Ehibb034

Hello! I wanted to share my thoughts on my recent ownership of the tl to get input and hopefully help prospective buyers. I got into a 2013 tl tech pack relatively quick bc I totaled my 2012 Hyundai Azera Tech Package and needed a car. Honestly i would have purchased another azera, but couldnt find a low mileage example with the same options. I have always liked the 4g TL in terms of looks and landed on a 2013 TL with 16k miles in black which i negotiated to 18.9k at rt 22 toyota in nj. I got a killer deal since most in my state of pa were selling for around 21.5k.
Here is what I have come to like. The look of the car is just awesome in my opinion. I like the sharp lines quite a bit. The ride and handling are great, and the engine has plenty of go for how i drive. The sound system (els) is also pretty nice. I also enjoy owning an acura and i like the reliability/maintenance costs/insurance costs associated with that decision. I feel like for the price i paid i got alot of car. However, if I had to spend a penny more than i did, I would not be so pleased.
Onto my criticisms. They are all based around this one thought...this is not a luxury car. I even think that labeling it a premium car (besides the acura badge) is a stretch. The car is just way far behind in terms of feature content and luxury features. Its easy to tell that this car was near a refresh and somewhat neglected by the brand. I have owned the azera, a vw cc executive, and a ford fusion before this car that I believe are leaps and bounds above the TL in terms of feature content and neither one of those holds a luxury title. The interior really is no better than any top trim level vehicle like an altima, fusion, impala, azera, or cc. In many cases those cars are nicer. There are many things that the car is missing that really should be on a lux car. Panorama sun roof, rear sun shade, led lighting (ive seen all the posts here about the headlights), three blink turn signal, and rain sensing wipers are all pretty much included on most cars even striving for premium status. The 17 inch wheels also have the personality of a wet rag. Most competitors will do 19s or 20s for the same price. The sound system is good but two speakers short of being great like the 14 speaker systems in the azera and lincoln mkz. I feel like for the price of this car new, it was a total non-value. It defintely was not a priority for acura for the last two years and it becomes obvious once youve been in it for a while. To any prospective buyer, there are many options in the 21k used range that will give you premium and lux content that this just cant touch.
so in conclusion, I feel its a very slick looking car and I like owning the acura badge. I feel like for the sub 19k I paid for a car with less than 17k miles on it easily justifies the shortcomings and enables me to truly enjoy the car. I just would not feel the same way if i had to pay more for it. I look forward to tinting the windows and maybe some other upgrades like wheels.
Hope this helps!

Lee C

You lost me at Impala

Ehibb034

The current gen impala engine, fwd layout, and premium aspirations is what im referring to. I dont like the car personally but in terms of price and performance i think a case can be made that it competes

omgitsspooky

I hope you're comparing these models within the same time frame as when the 4G TL came out because I believe when this car came out, it did have a lot of the latest tech features.

solotallboy

I definitely have to partially agree with Ehibb034 on his analysis. The Acura TL is not a luxury, but I would say for sure that it's premium. I currently own a 2010 TL (for about 6 months) and this cannot compare to other Lexus and BMW that I have owned. The biggest thing going for the acura brand is great reliability and low cost of ownership which is what brought me back to the brand (previously owned a CL). But in terms of comfort, the TL is lacking, in terms of features, the TL is lacking, in terms of cabin noise, the TL is louder, and also to factor is the craftsmanship is also not as good. For the most part, the overall car feels like it needed to be torqued just a few more pounds. I've had to tighten the rear-view mirror, tighten the seats and overall car feels a little loose. I plan to keep for a long time to hand down to my sons so will see how it holds up.

Ehibb034

To say that this car has the latest tech features is somewhat absurd. There aren't even front or rear parking sensors for cripe's sake! The back up camera doesn't have trajectory??? On a 38k car, this is pretty silly. Just using a fusion as an example, from 2013. Adaptive cruise control, lane keep assist, and self parallel parking. The car is the farthest thing from tech savvy. I think dynamically, the car is great. It certainly is a driver's car, and buy it used for that reason. If you think this car is even close to premium, buy something else. I think if you can snag a low mileage used one, this becomes a good value, I just don't see what the draw was when it was new.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Your vehicle model was sold starting in 2009 which means development happened long before then.

You also purchased a base FWD model from the sounds of it so of course you didn't get tech goodies.

The Acura TLX has all of those things you've mentioned (parking assist though, not automated AFAIK)

Ehibb034

I have the tech package. Saying a car is designed in 2009 so that gives it a pass to not upgrade the tech for 4 years....not in agreeance.

wreak

OP you're going to get some backlash for this post but I'm a 2012 TL owner and I agree with most of what you're saying. The TL is a nice package but it's far from the luxury sport sedan Acura tried to frame it as. Acura really needs to drop their "Advance" slogan. The only thing they have going for themselves now is SH-AWD, they did have the cool jewel-eye headlights until they started strapping them to Honda Accords. It seems like anytime they get something right they just filter it down to the Honda's which dilutes just about everything the brand has gotten right.

At the end of the day the TL isn't much more than a top of the line Accord, what's even more sad? The 2014 TL didn't even come as nicely equipped as the 2014 Honda Accord did. Sad Acura...sad.

Ehibb034

Wreak, i know this wouldnt be a popular position, but i appreciate the support! I dont dislike the car, i think it drives and handles excellent. I like the fact that i have an acura in my driveway. The purpose really was to help people make a buying decision. I really think that some people may think its a luxury car when they go to buy, but it isnt really even premium. I beleive that for the ultra low mileage i got and the price i paid, its an excellent value and i would encourage anyone to purchase under similar conditions. I would not suggest paying more than 20k for the car if you want a luxury or premium vehicle...it is just in the stoneages with tech and refinement compared to anything else premium or luxury in the segment.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

That's pretty much how it always works though.

You may get minor refreshes on certain things but major components typically don't get refreshed within a model year. Acura isn't going to completely retool the vehicle to add lane keep assist in 2013 when it wasn't present in 09-12. They waited until the new model (TLX) was designed/released and implemented it there.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

FWIW, if you're comparing a FWD TLX (or TL) to an Accord the Honda is the no-brainer for purchase.

The Accord has significantly more technology in it than the TL/TLX and is cheaper.

That said, you miss out on SH-AWD which is one of the (if not the) selling points of the Acura brand.

Ehibb034

Muffin man. I get that significant upgrades come with new redesigns mostly....but really they couldnt put in parking sensors, one click turn signals, both side mirrors being able to angle down on back up or trajectory lines on the camera???? Its just really lazy is how i feel best to describe it.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Oh, I agree that I would love to have had more tech goodies in the car.

Parking sensors were an option IIRC for the 4G TL and both side mirrors do angle downwards depending on what you have the mirror switch set to.

The camera lines would have been nice as well - most everything you've mentioned though is present in the TLX.

Just looked them up, here are the sensors:

http://estore.honda.com/acura/access...TL00013018&dl=

Ehibb034

I will try out the mirrors. I read in the manual that only one could go down...learned something new. But how are parking sensors not standard equipment on a 40k car? Granted its not as bad as some entry level lux cars. I also tried out a bmw 3 series that had fake leather, no push button start and no lumbar support. I think it really just shows that some people will forego almost everything in order to get a lux badge. I was so disgusted that a rental ford fiesta had more tech than a freaking bmw that i laughed and walked away after about five mins in the car.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

I'm 99.99% sure if you cut the mirror switch to either direction that mirror will dip. I actually miss that on my '17 Golf R - you can program it but for some reason they disabled it for the US market...

I partially believe Honda is the guinea pig when it comes to the new technology to see how the market receives it and if people will pay money for the parts and then Acura benefits from those findings down the road. So the Accord has the gizmos and gadgets without the AWD platform and the Acura is the more proven/reliable technology.

wreak

I can 100% confirm that if you put the mirror switch to the driver or passenger side the corresponding mirror will tilt. If you leave it in the middle neither will tilt.

hadokenuh

I agree the TL is not a luxury car. Near-lux at best. But only because the ride is not as compliant (smooth and quiet) as other luxury car in its class.

I think for its generation (2009-2014), the contents and features are quite good and up to par with any other luxury makers.

Ehibb034

Here is the 41k 2013 audi prestige specs. The tl advance package was 39.5k. So 1500 dollar difference. These are luxury features for the class. Why again would anyone buy the TL New is my point. From audi.....
"The Prestige goes to town with adaptive xenon headlamps that include LED running lights, a blind-spot warning system, keyless entry with push-button ignition, rear parking sensors, MMI Plus with navigation and a console-mounted joystick knob and a 14-speaker, 505-watt Bang & Olufsen audio system"

solotallboy

Why? Three words - Reliability, Reliability, Reliability?? Having previously owned two BMWs and an Audi....they are a pain to deal with.

yzmuddereffer

Before I wade into this, I agree with OP that the TL isn't "luxury," at least in the way the vast majority would define it.

But I also bought a 2013 TL a couple weeks ago, and bring a little different perspective.

To me, the TL is the much better car in a way that other models with these fancy bells and whistles could never match.

In things I buy, I look for functional design. This means precise purpose, quality build, reliability, balance in execution and performance-first engineering .

Precise purpose. I want individual pieces to do one thing and do it well and simply, whether this is steering, braking, buttons, etc.

Quality build. Controls should be solid and consistent in operation and always deliver as expected. Refinement is everywhere.

Reliability. Stuff shouldn't break. Parts should be strong.

Balance in execution. The quality, reliability and performance should not be out of whack across individual functions (driving performance) or parts (seats vs dash, etc.).

Performance-first engineering. I want things where they are and designed how they are because they make the car perform better, not because they project a certain image.

What does not matter to me is the tech that is described here as "luxury," I'm not concerned at all with stylistic execution (e.g., gimmicky turn signals... just f**king blink, ok?), operational crutches (parking assist... gimme a break!) or features that interfere with the driving process (adaptive cruise control...gtfo... sounds like something my aunt would dig...lol).

Seriously, though... I hope none of those comments offended anyone. I absolutely get why people want tech in their cars. I understand why some people will pay a premium for image and luxury. And while I think it's lame personally, I accept the fact that more people than not would rather look cool than be cool (not that I'm cool...). I know I'm in the minority when I say I would take a base model TL over a Tech, all else equal.

When I examine the interior of my base TL, I don't think there is one control -- not one single control or function -- that I can point to and say it was put there because some guy in marketing told a Honda engineer that research shows millennials will want to take selfies with it and post it to social media...

And all-out performance isn't the point. Like most have, I compared the TL to G37s. The G37 pretty much stomps on the TL with the G's extra ponies and RWD. However, the Infiniti style is a bit much for my taste and the quality execution just wasn't there in the details.

What is the point is crisp execution. I think the TL handles excellently for a FWD vehicle, and the power provided by the admittedly dated, naturally aspirated V6 is exceptional.

Of course this car is not perfect! After an exciting drive or two, where do I want more? Suspension, and in the low- to mid-range power delivery. I think I will get it in the aftermarket.

Please don't misunderstand me. Numerous BMWs, MBs and Lexus GS models (and many others) all make brilliant vehicles that achieve exceptional levels of function with luxurious environments, and while I would never try to argue that the TL serves up the same in both luxury and performance categories, the functional balance the TL achieves and the value it delivers -- that is, what you get for your money -- is world class.

It's a great car.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ You make some excellent points. I can't tell you how many Hyundai/Kia cars I've driven that are loaded with "luxury" tech crap but that have dead steering, mushy brakes, non-linear feel to the gas pedal and crappy feeling controls. Hondas/Acuras are engineered to feel just right in the controls and to handle and drive with precision. Some may not care about those things and value cameras and radars and blinking lights, etc. more. That's OK, but that's not what I value when I buy a car.

ABDomega

Brock?

hadokenuh

LOL I rememeber that dude ..

GhostTL09

iTrader: (1)

yeah bro, I wouldn't buy Audi over Honda/Acura brand based on cost of ownership and reliability. I understand status for certain brands but not at the expense of being car poor.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

The TL has:

- Xenon headlights
- Blindspot Monitoring
- Keyless entry
- Keyless start
- Navigation with ELS Audio (10 speaker and scores really well, https://www.edmunds.com/car-technolo...sound-off.html )

The only thing not included between the two is the rear parking sensors which were a ~$400 option

LostProphet

Also don't forget one of my favorite features in the Advance package... ventilated front seats.

yzmuddereffer

lol you said it much more succinctly than I did!

The only other thing I would add is this execution of functional design is what improves the higher you go up the line, from Civic to Accord to Acura, etc. It's not necessarily the flashy tech that gets better, but the performance and refinement of the vehicle. Not everyone is wired to appreciate that -- or even notice it, really. Sure, some notice and don't care. An EX-L Accord might match or even exceed a base TL in many features, but the interior quality isn't on the same level, at least by my measure. Keeping the discussion on Hondas, it's the same with my wife's Pilot EX-L. On paper, it matches or surpasses the TL, but not in fit and finish by any stretch.

simplemonk

I am a crazy psychologist who has on 2 occasions been in the car business; ergo, not only a nut, but also a car nut. At different times I sold VW/BMW and Acura. I have owned Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, VW, Honda and now Acura. My thoughts:

• of the bunch, the Honda/Acura are far more reliable and have a vastly lower cost of ownership
• on a corporate level, Honda/Acura spend far more on "Good Will" (non-warranty) repairs than the others combined.
• national characteristics produce different results. Both cultures value precision but in different ways and they attain it in different ways
• Soichiro (SP?) Honda believed that happy workers built better cars
• The Germans believe that intolerance for bad cars produces good cars
• (This a major sticking point); In keeping with the second point, when there is a problem, Honda/Acura adopts an attitude of "Fix the Problem, not the blame", while some of the Germans (most especially BMW) are infamous for blaming the customer
• in the days of the ill fated Thermal Reactors which routinely cracked the heads of M30 engines BMW had to be dragged into court on a class action suit and ordered to make good on the problem all the while refusing to admit fault. The arrogant bastards insisted that stupid Americans simply did not know how to properly drive their cars and came up with bizarre suggestions such as shutting down the air conditioners in heavy traffic and high temperatures.-DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
• Mr. Honda was a humble man, while the German CEO's are as arrogant as it gets.
• Do I love German -cars? WITHOUT A DOUBT!!
• I believe my Porsche Cayman S was the GREATEST car I ever owned
• I believe my 2014 TL SH AWD is the BEST car I ever owned

yzmuddereffer

Despite my appreciation for this TL and what I contend is an objective observation of Honda's class-leading execution of functional design, I don't consider myself a blind fan by any means.

But I am a fan of any CEO who projects this kind of attitude...



and wore the same white jumpsuit as his factory line workers on a daily basis...