draph

I'm looking for help from anyone with experience ordering a new Acura to provide insight on negotiating dealer cash into the deal.

The main question: Do incentives apply at the time of the deal or time of the delivery?

1 - From a manufacturer perspective, they want to sell cars, whether ordered or on dealer lots. From their point of view, it seems incentives should drive deals on any car sale, even sale of ordered cars that would help keep the production line "wet", or at least validate their current production plans if they already are planning on keeping at least one shift going regardless of sales volume.

2 - From a dealer perspective, they'd prefer to move the metal sitting on lots, given they are paying interest on that inventory.

Quotes I've received on a plan to order a car (my current lease ends in May) have mostly included caveats that "incentives change monthly and I can't provide a firm quote on an ordered car 2 months in advance".

While the above suggests Acura rebate policy is that the rebate applies at the time of the delivery, I still recall the deal I made on a Maxima 20th Anniversary with MT back in 2001. In that deal, I got the better of the incentives between the time of the order and the time of the delivery. The sales guy implied Nissan policy was rebate applied at the time of the deal, but then he said "if incentives are better at time of delivery, we'll just cancel the original deal at the time you ordered and strike a new deal based upon the better rebates when the car comes in."

I really liked that Nissan sales guy (would have gone with him again if Nissan offered an MT sedan I wanted) - Given the option to lock in incentives at the time of the deal, he could have left me in the dark with two opportunities to make more money for the dealer: 1. If rebates got better, he could have said "sorry, you signed up at time of order for that price, which is fixed" and pocketed the increased incentive money for the dealership, or 2. If rebates got worse, he could have said "sorry, the deal you signed up for was based upon rebates at the time which no longer exist" and pocketed the incentives that were locked in at the time of the deal.

If you went through ordering an Acura, I'd appreciate hearing how you worked your deal - was it a fixed price, was there a clause that allowed the selling price to fluctuate with rebates, or did you have an understanding you'd get the better of two options?

Right now, I have a deal set up with selling price allowed to fluctuate with incentives; and I'm concerned if the 2K dealer cash goes away, the dealer will seize the opportunity to make an extra 2K if they were actually able to lock in the incentives at the time the purchase agreement was struck.

I feel this dealer doesn't want me to know or feel I've been taken...so if I get a friendly Acurazine subscriber to PM me some evidence of a purchase agreement that shows rebates can be locked in, they may realize their mistake and verify with their zone rep they can, indeed, lock in rebates. Of course, that's under an assumption they'd like to keep me as a repeat customer.

Motorista

Draph, the 2k you are referring to is a dealer incentive, not a rebate to the customer. As such it is subject to the conditions that Acura specifies, and the dealer typically has no leeway. Over the (many) years that I have been buying Acuras, I've mostly seen these incentives strictly limited to cars delivered within the time frame of the incentive. Note that they are not linked to cars in stock: the dealer may well be able to order a car with the specs you need (or, more typically, swap it with another dealer) and the rebate will still apply *provided* that you take delivery before the incentive expires. So, I think your dealer is being honest with you, and your experience with Nissan may have been due to that manufacturer's different policy. Since you plan to buy the car in May, essentially you are taking the risk of Acura not renewing the incentive.

Colin

Dealer incentives come and go/. If the dealer cash 'goes away' then the selling price would probably rise accordingly. The dealer in question would not be 'making an extra 2K' in this case since the cost of the car went up too.

Unfortunately you cannot 'lock in' a lease rate or incentive at the time the product is ordered. It can only be applied at the time it's actually sold and the RDR (retail delivery registration) is done.

draph

Thanks for the thoughts. Without specific experience, though, we are just speculating (neither replier seemed to draw from specific ordering experience). While it is true in our contemporary consumer society, we are an impatient group (why many people pay interest on credit even for small purchases), there are still some of us who would rather wait and get exactly what we want. Incentive policy designed to only provide incentives to the impatient type of buyer could alienate those who prefer to wait.

It seems if Acura doesn't have the same policy Nissan had in 2001 with incentives, they risk alienating customers - would they rather have a buyer begin his ownership feeling he had to "settle" for a different color or missing feature in order to save 2K *now* before incentives expired, or would they rather have an owner start off with the exact car he wanted with the price commitment made at the time of the order? A scenario where the customer who ordered based upon a deal that then went up 2K during the wait time just doesn't bode well for a long term relationship between manufacturer and buyer, and probably dealer and buyer as well. Return rates might go up if incentive policies weren't designed to back potential buyers into a corner by forcing them to settle or pay more to get what you want.

The ultimate deal is one where the salesman sells the car at the highest price the customer is willing to pay, and that same customer feels he got the best deal he could get. Screwing ordering buyers over by changing incentive policy during a wait period on an ordered car destroys half of the ultimate deal equation in my book. If it happens to me, I likely won't like Acura for that alleged policy and the dealer for supporting it (and I might not trust the dealer the next time around, because I still feel that policy makes no sense from a manufacturer perspective, who just wants to sell cars, not just those on lots).

BTW, I made my purchase decision to go Acura instead of Infiniti because the deal got the TL price down to within $150 of my best Infiniti deal for comparably equipped cars. If the Acura deal goes up 2K, there will likely be buyers remorse, if not a little second guessing on my decision.

draph

Here's another thought: From a B to B perspective, when my company orders something to be sold retail, the price to my company is locked in at time of order.

With car dealerships, why would it be any different? It seems when a dealer orders a car from the factory, the price he pays would include the dealer incentives at the time of the order. Also, given a customer ordered car is sold immediately upon arrival, none of the hold back designed to cover interest on inventory gets spent. There's a second reason why people who are patient and order should be rewarded for making the dealer more money...

PsychDoc

Actual date of sale (i.e. delivery) is all that matters. I ordered my car in late Feb. '09 and I found that there was an additional $1000 rebate/holdback/or whatever they call it (doesn't matter to me...all that matters to me is what I'll end up paying). I went back to the salesman and said I was aware of this and that we needed to renegotiate the price. He said he was going to call me to tell me about this (who knows how true that is....we'll never know now) and immediately offered to lower my purchase price by $1000. I was satisfied and the deal was done. I had to take delivery by the end of March or that deal would have gone away. So I did take delivery the last day of March, paying for the car in full at that time. Ended up paying $34,480 for the FWD car in Palladium Metallic with the taupe interior.

Colin

Not speculating on my part. I work at a dealership. Believe me, it's as frustrating for us as it is for you.

draph

I appreciate your candor. All I can say now is please lobby the heck out of your zone sales reps to push up the corporate chain to change the policy. It makes the best sense for attracting and maintaining both types of customers. If Nissan can do it, so can Honda/Acura.

Maybe it'll get changed eventually, or maybe some bean counter in the CFO's office did a trade study and determined HoA saves 1.98 in return for "minor" alienation and loss of repeat business from customers who prefer to order and wait for exactly what they want and get it fresh off the truck. I admit I'm in the minority on this, just like MT drivers... I guess if Acura can only cater to one minority, I'm glad it's with a 6MT in the TL. I'm one of those people who would not have considered a TL if it only came in auto.

RocketTL2010

I am one of those people who would not have considered the TL w/o 6MT.

Colin

Believe me, I mention it every chance I get!

draph

Looks like I don't have to complain too hard yet...Edmunds reporting the dealer cash got bumped up 250 - good until 3/31. If year to year sales are still down in Mar compared to 2009, I suspect there won't be much of a change in April...when my ordered car will come in...