Ramrodthrusterpuppy

...today, and I gotta say that I'm very impressed! Aesthetics aside, I think it's safe to say that it is a better car than my 3G TL-S in almost (but not quite) every respect, IMO.

Today is my day off and while running some errands I decided to pop into my local dealer to look at a trunk tray for my TL-S when lo and behold they had 5 new TL AWD TECHs sitting there. As I was checking one of them out ( a Grigio w/ black leather - with the gorgeous combo, but they had 2 CBP with the Umber leather...WOW! That's what I would get) the salesman who sold me my car last year just walks up to me, tosses me the key and says "Ya gotta try it....go out for a spin and enjoy."...Gotta love that!

And took it for a spin I did...for about an hour and a half! Like I said, I think that it does almost everything better than my Type S. Interior is beautiful, more room than my 3G....I fit in my TL-S *OK* but I have lots of head/shoulder room in the 4G (adjustable seat height much better in 4G). I just LOVE the beefy steering wheel and more sculpted seats, makes my 3G wheel feel like something out of a bus, and the NAVI screen is lightyears better...much higher resolution. Also, the 4G's sound system is stellar. The only thing that I wasn't that fond of was the textured material covering the dash...seems like it'd trap a lot of crud. I know that there has been a lot of complaints about the center stack's multitude of buttons but I kinda like it. I didn't find it bewildering at all...after a few minutes of familiarizing myself with the arrangement, I pretty much knew where everything was. All in all a big thumbs up for the interior!

After driving it in town for awhile and especially on the highway I find that the new car with an auto is almost as responsive as my 6MT TL-S....this pleasantly surprised me. My car still seems quicker out of the hole than the auto 4G but I'm sure that the upcoming 4G 6MT will solve that problem. Another 30 ft/lbs or so with the auto would solve that as well...hell, I'd even get the auto! The engine sounds wonderful, I found myself blipping the paddles just to hear it rev...they must have toned down the ANC with the new one....one thing that I really dislike about my 3G, you can barely hear the engine unless you're WOT. Again, another score for performance.

Handling is superb IMO for such a big car. Even with the Michelin PS2s on a Winter's day here, the car sticks like glue. The SH AWD virtually eliminates the torque steer (one thing I absolutely HATE in my car). It'll be interesting to see how the 6MT and SH AWD meshes together. Although I do find that the ride is a bit harsh/flinty on rough roads like we have up here....everywhere
But overall, I find that it drives beautifully...with a good set of Winter tires, we wouldn't need 4WD for snow.

And the aesthetics....well, everyone has their subjective opinion and it does sound cliche, but I find that the car looks vastly better in person. The 2 styling cues that I never really liked with this design are, of course; the beak and the front wheel humps. The humps disappear somewhat with a darker colour...but the beak still really bothers me. However, would it stop me from buying the car?...no way. I find that in the right colour (the Grigio or CBP) with the AWD package and bigger wheels (beautiful), the car looks very sharp....I dig it.

Would I love to get one now? After driving it....absolutely! I think that Acura did a really good job with it and it's still a helluva value over the competition.

Will I get one now? No way....I've only had my TL-S for a year and if I bought a new one my wife would have my head....both of them!

However, in a couple of years....all I can say is I REALLY hope that they come out with a Type S...'cuz I'll be the first in line!

Colin

Great review. As for the engine sound on the current car, I wonder if a little tape over the ANC microphones in the headliner would give your more engine sound?

bmode

Nice ramrod. I think that pretty much sums it up. A lot of 3G'ers are playing the hate roll and not even considering the 4G, I think because they're not in a situation of getting a new car. If I didn't need a back in Nov, I would've hung on to mine too, but moving forward I think most of them like yourself will feel different when the time comes of needing a new whip. It's a natural progression. All TL's rock!

p6889k

Funny thing, I have just also returned from Acura dealer.

I went there with the intention of test-driving the car, but sadly never got to it. I think I got over the new exterior design, the "beak" never bothered me as much as the overall complexity of all the different angles, but it has certainly grown on me. Today was however the first time I was able to sit inside and I was very dissapointed by quality of materials and general flimsines of interior pieces. There were way too many flat plastic surfaces (e.g. door handles), the knobs were flimsy, the hanbrake had too much wiggle room, etc... I currently drive a 1999 Audi A6, and the materials and build quality on my 11 year old car are still way ahead of brand new 40K Acura. I was basically so dissapointed that I forgot about test-driving it.

They also had a 09 RL, and I loved the interior materials on that. The steering wheel was little bit too big, but overall it was very nice inside. The TL should have those kind of materials or at least something in between the TL and RL.

I also went to Infiniti to look at the G37 and M35 Sport. They had several 08 M35 Sport demo cars at roughly $12K discounts. I could have gotten 08 M35 Sport for $39,000 or less if I negotiated. Wow, if I was buying today, that would have been my choice. Very sporty looking, high quality materials and what a price.

I also went to Audi to checkout the new 09 A4. Very nice and solid build, more expensive than TL, but at least I would be able to justify the price. I could not justify the price for TL.

All of my observations were done scritly on the look/feel, all of the cars I looked at today offer plenty of performance for my style of driving.

I assume that someone looking specifically for a great perfomance and relatively low price should be very happy with the TL, but if you're looking for a balanced luxury car around $40-$45K - there are a lot of other great options.

I wonder what happens when TL-S comes out. Could it have some upgraded materials, just like for example Audi S, S-Line, etc. ?

tm86it

I thought I had finally decided on the AWD TL, but after driving behind a TL for awhile, I'm having 2nd thoughts.

I don't mind the front at all anymore, but the rear just isn't doing it for me... in fact, worse, I think it's just plain unattractive.

Bummed cause I actually found the PMM and Umber interior after looking for a bit, and have a dealer willing to deal, but now I'm not sure sure. I'll have to go back to the dealer and spend some time looking at them again.

Why oh why did Acura get so radical & daring on the exterior design?

I love the interior, ELS stereo is best stock stereo I've ever heard, umber leather is gorgeous, seats very comfortable, screen and controls very intuitive and great to me, there's just the rear end thing now...

crxb

Ramrodthrusterpuppy - good review - I came from an 04 3G 5AT. - didn't like the new car's looks at 1st. the 3G was in for service - loaner fwd 4G tech - got me thinking - test drove the SH-AWD car - worked a deal over about a week or so - bought the SH-AWD w/ HPT BBP. - infomercial (now in reruns) over. As far as the dash - I just hope it doesn't have that fad issue of the 3G - my 3G's dash - I used the Aerospace 303 and put a front window shade up winter and summer - after seeing other's w/ the awful fading.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

This is the first time that I've ever heard this about any TL....let alone the new 4G. I've always loved Audis and especially admire their interiors but no way are they that far ahead of the TL...especially the 4G. The fit and finish of the 4G interior is superb. All the surfaces have give and feel rich, real aluminum is used for the trim (like the 3G), the new sound system is incredible (play Pink floyd - Live @ Pompeii DVD-A if you can find it....unreal on the 4G ELS system.) and the general heft of all switchgear is solid. The 4G handbrake in particular feels like a solid chunk of material on a pivot...no play at all.

Plus the fact that the size of everything inside the car "feels" right in size...especially for a big guy like me. One thing I had noticed when shopping for cars last year..particularly the German cars, is that the gearshift knob, e-brake handle and other pieces felt too small in my (admittedly large) hands...almost felt like a toy. The TL feels substantial...solid.

Sorry p6889k, I totally disagree with your assessment of the interior.

bmode

I disagree as well. The parts that are cheap, are really insignificant to me. Someone mentioned the blinker sounds cheap, you know what... it does sound cheap! But it works and I got music playing so I don't really hear it. The door lock pieces are cheap, but they work and again are insignificant. How often do you really use the emergency brake, and it's got wiggle room? I guess you can nit pick all day on this car, but the bottom line is I love it, and the few cheap parts don't bother me, at least I know this won't end up like Audi's or BMW's, always in the shop. So it's cool to hear feedback like this, it just goes to show that opinions vary from car to car. By the way I love the back of the 4G TL. Great job Acura!

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

I actually use the e-brake every time that I park...I set it...manual or auto, doesn't matter to me. Keeps the cables from seizing...I've replaced seized e-brake cables in the past on vehicles that I've owned...not fun. So since then I've always used the e-brake.

bmode

I hear ya, but it's not really part of the driving performance. I use the E brake every time too, and actually mine's pretty tight come to think of it. The 3G brake used to go much higher and have more wiggle room, hmm.

hydr0

My hand brake is solid, and doesn't look or feel cheap at all. As for the door lock, who cares lol. Set the car preferences so that when you put it in Park, the doors open, and when you shift to Drive they lock. I don't think I've used the manual door lock once yet lol.

jmaikamon

Are you insane? I know some things are up to your opinion but did you fall and bump your head? You may have tunnel vision because that is your car but that is one-sided. I lived in Germany for 12 years and I have driven several Audis, NONE of which are way ahead of the 4G TL. Audi didn't start making a quality product till 2002-3 model year. If it makes you sleep better at night please believe that you "build quality on your 11 year old car are still way ahead of a brand new Acura," as long as when you wake up you realize it was only a DREAM!!!

p6889k

It seems that a lot of you disagree with my assessment of the interior material quality/feel. As you're reading my original post, please remember that I was strictly commenting on the type of interior materials and their solidness. I was seeing little bit too much of plain plastic and some flimsy controls. That doesn't mean that everything was bad or that it would all break soon, just that to the touch and sometimes to the eye it did not say "luxury" or "near-luxury" to me - the RL did. Sometimes the few minor details can take away from otherwise a great car. I simply expected more from vehicle in this price category - maybe that was my mistake as the TL is cheaper than the other cars I mentioned.

When I was referring to my old A6, I was also strictly using it to compare the type and quality of interior materials and the solidness of controls. As far as general car reliability (both mechanical and electronic) goes, I'm sure the TL is way ahead of my A6. The A6 looks great and fit and finish aged very well, but it's in the shop non-stop for one thing or another. It gets very expensive, but I must say that even now 11 years later, the car is visually solid inside and out and drives well. None of the controls are faded or wiggly, leather looks good, door and dash materials are not faded. I don't know how TL ages in this regard.

We all obviously buy cars for different reasons and have to balance different aspects of the car vs. purchase price vs. long-term value/costs. The TL is a very sensible choice, but maybe not for everyone and definitely not all aspects of it. There is obviously something drawing me to Acura, otherwise I wouldn't be posting on this board. I look forward to your comments and future threads.

04WDPinSC

I know that it's pointless to get involved in this type of argument (especially with someone with only 4 posts), but I can't seem to resist. I know that it is generally accepted that VW/Audi have some of the best looking, best designed interiors in the business. However, as anyone who has ever owned (or knows someone who's owned) a 5+ year old German car, they quickly stop WORKING as well as they look. The smarter German-car buyers lease the vehicles, less for the cost savings, but because as soon as they run out of warranty everything electrical goes haywire (pun intended!)

My boss had a new 2000 or 2001 7-Series that he quickly got rid of because it was in the shop practically monthly for one thing or another. He traded it in for an Infiniti and has seldom had to take it in for anything other than regular oil changes.

A good friend of mine bought a used 99 525 in 2004. The car appeared in pretty good condition, and ran pretty well except that when idling at a traffic light, the engine surged. The CD changer quit working half of the time. Both rear seatbelt buckles broke so you could only sit in the middle position of the back seat. The passengers power headrest height adjustment stopped working. The remote keyless entry stopped working. The ignition went out and the car was unusable for a week while a new one was sent over from Germany. The adhesive on the chrome window trim surrounding the front windshield came loose and required the entire front windshield be replaced. The wiper motor failed...in the rain...while driving down the interstate at 70 miles per hour...FUN! He hit a really nasty pothole which bottomed out the front suspension which in turn damaged a fuse box which caused the car to again be parked for nearly a week while parts were ordered. The tech said that no suspension parts were damaged/bent, and he was baffled as to how the suspension collided with the fuse box--but it apparently did nevertheless. The car was purchased from a 50-year-old woman who did not dog the car or mistreat it in any noticeable way (that we could tell), but practically anything that could go wrong, did in the 3 years that he owned the car. He finally got rid of it because the monthly cost of repairs was more than payments on a newer vehicle.

Another friend bought a new 2005 Jetta. She has had the A/C go out, the rear trunk latch broke so the trunk would not stay closed, the solenoid which releases the gear shift when your foot is on the brake went out, a sensor on the exhaust system went out and caused the check engine light to stay on, and the radio had to be replaced because the CD player refused to eject CD's.

I have a co-worker who had a 2004 325 he bought used last year. He's had the radio replaced, the keyless entry module replaced, both rear wheel bearings replaced, and had several interior trim pieces which just "fell off" while driving down the road. The car shows no evidence of having been wrecked.

Now I know that 4 cars hardly justifies stating that all German cars are crap--I'm not that nearsighted. However, by contrast I have owned nothing but Japanese cars since 1993 and my ownership experiences are very different. I had a problem with my driver-window run channel on my 93 Accord which caused my driver's window to not go up smoothly without guiding it by hand. I had a loose clip on the power steering pump on my 98 Maxima which caused fluid to drip out (dealer tightend the clip and I was on my way in 15 minutes). I had a leaky tranny seal and warranty recall replacement of the front seat belt buckles on my 00 TL. I had a squeaky driver's window, and recall replacement of my wiper motor and power steering hose on my 04 TL. I've had nothing go wrong with my 09 TL so far (knock wood).

So, for the last 17 years, the leaky tranny seal was the only thing I've ever had done to one of my cars that required more than an overnight stay at the dealership. None of the problems ever required the car to be towed in. Everything else was minor and annoying, but little was noteworthy, and none of the recalled parts ever broke, but they were repaired under the recall for preventative measures. Maybe I've been lucky, but I wouldn't hesitate to continue buying Japanese (esp. Honda's) again and again. My friends, my co-worker and my boss, however, would not likely buy German again after their experiences. I'm glad you still enjoy your 11-year old Audi. I guess I can now say I have finally met someone who has a 5+ year old German car who hasn't had many problems with their car and would definitely buy again. You're one in a million!

tmnhs81

I'd like to share something too. I almost bought an Audi A4 before I bought my TL. People told me alot of horror stories about them.

My friend just bought this 1999 BMW 323i. I told him not to buy THAT old BMW, but he didn't listened to me. He liked TL and 2nd gen CL-s, but he was all after a badge. He has already replaced radiator and a headlight on it in 1 month of ownership and still counting.

SebringSilver

I've had multiple Audis and Acuras. My 2005 TL couldn't hold a candle to even my 1994 Legend, in terms of interior fit and finish, let alone either of my NSXs. I suspect it boils down to the fact it was built in the US (sorry).

No point comparing the TL's interior (4G or 3G) to a modern Audi's. The German car is miles ahead in terms of quality.

bmode

I hear ya Sebring, but your statement would be better if it had IMO somewhere in there. It's completely subjective, and your entitled to your opinion. That quality you talk about comes at a price too, so it damn well should be better quality!

PetesTL

I owned 4 BMW's previously and the workmanship is indeed better than Acura's. They are much more solid and stand up to abuse very well. The only thing I don't like about the German cars' interiors is that they look so old and dated compared to the modern look on Acura's and Lexus. Same thing for the Audi's....outstanding fit and finish but the design, to me, looks like something from the 80's.

PGSberg

I find it ironic that someone that didn't buy an Acura, thought it was cheap inside would take the time to register to AZ, write a lengthy, overall negative post.

Maybe I should have taken the time to join Audi/Lexus/Nissan/Infiniti/Jaguar/Mercedes/BMW/Caddy sites and tell thier owners why I didn't like their cars. No- I thought it more productive to join a site with fellow owners so I could learn and share experiences and information to make my ownership as well as hopefully make thiers a more rewarding experience. Silly Me!

SebringSilver

Don't get me wrong, guys. I love Honda/Acura cars. I admire the engineering that goes into them very much. Obviously, there are some things that get shortchanged when they try to cram so many features into a single car at such an attractive price point (I'm referring to the TL). I don't think there are many car companies that can manage that balance between design, engineering, technology, quality, and value quite as well as Honda/Acura.

But at the end of the day, every car out there represents a different degree of compromise. In my opinion, TLs tend to forego some of the interior fit and finish in return for more bang for the buck. The interior looks great, but rattles are a common problem, as is the questionable durability of the leather they use, and the somewhat excessive use of hard plastics.

As I mentioned, I'm not putting the car down. There are lots of things to like about the TL. But the car does have faults, just like any other.

Peace.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

I just don't agree...I love German cars and I'm pretty familiar with them...like I said prior, I seriously considered Audi and BMW before buying my TL-S...the TL-S won out for multiple reasons, but not the point.

I will also say that for every "my buddy/Uncle/boss whomever had an Audi/BMW etc and it was a POS" story, there are just as many (or more) "my buddy/Uncle/boss whomever had an Audi/BMW etc and it was bulletproof" stories...let's not forget our TLs have their share of problems and they're not exactly cheap to fix either....but again, not the point.

What I will say without hyperbole is that the TL interior, both 3G and 4G interior quality of materials and fit/finish is at least on par if not ahead of the BMWs, Audis, Volvos, etc within the similar price point....and I would safely say of even some more expensive cars. Every respectable review of both the 3G and 4G unequivocally states this, so it's pretty much a given. Now whether you think an Audi A4/BMW 3 interior looks better than the TL's...well, that is subjective. But the quality, fit/feel is there...can't deny it.

PetesTL

Every car has rattles at some point. My last 4 BMW's and 2 Lexus had rattles. Also, every car has hard plastics if you look closely enough....some hide them or disguise them well better than others. At the end of the day, if you're going to keep a car for 10 years, I much rather go Japanese than German.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

I second that !! I'm with you Pete.

SebringSilver

Sure, at some stage, any car might start having a rattle here or there. But my '05 TL started rattling at 2,000 km, whereas my '94 Legend never had a single rattle in the 15 years I owned it. Is it because the Legend was built in Japan and the TL was US-made? I don't know. But that both NSXs, which were driven hard, also never had any rattles, well, that makes me wonder.

Anyway, maybe Acura will do better with the 4G in terms of exorcising that problem, but I still don't think that it's a perfect car, like some people seem to think it is.

PetesTL

No such thing as a "perfect" car. Cars are imperfect because they're built by imperfect people.

S2000 Driver

Right on!

I find it curious/odd/amusing that so many people come to this site to bash Acura products.

They truly have no better way to spend their time?

Weird and sad.

Audioholics

I drove a base 4G TL and one with a tech package a week before I bought my 07 TL Type S. I felt the base 4G TL had a very cheap interior, the seats weren't very comfortable and the ride was bouncy. I told the dealer the car basically sucked. He put me in one with the tech package which for some reason drove better but the car was too bulky for my liking. At low speeds it seemed to wabble around turns. At high speeds it felt nicely planted. Then I drove a TL-S and the rest was history. IMO Acura went backwards not just on syling with the 4G but with fit and finish and trying to make the ride too compliant.

Park a G37 next to a 4G TL and IMO there is no comparison that the G is superior in every respect other than cabin volume. How could an 09 car still have a 5 Speed auto when companies like Chevy and Hyundai are all giving standard 6 speed automatics?

The 4G TL only has low HIDs where as the G37 and TL-S have bi-HIDs.

I don't know, the 4G just seems like an overdone, over zinged, but under performing car for its asking price.

Why couldn't they just take the 3G TL-S, make it RWD, add a 6 speed auto option, reduce wind noise and the rattles, and update the syling slightly? One thing they are learning now is you don't drastically change the styling or drive characteristics of your volume car which until now the TL has been for them for the last 4 years or so.

Colin

Probably because that would be a whole new car on a platform that doesn't exist. The costs of such a platform would have to amortized over many cars to be profitable and they're not there now. The rumored RWD platform for the new RL would eventually be the basis for the next gen TL.

Then you'd have people complaining about the styling. Things like "wow after 5 years they should have updated the look more' or "this is supposed to be an all new car, all they did was update the styling of the 3G a little bit"

Point is you can't please everybody.

KeithL

The BAse Tech is as you described for ride, the SH-AWD is a better ride than the 3G Type-s (I had two 08 Type-S), it is as firm or former, yet way less jolty and more compliant. Yes I agree the 4G is a little homly looking, but the ride and interior are awesome. I miss my 3G until I take my 4G out for a ride. The G37 is a far sexy car IMO, but it is more snug inside and the NAV and sound system are not even in the same league as a Genesis let alone the 4G TL. There are defeinetly a few things I don't liek about the 4G and styling is top of the list, but the ride, drive and technology (except the giant step backward on the Bluetooth) are great and a step forward over the 3G. Do I wish they coudl have made the 4G the same size as a 3G and more an evolutionary style, YES, I think it would have weathered the economy better right now as this styling is too polarizing, but it grown on me more every day. Will I ever love my 4G like I did my 3G, probably not, and surely not from the outside, but from the inside it is a different story.

jmaikamon

I am a simple person who believes in what I can see and feel. I was in Germany and went with a friend from Wiesbaden to Frankfurt to pick up her brand new 2002 BMW 325i in November 2002. We deployed to Iraq four months later leaving her car parked next to my 1999 Honda Accord V6 Coupe in a military lot. We returned six months later and as we walked up to both cars we noticed that the rubber seal around the driver window was hanging down allowing rain to get in the car. Then, it would NOT start, battery dead. The military had folks on hand to jump the cars. I started my car (old honda) and jumped her new car. We took her car back to the dealership and they replaced the seal. It happened again on the other side.
Don't get me wrong I am not criticizing German automakers because they are engineering geniuses BUT the idea that a dollar for dollar comparison with Acura would let Audi be "far ahead" is ludicrous.

SebringSilver

If only more people were mature enough to accept that as fact, that would be great. What's odd is whenever someone says anything untoward about an Acura (especially the TL), even though it's based on actual ownership experience, it's as though he's committed an act of sacrilege. Acuras are, by and large, pretty decent cars, and there are plenty of reasons to like them. But I think some of the owners on this forum should have a look at the threads in the 3G forum to see just how many problems there have been with recent TLs.

As I've said before, I have nothing against Acura. I've owned more of them than most of you here. But I'm realistic enough to admit where their strengths are, and also where their weaknesses are.

Hope that doesn't offend anyone.

SebringSilver

I'm not sure how your experience in going with a friend to pick up a BMW has any relevance to the discussion about the interior fit and finish attributes of Audis and Acuras, but I would tend to agree if someone were to say that BMW interiors also leave a lot to be desired.

SSFTSX

You are implying that some how Reliability is measure of Premium brand which is not . In Europe alot of things are hand made and use industrial robots came way latter & underutilitzed than Japanese. Also the concept of total quality managment was not high in priority. Even korean/Chinese built automobiles can better quality than hand made British cars. What Germans have done it they bought most of Luxury makers in Europe including RR/Bentley and infused Germanic influence in design and engineering. They may not have 100% reliability in all parts of operations but there design/materials/technology exhibit Premium brand. The cost of developing new 4cylinder engine may be cheaper in Japan but cost of developing V12/V16 are cheaper and better in Germany because every country has developed level of skill development.

You can see from British magazine. Quality and Reliability are separate words.and they are more concerned with Quality. The car can get 5 star rating without concern to reliability.
Only a Value brand put more emphasis on Reliability to sell cars.

crxb

has anyone else noticed these threads all end up sounding the same?

KeithL

I have owned FOUR 3G Acura TLs and while I only owned them fro a year or 2 they built very well. Acura/Honda is one of the best built vehicles ont he road, they last and last. Sure has Acura had issues, yes, there are htousands of parts in these cars so there is no perfect. At the end of the day if you factor out Honda/Acura's occasional tranny design flaws their cars are overall super reliable, sure they screw up thinsg like interior fit and finish things that casue squeaks and rattles and yes Honda still can't figure out how to hang a bumper with decent alignment, but do those thinsg prevent the car from doing it main misson, to start reliably and get you from one place to another? Trust me I am very frustrated with the squeaks and rattle sin Acura's and the stupid cosmetic flaws from poor fit and finish, but I know plenty of people with Honda/Acura producst for years and over 100K miles and they all start and run reliably as they did day one. I would put a Honda/Acura up against any make for the long haul and bet that the Honda/Acura holds up better and is more relaible with less effort. I'm not slamming anyone here, just stating plenty of peopel take shots at Honda/Acura for the wrong reasons.

DasTeknoViking

I do agree that the 04 TLs interior is pretty much a disaster compared to the 2nd gen TL. I wouldn't dare comparing it to a Legend, I have owned 3 of those great cars and none of them ever rattled, and interior wore excellent. I had a 91 BASE with cloth seats that felt supple and luxurious, the leather in my 94 LS sedan (swapped with a RL motor for more power and it was cheaper) was and still is excellent. Yet the leather in the TSX, TLs is a complete joke. I hope that the 4G TL uses better materials because 100K mile 3G TLs I see look worse than my 340K mile Vigor.

This said my R32 has leather, I condition it often and 100K miles later... no problems with anything. I have had a bad thermostat that caused the check engine light to come on, and both front wheel bearings went out thanks to Chicago pot holes taking out the wheels and bearings. Car sees a ton of race track, and its maintained beyond VWs recommended services. I get a TON of shit from all my fellow cooworkers for driving a VW, but needless to say.... Acura doesn't build cars no more, they are appliances.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

LOL...Yup, wasn't my intention though.

Anyways, as the OP, I just wanted to say that I was mightily impressed with the 4G after my test drive. A lot of things impressed me that I wasn't expecting. Not saying that the car is perfect, or that that it's interior is the pinnacle of design and/or quality of materials...but I think that it is one of the best in its segment.

At the end of the day, if I were in the market, the 4G would be on my short list.

The End

Colin

It's never the end

csmeance

it was I who said the 4G felt cheap, and it does. Sadly, acura has been doing a really shitty job with interiors lately and it shows. Most of the great ones have been 2007 back. the 99-03 TL was nice, easy to use and organized. As well it felt quality. The TL 04-06 was great, and the update for 07-08 was nice, the MDX was nice (01-08) and the RL (05 to present) was nice too. The TSX's update was also pretty nice as well. The RDX in my opinion was the only odd one. After that the 09 TL interior isn't that great, the TSX's isn't all that much better. It's kinda sad to see such a good brand go in the wrong direction...

KeithL

[QUOTE=DasTeknoViking;10492743]I loved the styling of the 3G TL, the leather was better than some, but not quite as supple. I loved the 3G interor stlying over the 4G.

The 4G leather is light years better than the 3G, I woudl put it on par with probaly Lexus leather which is traditionally buttery soft and supple. It appers to be a higher grade than Infinit, which I thought was a better grade than the 3G. The dash material is very nice, soft to the touch, possibly a little too textured for me, but very nice feel.