating this even further, I don't hear a lot of talk about this issue on the wider interwebz. Most searches end up taking me back to AZ.

I think the '12 SH-AWD Advanced is my leading candidate at this point, but I still need to test/research out the 18" (Tech) vs 19" (Advanced) wheel differences on harsher roads.

C8N

If you were on the east coast, I would have gladly traded my 18" wheels for your 19" if you were unhappy with them

Booya4139

Surprised you felt a huge different in on ramp acceleration. I think the two models are fairly close in that regard. Either one has plenty of power for day to day driving

MikeJer

I was surprised too, actually. The SH-AWD just felt like it had more power and was quicker/smoother at getting to top speed. The actual difference may not have been a ton, but I definitely noticed a difference.

mylove4cars

Hello MikeJer,

Have you investigated the 2011 - SH-AWD - from a mechanical perspective less problems. I own a 2011 SH-AWD Loaded, purchased the vehicle with 15000 miles CPO from an Acura dealership for 25K. I drive all the time in sport mode (paddle shift) in other words spirited driving; the difference of the 6 speed tranny in 2012 was for sure not a deal breaker for me to purchase the 2011 @ the contrary, most quarks in the 2011 where worked out.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=907949

Good luck & drive safe

MikeJer

The reason why I'm focusing on the 2012 model is because of the following:
- Improved exterior styling -- much more subdued beak in the front and a sleeker looking back.
- Better fuel economy, and I've read that the 6 speed automatic is smoother than the earlier one.
- Advance package option with the BSIS. The TL's rearview window is TINY, so any safety help is welcome.
- I've read that it's a quieter cabin than earlier models.

I know the 2011 is still a great car, and it's definitely going to be a bit cheaper, but that list is quite a few drawbacks over the 2012 model.

mylove4cars

Before purchase, I test drove both cars. Gas consumption to me is very similar, noise in the cabin as well, smoother transmission, I believe almost non detectable.

I agree on improved styling which is subjective to taste. In my case I just wanted to drive both before making a decision.

Good luck

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

I had the SH-AWD Tech as a loaner and love that thing. I think the sh-awd gives you a much better handling and control. i never test drove the advance package and not sure the differences between the two.

MikeJer

Well, I got around to test driving a '12 SH-AWD Tech and Advance back-to-back yesterday.

The verdict: Tech wins!

The Tech model with the 18" wheels has a notably softer ride than the Advance does on harsher roads (which I tested them on this time). The BIG surprise was with the leather seats. This must be an undocumented difference between the two or something, but the Advance model's seats -- or, at least, the driver's seat -- is insanely stiff/firm/hard to have your back against. They stiffened the back side of the seat, maybe in an effort to make it feel sportier? Whatever the reason, the Tech seat has much more give/cushion and felt extremely comfortable.

So, sadly, I'm going to have to give up the BSIS in the Advanced and have settled on buying the '12 SH-AWD Tech. I'll be purchasing sometime in the next 3-4 weeks. I'll update this thread, maybe with pictures, once it's all said and done.

Thanks to everyone who gave me tips in this thread.

Brock79

If they were both SH-AWD models, then the seats are the same. I believe the advance has the air conditioned seats or at least the option. The difference you might have felt was how worn the seat was. Did a 250lb guy own the car with softer seats and a 90lb lady own the one with stiffer seats? This you most likely won't find the answer to, but is a very plausible answer to the seat situation.

MikeJer

They were both SH-AWD.

I've now test driven two different 2012 SH-AWD Advances, and both have noticeably stiffer seats (particularly where your upper back is) than the SH-AWD Tech does. Unless both Advances somehow got worn out at 9600 and 12,400 miles, there *is* a difference. I've been in a bunch of non-Advances at miles ranging from 9k to 30k, and none of the seats were that hard.

I had a guy working at the dealership sit in both to make sure I wasn't imagining it, and he too confirmed a noticeable difference.

weather

Mike....Well, I have had a 2006 TSX, I have a 2012 TL SH-AWD and have a 2013 RDX AWD so hopefully I can help you.

First and foremost, welcome to Acurazine and reach out to us to help you out Your overall assessment of the TL FWD, TL SH-AWD and RDX AWD was pretty much spot on. There is very little that I can add that you haven't already commented.

The SH-AWD is an amazing marvel of engineering and understanding its limitations and how to best exploit the system will give you an amazing ride experience. The 2012 does have a slightly more acceptable styling and the 6 speed tranny which is quite amazing. The TL SH-AWD does have its share of problems that you should be aware...not concerned, just aware....the propeller shaft. Now from an interior space point of view, the TL is not MUCH better than the TSX, Acura has a hard time with roomy interior (except for the RLX).

The RDX has been an amazing little SUV although its had its challenges too....the rear clunking noise and the extremely low passenger seat (which is not height adjustable). Otherwise, the engine is quite smooth, very efficient (fuel wise) but doesn't feel as torquy as the TL....could just be a tranny calibration more than anything. It still has plenty of pick up and go, but does so in a more "insulated" manner but trust me, that thing goes. I agree that the handling of the RDX doesn't feel as well planted the TL...it feels a bit jarry (fidgety) although you do get used the steering effort....trust me the steering is precise. That being said, the type of roads wil make the RDX feel like it wants to go all over the place - just on certain roads.

Overall....I would say that your best best would be the 2012 TL SH-AWD .... that vehicle just rocks and is a blast to drive!!

BEst of luck and if you have further questions, feel free to ask or send me a PM

MikeJer

I agree, weather. '12 SH-AWD Tech is my choice. I'm going to wait for one to pop up in my area with 10-20k miles in Graphite/Ebony, hopefully in the next few weeks.

Does anyone have any advice on how much I should pay for one of these right now? The local Acura dealerships here seem to be sticking to mid-KBB prices pretty firmly (~$32k pre-tax). Can I do better than that?

Brock79

I wouldn't pay 32k for it. There were a few in my area when I bought mine starting around 28-29k, but they weren't in colors I wanted. I went with a 2011 because mileage was similar and it had the Umber interior I was looking for. I also paid 26k out the door, and did I mention the mileage was similar to the 12's that were available?

MikeJer

Thanks for the suggestion, Brock.

FYI: I'm dealing with Seattle area dealerships, if that makes any difference. They seem pretty stingy, constantly quoting KBB and throwing out invoice numbers and the like. The prices I'm seeing reported here on AZ, both used and new, are thousands (like 4-5k) less than these dealerships are telling me ($32k+ for a '12 and $41k new). Maybe this area is just more expensive? :/

james21_h

Mike, i bought my 12 shawd new in seattle area. I could not get below 41k back then. I think acura is pretty popular in this area plus we only have 3 acura dealerships in wa. So i guess we are paying more than folks in other states....

andrewcjduong

I'll put in my input as well. Upgraded from an 04 TSX to my 09 TL SH-AWD. Love my new car compared to the TSX and I'll agree on the road noise and slowness of our TSX. You won't be disappointed but I wouldn't skimp out and get the FWD. The SH-AWD is undoubtedly the best investment whether it's the snow or cornering on turns.

The only complaint I have and you'll notice it right away when you jump into one is the gas mileage. Compared to our TSX, the TL is definitely not something great. I love it non the less and our family car is a hybrid so I don't mind.

MikeJer

@james: Interesting. I think you might be right about this area.

@andrew: Yeah, 18/26 MPG certainly isn't ideal. This is the one aspect of the car that'll tempt me to trade it in earlier than I generally like to (7-8 years), but fortunately I don't tend to rack up a ton of miles on my cars. My '05 TSX has only 63k miles on it, and it already had 22k when I bought it in '07!

Brock79

I live in the New York City area and prices here are ridiculous on everything, but I guess having multiple Acura dealers help as well. I see all year TL's on the road everyday so they are popular here. I bought mine in Princeton and it is a CPO as well. They had it listed at 30k but going in I knew I wasn't paying that. I was just offered 10 grand off any 2014 TL in current stock by a local dealer, this deal also needed for me to trade in my TL as well.

jim_c

It's refreshing to read such a good thread! You are certainly doing good research so I hope you end up with a good car. My TL is fwd only and I have not driven one with awd. You have discussed all the pros and cons so it comes down to what you want and what you want to pay. One comment about seats and you may know this already so sorry if this is not helpful, ...it's actually counterintuitive in that the best seats are actually the firmest. You do not want seats that feel like a lay z boy recliner. The best seats we have had were in my wife's 94 Camry. They felt stiff but you could drive for 5or6 hours in that car and feel fresh and relaxed at the end of the trip. Anyway, good luck and negotiate a good deal. If you are buying used you might want to get new tires included in the deal. Again, congrats on your well written posts.

MikeJer

Well, I did it! I got the car I wanted. 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD Tech, Graphite Luster/Ebony, 35k miles. I went a little higher on miles than I ideally wanted, but I got it for cheaper than I had budgeted for in exchange, so I'm quite pleased. 1 owner lease return, great condition.

I took it for a lakeside drive after I bought it and was in love with the thing. Fabulous car! Huge upgrade from my '05 TSX.

I'll try to throw up some pictures soon.

Thanks for all your help and suggestions!

SinCity-TL

Congratulations, 35k on an Acura is nothing. Homework done, now enjoy! Can't wait to see some pics.

Oswald Vater

Congrats on your purchase and a good effective effort on evaluating what car would work best for you! Keep the forum updated on any modifications you may want to make.

docboy

I encountered the same situation as well. For some reason in the PNW the SH-AWD seems a little more on the rare side, and dealerships here don't budge much from their sticker price.

Plus I've noticed that some models (like the MDX) have a $2,000 "market adjustment" tacked on to the price. WTH?

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Congrats!

Edward'TLS

The AWD TL is a much superior car than the TSX.

Congrats.