Poll: How do you feel about the Power Plenum Grille on the 4th Generation TL now?
11-21-2009, 01:57 PM
#42
Well lets look at some real numbers then. BMW 3 series sales in the US on a YTD basis have been increasing steadily from July. For instance, BMW sold on a YTD basis 50,834 units (no model changes) in July 2009 compared to 71,211 units on a YTD basis for the same period in 2008. The decline was 28.6% year over year. By October, the year over year decline has been reduced to 22.4% with 75,459 BMW 3 series being sold on a YTD basis to October 2009.
The TL is going the opposite way with YTD sales declines accelerating through the same period.
The TL sold on a YTD basis 35,756 units in July 2009 compared to 42,601 in 2008 representing a 16% sales decline. The July numbers look to be annual "model year numbers"). If you look on a YTD basis to October, there were 28,394 units sold YTD. That represents a decline of 29% over the 2008 YTD numbers. Acura sold 2,512 TL units in the US in October of 2009.
The TL is going the opposite way with YTD sales declines accelerating through the same period.
The TL sold on a YTD basis 35,756 units in July 2009 compared to 42,601 in 2008 representing a 16% sales decline. The July numbers look to be annual "model year numbers"). If you look on a YTD basis to October, there were 28,394 units sold YTD. That represents a decline of 29% over the 2008 YTD numbers. Acura sold 2,512 TL units in the US in October of 2009.
I have already been over possible scenarios as to why this is and I don't want to make it sound as if the other stuff is irrelevant but all brands go through their up and downs at different times for different reasons, the YTD which is from January of the current year is the only thing that matters in the end and there are virtually no 3G sales in there to alter the percentages up or down that everyone else loves to look at. It has nothing to do with bias or sugarcoating, it has everything to do with getting it straight.
Much like the monthly percentages, comparing YTD percentages lost or gained is largely dependent of how the vehicle did at this time last year and is also not a real indicator anything more than how much they are down or up at this point compared to last just like the monthly figures. It is also not an indicator of ugliness or how it is doing against it competition.
Here is the simple truth, outside of the ES and C class no entry priced luxury sedan has a commanding lead against anything else, YTD. I would say include the 3 sedan in that but BMW combines all total sales of 3 series vehicles together but it has to be up there also. Less than 4,400 units separate the rest. That includes the TL, G sedan, A4 (includes wagon, 09 convertible, and S5), CTS(V), and the IS(convertible, IS-F).
So the grill/style is what is keeping it from being a best seller but it is not keeping it from being a contender. Sales also do not indicate profit margins, what good is it if I blow my competitors away in sales but in order to do so I spend all my profits on advertising or cut into them with multiple incentives? I think Acura/Honda is content with where they are at in general and for this vehicle and that is good enough for me.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 11-21-2009 at 02:02 PM.
11-21-2009, 02:09 PM
#43
I do believe TLs would look far better with say pewter grilles and accents for the darker colors, instead of the shiny chrome.
11-21-2009, 02:39 PM
#44
Plain and simple if you do not like it don't buy it, the looks talk is old. I will say again I get more compliments in my 4th generation than I ever did in the 3rd. Take today for example at the gas sation this guy in a WRX could not stop staring at my car enter and exiting the sttaion and at the barber I was parked next to an 09 Accord the barber was outside checkinjg both out and came back in saying if the grey Honda was mine I was like yeh but it's a Acura he goes that shit is sweet love the combo and even complemented the grill then he goes to the guy driving the Accord yours is toobut his is better. The guy driving the Accord was clueless though because he taught Acura was American, I was going to say buddy Acura is a come up from Honda but I just let him stay in his fantasy. According to the barber comparing our cars is like day and night. They did a good job overall on the design it is an attention getter for better or for worse (to each it's own) and now the ZDX although pricer than I thought (see temple of vtec if you have not seen the released pricing) it is getting attention in a positive way from the media. To bad it looks like Ito is going to kill "keen edge dynamic".
11-21-2009, 02:41 PM
#45
Amen to that, the car i test drove was silver and a good match for the grille IMHO, looking at the car next to it (black) i could not help think how the Audi S4 grilles come in different colors to match the cars.
I do believe TLs would look far better with say pewter grilles and accents for the darker colors, instead of the shiny chrome.
I do believe TLs would look far better with say pewter grilles and accents for the darker colors, instead of the shiny chrome.
11-21-2009, 02:46 PM
#46
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
11-21-2009, 03:26 PM
#47
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.
So the grill/style is what is keeping it from being a best seller but it is not keeping it from being a contender. Sales also do not indicate profit margins, what good is it if I blow my competitors away in sales but in order to do so I spend all my profits on advertising or cut into them with multiple incentives? I think Acura/Honda is content with where they are at in general and for this vehicle and that is good enough for me.
So the grill/style is what is keeping it from being a best seller but it is not keeping it from being a contender. Sales also do not indicate profit margins, what good is it if I blow my competitors away in sales but in order to do so I spend all my profits on advertising or cut into them with multiple incentives? I think Acura/Honda is content with where they are at in general and for this vehicle and that is good enough for me.
11-22-2009, 01:03 AM
#48
I understand you are a "die hard" Acura fan but the numbers are really what they are... While many of the luxury brands are down between 28-30% YTD, some made impressive gains in October 2009 except for the Acura TL. In October, IS was up 10%, ES up 2.8%, Infiniti G down 7.5% and Acura TL down 44.2%. There is really no way to sugar coat this - the numbers speak for themselves.
11-22-2009, 03:58 AM
#50
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How would people feel if Acura simply paint matched the grill for the next model year? Would all be forgiven? Would Acura regain ground? I should create a poll but I'm too timid.
It occurred to me that I could simply demand that the dealer paint match the grill as a condition of buying the car so the TL has become a serious contender for my next auto purchase.
It occurred to me that I could simply demand that the dealer paint match the grill as a condition of buying the car so the TL has become a serious contender for my next auto purchase.
11-22-2009, 01:36 PM
#51
I would like to see Acura come out with a new center piece or modify it somehow, if that would help. You know the part of the grill that has the logo in it or what some like to call the beak. It is already removable and this would allow for current TL owners to take advantage of it also. Acura wouldn't have to change anything else either.
11-22-2009, 05:11 PM
#52
So is the Accord, is the Accord American? The brand is Japanese the transmission is shipped from Japan, Honda/Acura to save money on importing to help keep cost down, just decided to build some of their vechicles here doesn't make them American though they are still run by the Japenese.
11-22-2009, 09:14 PM
#53
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
So is the Accord, is the Accord American? The brand is Japanese the transmission is shipped from Japan, Honda/Acura to save money on importing to help keep cost down, just decided to build some of their vechicles here doesn't make them American though they are still run by the Japenese.
The Acura was designed here, is built here, is 85% part sourced here & the engine is built here. The car is not even available in Japan.
11-23-2009, 09:11 PM
#54
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was Jaguar an American car when it was owned by Ford & is it now an Indian car now that is owned by Tata? Was Saab an American car? Was Aston Martin an American car? Was Volvo an American car? How about Lotus & Lamborghini?
The Acura was designed here, is built here, is 85% part sourced here & the engine is built here. The car is not even available in Japan.
The Acura was designed here, is built here, is 85% part sourced here & the engine is built here. The car is not even available in Japan.
11-24-2009, 12:39 AM
#55
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's another strike against the power plenum, you can't even say "it's a big hit in Europe", we're the only ones that have to deal with it. It's kind of like they gave NA the middle finger and put a price tag on it.
11-24-2009, 08:44 PM
#56
Was Jaguar an American car when it was owned by Ford & is it now an Indian car now that is owned by Tata? Was Saab an American car? Was Aston Martin an American car? Was Volvo an American car? How about Lotus & Lamborghini?
The Acura was designed here, is built here, is 85% part sourced here & the engine is built here. The car is not even available in Japan.
The Acura was designed here, is built here, is 85% part sourced here & the engine is built here. The car is not even available in Japan.
The TL too was once a rebadge and was dogged for that they solved that now get the TSX and RL as exclusive and they would be all set, who cares about the platform sharing like everyone tries to make a big deal about, everyone does it.
11-24-2009, 08:46 PM
#57
China, Russia, Canada, Mexico and whatever other markets sell teh TL get the plenum also.
11-25-2009, 10:48 AM
#60
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
Age: 82
Posts: 7,674
Received 2,600 Likes
on
1,581 Posts
But hey I just learned somthing new.
Jaguars' are Indian while Volvo, Saab, Aston Martin, Lotus & Lamborghini were American for awhile & are changing nationality once again. Additionally Land Rover went from being an American car to Indian like Jaguar. Who would have ever guessed?
I am very happy to straightened that all out.
11-25-2009, 10:58 AM
#61
Plain and simple if you do not like it don't buy it, the looks talk is old. I will say again I get more compliments in my 4th generation than I ever did in the 3rd. Take today for example at the gas sation this guy in a WRX could not stop staring at my car enter and exiting the sttaion and at the barber I was parked next to an 09 Accord the barber was outside checkinjg both out and came back in saying if the grey Honda was mine I was like yeh but it's a Acura he goes that shit is sweet love the combo and even complemented the grill then he goes to the guy driving the Accord yours is toobut his is better. The guy driving the Accord was clueless though because he taught Acura was American, I was going to say buddy Acura is a come up from Honda but I just let him stay in his fantasy. According to the barber comparing our cars is like day and night. They did a good job overall on the design it is an attention getter for better or for worse (to each it's own) and now the ZDX although pricer than I thought (see temple of vtec if you have not seen the released pricing) it is getting attention in a positive way from the media. To bad it looks like Ito is going to kill "keen edge dynamic".
Please do some research.
11-26-2009, 12:09 AM
#62
אני עומד עם ישראל
Anyway, the grille has gone from me being hit with a football bat when it was first introduced to now it being a bit more tolerable.
11-26-2009, 03:12 AM
#63
Grandpa
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia, Besieged
Age: 68
Posts: 7,596
Received 2,609 Likes
on
1,475 Posts
What is a football bat?
11-27-2009, 09:47 AM
#67
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
11-29-2009, 07:51 PM
#68
Racer
No pics!
11-30-2009, 01:02 AM
#69
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
11-30-2009, 07:31 AM
#70
Grandpa
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia, Besieged
Age: 68
Posts: 7,596
Received 2,609 Likes
on
1,475 Posts
A couple of us are curious, but not curious enough to spend the money on it without knowing for sure what it'd look like. The only pictures we've found are the ones in the e-Store, which appear to show the midnight chrome grill and rear piece on a Palladium Metallic car.
We'd love to see some full-car images but nobody can find any.
11-30-2009, 09:01 PM
#71
Cruisin'
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would like to see Acura come out with a new center piece or modify it somehow, if that would help. You know the part of the grill that has the logo in it or what some like to call the beak. It is already removable and this would allow for current TL owners to take advantage of it also. Acura wouldn't have to change anything else either.
Agreed. I am looking to get just that piece painted to match the car. I really like the way that mod looks and even though I really don't mind the stock look, I have always wanted something custom like that.
All told, I really like the new TL. It's like nothing else out there. I am sick of all the cookie cutter BMW's and Audi's where I live and work. I shopped the G37xS and GS 350, but the TL won with it's combination of power, technology, and value. At first I wasn't the biggest fan of the grille, but I have grown to appreciate the way it flows with the rest of the car. I just walked in my garage to look again after reading the negative posts (I just got the car last night) and I said to myself, "WTF, this thing is sick!".
I drove a 2007 TL for the last couple of years and this is 10 times the car that was (hold the size jokes), I call it my "big boy car". That was for you, Mom.
Seriously though, this car stands out, it evokes emotion (for better or worse). Most ~$40k cars on the road can't say that they evoke anything, this car most certainly does. Just look at this forum and the debates that have ensued, I think that's awesome. Also, if you look back, similar debates have been going on with every redesign of the TL. It's got a loyal and passionate following and always has, there's a reason for that. They are great cars!
If you have one, enjoy! If you don't, be cool to your fellow Acura brethren.
11-30-2009, 09:07 PM
#72
Grandpa
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Virginia, Besieged
Age: 68
Posts: 7,596
Received 2,609 Likes
on
1,475 Posts
11-30-2009, 11:21 PM
#73
Racer
I bought mine from the dealer with the requirement that they get the beak painted. They did and it looks great. In a few more days I should be past my 15 day probation and able to post photos.
12-01-2009, 12:38 AM
#74
Cruisin'
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice, looking forward to the pics. I see we are in the same area, do you mind sharing the bodyshop that did the work? I'd like to get the work done somewhere that is familiar with the process and does a good job.
12-01-2009, 07:59 PM
#75
Cruisin'
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just an update for those who care. I went by the body shop my buddy works at and it turns out they do a lot of the grille work for 2009+ TL's for Acura of Bellevue. They gave me a great deal and I'm getting just the beak painted to match my vehicle. Should look pretty sick. I'm going to get the 3M clearmask stuff put on after the paint has cured for about 30 days so it will be chip resistant.
TechnoCat, I assume that you have the clearmask on your painted beak? (ok, wait, that sounded funny, you know what I mean). If not, you may want to look into it, the paint tech told me that the material they make the beak out of makes it more prone to chipping, FWIW...
I'll post some pics on the web as soon as I get the car back.
TechnoCat, I assume that you have the clearmask on your painted beak? (ok, wait, that sounded funny, you know what I mean). If not, you may want to look into it, the paint tech told me that the material they make the beak out of makes it more prone to chipping, FWIW...
I'll post some pics on the web as soon as I get the car back.
Last edited by skipdeez; 12-01-2009 at 08:03 PM.
12-01-2009, 09:24 PM
#76
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Just an update for those who care. I went by the body shop my buddy works at and it turns out they do a lot of the grille work for 2009+ TL's for Acura of Bellevue. They gave me a great deal and I'm getting just the beak painted to match my vehicle. Should look pretty sick. I'm going to get the 3M clearmask stuff put on after the paint has cured for about 30 days so it will be chip resistant.
TechnoCat, I assume that you have the clearmask on your painted beak? (ok, wait, that sounded funny, you know what I mean). If not, you may want to look into it, the paint tech told me that the material they make the beak out of makes it more prone to chipping, FWIW...
I'll post some pics on the web as soon as I get the car back.
TechnoCat, I assume that you have the clearmask on your painted beak? (ok, wait, that sounded funny, you know what I mean). If not, you may want to look into it, the paint tech told me that the material they make the beak out of makes it more prone to chipping, FWIW...
I'll post some pics on the web as soon as I get the car back.
I'm thinking of *maybe* just painting the strip of chrome that comes up on the hood.
12-01-2009, 10:20 PM
#77
Cruisin'
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For others in the NW, I will mention here that I am going to Kelly's Auto Body in Bellevue, WA. A good friend of mine works there and they do great work that is guaranteed for the life of the car. I'll send some pics when she's all done.
12-03-2009, 05:11 PM
#79
Cruisin'
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
http://twitpic.com/s0tdz
I'll post some better pics once I get the windows tinted tomorrow.
12-05-2009, 01:03 PM
#80
Cruisin'
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Emerald City
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not the best pic since it's in the garage and taken with my cell phone, but you get the idea. Looks A LOT better IMO. Acura needs to start shipping them this way, or at least give the option. Was really inexpensive to do, I love it!
http://twitpic.com/s0tdz
I'll post some better pics once I get the windows tinted tomorrow.
http://twitpic.com/s0tdz
I'll post some better pics once I get the windows tinted tomorrow.
http://cid-d8a8bb3b0f91ff9d.skydrive...se.aspx/Public
Let me know if you guys can't view that for any reason and I'll post them elsewhere.