KeithL

OK so I have a 3G Type-S thatI love and I have really not cared for the 4G, but I have test driven both the base Tech and SH-AWD Techa few times. It has been probaly 2 months, but now my car itch is acting up and now that G37 is becoming available I am back into the selection process. Since I was in the dealer last week to set up a service appointment, my sales guy was crying about sales. I said sell me a AWD for invocie and we'll talk. Well he wncouraged me to come back when ready. I went to today to drive the AWD again and he is ready to sell me a 4G AWD for around invoice maybe $300 over. I took one out again. Here are my follow up impressions, you can search for my more thorough review of the base and QWD from a few months back.

For reference today I also drove a Genesis (no laughing) and a G37 sedan.

The 4G is a very refined machine, the ride in the AWD is dead on perfect. In the past I mentioned I liked my 3G Type-S better, but after this ride I am convinced I was drugged the last time. The 4G is great balance of nice ride and great handling. The steering a tad numb and soft, but a minor tweak and they'll have it dead on. The acceleration is very good, but even with the 3.7 you can feel it has to pull a bunch of weight, still got up and went, but the weight penalty hurts it. The G37 is really a good driving machine, but still lacks some of the refinement. It is a little harsh and raspy on the roade, but then again their target audience probaly enjoys that.

The exterior is gorowing on me a tad, I still don't like the beak, but ironically the beak is growing on me faster than the tail is. Soomething about the tail lights still turns me off and the big bumper and the reflectors.

The interior is more upscale than my 3G, the seats are very supportive without being constraining (like the G37 Sport seats are). I still don't care for the navi hump, prefer the TSX and BMW7 way of sweeping the navi hump into the main cowl. And the first comment the girl friend made when getting in the car was the center control pod looks ceheapy and right out of the Accord. Here statement also was that this is not what you expect in a $43K car, and I too can't stand the clutter and mess of the buttons and cheap look and cyan very blocky looking info display. The Navi screen is awesome and a tad cleaner looking that the Genesis. The ELS is a decent system, far better than the 3G, but still not as good as the Genesis Lexicon.

As for the Navi, well Acura is truly second to NONE! The closest Navi I have seen is the Genesis is very flexible and its voice commands are in the same ballpark. Audi Navi si lame and Infinit is down right looking bad. The G37 needs a better larger display ASAP! No wonder Infiniti says only about 30-40% of their cars are made and sold with Navi.

Overall the AWD is a nice car, what they need to do is offer the AWD ride and seats wihtout AWD. I just don't see the value, AWD will provide little or no benefit for me in ATL that warrants the extrs $4K price point. The exterior styling is still something I'll never love, maybe tolerate at best. And the Control pod inside needs a more refined, cleaner upscale look and feel. Even the G37 control interface is leaps better the Genesis is simply an understated elegant yet very functional control system.

Wavehogger

I was in the same boat as you Keith. Life is about sacrifice. Think to yourself, what are the top 3 things you can't live with, and without in your new car?

You can't make everyone happy all the time. It sounds like you made this decision months ago.. Buy the G and stop whining!

crxb

nice comparo KeithL.
I had thought of that 2. Sell a 4G TL for less than the SH-AWD - but w/ the SH car's suspension, seats, and steering wheel.
- I just don't like the wheel spin w/ all the power going to the front wheels - but then isn't that what all the car magazines complained about w/ the 3G compared to its rwd competitors?

crxb

maybe what you want KeithL is a rwd 5G TL - but if the rumors are true they stopped the development of that platform

PetesTL

I agree with Wave, at some point Keith, you're just gonna have to jump in and not look back. No car is perfect and there's always something better on the horizon. I find it kinda funny that over the course of the last several months, you keep saying how you just don't like the 4G and that you would rather get the G37. Well, the fact that you're still here without the G tells me something keeps drawing you back to the Acura.....but don't buy the 4G unless you're absolutely sure this is the car you want.

NYSH-AWD

I don't know Keith, do you really wanna break your trend of TLs??? I think you're right about many comments but IMO the best car remains the TL because of residual after three years. I'd hate to drive a brand new car that is worth less than a nice used car (obviously comparable ones).

crxb

here's a 3 vs G review for you KeithL

http://www.motivemag.com/pub/feature...7S_Sedan.shtml

bmode

Come to the darkside Luke...find out who your daddy really is! Plus you can become a non hater, if you join Darth Vader.

rehab_pain

i test drove the g37x sedan and coupe as well before finally getting the TL. The g37x is a nice car and i always wanted a g35 coupe when it first came out awhile ago. I liked the way the sedan drove and was willing to purchase it that day, except they didn't have the color I wanted. When i drove the TL ii was glad i didn't get the g37x, because the ride felt so much better. I was dead set on not getting an acura because we have had three, but the ride and rear end sold me. I think either way you can't go wrong, the g is a nice car as well, just a little small for me.

hydr0

I said it before in another post: I can't recommend the G37x enough. If I didn't already have one for two years, I would get it in a heartbeat. I just didn't want to be in the same car for 5-6 years. Yeah they both have their strong points and weak points, but to me the G is the better car. It's faster, got stronger handling and suspension, is AWD for a FWD price tag, and is slick looking as all hell. Its weak points are: It's smaller, and its navi and radio interface is horrible. You get used to it, but after using the TL's for a month, I see it's leaps and bounds better than the G. The major problem with the G for me was the smaller interior, because I'm 6'3" 270 pounds. I NEEEED a bigger car, and the TL's fits me quite nicely. If you're not as big, then the G's interior is fine. The TL offers a much smoother ride, but as far as grip, handling and speed go, the G owns.

Bottom line, if you really think the TL's exterior is ugly, DON'T GET IT! Get the G, you'll love it.

PetesTL

I test drove a G35x a while back, and to me, the SH-AWD TL w/19 HPT handles and grips better. The G will be a little quicker off the line and the steering a little sharper but that's it.

VQPower37

wait til 2010 for the 6MT SHAWD to come out ... that is what i am doing before i jump on one, but i won't be getting rid of my 3rd gen (i love this car too much)

bmode

Wait two years for a car you haven't seen yet? Who knows what they're going to do to it? Whoa... Hydro, How you fitting in those tight TL seats. I'm a big boy too, 6'1" 250. My old TL seats didn't wrap as much, and my backside just fits in the 4G nicely. In fact, the seats hold on the lateral, and help body roll for me? What say you?

ssim3

Keith you are saying the same thing I have said about the RL. Acura will always be a bit player in the upper end market as long as they hang their hat on SHAWD on their high end units. I am spending 40-50k on a car I do not want fwd nor do I want awd which is heavier, causes worse fuel efficirncy & has a better chance of breaking. If Acura really wants to compete with 5, E, GS, M they must offer a rwd alternative.

JAB00

If I were in the market for a new ride the 4G SH-AWD TL would be on the top of the list. However, I am content with my 05 3G TL. I still love it as the same day I bought it new. I'll probably keep it for another 3-4 years. Hopefully then the 5G TL would be on point.

pokin

LOL! I feel his pain. I am not a fan of the 4G exterior either. However even before the first spy shot, I knew one thing was certain - Acura would not disappoint in ride and interior styling.

Luckily, I am not currently in the market for another car. If so (besides getting another 3G), it would be a very painful process of choosing. No doubt, I would slowly edge toward the 4G - even with my opinion of its exterior. Why? except the 3G, the 4G offers the most and biggest bang for the buck - by far. The others that I would consider...

335 is $$$
Audi is simply overpriced
CTS are nice, but still suffers from the Cadillac brand
G3x is fast, but its interior does not match its class
IS350's bland styling is not my cup of tea.

So, that brings me back to the 4G TL... it sure is a sweet ride, but that styling.... I see where Keith is headed ---> floating to the Darkside.

KeithL

I agree and as others have said it is all about compromises, but I think the 4G is too many compromises. I have said this before, EVERY day when I go into my garage to go to work and see the front of my 3G Type-S I smile and say I love this car, and think the same thing as I drive it and then when I get to work and look back to lock it I just love it. While I will love the 4G AWD ride I can;t ever see myself feeling the same joy when I see it and maybe the cluttered cheap control pod will grow on me, but I am still not seeing that yet. The good news is the more I wait they are virtually down to invocie on a AWD for me so maybe at some point, but the G37 is a sweet ride. The compromises I give up in a G37 are far less thana 4G. The G37 biggest complaints for me are the navi voice command interface is stoen age compared to Acura and the limitation they impose while driving. The only other real compromise is the car is not as quite or refined feeling, but I think some of that is by design as sports car people want to hear and feel their engines. And while I really want a G and it does ride nice, there is just something about the Acura ride in the Type-S and AWD that make it the perfect blend of ride comfort and sportiness. I equate this to almost going theough a divorce, I have had 5 3G TLs and been driving them for 5 years so the decision to part ways is a long and painful one. ;-)

JD23

If you like your 08 Type-S more than any current models, why don't you stick with it and avoid having to make this decision? Obviously, there is no real need to replace a relatively new car.

Wavehogger

Didn't you see his sig JD, for the past 3 yrs he has gotten a new car every year. Keith, I'm almost as bad as you, I average 2-2.5 yrs before switches. As I look at your sig, I can understand the 04 non-navi to 06 navi switch, but the 06 - 07 navi to navi, those were almost exactly the same car. I am wondering why you wanted to switch that year? And then the 07-08 Type-S I get, but then why another 08 Type-S? was something wrong with the first one?

And hey, I'm not judging, believe me my friends and family question my desire and love for trying/exploring new vehicles, it's a hobby. I think my spouse wonders sometimes if I'm gonna try a new model out, but that make and model is a one of a kind.

But I always switch it up, going from a sports car to a truck, an SUV, a sedan..etc What were a few of your vehicles that came before the 04 TL? If i'm being too nosey, nevermind.

PetesTL

...Or just avoid the 4G forum altogether. Constantly coming to this forum will eventually persuade and tempt you to buy the 4G....look at the all former 3G owners and even some Type-S owners who ended up jumping ship.....it's just going to increase over time. Stick to the 3G forum if you're happy with your current ride.

KeithL

I shoudl, but I like seeing what everyone has to say about their 4G. One thing I have noticed on some of my test drives, is while the leather in the 4G is nicer than 3G is seems to be bunching up and creasing on the few cars I have tested, how are all of your 4G leather seats doing?

hydr0

The seats are VERY comfortable, except for one problem. The contour of the back of the seat doesn't quite fit me. The wings, which are supposed to envelop you, just press into the sides of my back lol. Some of the luxury cars have a button that widens the back, which i wish this had, but oh well. The G's seats (non-sport) had a flatter back, which was better for me. But it's all good, I've been hitting the gym and dieting (I was 300 pounds about 5 months ago), and sooner or later this seat will fit me like a glove =P

And as far as the quality of the leather, it's pretty nice. No bunching. It's not quite CL63 nice, but it's nice nonetheless lol.

crxb

The seat material to me is softer than my 3. It took me awhile to get the seat adjusted right where I wanted - but now It fits me fine. I like the seat bolsters of the SH more than the seats w/o in the base car. So far the appearance of the material looks good - but hey even the 3 material looked good at 1st.

J.A.S.

Is there a way to adjust the driver's head rest? It is a bit too forward for me and I tilt the entire seat back to compensate. But I still find myself adjusting the seat every so often to get it right.

hydr0

Yeah I do the same thing. Still trying to find the sweet spot. I think I got it this time though. Unfortunately, nothing you can do with the headrest. I'd like to tilt it back as well.

ostrich

Keith, it sounded like you liked the 4G a lot, and probably because of the previous impression, you are really trying to talk yourself into getting one now.

While I agree with everything that you said, I wonder if you also took this into consideration too - the 4G TL is brand new and is in the first year of this model cycle, while the G sedan is about half way through its current model cycle now. So in a couple of years' time, the G sedan will have a brand new model cycle while the TL will only be half way through this cycle.

I don't know if this matters to you? It's just a thought.

CraigMacDTA

Keith, I have a quick question...usually when one trades in their car only after owning for a year or less, you loose big time with depreciating value. Is it a matter of not giving a shit about losing money or do you have a "pact" with your dealer to give you close to retail value when you trade in. I'm thinking you should drive your type-S a little longer, given the current economic situation. But hey, when yah get that itch I guess it needs to be scratched!

KeithL

True, but considering I have owned 5 3G TLs since 04 the odds that I woudl have the G37 at body change time is slim.

As much as I may take grief from the guys here I may go see what kind of deal I can do on the SH-AWD. With the $1K cash back it is the top end of what I want to spend and it does ride awesome!

PetesTL

I don't know if he can wait that long given his prior history of exchanging many cars in a short period.

hydr0

OK I'll take that, if they tested it under OPTIMAL conditions and it pushed a 5.2, god bless =)

KeithL

I buy low and sell high essentially. I usually sell outright since trade a 1 year odl car is a blood bath. I have never lost money on a car, I may on my current 3G Type-S since the market sucks and the 08's tanked in value when the 09 came out, but we'll see.

Wavehogger

KeithL

Sorry if you don't believe me, but it is true, I may have lost $200 on my 07 Camry. My 04 TL I had 2 years and actually made some $$ on it at sale time, my 06, 07 and first 08 were all sold for what I owed on them, and I fully finance my cars and look at it as a perpetual lease.

Wavehogger

If that's what you mean then sure, I haven't lost anything either. Be sure to include the higher insurance costs, excise and sales taxes, fees, etc, and repetitive modifications, in the 'perpetual lease' formula. You get my drift. You certainly would be spending less if you didn't switch so often.

KeithL

I am including all that, but the car looses value over time anyway. I finace a given amount for same time and have same mnthly payments, pretty much the way a lease works, yeah I pay the sales taxes, but the car is worth thousands less when I sell it. You have to pay sales tax on any new car, so thats the cost of flipping frequently. So I'll clarify that as far as the car's value vs what I am selling it for I don't loose compared to what I owe on it.

SSFTSX

You also get new tires/New warranty/less maintaince cost. There is no such thing as 15k/30K service.
Leasing a car is the best option.

KeithL

Exactly! I never put tires, brakes or anything on a car, I never have any paid service other than oil changes, basically my car payment and insurance is my only payment, if I keep a car 2-3 years the trigger to buy a new one is when it needs $800 in tires I justify a new car by deferring that $800 into the cost of a new car. I think my 2000 I30 I might have owned for a set of front brakes. I have never owned a car more than 44K miles. Once the warranty is over I want to be in something new.

maverickinvestor

Keith, reading all your posts, it's really amazing how much time you must be constantly devoting to researching/test driving cars! Changing your cars so often, you are a true car enthusiast and a car dealer's dream!!

Anyway it sounds like you are really having a hard time deciding on your next car because nothing else seems to have all the qualities that you seem to have found in your current 3G TYPE S. But yet you are getting bored...

So how about looking at your situation this way: why don't you just go and get either a 4GTL SHAWD or G37.

Based on your history, you will most likely be staying with whatever you pick for a year or 2 at most anyway.

I say this because even though you stated that your current TYPE S has been real close to ideal for you in terms of its blend of looks/sportiness/refinement/value, you are still itching to get a new ride.

So although none of the models you're now considering has the ideal blend that the 3G has, I say just pick one!!!

You can always (most likely will anyway) sell it and get something else after a year or 2 no matter which car you pick!

I mean it's not like you are going to stay with what ever you pick for 10 years or something like that in which case I can see why it pays to agonize over the decision.

To put it in another way, it seems to me that car buying for you is more like "hooking up" than "tying the knot".

So my suggestion to you is don't sweat it buddy! Just do it!

On the other hand, Keith you could be enjoying the car shopping process (thrill of the chase) as much as, or indeed perhaps even more than, the endpoint. Of course if this is the case I guess you should drag out the buying process as long as possible to maximize the fun!

KeithL

[QUOTE=maverickinvestor;10383057]I don't really spend that much time, I test drive them every so often when I have some time to kill. I participate on this forum and the G35Driver forum and occasionally scan some other forums.

Pretty accurate statement. I love Acura ride, love the G37 styling especially compared to the 4G.

That is pretty much what I am down to. I woudl probably do an A4, but they just don;t have what I want in stock and won't for some time.

Probably true as well.

True, trying to avoid buyers remorse.

Yeah funny becasue I always said if I have to stick with a car the 3G Type-S would be it.

Funny my GF says the same thing, but I do enjoy test driving different cars, maybe it reassures my current pick.

JD23

This statement conflicts with the opinion of nearly every financial professional. If one wants a new vehicle every two years, then leasing is the best option. However, if one wants to minimize the amount spent on cars, the best option is to buy and own for at least six years. Leasing guarantees a state of perpetual car payments.