crxb

http://www.vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=862942


be sure to vote

ssim3

Neg & Very Neg currently 65%

ll_22

I think it's somewhat unfair to judge from internet photos alone, it really looks better in person.

KeithL

I have the car just shy of 10 months and hate the grill as much as the day I got it, but my AWD ride makes up for it for now, but honestly I don't see me getting another Acura until they get their styling in order, IMO.

winstrolvtec

It is not all that bad when you look at how the negative vote, unlike the very negative, still has consideration for the car. If people don't like it but the other things it brings to the table are strong enough to sway them to buy one then it has potential to really only be a little over 30% who really dislike it with no consideration at all and that is no worse than any car for whatever reason(s) someone might not like a car in general.

Naturally they won't get all of those "negative" people who would still consider it but advertising and marketing, successful magazine comparos of the new 6MT, continued financing offers, and throwing in some incentives could really go a long way. That statistic really does represent a strong chance of this model being successful. It is up to them and the dealers, that is a lot of people on the fence who may just need a small push.

If they play those cards right and the more TL's that are bought and owned and seen driving around, where people can also get accustomed to it in person, while also having a semi popular affect, will have a huge affect in changing many perspectives.

Kingmeow

I wonder how a similar poll would look when the new 5-series came out back then?

ll_22

I'm sure Acura is paying people to find out whether they should stick w/ plenum or not.

bagbklyn

I'm thinking the same thing, the more I look at it's polarizing. I love the TL as whole but the grille's proportion is just out of wack. When you are out on the road look at any other car on the road and you will see on almost all of them the grille never comes up above the headlight. What makes Acura think they can re-invent the wheel when it comes to grille designs. And if you are going to re-invent just use the old one as a base and mod it slightly

jjsC5

If Acura needs to pay someone to find out whether they should stick with it or not, they have bigger problems than I thought.

4G Express

How is that reinventing?

bagbklyn

Check out the grilles on the vehicles in a parking lot or while you are driving. The top of the grille shouldn't come above the headlight. Acura is trying to reinvent the design of the grille to go above the headlight line. Check it out this isn't normal and its distracting to the eye, hence why so many hate the grille. If they would bring those lines down then it wouldn't be such a problem. When dealers paint the grille they color match it so it doesn't look like the grille rises above the lights, ronjon color matches the grille so it doesn't look like it is above the headlight.While few if any see if you can find a nice looking car with a grille that comes above the headlight? I think the only 2 I found were the PT cruiser and HHR, and I wouldn't exactly call those nice looking cars

chaiwala

This is getting old fast......

paz840

iTrader: (2)

bagbklyn

It doesn't help when you come out with a newer model and you make the grille look normal. Its like when Audi came out with its grille it made it for the A6 and then it gradually went across the whole entire line up. It was kinda forced upon the different models. We can clearly see with the ZDX this is not the case with the TL grille. I'm sure the grile's production run is short lived 2 more years tops.

davelien

Me, I just love that "beating the dead horse" graphic paz840!

crxb

Personally I like it. (admit I hated 1st time I saw it) - but - it helps it stand out and not just fade in the background w/ every other sedan out there. never had as many positive comments from strangers w/ any other car b4 (including my 3G)

DivinDude

The snow plow beak is causing me to end my new Acura delivery run at 6

Silva-type-s

iTrader: (3)

pics???????

chaiwala

I went to the doctor and he told me I needed to buy a different vehicle because the cheese grater on my TL has blocked my arteries and i need stents.

bagbklyn

Hilarious

BWSmith201

Seriously, it's grown on me. I too hated it in the first place. It wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it. I do sort of like the uniqueness of it- I see very few of them where I live.

TLNV

Could not have said it any better. I love that it does not look like any other sedan out there. So nice not to be looking in a mirror every time you pass any other brands sedan. The amount of "gorgeous car" and thumbs up is proof enough for me. Funny how it has grown on me as I don't even want to color match it now.

BEAR-AvHistory

The guy across the street has a white one, it has not improved with age.

chaiwala

Maybe it has something to do with age. My dad is 68 and he feels the same way. Its tough to get old.

Eoanou

The car has grown on me to a small extent, I saw a SH-AWD TL in white with no front plate the other day, it looked quite sleek at night and with the underbody kit, even better.

At first I hated it, but it has grown on me. I really wish it wasn't as large as it is, though. I really have no desire to drive something larger than my previous 3G as a daily.

BEAR-AvHistory

Your dad sounds like he is aging well, unlike the TL's grill.

He must be remembering another car with a distinctive polarizing grill that you did not see everyday on the road, the Edsel. Not seeing them everyday on the road became a major problem for Ford who really, really wanted to see them everyday on the road & was eventually forced to give up on them.

Hopefully the Acura TL will have a better future then the Edsel did.

Peters

With sales of the TL down 44% for the month of October 2009 compared to last year and down almost 30% year-to-date, it does not look like the TL is wining any customers over. Some of the decline is due to the recession for sure. But as other OEMs turn it around in September and October like BMW for instance, the TL seems to be losing ground. I think Acura are way off the mark with this car. To me, when you look at it in real life, both the front and rear look like a cartoon.

winstrolvtec

^It really depends on what your opinion of it is in the first place but the TL being down 44% or 29% YTD is not a clear indication of anything. October of last year was the first full intro month of the new TL and with that it saw a 22% increase from Oct the year before in 07 so that is what is skewing the #'s but as a whole and more on average the TL is down 29% and most popular models, some of which are selling really well in spite of the economy, are also down or nearly down 29%. The IS, C class and ES are just a few, the G sedan is even worse off, so it seems a lot of cars are losing ground.

It's great that many companies have pulled it together more recently but year end clearances, that Acura had months earlier, has a lot to do with it. As popular as the 3 is or how well it may be doing now, it's down 22.5% on the year and considering how much market they attract with only their name and all their model variances like coupes, wagons, convertibles, etc. while the TL only being a sedan and Acura limited in what types of vehicles they offer, with many people viewing it as merely a "fancy Honda", it's not all that bad for Acura or maybe it's really not all that good for anyone else either, depends on how you want to look at it.

Regarding the topic of the thread, the TL appears to have many folks on the fence that consider it a great car but are hesitant due to the styling. That doesn't mean it is automatically ugly or cartoon looking to those that fall in that category. What I was implying is that there seems to be a lot more consideration for the car in relation to the sales but the important thing to realize is the consideration is still there knowing well what it looks like in the first place. Short of tweaking the looks of the car there are things Acura could do to help themselves in the meantime and then when they finally do tweak it be it next year or at MMC that would also go a long way.

KeithL

Not true, last Oct the numbers were high becasue they were blowing out 08 TL at big discounts, the Oct 08 numbers were in no way indicative of the 4G TL, actually more on the sales of left over 08 TL. The 3G at its peak was selling close to 70K cars a year, not liekly going to happen with 4G. We can argue all day over design influence on Sales, we'll neve know for sure, but the G sold tons last month and it is in a comparable price point, although more cheaper G's are sold than TL.

GrigioTL

I understand you are a "die hard" Acura fan but the numbers are really what they are... While many of the luxury brands are down between 28-30% YTD, some made impressive gains in October 2009 except for the Acura TL. In October, IS was up 10%, ES up 2.8%, Infiniti G down 7.5% and Acura TL down 44.2%. There is really no way to sugar coat this - the numbers speak for themselves.

TechnoCat

I just bought (a week ago) a new TL SH-AWD 6MT. The grill is pretty ugly; I negotiated in painting it to match the car. And the whole car looks very Japanese (I drove nothing but Audis for the previous 12 years.) Not really a good exterior look - not nearly conservative enough for the competition in this price range. It looks more like a Mitsubishi or Subaru than a BMW, Audi, Lexus or Mercedes. (It could pass for a slightly uglier Infiniti though.)

I would have paid quite a bit more for a BMW 335i x-drive stick, but none were available. And Audi doesn't make a 6-cylinder AWD stickshift sedan below the S4, Mercedes barely imports sticks and won't put AWD in the C-class with a decent-sized engine, Lexus has no sports-sedans at all, Infiniti doesn't have AWD MT sedans, Subarus rattle at 5K and feel like they're made of hard plastic, I'm over 24 so I'm not allowed to drive Mitsubishi, and I haven't had enough head injuries to result in Saab or Volvo ownership... so the Acura won by default. As long as no-one recognizes me behind the dark tinted windows, it will be alright. (Repeat mantra as necessary to lower blood pressure.)

bagbklyn

Just looking back on this thread, many that have brought the 4g me included deal with the grille but its not our favorite part of the car and its not like we walked into the dealership and said I gotta have that grille. Its more like I guess for the car we can't change out the grille from the dealer so we deal with it.

xrays

I love the design! My car is beautiful and unique. Nothing else looks like it in the parking lot. I've gotten about a dozen unsolicited positive compliments from people in the past year. I've seen a few others on the road and thought they look sleek and stylish as they fly by. The ride is sweet!

winstrolvtec

Neither is untrue, the final 3G clearance and the 4G intro contributed to those sales, as far as I know there is no way to determine just how many was which or the other. What is undisputable, whether it was 3G or 4G sales, is that if the other brands had a near 25% increase on a single month from last year it would also look as if it was down 40% this year because they are almost all down roughly 30% on the year.

The 4G and just about every other luxury car would be lucky if they sold 50k units by years end given the economic circumstances and that would be for the most part the equivalent of what 70k units was 5 years ago. It is not as simple as the 3G sold this many a few years ago cause it's not a few years ago and the 4G is not the 3G. Lets say the industry average in percentage loss for YTD on a luxury car is 25% and in 08 Acura sold about 47k TL's then if they sell 35k units at years end, which they can easily do, then they are no worse off given the economy not to mention the now cross shopped TSX V6 and possibly even the Accord. I would hope a new model would do a little better than that but it's just for perspective. That is another discussion beaten to death a number of times already.

Good for Infiniti that the G as a whole is selling so well right now but as I have mentioned above Acura hurts itself by not offering the same amount of model variants. Perhaps if Acura had a coupe that would solidify it's sales as well but sedan vs sedan, the G can sell more now and be up compared to Oct of last year but it is still behind on total # of sales for the year compared to the TL. Infiniti as well as some other brands have a much later 10' release date, the sedan won't hit ground until Dec and that leaves them with more 09's to still clear out. They have done a better job with their incentives and discounts as well as inventory in some cases to this point. Acura started clearing out the 09 TL months ago and they also decided to take their time getting the 2010's out. No wonder why so many TL competitors are selling well right now.

I think you are misinterpreting the #'s. They would speak for themselves if everyone knew how to decipher them and that would save me the trouble and it has nothing to do with being an Acura fan. The other cars posted gains but how good or bad were their sales from last year to begin with? They could have sold 500 units in Oct of last year and this year sold 1,000 and they posted a 100% gain, so most say "oh wow, look how good they are doing, they posted a huge gain” but 500 units is not very good in the first place, in fact it's awful. The percentages up or down are a reflection of how it did in the past compared to now, it is not an indication of how well or poor it is actually doing, especially compared to anything else. It is possible to be up in percentage compared to last Oct and still be outsold on the year or the month or both as it is also possible to have outsold on the year and the month but be down compared to last Oct as demonstrated above.

That's what YTD is for and if you want to compare them you take the actual unit #'s and subtract. Since the #'s speak for themselves they are saying no more than that the TL had a killer month last Oct and this Oct was a below average one and they are saying the opposite for the other cars, it is really not an indication of anything else.

chaiwala

Peeps, it's simple. YES THE POWER PLENUM GRILLE IS AFFECTING THE SALES. If your dealer is going out of the way to color match the grill there is a reason for that. Every review I have read mentions the grill and there is a reason for that. Every automotive forum that talks about the 4G TL mentions the grill, there is a reason for that. I like to put it this way, the TL is this gorgeous woman with stunning toned legs that makes your head snap back to keep checking her out and then you realize that she has a parrot nose. Some people may still find her attractive but many would want her to have a rhinoplasty to establish a relationship with her. I fall on the latter.

Hanga Piko

That's a burn!

JAB00

Acura needs to fix the grille during the next refresh. The TSX has it the best executed. It is atrocious on the RL. It looks bad on the TL. Apart from that the TL has an awesome side profile. I really dig the back. If they could just execute the grille a little bit better, the TL would have sales up there with the G

Peters

Well lets look at some real numbers then. BMW 3 series sales in the US on a YTD basis have been increasing steadily from July. For instance, BMW sold on a YTD basis 50,834 units (no model changes) in July 2009 compared to 71,211 units on a YTD basis for the same period in 2008. The decline was 28.6% year over year. By October, the year over year decline has been reduced to 22.4% with 75,459 BMW 3 series being sold on a YTD basis to October 2009.

The TL is going the opposite way with YTD sales declines accelerating through the same period.

The TL sold on a YTD basis 35,756 units in July 2009 compared to 42,601 in 2008 representing a 16% sales decline. The July numbers look to be annual "model year numbers"). If you look on a YTD basis to October, there were 28,394 units sold YTD. That represents a decline of 29% over the 2008 YTD numbers. Acura sold 2,512 TL units in the US in October of 2009.

CraigMacDTA

I sell the damn cars and trust me - people HATE this new design...more often than not, they won't even go for a test drive, just based on the bloated size and retarded grille. People are choosing the A4, 3 Series, G37 to name a few. I'd say 75% come in a right away ask "what the hell where they thinking with this new grille". It's a shame really, cuz the "bread and butter" sedan is now an afterthought in most people's memories.

George Knighton

I don't know what to say about the grille. It is what it is, and I don't think we buy this particular vehicle because of what it looks like.

But what do I know.