real_mckoy

I do not know if someone already asked this question i searched but could not find an answer specific to our generation and makel.. so i was driving home in sport mode and redlined it was not intentionally because when i shift up there was that nano second delay. My question is in our case sport mode and vtec what happens when we redline our cars? on the other forums they mention that pistons could get damage the engine life span will be shorten and engine blocks could be broken, these are all possibilities but i wanted some answers for our car specifically . Also when it occured the needle bounced back 2 twice.

DefMunkie

Nothing. In modern cars the ECU will cut fuel and spark to prevent that from happening (That was the bounce you felt/ saw on the tach). You could run your TL up to redline and it will just sit there and bounce all day with no damage to your engine. It is a fail safe designed to protect the engine from the driver.

Scenarios were you could over rev your engine:
- In older cars without the ECU or ignition cut.

- In a manual car while performing the money shift... (Example: downshifting from high rpm in 4th to 1st or 5th to 2nd)

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Great answer DefMunkie!
as stated, a modern automatic car WILL never mechanically over rev.

however; a modern manual transmission car WILL not have the protection on downshifts, because it is mechanically over-revving the engine, if a "money shift" happened

DefMunkie

Thanks Justnspace mechanically over rev was the word I was looking for!

An added protection in the Automatic TL is when you have the car in Park or Neutral and floor the gas it will not allow the engine to go over a certain RPM....If I remember correctly that was 3,500 to 4,000 rpm in my TL.

Modern ECU's are very smart. Especially on our Acura's!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^the neutral thing applies to my 6MT as well.
I cant rev it past 5k in neutral

mylove4cars

I might be mistaken, I'm under the impression that the OP means using the paddle shift in S mode, he did not say paddle shift, nevertheless S mode is sequential shifting. Never thought about this is the ECU protecting a downshift like for example 4 - 2.

DefMunkie

In the Automatics the TCM (Transmission control module) prevents the transmission from shifting into a lower gear, while using the paddles, until the RPM's are in inside the safe zone.

DefMunkie

If you were to launch your TL whats the optimal RPM for your car?

Brock79

Haha, launch a TL, it's not a sports car.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

because I care about my drive train, i will not launch it.
plus, I have a 2006 6MT FWD. not the very best platform to 'launch'

I find that if i rev to 2k and let the clutch go, I have VERY minimal wheel spin and wheel hop, which can get me to vtec faster than if i launched at a higher RPM.
with a higher RPM, i'm worried about wheel hop and spin and breaking mounts and LSD.
plus with the mentioned wheel hop/spin it takes LONGER to get into vtec...because you're slipping all over the place.

yes, brock we know its not a sports car, but I do edge out older sports cars. my 0-60 is pretty quick.
my friend has a '86 monte carlo SS with a small block 350 in it.
I can whoop the fuck out of him at any speeds.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

thats a modern automatic.
modern automatics will never, NEVER, over-rev.

a manual transmission on downshifts WILL over rev
6MT's cant over rev up-shifting, as the computer will not allow it.

012TL-GLM

The 6 spd auto in the TL will not let you brake torque much past 1K rpm before it automatically shifts to 2nd. If you want to *launch* your best bet is going to be S mode, turn off traction control, and punch the Go pedal. I usually shift around 6K RPM on hard runs. Have fun/be safe

012TL-GLM

Depending on RPM the 6spd auto in the TL will allow a double down, but not triple, at least in my experience. I've dropped from 5 to 3 several times in S mode with two quick pulls of the paddle, but if I hit it a 3rd time it ignores me

DefMunkie

It's a car and I'm a car enthusiast that enjoys driving and not hard parking. I quarter mile and autocross every car I've owned to get a better feel for it.
Yes it's not a sports car, that's what my Corvette and S2000 are for, however I like to understand the limitations and capabilities of my equipment and tools.

DefMunkie

I've found that in addition to TC off and left foot braking for launch (on my 2010 it will let me get a little over 2,000 rpm) rolling onto the throttle quickly instead of straight to the floor helps the my 5 spd auto launch quicker. I think the drive by wire doesn't like it. Once again this all based on my experiences and driving style in the car, it isn't necessarily the correct method but it seems to work better for me.

Also with the paddle shifters on the Auto I have to anticipate the shift around 700rpm earlier to avoid hitting the rev limiter wall. I think your correct that shifting at 6,000 rpms is optimal, I feel the power start dying out after that...Would love to see a dyno for the SH-AWD to confirm!!

docboy

The 3 series and G37 are not "sports cars" either, but I see people launch them at stop, even mini vans. Small pleasures in life make it worthwhile, sports cars or not.

DefMunkie

Thank you for stating that in simple and elegant way

mylove4cars

Yep, with my 2011 SH-AWD - 6000 rpm is about as good as it gets. (We need a tune, badly)

mylove4cars

Tell me Brock; what is a sports car in your conception?

Skier4lyfe303

iTrader: (32)

Just a few of my experiences (2010 SH-AWD 6SPD MT):
-Fuel cut is at 6900RPM's, although you can easily over rev the engine. Easiest way is the "money shift" (never heard this term used before) by redlining 3rd gear going for a quick shift into 4th gear but accidentally shifting the car into 2nd (there are many combinations for this, I would think accidentally going into 3rd instead of 5th would be the most common because it's in the middle of the gears). I did this in my 94 Integra GSR (was going to shift into 5th from 4th and I shifted into 3rd on accident) I've never seen the RPM's climb so fast. I hit 9000RPM's almost instantly from the point the clutch engaged but the car was fine. Although I shifted back into 4th as quickly as possible.

-The stock Launch control (revs bouncing around 4-5K) only works when the car is stopped (or very slow speeds) and in neutral (or clutch is pressed to the floor). If I am going 10MPH in neutral and try to hit the launch control the car will go all the way to the 6900 fuel cut.

-Stock the car does start to loose power at 6000 RPM's. That doesn't mean its time to shift though, as the car is still making more power than it does at 5000 RPM's (which you would be at or below when upshifting).

Stock 2010 SH-AWD 6SPD MT on a mustang dyno (227WHP and 201 Torque):


I have a dyno graph from my car as it currently sits. I don't want to post it until I can have my friend come with his relatively stock 6SPD MT 4G TL (only thing he has is a Takeda SRI). The reason for this is: I did three pulls when I first dyno'd my car (3rd gear, 4th gear & 3rd gear again). I dramatically lost power after the first pull because the cats (precats and the 3rd cat) were getting so hot. I lost around 20WHP on the second and third pulls. The dyno I have comparing my stock car vs today has one of the 2nd or 3rd pulls on it, instead of the first (which made the most power).

The dyno has been calibrated several times since I did my first baseline, so I need a stock car (with the current calibration on the dyno) to compare with.

My latest dyno I made 242WHP and 218 Torque. The car was still making power when it hit fuel cut at 6900RPM's (as I was watching the dyno monitor). These numbers were from the 10th or so pull (last of the day), as we were calibrating the dyno (had to keep calling Mustang to make sure all the calibration numbers were correct). I went through a quarter tank of gas on the dyno that day, all 3rd and 4th gear pulls.

So I plan to go to the dyno soon and compare 3rd gear on my car vs 3rd gear on my friends car with the Takeda SRI. I want both cars to be relatively cool (so no pulls on the way to the dyno) so heat isn't a factor (as it was in the above numbers).

We have driven each others cars since the mods were installed on the both cars and we both noticed a difference in power between the two cars.

DefMunkie

^^ Glad to see my butt dyno still works with the power loss at 6,000rpm.

Very linear powerband GREAT!!!!

Looking forward to your continued build and results!!

real_mckoy

I just want to say thank you all who have chimed in on this thread, my question was more than answered and i am learning

fsttyms1

You hit the revlimiter. It is there to protect the engine. My TL engines have seen it at least once everyday for the past 600k miles, track days i cant even count how many times, then you have the occasional just for shits and grins. You didnt hurt it, dont worry.

docboy

His Taurus SHO

mylove4cars

Yes Haha SHO, I believe I have asked him this once before, his answer? Nonsense.

Petergunz416

I love to unleash my AWD TL , for a car that has 305 hp , can haul some ass

liquidneon

lol yup, I learned about the fuel cut off early in my 6MT. I got a little too aggressive and the gas pedal just dropped to the floor... scaring the sh1t out of me. Then I found out it's for my own protection thank you Acura!

Brock79

Those cars you mentioned and ones that are similar are not meant to be launched or really neat on. A sports car is designed to be beat on because the manufacturer built the car for that exact reason.

Brock79

Not a TL and not my SHO either. I do consider my 2009 Vette a sports car though.

Brock79

The reason I didn't answer is because I didn't see the question, I actually forgot all about this thread and it's silly nonsense to begin with. My first response was more than enough for this thread. But I forgot your the guy that drives on the Autobahn at 160+ for hours on end! which is BS as well and you know it. Any car manufactured for the public would overheat and destroy itself doing that. Look at race cars that are built specifically for this, like Nascar, Indy cars, anything running in the 24 hours of lemans. There are always multiple cars that have catastrophic failure. These race cars are over built and not available for the public. Yet a car off the shelf by the same manufacturer is going to go do this feat with no problem? Cut you BS nonsense out.

Brock79

I also forgot to mention, the SHO is offered with a performance package. It adds 7 radiators to the car along with lightweight wheels and performance tires. This was for the guys that track their cars. So yea I guess it is considered a sports car.

Edward'TLS

Speaking about tracking cars.

How comes there are hardly any SHO entry, let alone winning, in the various FIA-sanctioned "Touring Cup" races in and outside North America ?

However, Integra, Civic, Euro-Accord, and most importantly TSX have their footprints all over those races, especially the North American SCCA-WC in which the RealTime Acura sedans have been doing extremely well, winning both the Driver's and the Manufacturer's championships.

Brock79

This is a loaded question, and shows that you don't understand racing and all that goes with it. I will try to answer with a short reply and hopefully you will get enough from it. By the way, all of the cars you mentioned and the winnings aren't all there.

The SHO is not a stock Taurus, it's Fords HIPO car. So taking this into consideration and how all racing events work, the SHO wouldn't be an eligible car. Remind you we are talking about national sanctioned racing, not your fly by one weekend a year race. The SHO is not the basic Taurus so there fore if ford entered the Taurus it would have to be the standard 3.5 engine to meet the eligibility. The SHO's HP and TQ output is to far apart from the standard taurus.

This is evident in the Corvette racing teams and is very well known in the racing world. The C6 Vettes had three different variants, your base, Z06 and ZR1. Chevy entered the Z06 as their race car. The sanctioning bodies turned around and said that car is to far apart from the base cars power output. So they went ahead and dropped the output to compete and meet the rules/guidelines. Look it up fr yourself

Now here's the difference why Chevy did this and Ford won't bother. The SHO is a niche market and as far as sales is a small time percentage of Fords sales. They would rather put their money into the Mustang market as is proven by the vast Ford Motor Racing team parts available for the Mustang.

The Vette is Chevy's flagship vehicle, so it's very understandable as into the money they will drop into their racing department.

There really is no backing of the SHO as it's not a real money maker for Ford and any second hand company isn't going to invest into the time and research to race these cars. It's kind of the same thing with the 4G, there is no real aftermarket for these cars for a reason. The sales were weak and there isn't enough demand to invest into these 4G's.

The SHO does have some aftermarket support though and can get down into the low 11's with what is out there. Hope this helps you understand the reason why this car isn't raced.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Thanks for your detailed explanation why the SHO is not used in races.

Then all these performance package, 7 rads, lightweight wheels, perf tires, are there for nothing since the SHO will never be raced.

But rather, other cars that aren't offered a performance package, will be used for racing. What an irony.

Brock79

No, not exactly, those other cars you mentioned are not regular off the shelf cars, they are stripped down variants with extra power added as well as other performance parts. The upgraded sho is for weekend warriors who want a nice car for the week and something they can race on the weekends. Like I said you don't understand racing and what goes into it. If you did, the last post you made wouldn't have been made.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

welp, my friend performed the money shift on my car.

I lost compression due to some bent valves. dont know which ones. but planning on machining some type-s heads!

Edward'TLS

My last post has nothing to do how much understanding of racing. It has to do with the fact that in many FIA-sanctioned Touring Cup races (in particular Showroom Stock Car events); participants include stock and prepped Honda/Mazda/Volks/Cadillac/etc. sedans, but never ever the Ford Taurus because of which is not deemed competitive.

It is also a laughable logic that when the SHO, that a perf package, 7 rads, lightweight wheels, perf tires, and can only participate in some non-FIA-sanctioned run-of-the-mill weekend events; is considered a sport car; but other sport sedans, that have aftermarket lightweight wheels, perf tires, and participate in FIA-sanctioned races; isn't considered a sport car.

Your posts have lots of faulty logic.

Brock79

Just because you pay a prostitute for to go to dinner with you and have sex with you doesn't make her your GF.

The same exact way dressing up a little civic and throwing some light weight wheels on it doesn't make it a sports car.

I hope you can understand this.

DefMunkie

That sucks! Hopefully you get your TL back up and running.

Mods: Can you please close this thread...The OP's question has been answered and at this point the thread has been completely derailed.

Edward'TLS

So you will consider a professionally trained prostitute who goes to dinner with you, to be your GF ?

The same exact way that having offered a performance package, 7 radiators, lightweight wheels, and performance tires, doesn't automatically make the sedan a sports car either.

I too hope you can understand this.