dwest1023

A friend of mine just bought a BMW 335i and ask, if I wanted to take a spin. Of course I accepted with a smile. Its been awhile since I have driven a BMW(2006), so I was eager to see how it compared to my 2009 TL. I was impressed with the tech, as it was head a shoulder over my TL tech. It had heads up display, a button to change how the tranny shifts and handled. The motor cuts off when you stop, and restarts when you take your foot off the brake. This can be disabled if you want. It had Rear seat and steering wheel heat. These are just a few of the tech the BMW has that are not available on our TL's.

I was surprised how sorry the audio system sounded compared to my ELS. Im an old school audiophile and I pay lots of attention to the sound system in a car.
The TL was hands down better,no contest. Bass was boomy and strained almost to the point of being unlistenable to my ears. The sound was tinny. Could have been that the bass and treble had been turned up all the way.The BMW's engine was not as smooth, and silky like the TL. Many of you complain of the engine breaking in the TL but it is terrible in the BMW. I felt a lot of jerking and gear hunting slowing down. I also was not fond of the power delivery in the bimmer. There seemed to be a few dips in the power band whereas the TL feels a lot more linear. The big shocker for me was the handling. The bimmer suspension did not seem to be as tight as my TL,even in sport mode. Comfort was just plain bouncy. I thought handling was hallmark of a BMW??

As you can tell I was not impressed at all with the BMW. Maybe the 5 series would be a better comparison? The test drive made me appreciate my TL even more. I was really surprised. Oh, the bimmer did have a nice exhaust note at idle :-)

weather

Interesting post and glad to see that I am not alone in thinking that despite the shortfall of the TL, it is still an excellent vehicle. Given the price point, this makes it even sweeter!

I think the 2014 TLX will be very nice if the 2013 Accord is any indication. I just saw one in person and it is a nice ride.

Audi is still in the back of my mind and once the TLX comes out, I'll see whether or not Audi or Acura will be in my driveway

Bearcat94

Most (all?) of these are quite expensive options on the BMW. Any idea what this car stickered at?

sham

The 335i is a step down from their M3. Thus, it's a much sportier car than our TL and it will come with quite a few expensive options like Bearcat has suggested. But, I see your point: which is that these are not even options on the TL.

dwest1023

This was some kind of lease, but I believe the retail was around 49K. Not worth it for my money. The TL is WAY better value, bar none. We ain't got all the bells and whistles, but the TL is a all around excellent car. Now, If we can get some of that tech.....

dwest1023

I drove all the audi's back in 2006 when I came into a lot of money. At the time the RL was king for me. Audi was ok, but again the RL was just all around better IMO. I have not driven any of the newer Audi's as yet. I am afraid of the German engineering when the warranty is up.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

The new 5 is more on par with the TL and ahead in many ways. The 3 series seems to be more aimed at the utilitarian crowd that just wants the hood ornament. No disrespect to the M3 of course.

saturno_v

I do not have any experience with the new 3 Series yet...but from what I heard from the "purists" is not longer as focused of a sport sedan as it used to be.....

It is hard to compare the technolgy of a car that just did come out with one that is almost 4 years old...when the 4G TL was introduced its tech was pretty impressive at that time.


General comparison between the TL and the 3 Series...again I do not have yet "seat time" in the new F30 3 Series but the main reason the E90 was compared to the TL was the price....a more appropriate comparison to be made is between the TL and the 5 Series in my opinion (and not only mine)...but we did discuss about this countless times.....

dwest1023

I guess because of what the 3 series cost, with the bells and whistles, you tend to see the TL in the 3 class. I will have to go back and read the 5 series review. I did drive a 2006 5 series turbo, and other then the raw power, I preferred the 2006 RL. I have never driven an M series BMW. Im sure it might be more to my liking. Still I find it amazing you have to go up to the 5 series BMW to do a fair comparison with the TL

winstrolvtec

The tech difference mostly comes down to new gen vs one that is on it's last year, although the last 3 series offered a few things the TL did not (and vice versa) but for the most part they were highly comparable in that regard. If the new Accord is any indication of what we can expect to see as a baseline in the next TL, then I don't think anyone would be overly disappointed compared to a 3.

Plus the fact that the TL lines up better with the 3 in terms of price than most BMW models (although the 3 can often exceed the TL to the point where you can easily question that as much as comparing it to other BMW models) and that is why they are often considered to be of the same "class", however they are not of the same "category", where the TL and the 5 series are.

Despite always having the dynamics of RWD, more balanced weight distribution and tight steering in the past, the 3 has hardly been an overly amazing handling vehicle for it's category, it's been excellent and tops in terms of the category but not anything that stood above it, excluding the M of course. It's been a product of over hype and false perception, IMO. Sportiest (or one of the) of a particular group doesn't always mean the most capable, although most correlate the two because feel, sensation, and perception are all they usually have to form that basis.

Going back even 2 generations, I have also found the suspension to be very bouncy and not as tight as the TL even with sport packages but some people prefer to have a less intrusive suspension with firmer setting elsewhere instead, where the TL is set more to the opposite. To be fair, a lot of that is to overcompensate for the FWD build of the TL, not necessarily yielding many handling advantages in comparison but it does manifest as extraordinary handling in the SH.

docboy

Agreed. The 4G TL is definitely a solid and well engineered vehicle, albeit short on a few fancy tech gadgetry and a few quirks here and there.

Acura er Cartalk naysayers will collectively hold up their noses high proclaiming German superiority and belittling the 4G's polarizing design ad nauseum. Those of us who actually own a 4G can appreciate its engineering and execution in a mid sized sedan.

On a related note, I recently had a ride in my friend's 2010 335xi (my first choice before its HPFP issues scared me off). Hohum interior design and tight interior hip/leg/head room. He likes the exterior design and steering, but he wasn't too keen of its awd performance in the snow, its numerous trips to the stealership/poor reliability, and expensive maintenance (ie. run flat tires). He intends on a getting an extended warranty when the initial warranty ends; if he can't get an extended warranty he was talking about going back to an Infiniti.

Not to say the 335 is not a nice vehicle, the consensus is that it's a performance benchmark. It's just not a value buy compared to the TL, IMHO.

Edward'TLS

Unfortunate for Acura but fortunate for Acura buyers, this is what it is.

The TL is from a Tier-2 auto brand, whereas the 3-series is from a Tier-1 auto brand. Therefore, it is a given that the TL is way better value than the much smaller sized 3-series premium sedan.

Similarly, when an economy brand (e.g., Hyundai) is pitched against a Tier-2 brand (e.g., Acura), the giant V8 Genesis also becomes better value than the smaller-sized TL too.

py0413

when the new TL(X) comes out in 2014/2015, it will probably have all that techs with a $10000 less price tag compare to a F30 335i. I like BMWs and if I was to own only a car, I would probably go with a 335i or 328i rather than my TL. After owning a 1st yr BMW model (08 M3), I now would wait 1 or 2 years before making a move on the current model. They will have quite a bit of bugs and take time to solve them properly. Other than that, they make fantastic driver's car even with the F30 not feeling as nimble as the previous 3er.

mgookool1

Coming from an older BMW (545i), My 12' TL tech really didn't "wow" me at first. BMW's do drive and handle amazingly well, and extremely quiet on the inside. I really just got tired of ALWAYS having to "FIX" something in it. Maintainence wasn't too bad as I did most of it myself, but always having to pay the stealership for "upgrades to software" and "reprogramming of modules" when they had to be replaced became unbareable and wallet breaking! The new BMW's may be ahead of our TL in the tech dept but the TL will definately last longer in the "trouble-free" dept and we will get to spend more time enjoying our ride and money remaining in our pockets!

After reading the forums for a while I see members complaining about how much trouble the new TL gives, but in comparison to a BMW,Merc,Audi...the TL doesn't even come close...A valvebody in my 545i was 5k to replace at the dealer, even if you DIY, it will still have to go to them to "reprogram"; Sunroof drains clogging and flodding the interior and trunk area frying critical electrical components causing $$$$ in repair costs'. Down the road when the TL is out of warranty, the average person can still have it repaired without breaking the wallet.

I'm not bashing on the german brand autos, I loved my 545, fantastic car and was always a pleasure to drive...THE FEW TIMES I WAS ABLE TO DRIVE IT...Heads-up display, voice control, red light cam & live traffic updates and no subscription to xm, adaptive bi-xenon headlamps, just a few features given up but well worth it for someting more reliable. This is just my opinion. They aren't good cars to own out of warranty, and even when it is under warranty, you find yourself at the dealership having something repaired than most Acura owners.

012TL-GLM

Acura > BMW Reliability
BMW > Acura Fun Factor

The 3 series is a fantastic car to drive, NOT to be a passenger in. Its just too damn small. The 5 series is too damn expensive for what you get in comparison to a TL, and not nearly as comfy (V6 version mind you).

BMW has no reason to improve quality/dependability/reliability because the majority of sales are leases. They're keeping mechanics happy worldwide

dwest1023

The Kia Optima sport I drove was more fantastic then the BMW 3 series. Not being funny, I was really impressed with the handling and tech for the money. The car felt really solid and tight. Engine was VERY responsive. If I had to step down from Acura I would definitely consider it.

winstrolvtec

This has always been an excellent point and while true, there is a diference still. A comparable TL and Genesis at least price the same, whereas a comparable 3 series adds another $10k at the least, $8k for the 328, give or take.

The concept works to scale until you reach the porposed Tier 1 vehicle. So under that concept the differences would be cleanly justified and would make much better sense if it was priced and equipped similarly but that isn't the case.

012TL-GLM

Kia is moving up, however you won't find it nearly as solid and tight after even a few thousand miles. Several of my co-workers have been wooed by Hyundai/Kia and all are disappointed within a short amount of time

Mr Marco

Out of the many opinions voiced here on AZ, yours, I trust.

Wow, everyone and Acura needs to take a lesson from the past. Remember when the American truck guys were saying,
"Toyota? I ain't worried about them." -2002

5 years later-

"Toyota holds the number one spot for U.S. auto and truck sales." -2007

saturno_v

Good point...I just priced the Genesis 3.8 fully loaded (Prem Package + Tech Package) at about 44K....close in price to a fully loaded TL SH-AWD....you get a bit more power and RWD layout but no AWD.....overall it's a wash...

Same thing for the Azera.....fully loaded tops at about 38K, comparable to a fully loaded FWD TL

Hyundai is still the better buy, marginally, on value compared to Acura but we are far away from the premium price gap imposed by BMW.....48K for a stripper 4 banger 240 HP RWD 528...thanks but no thanks....still they do not have problem selling a lot of cars...what can I say, good for them....

kc1953

Are you sure this was 335i and not a 328i? The 6 cylinder in the 335i delivers torque at very low RPM and across a wide RPM range, and is generally a very smooth engine and transmission combination. Also, the standard sound system does suck, but for another 900 you can get the premium hi fi which is a bit more on par with the TL ELS system. Size wise, the TL is about the same size and weight of a 535i, but the 5 series has a lot more luxury, is smoother, has more options, and fully loaded is about $20k or more expensive than a TL sh-awd advance.

boss2k

I have not driven the new 335 but mine handles like a dream and no comparison with a TL , both are different cars and not necessarily apples to apples comparison and i think its unfair to compare them.

23109VC

the 335 and TL are similar yet different.

if you race them, a 335i will outrun a TL. you can chip a 335i and it woudl demolish the TL and many many real sports cars.. a 335i can be FAST FAST FAST. just youtube videos of "juicebox" equipped 335i by searhing for "jb3" or "jb4" and 335i.. they fly.

downside to the BMW is reliability, cost of maintenance, and bang for the buck. you will get MORE for your money with the TL.. period. apples to apples on features.. the TL is a better value.

long term ownership.. a TL will be more reliable and cost less to fix. anyone who says otherwise is nuts. I have owned a used german car.. every trip to the "stealer" or even an independent mechanic will drain your bankk account..

if money is not an object. id' rather have a 335 or 535..or heck an M3 or M5 sedan... and forget about repairs.just lease a new one and then reeturn it when the lease runs out.. BUT on a budget..when you care about what you are paying.. the TL is more bang for the buck.

also. the TL is a much larger car. it's kind of a 335i competitor PRICE wise but a 535 competitor SIZE wise... i have three kids.. a 335 is OUT because they will be way to jammed up in the back seat.. they woudl fit.. but any long trip woudl be an unpleasant expereince. in the back of a TL they all fit. they fit better in our MDX which is even larger..but the TL doubles as a solid family car we can take on long trips with the whole family. a 335i would not.

to get a 535 to be size wise the same.. and get all the same features.. would mean I am spending $10k+ or more extra to get the same features. albeit it woudl be a better car, faster car.. it woudl just cost more.

i just got m y TL and considered a lot of other rides. the turbo 335/535 was high on my list of "wants'.. but low on the list when I factored what I needed and bang for the buck.

YMMV.. and what you wnat to pay / willing to pay will greatly affect how everyone views this issue...

bottom line the yare all good cars... just different values for different needs.

dwest1023

It WAS a 335I with the Six. Thanks for the update on the audio option, I was not aware of this. I was really shocked at how bad the audio system sounded(comparing high-end cars) It was not the worse I had ever heard, but for the BMW name, I would have thought the sound would have been better. It certainly was not match for the ELS in the Acura. I would think the 5 series would be a lot nicer car. Way out of the price range I would want to spend though.

dwest1023

My famous quote to my friend," buy Japanese, German lease"

BEAR-AvHistory

The truck guys were right Ford F series trucks outsell Toyota Tacoma & Tundra combined by a 2+ to 1 margin.

saturno_v

I agree almost entirely with your post...the 335 is faster than a TL SH-AWD (especially on a straight line), period.


....but not sure the 535 is quicker than a TL SH-AWD....from a sport sedan point of view I would argue that the TL is the better buy because I can get a real manual gearbox with a more sophisticated AWD system (Torque Vectoring) where with the 535 xDrive is available only with the slushbox.


If money is not an option, for a sedan I would definitely aim higher than a 535.......550i, M56, M5, XF, etc....

Heck with 46k you can get a fully loaded 430 HP Genesis 5.0 Spec-R, tried personally and that big V8 is one of the smoothest big bore I ever tried....

saturno_v

You should drive a manual SH-AWD before making that broad general statement...

jspagna1

^^^ Bingo! You are absolutely correct. When shopping for a new car we also looked at the 335i and imo the car was just too small and uncomfortable. So it just didn't compare with the TL or the Maxima for that matter.
The 5 Series maybe a different story, but the TL & Maxima are a much better bang for the buck. And then you have the reliability and maintenance costs issue with the German cars.

Edward'TLS

Excellent advice.

boss2k

are you saying it handles better and faster than a 335 ? Strongly doubt it. I have a 335 coupe and no way a 4 door sedan in that category can handle better than it specially a TL.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Interesting. An AWD TL sedan pitched against a RWD 335i sedan.

But just in case if the 2WD 335i sedan is not up to the task, there's always the 335i x-drive to finish up the job.

Tonyware

Best quote I read all week!

saturno_v

On a test done in 2010 where several auto magazines participated on a track the TL SH-AWD was faster than both 335 sedan, RWD and the xDrive.....so you can reach your own conclusions...

Again, drive a manual TL SH-AWD and report back.....

Read above..in that test the TL SH-AWD outpaced both...RWD and AWD....

JM2010 SH-AWD

Those tests were set up to pit the best handling, comparable MT sedans from several manufacturers against the TL AWD (with 6MT). The TL had the fastest lap times against the 335i, 335ix, G, and a couple of others. And it wasn't very close.

Automobile tested the TL AWD 6MT against the S4 and the difference around a course that favored the higher top speed S4 was about .2 seconds/lap. The TL was faster than the S4 in nearly every turn.

Those that doubt the competitiveness of the TL AWD (at least in 6MT form) are just not well-informed.

012TL-GLM

Correct, and it doesn't have to be a manual - the AWD 6spd auto is a beast in its own right, and when driven properly in S mode will come awfully close to the numbers put up by the manual, and will do so more consistantly

boss2k

So what is the 0-60 time for TL SH AWD manual or auto. can you send the link for those tests, would like to read it.

Did it beat a 335 coupe , i guess 335 coupe is slightly faster than a sedan

Glashub

As a former owner of 3 rattling Acura TL's in a row and as a big Acura fan nonetheless, I am amazed at how solid and quiet my Genny 4.6 is after 16 months.

That V-8 and 8 speed make for an incredbly fast and smooth accelerating monster.

It was released in 2009 and the tech on it so far out-paces the tech on the 4G, it's a little embarrasing. Got a 2012 in 2011 for under 40k.

A good deal that's not too bad on the eyes either.

saturno_v

Or they never driven one....

saturno_v

In pure acceleration the 335 sedan is faster..no doubt...depending on the magazine, the manual TL SH-AWD clocked between 5,2 and 5,6 on the 0-60...

Couple of link about the 335-TL track test comparison...

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...our-own-page-2

http://www.insideline.com/acura/tl/2...rst-drive.html