axg

I think I'm going to buy a new TL, but since there basically aren't any manual transmission models in stock here (here = "California and the six states closest to it", according to my local dealer) it looks like I will have to order sight-unseen. Yes, I've test driven the AT versions, but I am still unsure I'm doing the right thing.

Can some one please help with the following questions?

Out of habit (admittedly, not any deep reason any more) I tend to heel-toe my downshifts frequently. If anyone else does this, how suited do you feel the pedals are set up for this? I basically gave up on getting a CTS-V since I couldn't ever imagine dealing with its pedal layout.

I hate the restricted color selection for MT both outside and inside (no selection at all inside), as well as the fact that I can't get the advance package; these seemingly meaningless restrictions are almost enough by itself to put me off (is Acura trying to kill MT interest intentionally?) Does anyone have any speculation whether that will change for 2013? (I guessing not else I would have found it by searching.)

My dealer says that at this moment MT TLs are currently un-orderable, for unclear reasons but perhaps relating to parts availability. Does anyone know whether this is true or just the usual dealer nonsense trying to get me to buy something in stock (he was very credible, I tend to believe him, but then I've seen nothing about this online that I can find.) If it's true, any idea when the situation clears up?

N.b. any clue when we will know the 2013 details. I am aware that changes will be very minor if any, but I would put off ordering if I could get a more interesting color or such.

Finally, what's the least awful/dull color among those available to MT? :-) (No I'm not fastidious enough to get black.)

Thanks for any help! (Please save me from buying an Audi!!)

JM2010 SH-AWD

Go for it! The 6MT TL is a delight to drive. The shift feel is about perfect. Heel/toe is very easy. You can really make this car sing with the MT.

I agree with you on the colors. I applaud Acura for making the car with a 6MT, but if they keep restricting the colors so much (and depress demand) I just hope they don't use that to justify axing the 6MT.

As to supply, it's pretty clear that they are in short supply right now. (Just look on Autotrader). I heard it was because the plant that produces the MT was damaged in the tsunami, but don't know if that's true.

As to colors, I love my CBP, but of course, it's a bear to keep clean. I just saw a white AWD the other day - I have to say the 2012s look really nice in that color.

Good luck with the purchase.

Acura2010

I went from a 2010 SH-AWD Automatic (Black) to a 2012 SH-AWD 6 MT, White. The car feels like a totally different vehicle witht he MT. You won't regret it, and white is amazing. I have seen a few 2012's in the graphite colour (dark grey), must say it also looks very nice. Not sure if it's available in 6mt though.

Pete2010

I love my 6MT - 2.5 years later is still drives great (albeit one minor 3rd gear issue the dealer resolved for me).

As for heel-toe - I have size 12's and I have no issues heel toe downshifting. I'm pretty sure the distance between the pedals is the same as the 6AT - so if that works for you - then you'll be set in the 6MT.

Best of luck! And welcome to AZ.

LawnPro

It is to bad that acura does not offer many choices for the few 6m/t enthusiasts. I drove a loaner tl with the auto/paddle shifters and was not near as fun to the 6m/t. Jmo. My next tl i will test drive tl's with both tranny's-just to compare. There are so few sport luxery sedans that have the manual option, it makes acura unique and special compared to the other brands. I hope acura remembers this fact when the 5G becomes available. Color options - i like cbp and wdp.

axg

Thanks everyone. I guess my next challenge is actually being able to order the car!

Ag Surfer

No problems here with rev matching on my down shifts. I use the ball of my foot on the brake and the outside of my foot on the gas (as I do in every other car) and it works great. I have owned a variety of vehicles from a 996 turbo, e39 m5, mk4 r32, and a lot in between (I have Car A.D.D.) and I still think that the TL has great overall performance for a daily driver. Plenty of power and you can really keep the fire stoked with the MT.

gibjer

I'll echo what Ag said, very easy to heal toe, I'm like him and use ball of foot on brake and side of foot on the gas, although I've done it the "proper" way as well.

They only produce the manual transmissions in batches, so I've been told, so it doesn't surprise me if they are finishing up the '12 model year run that you may not see another MT made until the '13's start rolling down the production line.

I know a lot of dealers order manuals and odd colors early in the model year, so I assume the factories tool to suit, so hopefully availability will be good again here when the '13s start to hit, but given that there's very little change with this MY I wouldn't expect that to happen till mid summer.

MileHigh6MT

In Denver. Test drove the car twice in November and felt peddle placement was spot on - I liked it better than the S4. There was only one silver moon available in the western US and it was sold two days after my initial call to the dealer. In December, the dealer was unable to order the vehicle via the usual allocation mechanisms - I guess Acura was not planning on making any in January. The sales manager then spoke with the Regional Rep factory rep in early January and they are going to make it happen. I should expect the car to be built in Feb and delivery in the first week of March. I like black but am unwilling to deal with another black car. Graphite and Silver moon I thought looked good, especially with a light window tint on the silver moon.

draph

Wow, I just checked out the Acura site for build your own 6MT. I thought my monitor switched to monochrome mode....Maybe Acura is trying not to alienate the 6MT buyers who bought their cars before the grill "fix". IE, I have the "ugly" grill on my 2010 6MT, but at least I was able to get the umber interior and bronze exterior.

axg

Thanks everyone.

axg

Thanks everyone. Got my car (purchased sight unseen last week) and picked it up yesterday. I didn't have much choice in anything since there are essentially no 6MT's anywhere near the west coast, so I feel very fortunate to have got one in CA at this time. All in all, incredibly happy with my dealer sales experience but annoyed at Acura itself for so obviously trying to make MT purchases hard.

Color was silver moon - not thrilled by this (having convinced myself what white was the least horrible color in the limited MT range) but it's growing on me.

H&T seems far, far, from ideal to me but, unlike other cars (notably CTS-V that I cross shopped), it's still at least plausible. It will take practice.

Major complaints so far: the clutch is very light and engagement high (I'm sure I'll get used to this but for now it's as if I first learned to drive); the steering is way overboosted (can this be reflashed?), and overall the suspension is very soft and disengaged. And (I knew this from the specs, but now I drive around and try to park this new car safely it sinks in) this is a wide, wide, vehicle :-(

Everything else is good. But I need some mods that get me feeling closer to the road - ideas?

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

The suspension is very soft !?

winstrolvtec

^And disengaged? It really does depend on what you are coming from, I guess. The consensus around here is that it is on the firm side, some claim harsh but I think most don't come from sportier variety vehicles. Personally, I think the TL 6MT is middle of the spectrum in the grand scheme of things. There are many softer riding cars and then there are also plenty that are much sportier with far worse rides.

Given the cars handling ability, I think it rides real well and that is how it should probably be looked at. It gives up only margins in handling compared to some very high end dedicted sports cars/coupes. That it is a luxury sedan first and foremost and mid sized nontheless is very impressive IMO.

Anyway, congrats OP. You did the right thing. In a couple of years when Acura probably drops the 6MT (but I really hope not) and there are next to zero cars available with 6MT and AWD, especially mid sized with torque vectoring, you will be grateful that you had the opportunity and took advantage of it.

Pete2010

Yea - odd to hear the suspension being "soft" - I wouldn't classify it as soft at all.

As for the steering - the 6MT does have a bit of soft steering (you'll get used to it) - it's better than the non MT TL's - they tweaked the electric steering.

I will agree on the clutch - it's all a matter of the car you came from before and what you're used to. Engagement is high - but again, you get used to it.

Congrats on the purchase!

axg

> Yea - odd to hear the suspension being "soft" - I wouldn't classify it as soft at all

Ok, I suppose it's all relative. But to ME, it feels like floating on a cloud, indeed a rather light and fluffy cloud, compared to anything I've owned before. This was a very intentional decision - I'm getting old - but I am becoming a bit fearful that I have gone too far in the "should buy a more gentle car" direction :-(

My problem now is that though I know I've purchased a very capable vehicle, I am struggling to know how to trust it or when I am going too far. If I drive a corner I'd take at 80 in my old car, well know even at 50 I get concerned because I just don't yet have any feel as to where I should be: suspension, still bouncy thanks, steering, still isolated thanks, so I'm just lost. I wonder if I should take it to an auto-x or track day or something just to calibrate myself as to when the car gives "no more!" signals.

Edward'TLS

You've got yourself a new car. It'll take some time to get use to the new handling dynamics and new adhesion limits.

The TL is not a true sport car, so don't expect it to have bone-jarring suspension and arm-wrestling steering feel. But the TL, especially the SH-AWD trim, is still a very capable car with high cornering limits.

You're concerned because you've been accustomed to the old feedback from your old car, which is vastly different from the new feedback from your new TL. You just have to learn to read the feedback from your new car.

Once you know the limits of your new TL, you'll be surprised by how capable it is as a sport sedan.

axg

Thanks Edward'TLS, you have it exactly right. My problem is not just to appreciate a new car, but in fact a different class of car (comfortable, luxurious, large, and reliable! - while still with MT) than I've ever had. I knew this and it was intentional to get something like this - I purchased something new to me and out of my comfort zone quite deliberately, and with eyes wide open. I expected the adjustment to take time, and still have a lot of hope that I'll get used to it!

The TL AWD seemed to be the best in the category I wanted to try by far (before you ask, BMW is a logical comparison, but was ruled out by my strong wish for a reliable car this time around. And other brands, other issues...)

Me, I'm 100% responsible for the chance I took, so there is no criticism of this vehicle's (stellar) attributes. But at this point it really looks like I took a leap too far. The shortest period I've ever owned a car for is 7 years; at this point I'm dubious I can live with this for 7 months. I wanted driving to be more boring, but this much more ?! - I may have messed up. If so, it's my fault.

Pete2010

I think the first time you take the car on a highway entrance, experience some drift to the outside and punch the gas pedal to correct - will cement your *correct* decision to enjoy this car.

You will definitely get used to the steering - I also felt that I was disconnected from the road more than my last car - and there was an uneasy small "dead zone" that i could feel while on the highway - I've since gotten used to it and don't even think about it anymore.

As for the suspension - there are many aftermarket options to increase the road feel - H&R springs, Tein coilovers and more recently XLR8 and his coilovers.

I've got the H&R springs - but will be replacing with XLR8's coilovers so that I can get more adjustable suspension height.

Give it some time - you'll get used to it - next time you take a long curve to get on the highway - hit the gas and the SHAWD will blow your mind.

Missed this part - push the car harder on turns - i doubt you'll still think it's a boring drive.

axg

Thanks PETE2010, I'll take your suggestions. And no matter what, will stick with it a few months to see how things develop. After that ... well my plan was that this would be the first car I didn't take down the mod path ... but it sure seems like a spring/shock set such as the XLR8 coilovers might bring this closer to something I can live with happily. Anyway, that's for the future.

JM2010 SH-AWD

By all means push it in the corners. As my salesman told me on the test drive, when your brain screams "brakes" hit the gas. The SH-AWD is magic, especially with the 6MT.

It's not a sports car, but it is a high-performing sedan.

DannyZRC

Inquiring minds have to know; previous car history?

winstrolvtec

Axg, your concerns may very well be warranted, as I do not know what you are used to driving or owned previously but one of the most intriguing elements of the car that I really like was how capable it is while not also having to feel like it.

I know that is very counter intuitive for most but it's just what I was looking for. It's true that it may not be the most engaging experience and is not easy to gauge it's limits but I grew tired of cars either being too soft and comfortable or being to sporty feeling despite their added capabilities.

With the TL, you don't really give up much in capabilities, if any, depending on what you compare it to but at the same time it has a more toned down character and demeanor than most cars that share in it's abilities. It's a car for those who want a daily driver that is as capable as it is but doesn't have to feel like it with things like overly intrusive or grabby braking, or as Pete put it, arm wrestling steering feel and jarring ride quality.

Capabilities were my first priority but it's nice to have them while also not need to always "drive" your car all of the time or always feel on edge. It doesn't force you to be engaged if you don't want to, you can just relax in it for the times that you may not be in the mood. It's as rewarding to drive as it is to just cruise in.

More specifically, the brakes are great when you lay into them but are calm and mild for normal driving. Steering is light but very percise and direct, instead of being heavy it supplements that by turning slower and tightens up and softens depending on how fast or slow you are going. Very easy for parking lot and slow speed maneuvers, while also adequate for highway/high speed driving.

For electric steering, I think it is great and have come to really appreciate the way Acura tunes it. The ride is firm but really not jarring IMO, there is enough there that you can feel it holds well but also plenty comfortable when you lay off it. Finally, the engine character which operates strongly up high but is also calm and mild down low, adds to that almost Jekyll and Hyde like demeanor and the clutch caters to lighter, smoother driving once you get used to it, and a high engagment point can actually make for very fast shifting.

Many people on first impression probably would not think this is a driver's car until they spent some time in it. Where there are many other cars that are less capable but feel as though they are race cars because of more sporty character and tuning. The 328 is one of them that comes to mind, for example. What they feel like and what the bottom-line capabilities are can be very deceiving at times.

And then there is always things you can do to add a bit more feel but rarely can you take it away. Try playing with the air pessure a bit, high performance tires, especially summers will transform any car. Then you can mod stuff like suspension, rims and brakes, etc if you want to go even further and you do not have to necessarily break the bank either. Spend some time getting used to it, just be safe about it, and try not to lift completely off the gas mid turn with the more twisty and agressive roads, as it may behave in a way that is surprising and unexpected to those not very familiar with the SH system.

axg

Previous car (7 years) an RX-8, though there was essentially no component in the suspension left stock. Before that another Acura (integra type-R, bone stock) for about 7 years too. I am _not_ trying to repeat either of those (which I both nevertheless loved); I am definitely looking for a sporty (not sports) more luxurious sedan and appreciate this needs some adjustment.

However the plot thickens a bit. The dealer needed my car back to finish some prep work (harmless error; just some miscommunication) but anyway I have a FWD Advance TL as a loaner now (obviously, an AT). I know it makes no sense, but so far at least the steering feel seems much much better than mine. FAR less over-boosted. I hate to say it but, automatic and all, I have enjoyed driving it substantially more than my new car. I see that it is running much lower tire pressure than mine (mine are 34F,32R when cold - much more than hot) so I'll play around with that when I get it back. Anyone have any other ideas?

axg

Thanks. Went on another big drive yesterday and am beginning to see this. No drama, great handling ... but still remote from me. Just, maybe a bit too much so :-( I'll grow into this.

N.b. I had done enough homework to ensure that the stock all-seasons never saw me; I got summers shipped to the dealer (Michelin Pilot Super Sports - opinions?) that were swapped in when the odometer read "4".

DannyZRC

I don't know how heavy or light the various controls were in your RX-8, but I know that the TL's controls are very light and unless the RX-8s controls were also very light, you won't feel anything.

The best advice I can give is to give it a month and think about it again then, in the mean time try to keep your internal evaluation of the car to a minimum. It takes a person a while to really acclimate.

My example: The 2 cars in our household have fairly light steering, I test drove a few cars and the standouts to me were that when I drove the TL, I felt it had just fine steering feel and could not understand journalists who criticize it as numb. By contrast, I've driven a BMW 328xi and a 550i w/ m sport, and both cars had heavy steering through which I could feel nothing at all. The stock clutch on one of our cars has a bad reputation and didn't serve us particularly well, when it came time to replace it we got a beefier aftermarket clutch. For the first month or so, and especially in the first few miles, the clutch felt too stiff, it felt underdamped, the engagement felt way too abrupt and in general it gave the impression that it would be impossible to develop the ability to use it smoothly. As you may have guessed, I now have zero issue with that clutch, but when I drive other cars I immediately notice the limp feeling of most stock clutches.

BMWs are widely reported to have great steering feel, and though I have my suspicions of mass hysteria I'm more inclined to believe that I'm just not attuned to heavy steering, and so couldn't feel what was up. Conversely, most sporty cars have heavy steering and so when people test drive the TL with it's light steering, they can't feel a thing either.

I imagine that your feelings are partly to do with this phenomena.

I suggest a period of acclimatization, and I also would probably suggest a louder exhaust. As a reformed motorcyclist, I've learned that sound goes a long long way to how I feel about a vehicle.

zmh12

There are 3 in the NJ-PA-DE area, I am actually picking up a black on black 6-Speed tonight!

Edward'TLS

One thing for sure. The seriously lack of low-end torque nature of the RX-8 won't happen again on the V6 TL.

The dual-Wankel rotary engine generates a peak torque of ~160 lbft @ 5500 rpm.

DannyZRC

peak torque isn't that handy a stat. torque curve, power/weight, gearing all matter, but peak torque.. not so much.

Edward'TLS

It's not about peak torque. It's about the lack of torque throughout the rpm range, especially in the low rpm band; and the torque curve isn't flat, like for the VTEC engines.

A mere 165 lbft max at 5500 rpm, it is almost hopeless in the low rpm band.