Unforgivable mistake
02-14-2009, 06:19 PM
#1
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Unforgivable mistake
That done by the marketing department when released the new TL by describe it as a 3 series , A4 , C class rival ,I mean by any category this TL is those segment rival "do not say the price" this TL is 5 series , A6 , E class rival and it will be hard to the marketing department to define the new CUV which is based on the TL.
bottom line the TL must not pay the price because the ill RL.
bottom line the TL must not pay the price because the ill RL.
02-14-2009, 06:32 PM
#2
Three Wheelin'
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I think what it means is that Acura doesn't have the panache to compare the TL midsize to other midship sedans. Similar to Volvo, with the S60. The TL is already having a hard time with even the slight price move upwards (although that can be attributed to the economy and questionable design). So essentially because of the lack of prestige it was best for Acura to compare it's midship sedan with other luxury brands "entry level sedans". It also supports the "Acura value" equation. Lexus does a similar thing with the ES (although Lexus is a tier one brand), and Cadillac with the CTS.
02-14-2009, 11:37 PM
#3
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That done by the marketing department when released the new TL by describe it as a 3 series , A4 , C class rival ,I mean by any category this TL is those segment rival "do not say the price" this TL is 5 series , A6 , E class rival and it will be hard to the marketing department to define the new CUV which is based on the TL.
bottom line the TL must not pay the price because the ill RL.
bottom line the TL must not pay the price because the ill RL.
But if it were about dimensions the Hyundai Genesis with a 375hp V-8 & 6AT that is about the same size as a Merc "E" class could make a better case then the TL.
02-15-2009, 12:01 AM
#4
TL is not a big car interms of capacity. It has smaller wheel base than Audi A4 let alone Audi A6/BMW-5.
Its interior+boot capacity is similar or less to Audi A4.
Fuel economy for TL-Sh-AWD is similar to 2005 RL if not for slight improvement due to lighter weight. with same 4 year old technology. Performance wise it hardly beat 4year old 3G TL.
It is just amalgamation of 2004 TL and 2005 RL. with price in between.
Its interior+boot capacity is similar or less to Audi A4.
Fuel economy for TL-Sh-AWD is similar to 2005 RL if not for slight improvement due to lighter weight. with same 4 year old technology. Performance wise it hardly beat 4year old 3G TL.
It is just amalgamation of 2004 TL and 2005 RL. with price in between.
02-15-2009, 04:46 AM
#5
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BTW if the Genesis has even V-12 & 8AT it will not be better than ACURA TL.
02-15-2009, 08:02 AM
#6
Suzuka Master
09 TL____________Length 195.5" Width 74.0" Weight 3699
09 Genesis________Length 195.9" Width 74.4" Weight 3748
08 G35 Journey____Length 187.0" Width 69.8" Weight 3508
02-15-2009, 09:53 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
That done by the marketing department when released the new TL by describe it as a 3 series , A4 , C class rival ,I mean by any category this TL is those segment rival "do not say the price" this TL is 5 series , A6 , E class rival and it will be hard to the marketing department to define the new CUV which is based on the TL.
bottom line the TL must not pay the price because the ill RL.
bottom line the TL must not pay the price because the ill RL.
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02-15-2009, 11:13 AM
#9
02-15-2009, 01:58 PM
#10
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TL is not a big car interms of capacity. It has smaller wheel base than Audi A4 let alone Audi A6/BMW-5.
Its interior+boot capacity is similar or less to Audi A4.
Fuel economy for TL-Sh-AWD is similar to 2005 RL if not for slight improvement due to lighter weight. with same 4 year old technology. Performance wise it hardly beat 4year old 3G TL.
It is just amalgamation of 2004 TL and 2005 RL. with price in between.
Its interior+boot capacity is similar or less to Audi A4.
Fuel economy for TL-Sh-AWD is similar to 2005 RL if not for slight improvement due to lighter weight. with same 4 year old technology. Performance wise it hardly beat 4year old 3G TL.
It is just amalgamation of 2004 TL and 2005 RL. with price in between.
The TL is one of the most inefficent designs, when it comes to practicality. Even though it's exterior dimensions are only a few inches off from 7 series and Lexus LS, it's interior dimensions are only slightly bigger than the 3 series.
As far as technology, the TL isn't much new, except for the intake exhaust VTEC which debuted on the global RL/Legend. SSFTSX is right that, even with all the "new" it still cannot outperform the "old" TL.
I think that is direction Acura is heading very slowly and cautiously. The 2010 TSX has a confirmed 3.5L 280hp engine. Prices are not out yet on it. The new TSX is bigger in dimension compared to the previous generation. The same goes for the TL. Once the new RL comes out, there will be a shift in the marketing of the cars. The TSX will be marketed against the 3series category, the TL against the 5 series. The new RL will compete more with the Lexus LS. I don't think it can still touch the blue bloods of the 7 series and S-class. Just my speculation.
But you got to admit SSFTSX had a point.
02-15-2009, 04:01 PM
#13
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The OP wants the TL to be pitched as a 5/E/A6 rival because of its size yet most people buying a 3/C/A4 don't consider the TL as being in the mix.
Point is what do the overall dimensions have to do with a car being a Tier I product like BMW, Mercedes & Lexus? A car becomes a Tier I product when the public perceives it to be one & by Hondas own statements the Acura is not there yet.
02-15-2009, 04:33 PM
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So is a Honda Accord. Length 194.3" Width 72.7" Weight 3600.
The OP wants the TL to be pitched as a 5/E/A6 rival because of its size yet most people buying a 3/C/A4 don't consider the TL as being in the mix.
Point is what do the overall dimensions have to do with a car being a Tier I product like BMW, Mercedes & Lexus? A car becomes a Tier I product when the public perceives it to be one & by Hondas own statements the Acura is not there yet.
The OP wants the TL to be pitched as a 5/E/A6 rival because of its size yet most people buying a 3/C/A4 don't consider the TL as being in the mix.
Point is what do the overall dimensions have to do with a car being a Tier I product like BMW, Mercedes & Lexus? A car becomes a Tier I product when the public perceives it to be one & by Hondas own statements the Acura is not there yet.
02-15-2009, 04:50 PM
#15
Standardize model line up is good for economic models like Honda. You cannot apply that standardization of Tier 1 make because People higher price for customized product according to there choice. Basically you cannot recycle 5 year old technology into new Packaging.
One of the remarkable thing about new E class is its 0.25 Cd for such huge sedan.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10145821-48.html
As standard features, the E class will have systems such as attention assist, which monitors steering response and detects drowsiness--giving drivers an audible warning as well as a message on the instrument panel. From the S class, the E class gets blind spot, night view, and lane departure warning assists, as well as radar-assisted braking.
Dieter Zetsche, CEO of Daimler AG, said the drowsiness assist "is the next best thing to handing the driver an espresso" and noted the symbol on the panel is a coffee cup
As standard features, the E class will have systems such as attention assist, which monitors steering response and detects drowsiness--giving drivers an audible warning as well as a message on the instrument panel. From the S class, the E class gets blind spot, night view, and lane departure warning assists, as well as radar-assisted braking.
Dieter Zetsche, CEO of Daimler AG, said the drowsiness assist "is the next best thing to handing the driver an espresso" and noted the symbol on the panel is a coffee cup
02-15-2009, 04:53 PM
#16
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All tire 1 competitor of TL are faster/more aerodynamic/fuel efficient/better NVH/better Options to customize and better Quality feel. I underlined Quality which is different than reliability.
Standardize model line up is good for economic models like Honda. You cannot apply that standardization of Tier 1 make because People higher price for customized product according to there choice. Basically you cannot recycle 5 year old technology into new Packaging.
One of the remarkable thing about new E class is its 0.25 Cd for such huge sedan.
Standardize model line up is good for economic models like Honda. You cannot apply that standardization of Tier 1 make because People higher price for customized product according to there choice. Basically you cannot recycle 5 year old technology into new Packaging.
One of the remarkable thing about new E class is its 0.25 Cd for such huge sedan.
02-15-2009, 05:14 PM
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02-15-2009, 05:45 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
All tire 1 competitor of TL are faster/more aerodynamic/fuel efficient/better NVH/better Options to customize and better Quality feel. I underlined Quality which is different than reliability.
Standardize model line up is good for economic models like Honda. You cannot apply that standardization of Tier 1 make because People higher price for customized product according to there choice. Basically you cannot recycle 5 year old technology into new Packaging.
One of the remarkable thing about new E class is its 0.25 Cd for such huge sedan.
Standardize model line up is good for economic models like Honda. You cannot apply that standardization of Tier 1 make because People higher price for customized product according to there choice. Basically you cannot recycle 5 year old technology into new Packaging.
One of the remarkable thing about new E class is its 0.25 Cd for such huge sedan.
My dad's 2005 MB ML500's tranny failed 3 times after delivery! You can nitpick all you want for what you think are perceived shortcomings of the TL, the fact is the new TL is one of the best cars at combining performance, quality, luxury, reliability and value....and no amount of your pointless B.S. is going to change that.
02-15-2009, 06:45 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
Unless the TLs base price goes up 10K it's not going to "directly" compete with the 5 series. And I don't think it'd be successful if it did anyway (look at the RL). Acura has a major hurdle to overcome when it comes to sedans over 40K. It's going to take time for Acura to build it's prestige etc, in order to successfully have a full lineup of sedans to compete with BMW/MB/Lexus.
02-15-2009, 06:59 PM
#21
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Delusional
I love when people justify their ride by dumping on other manufacturers. It's common knowledge that the build quality of the TL is nowhere near that of the Germans and Lexus. As it's out of the same US plant as the Accord, it has the same issues: rattles, mismatched paint, cheap plastic, etc. Fail.
02-15-2009, 07:08 PM
#23
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I love when people justify their ride by dumping on other manufacturers. It's common knowledge that the build quality of the TL is nowhere near that of the Germans and Lexus. As it's out of the same US plant as the Accord, it has the same issues: rattles, mismatched paint, cheap plastic, etc. Fail.
02-15-2009, 07:20 PM
#25
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I don't know, if I agree with you. The M and the GS start in the low $40s. The SH-AWD will probably be the base. It will get some of the amenities that the RL currently has. Acura will never compete directly against the Germans. It's main rivals are the other Japanese, Lexus and Infiniti.
02-15-2009, 07:23 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
I love when people justify their ride by dumping on other manufacturers. It's common knowledge that the build quality of the TL is nowhere near that of the Germans and Lexus. As it's out of the same US plant as the Accord, it has the same issues: rattles, mismatched paint, cheap plastic, etc. Fail.
02-15-2009, 09:18 PM
#27
Suzuka Master
I love when people justify their ride by dumping on other manufacturers. It's common knowledge that the build quality of the TL is nowhere near that of the Germans and Lexus. As it's out of the same US plant as the Accord, it has the same issues: rattles, mismatched paint, cheap plastic, etc. Fail.
WOW where do you get this from? I pick on Acura for squeaks and rattles in year one, but over all I think they make one of the best built cars. My biggest faults are squeaks and rattles and the way they hang and match bumpers. the 4G TL is a huge improvments, I have only heard one noise in the car and even that I'm not sure wasn't something I had in the trunk and the bumpers on the 4G are a much better color match than the 3G was and are hung much better. I see a big improvemnt in the 4G int he fit and finish department.
Go read the Infiniti forums at G35driver.com and you'll see tons of rattle complaints, maybe not as bad as year 1 Honda/Acura, but considering the G is in year 3 now it seems to be a problem. I have also heard of Lexus issues with squeaks and rattles too, so all vendors are subject to fit and finish issues.
02-15-2009, 09:24 PM
#28
]MB, BMW etc have factories in Mexico and China
omg i just found out BMW and MB have US plants??? whatever
omg i just found out BMW and MB have US plants??? whatever
02-15-2009, 09:28 PM
#29
02-15-2009, 10:37 PM
#30
Sales of the SH-AWD model are only expected to make up 20% of overall TL sales. Most are going to be the Base $35K model. If you look at TL sales for last month, and take 20% and then compare that number to the M and GS, you'll see the TL still comes up short. The point is Acura has a hard time competing in the $+40K sedan segment, which true Tier one makes compete in. The RL is a disaster and the TL isn't looking to be doing much better (even with more power and luxury). As for Lexus and Infiniti they both seems to be doing very well, marketing and selling in the over $40,000 sedan segment.
02-16-2009, 08:46 AM
#31
Suzuka Master
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I have a '04 330 6MT convertible with almost 70K miles which has been in 0 times for unscheduled maintenance.
My '06 TL 6MT with 30K miles has been in for 3rd/reverse gear replacement TSB, power steering hose replacement recall, windshield wiper motor replacement recall, failed tail light assembly 3 weeks old & failed battery.
Based on the comments in the 3G thread never bothered about the rattles & the items I listed are not unique to my car.
This board is staring to turn up issues of its own regarding the 4G's quality/reliability despite the car not being sold for very long or in much volume.
As for overall reliability the only vehicle I owned in the past 10 years that has had anything like the shop visits the TL has had in a 98 ford 4X4 pickup which needed 3rd gear syncro replaced & fuel pump replaced.
Just two other things, I am sure you have found any number of people have had differences of opinion with you on many different topics & not everyone who has a difference of opinion with you is a troll.
Finally, it will be interesting to see if the 2010 TSX with the 280hp V6 & 6AT will pirate sales from the TL lineup.
http://www.motorauthority.com/acura-...sx-lineup.html
BTW the X-5 is made in the US like the TL
02-16-2009, 11:20 AM
#32
.... .... .... ... ....
The V8 Genesis is an awesome car.
if acura will keep up.
02-16-2009, 02:32 PM
#38
Edmunds have done comparision test. Lexus GS350 achieved 23mpg even better than 4cylinder TSX while Hyundai gensis is 17.5 mpg.
More over performance is pretty similar of V8 and V6. Lexus have Vented disc brakes and summer performance tires/spoiler in its $50K price. Only $7k price difference. For Luxury buyers the Smaller size and excellent design of Lexus is worth extra $7K even in depreciaiton. Deprecaition of V8 sedan is horriable to say the least.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=145836
More over performance is pretty similar of V8 and V6. Lexus have Vented disc brakes and summer performance tires/spoiler in its $50K price. Only $7k price difference. For Luxury buyers the Smaller size and excellent design of Lexus is worth extra $7K even in depreciaiton. Deprecaition of V8 sedan is horriable to say the least.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do.../pageId=145836
02-16-2009, 05:29 PM
#39
6G TLX-S
Troll, you forgot to mention the "small" fact that almost all of TL's Tier 1 competitors are also much more expensive and have lower reliability. Quality doesn't mean much if reliability isn't there. My previous 2002 BMW X5 and 2005 545i were in the dealer repair shop a whopping combined total of 12 times! My dad's 2005 MB ML500's tranny failed 3 times after delivery! You can nitpick all you want for what you think are perceived shortcomings of the TL, the fact is the new TL is one of the best cars at combining performance, quality, luxury, reliability and value....and no amount of your pointless B.S. is going to change that.
My dad's 2005 MB ML500's tranny failed 3 times after delivery! You can nitpick all you want for what you think are perceived shortcomings of the TL, the fact is the new TL is one of the best cars at combining performance, quality, luxury, reliability and value....and no amount of your pointless B.S. is going to change that.
02-16-2009, 06:12 PM
#40
