Agree.

The Accord's been growing bigger and heavier generation after generation, and same with the TL. This is definitely not the right way to go for auto companies that are calling for better fuel economy all the time.

 

Honda/Acvura needs to take notice of what Nissan did with the 7th gen Maxima. I'm a Maxima lover but after the 2003 Maxima thye made the car too big for my liking, then in 2009 they went back and resized the car making it just right IMO.
Your right by saying these car companies need to rethink the way they are heading. They need to take baby steps not leaps. Bigger is not always better.

 

+1000000

I originally wanted to purchase a coupe this go-round, but all the ones I was considering were "eh..."

I LOVED the coupe Acura, and was sad when they discontinued it.

Coupe TL w/ Tech & SH-AWD = <3

 

Actually I always thought Acura had the right size proportions with the 3rd generation. The 2004 TL was a little shorter then the 2003 TL but wider which I thought was the perfect size. Then Acura blows all numbers out with the 2009.

Now I'm also a BMW fan obviously and the 5 series has grown each generation. The 5 series E39 ended 2003 with a larger E60 in 2004, then even larger F10 in 2011 which now is virtually the same size as an older 7 series.

Next year the BMW 3 series will launch the new F30 which will be larger then the out going E92.

Can't seem to understand with all the news about fuel prices we're paying why car makers are avoiding leaner, greener and new lighter materials for fuel efficent cars.

One thing I would like to see is Acura using better quality leather and have more leather rather then just the inner seats. Lets wrap the entire seat.

 

Hopefully Acura has caved in to the negativity about the 5G's size increase, and go back to a "tighter" design, like they did from 2G to 3G. If Audi is their intended competition they should emulate the A6's (or even E-class's) size, not the new/bigger 5-series.

Unfortunately this is unlikely given the existence of the sub-TSX and TSX, leaving the 5G little room to shrink. On the bright side, the 3G TSX will likely get SH-AWD - hopefully with 6MT, which would make it a real spiritual successor to the 3G 6MT. Throw in a factory-supercharged dohc 3.0 v6 with 300+ hp and prestige will automatically follow

 

^this

 

349 bhp
7 speed automatic
Lane Assist
4 zone climate control
Power rear seats
HID high beams
Variable Cylinder Management
87 Octane gas recommended
Car monitoring/control system via smart phones
Dual Sunroof

 

 

While I would really like a much more efficient car with more MPG - I'd probably prefer not to go above 0-60 in 7 seconds. Most hybrids give you excellent acceleration so going hybrid shouldn't hurt you there. If I could get about a 220 HP car that went from 0-60 in about 6 seconds or less but got 30 city and 35 highway I'd be pretty darn happy. I want quick acceleration as I frequently get on freeways with very little on ramp distance and I tend to be an aggressive driver so I pass slow moving vehicles parked in the left lane. I'm almost always the fastest moving vehicle on the road but I almost never exceed 80 as I can be pretty much guaranteed a ticket if I do.

However I don't think Acura is getting that much pressure to make more fuel efficient cars. Just about any post in this thread is by someone asking why we can't have a 400HP car - the hell with MPG. I'm not sure who these people are trying to outrun, what happened to them as children or why they don't get a nascar vehicle if they need to go 140 MPH on a regular basis. I'm in the market for a 4 door sedan with pretty good pickup - I'm not looking to go beyond the thunder dome, I don't know any feral kids with deadly boomerangs and I'm not driving in a state, let alone a country that tends to let me drive more than 80MPH at the max. I've never thought - gee I might need to tow a double-wide home with my TL one of these days (up hill)- if only it was 400HP on my 4 door sedan. I'm not sure if people are aware but there are sports cars and F350 trucks available for those purposes. I do understand the desire to have a sedan/family car that handles the road with a little zip and fun however if you really need 400HP you might be looking at the wrong line of vehicles - then again perhaps it is I who is looking at the wrong line of vehicles as it seems more people on this forum want the 400 HP than the 30/35 MPG.

 

· 1970 Pontiac GTO
· Painted primer grey
· Glossy black steel rims with chrome hub caps
· Modified adjustable suspension with heavy duty rollbars
· Badass exhaust
· 650 hp GM create motor 572 with headers end electronic ignition
· Police rubber padded push bumpers front and rear
· Train horn
· Landing lights from an airplane
· Bumper sticker that says “cut me off I dare you”
Driving in New York is a lot like daring a bully to a fight and playing chicken at the same time. It pisses me off to no end when you have less than 2 car lengths between you and the guy in front of you when you are traveling 80+ mph and someone makes an aggressive move to get in front of you. A couple of times over the years I have held my ground and actually lightly bumped the idiot in front of me to get his attention. I am sure if I was driving my ultimate road rage car as I described above, not only would I not get cut off that many times, but the car would be intimidating enough to give people reason enough just not to try.

 

Nobody here asked for a 400hp BASE car. Though it would be nice if Acura were to have a 400hp OPTION engine for it's ADVANCED sport sedans.

Even with today's true luxury brands like BMW, MB, Lexus, and maybe Audi, they all offer a lame-performing BASE engine in their base cars (especially for those who are so scared of driving a high power 400hp car, and/or for those who bean-count the mpg number). But all these true luxury brands also look after the group of high performance enthusiasts who crave for high-power and high-performance cars such as the 420hp M3, 451hp C63-AMG, 416hp IS-F, 435hp S6.

Of course, those faint at heart should never even peek at those 400+hp machines, and remember these are all OPTION engines, not BASE engines.

Thus, there is no conflict here. Lame-car buyers go for lame base cars, and high-core-car buyers go for 400+hp machines. The lame-car drivers can continue to feel safe with the lame BASE engines, and can continue to enjoy the enormous fuel economy that comes with these lame BASE engines. Whereas the high-core-car drivers can continue to experience the thrills of their life time with the outrageous-powered OPTION engines.

Thus, a wide range of car buyers, with different needs and requirements, are being catered to. No car buyer is being left behind.

The world is totally different now. When I was still a kid, a 300hp car belonged to the exotic car category. Nowadays, a 300hp car is the norm, and a 400hp car is within reach for most.

However, with Acura lacking both a V8 OPTION engine and a high-power (330+hp) V6 OPTION engine, it's ability to fight in the luxury car arena is seriously compromised.

But this still doesn't dampen my hope for a future 350-400hp RWD DSG Acura sedan.

 

^ You nailed it exactly. For Acura to handle a 350-400+hp, they really need to consider a rear wheel drive setup. Front wheel drive will not cut it moving forward in competing with the Luxury brands of the world. Although they can easily obtain 350+hp if they incorporate turbos and not enter the V8 option to be successfull.

 

I don't know what Acura will do with TL. but I am pretty sure that in 2015. They will release the new NSX and it's promised to beat the GT-R and those muscle cars out there.

 

The car itself drives very nice, handles well and has decent power.

An increase in power is always nice but what it really needs IMO is:

---Better styling

---Become a true mid-size sedan with larger cargo capacity and/or a fold down seat (near compact cargo capacity in a mid-size vehicle is unacceptable)

---More comfortable rear seating

---Better quality materials/build (ie:better quality speakers, less squeeks/rattles, etc etc.)

 

I agree w/ a few of those points, I also think they should push the envelope when it comes to tech and multimedia.

I looked at my archaic blackberry's music player. It looks elegant, displays most necessary info, and also displays the album cover. The TL's system looks like a menu that pc's used to have decades ago. It moves slow as heck and only displays text.

Phonebook integration should also be looked at. It doesn't automatically update your contacts, so you must update them manually, which is a huge hassle. Also, make it so that if you make a call on your phone, it automatically routes to the BT wireless system and doesn't need you to press "transfer".

Make it so that the music continues to play when you shut off the car, but turns off when you open the door. I hate it when I park, but i'm still listening to a radio program or song, and I need to turn off the car, then press the start button another 2 times to get it to turn back on.

The armrest/console area is awkward. the "U shaped" thing just doesn't work. There's also no passthrough from the armrest storage to the little sliding cubby so you need to use the passthrough hole that is under the armrest, inconvenient. Just make it a normal armrest and make it so that it slides, and stops after it covers 1 cup holder (like every other sliding armrest), and make a tray in the center console that can hold the phone/mp3 player. Also, make it so that the armrest can open towards the driver, and backwards.

Have a dedicated rubber pocket that can fit a smart phone where it can lean back so it's tilted towards you, or just top something with a rubber material so you can have it face up and not have it sliding around.

Door/map pockets are useless for anything outside of sheets of paper folded in half or to go menus. The "bottle" holder can barely fit ONE 500ml costco water bottle. My 06 civic can easily fit 4-5 of them.

Dedicated coin holder. Yes, many places still use and require coins. If the small compartment in front of the shifter is supposed to serve that purpose, it was a poor decision since it gets partially blocked by the shifter when in park and is awkward to scoop change out it. Try a compartment under the VSA buttons that can open/close and stay relatively hidden. It would make it easier to get change, etc.

I'd say that improving the rear seating area should be a top priority. I was surprised to see that the rear seating area of the TL is mostly a "spec sheet winner" and actually pretty uncomfortable in real life. The driver and front passenger can't have the seat reclined at all or moved back, otherwise the knee room disappears completely for the 2 rear seats. Foot room is pretty bad. The middle seat is non-existent. The rear headrests are awkward. All the exterior size doesn't translate to much comfortable/useable rear seating spaces.

Stronger leather. Many owners are experiencing very early wear and tear on their leather.

Rear visibility is also pretty bad due to a high rear deck. Either lower it or put back up sensors with an off button standard.

Make the car shorter. I don't know where all the length goes (small trunk.. small rear seating spaces..), but i'm sure there are ways to shorten it.

Make a dedicated trunk tray for the Base. The base's trunk is relatively flat, however, the stupid cut-out ridge for the SHAWD makes it difficult to roll or move things around the trunk. We could have done with just 2 small breaks in the lines so it could fold, instead of having a useless ridge there.

Road noise, always has been, and still is, an issue. Fix it. Wind noise is fine though.

This is a $40k car, less hard plastics, especially in the noticeable areas. Any area I normally touch should be soft. The door handle and the lower dash side pockets are the biggest offenders.

Brighter interior illumination. The front footwell ones are too dim, even when on the highest setting. Also, stock white license plate lights. It was sad that I needed to go to ebay to get license plate lights for my $40k+ car.

anyways.. just a few observations of mines. Those drawbacks or complaints are part of why i'm not blowing more $ getting a 2012, and will either wait for the 5gtl, 2grdx, or some type of hatch if they make it.

 

I would also change the logic of the "auto" headlights, not just the tl, but all hondas and acuras with HIDs. These aren't quick on/off lights, they require time to warm up.

The way honda/acura system works is that, if you put it in auto, and it's dim enough outside, the hids will turn on if you unlock the car or open a door. They stay on for the time you set or if you close the door. The problem here is when i'm loading/unloading stuff from the car, the lights are on.. and off.. and on.. and off.. Then they do a another quick dim/flicker when i push the button to turn the car on. That's a lot of stress for the hids to take from just getting stuff from my car.

An EASY way to solve this, would simply be to have an option in the MID for the parking lights and/or fogs to turn on when you unlock the car, and the hids turn on when you take the car out of park. Instead of possibly damaging the hid's over the long run and needing a costly replacement down the line.

this system isn't a problem for cars w/ halogen btw

 

I also forgot split folding rear seats. Though it wouldn't be possible for the SHAWD model due to the differential hump. The passthrough is useless for anything that isn't ski shaped/sized.

 

Here has a lot of good point of view!!

 

what exactly is wrong with the speakers?

 

I forgot to mention intelligent (adaptive) cruise control.

 

There may not be any new Acura models if the economy collapses. Just a thought.
There has been a lot of bad news in regards to the value of the dollar as of late. If interest sky rockets, it will make it easy to pay off any loans though.

 

Jon Ikeda designed the 2004 TL and was also responsible for the TL refresh. I'm assuming he's the same guy that designed the 09 (couldn't find that information anywhere). He's chief.

 

+100000

Even bringing home a rake from Home Depot presents its challenges. For some reason the "thin" diameter of the rake handle barely passes through the pass-through, and it has to stick out in the middle of the cabin to annoy my right hand trying to shift. And plywood? Forget about it.

I have to admit, the split folding rear seats is one of the things I miss in my TSX.

 

You must be assuming wages go up with inflation to help pay off those loans...I don't see that happening - more likely stagflation repeated from the Carter years.

...and to stay on topic:

- Keep the 6MT.
- A new more powerful, more fuel efficient engine, but not at the expense of reliability (don't come out with direct injection and turbocharging until you can get 300kmiles with few problems like the current powertrains).
- No hybrid unless seamless transition (ie no more trade-offs to the driving experience of a sport sedan like the electric steering feel and fwd architecture) and reliable without the expense of added weight and cost.
- Keep bucking the marketing trend of more gears = "better". Keep it so your engines have flatter torque curves so you don't need 20 gears to keep it in a narrow power band unless narrow power bands = significantly better fuel economy (which doesn't appear so with Nissan VQ engine in the real world).
- Keep a fully loaded SH-AWD 6MT well under 50K.

If Acura can't keep its products in the value zone (reliable, less expensive), they will lose whatever market differentiators they have left. More expensive and less reliable without the cache of a German brand name spells disaster for Acura. If they really want to go that direction, then I recommend they invest in rwd and go "all in" with their engineering resources for technology and detail design (and maybe even a 3rd party aesthetic design house).

IMHO, Acura purists might appreciate an Audi-like interior, detail design and fit and finish, and 30 more horsepower, but not if it means an Audi price and Audi reliability.

 

Good list and great job guys.

I'll try to contribute in a meaningful way!

I would:
-------------Style------------------------
1) keep the evolution of the 2012 MMC and continue to shorten the car another 2-3 inches. Reduce overhangs byincreasing the wheelbase a little and cutting some inches.
-------------Performance----------------
2) Keep the 6AT/6MT, they are effective tranny imho and they got good praise from reviewers so it seems good.
3) Less rusty rotors and calipers with a lightweight 2pc in the front and rear, add in lighter wheels so the suspension works less and the ride is smoother. Acceleration, handling and braking will be improved as well without touching the engine, the gearing or the exhaust. We can easily get another .2-.3 shaved off without too much work and the whole sport in sport sedan will improve at the same time.
4) Enhance the exhaust by upgrading the j-pipe or the whole exhaust. Not necessarly like the one from XLR8 as it might be too noisy for the common folk. It could easily produce a good 10-15 hp/ 10-15 tq more IMHO. Half the XLR8 j-pipe gains and I'm sure the noise increase would be minimal and welcomed (more sporty and all that.
5) Reconfigure SH-AWD to work more as a RWD.
6) Continue to work on the steering feel. It's getting better but keep it up!
--------------------Ameneties----------------
7) Blown-proof speakers
8) reduce the packages to Tech (with the cooled seats and BSI) and move the wheels to the SH-AWD package.
9) flat trunk floor with 13-13.5 cubic feet of space. More useable space.
10) A real 3rd seat in the back. It is a midsize so more utility room please.
11) Keep the excellent front seats.
12) Continue to improve on the tech gadgets. Let the RL be the real cruiser for people in their 50-60s. We want a midsize sports sedan for people that love the gadgets.
13) Continue to reduce road noise.

If we look at that, there are few very costly features, I see more and evolution than a revolution!

 

1) 3rd gen was the perfect size. I feel the new one is too bloated. While I agree with you, I'd be willing to bet an increased wheelbase/decreased overhang would screw up trunk space significantly, which would make #9 impossible. Or.. am I misunderstanding something here?
4) I'm sure an exhaust note like the Nissan/Infiniti VQ series would be a welcomed addition among Acura buyers.
5) As wonderful as that would be, Honda/Acura can't do that without making the Accord RWD, which will never happen.
7) Not sure why car mfgs aren't doing this.. stereo receivers prevent speaker blowout by limiting low end frequencies as the volume increases. Hell, my Panasonic shelf system from 2000 had this.

I know nothing about #3, but I agree with every other one of your ideas. Draph makes excellent points as well.

@wakattack - I really doubt Acura would quit developing new cars. If they do that, buyers would likely switch to other lux vehicles instead of switching to Honda. The majority of lux lovers will not go down market. Also, would you rather pay 1.9% with Acura financing for a 2006-2011 CPO TL, or 6.9% for the same car through your local bank? Your logic is backwards.

 

The following represents wishes more than predictive expectations...

After more than a decade of ignoring the market, last fall I started gathering information online (only) about mid-size, upscale sedans. So, I apologize for any glaring errors of ignorance. Some of what follows is informed by comments found online rather than first-hand observations.

I am coming from Mazda Millenia S (nee Amati 500) with the "Miller cycle" supercharged/intercooled 2.3L, 210hp, V6 engine. On the whole, in the mid/late 90s I considered this a better car than the Legend and gen-1 TL. For predominantly highway driving, a hybrid is not attractive, and 50-80 is more important than 0-60, for which near 7.0 seconds would be acceptable. Highway mileage and road noise are very important. Driver head room of at least 38.0" is required, which eliminates the TSX, 3-series with sunroof, all Lexus (except HS), M-B C/E, Volvo, VW, and many other mid-size sedans. A foot-actuated emergency/parking brake is close to a deal killer, too.

I was suprised at how the weight and horse-power had grown in this segment. However, I was glad to see that with the G25(x), Infiniti had introduced a more sensible, smaller V6. A priori, I had drawn up a short list of "ideal" specs: ~3.0L V6, ~250 hp, ~3500 lbs, FWD or AWD, ~20/30 mpg, 6+speed dual-clutch auto, > 38" driver headroom, < 66 dBA @70 mph, < $40k. Brakes, handling, safety and reliability are other top concerns. The premium gasoline requirement even without forced induction is a relatively minor hurdle as long as mileage is good.

I also was suprised to see that the TL was a bit behind in some mechanical areas (e.g. SOHC, 5-speed transmission), although the SH-AWD technology is class-leading. So, I was happy to see the 2012 TL update address the transmission, road noise, overhangs, and gas mileage (with the base 3.5L low-friction enhancements). The car's weight and width remain concerns. It is more than four inches wider than the Millenia, which I fear will be problematic on occasion for entry/exit in parking lots.

General:

• Maintain a good balance of luxury, sportiness, reliability, value.
• Back-off the size and weight creep. Improve gas mileage.

Driver visibility and controls:

• Height adjustable review mirror with minimized view blockage (i.e. no buttons or other junk hanging below the mirror itself).
• Left and right rear cameras, to assist backing out of parking places when surrounded by view-blocking vehicles.
• HUD.
• Carefully eliminate glare on instrument panel and LCD screen.
• Dark dash and rear deck to minimize reflections and glare.
• Minimize shiny chrome and glints.
• Controls accessible by feel (mixture of knobs and buttons).
• Do not intermix the A/C, audio and navigation controls.
• Back-off steering wheel button creep. It should be hard to hit anything accidentally. Mute should be the only audio control.

Luxury, Comfort and Convenience:

• Refinement and attention to details.
• Further minimize road/wind noise. Eliminate squeeks and rattles.
• Power-adjust steering column (with memory and entry/exit auto-tilt).
• Stronger leather (skeptical about the longevity of perforated).
• Storage compartments under the door arm rests.
• Improved trunk capacity (room for after-market subwoofer enclosure).
• Automatically switch air recirculation upon going into reverse, to prevent pulling exhaust gases into the cabin.
• Ventilated front seat option in base model. (Florida edition?)
• Rear sunshade.
• Photo-voltaic powered cabin ventilation when parked.

Mechanical:

• Brakes can never be too good.
• Steering and handling can never be too BMW-like.
• Better weight distribution.
• Adaptive and tunable suspension.
• Dual clutch transmission (6-8 speeds).
• DOHC, direct injection, possibly forced induction.
• High-mileage engine with the SH-AWD model.

Electronics:

• HD radio.
• Physical controls (touch is ok, but NOT touch only).
• External screen peripheral interface.
• The reports of blown speakers are disconcerting (though installing after-market drivers is ok when upgrading to a McIntosh amplifier).

Exterior:

• Curvier body panels (a la Jaguar and Millenia).
• Low drag coefficient (where are these numbers published?).
• Minimize shiny chrome.
• Higher (more effective) position for side molding.

Dreamier stuff:

• Ground effects.
• Fully active suspension (e.g. Bose).

Indifferent:

• Ever more power and/or a V8.
• Hybrid version.
• Coupe version.
• Heated seats (Florida).
• Dual-zone A/C.
• Roomier rear seats.
• Fold-down rear seats and/or trunk pass-thru.
• Automatic windshield wipers.
• Adaptive cruise control.

Undesirable:

• Any 4 cylinder engine.
• RWD (poor wet traction).
• Foot operated emergency/parking brake.
• Non-emergency radio emissions and radio actuated controls, e.g. remote start.
• Push button start, immobilizer.
• 19" or 20" wheels.

 

a bit off topic..but the should bring back 2doors... i heard they dropped it because it wasnt as luxurious as they want to be. but mercedes has it so does bmw.. i dont understand y cant acura

 

I have an 04 6MT that I love and is still going strong. Took a look at the 2012 6MT options and was very disappointed:

Only 1 option for 6MT, SHAWD and Technology package and that puts the cost around $45k plus, also ventilated seats not available on 6MT (WTF!)

6MT Color and interior options suck (only 4 options and black interior is only option)

Wish List for 5G:

6MT available without SHAWD
Add Ventilated seats to Tech Package
Offer more exterior and interior color options (What happened to blue?)

I don't think the TL should be a $40k plus car, what was great about the 3G, you got a lot of value and a fun to drive car for $33k. Cost right now for fully loaded is around $50K, no thanks!

 

Found this rendering of an Acura 4 door. Could this be a hint of what the 5G might look like?

 

nice. only time will tell what the new TL production model will look like.

the hints of where acura styling is going will be unveiled today in detroit. live unveiling on webstream around 2:30p.

if it's gonna look like that rendering....i might be back in the market for a TL. or i'll just keep my 3G and save myself the car payment.

 

Assuming it continues to be based on the Accord platform, the stories circulating are calling for it to be reduced in exterior size somewhat. I'd expect something between the 3G and 4G in exterior dimensions, closer to 4G in interior capacities, a bit lighter than the 4G with the new 3.5 motor and e-SHAWD in the AWD models.

As someone said, we'll see hints about Acura's future styling direction this afternoon with the unveiling of the sub-TSX ("ILX") and the new NSX.

Just please keep the 6MT option alive in the TL!

 

I would like to see a leaner body style, but unlike some do not want curvier maxima like sheetmetal. I like the precision of Acura's styling so I hope that they can continue to perfect edgy styling that lends towards the brand's focus on technology.

On a side note... selfishly, I'd like to not see it for at least 2 years. I'd like to not be tempted to purchase a new one. Lol.

 

Depends, I think, on sales, strategy and acceptance.

For instance, the 2012 MMR was released early (in the spring instead of the fall). This was, I believe, in response to slow sales and poor public reception.

Normally the 5G would release in the fall of 2013 (2014 Model Year). But if sales don't move, it could come early.

 

Eww. This looks like someone started with a VW Beetle and photoshopped the hell out of it.

 

Take a look at the new ILX and NSX introduced at today's Detroit Auto Show press event. Very nice styling indeed, in my opinion, and reflective of further fine tuning of Acura's current styling trend. ("Future vehicles" at acura.com).

 

Also posted here: https://acurazine.com/forums/automotive-news-6/

 

Overall, I really like the ILX. I don't like the rear end styling though... it is more Infiniti and less Acura than I would like. Similarly, the redesigned RDX is nice, but I can't help but think of the Toyota Venza when looking at it closely. The NSX is awesome.
http://www.acura.com/future

 

I'd like to see a little more aggression in the front end, love the current rear
305hp is plenty, they need to do a better job with the auto getting it to the wheels
Paddle shifters moved to shifter knob on thumb side, just a rocker for up/down
Computer needs to flash current radio station or song title on map
Voice control needs improvement for audio/phone control

 

The 2012 Mid-Model-Cycle (MMC) TL was released dead on time according to the Acura release schedule.

Since the TL model cycle is set by Acura to be at exactly 5 years, the MMC TL was and still is always released at exactly 2.5 years away from the release date of the 1st year model cycle; no matter how good or how bad the current model TL is selling.

The 1st 4G TL (MY '09) was launched in Sept '08, and the 4G MMC TL (MY '12) was released dead on time in March '11 (which is exactly 2.5 years apart). The 5G (MY '14) is expected to be released in Sept '13, if all goes well (i.e., no earthquake, no double economy slowdown).

So 2.5 years duration for the 1st half of the 4G model cycle, and another 2.5 years duration for the 2nd half of the 4G model cycle. These add up to be exactly 5 years which is a complete model cycle for the TL sedan.