Treblig

Ease the pain, go drive them both.

BLEXV6

Do you really think 85% of the TLs are the front wheel drive version? I actually see more SH-AWD models. Maybe in Canada the AWD option is more sought after due to the weather.

docboy

Same here. I had 2009 IS250 AWD for a whole 4,000 miles before I traded it in for the TL. Too dam uncomfortable and crap of a car, I got bought by the whole "Lexus comfort and prestige" crap. The two faced mermaid siren of the IS is it's exterior looks, name brand, and ventilated seats. When it comes time to replacing my TL and my wife's vehicle, it will not be a Lexus.

OP, do yourself a favor and avoid Lexus at all costs. I would stick with Acura, Audi, or BMW.

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

Thanks

Agreed

By this same logic the TL is then a glorified Accord. Lexus seems to offer a much broader range of cars from the soft ES to the sporty IS F and supercar V-10 LFA so it depends on what a person wants.

Yes per Acura that is the allocation. Less than 5% are manuals.

Capt_Crunch

I've been back and forth. Drove both and I agree with most everyone here that the TL has the advantage on sport feel while the ES has it on the luxury feel. Both are great cars. I finally decided to swallow the fact that Acura made the dumb mistake of getting rid of the deep blue color and camel interior (that's what I have today in my 2005 TL) and will see what kind of deal I can get on a 2012 TL 2WD Advance package. I wish they kept the wood accents but I still like the carbon fiber.

I am leaning towards the Graphite with Ebony interior. Although, if it wasn't for the mileage drop and added cost I also really like the Mayan Bronze with Umber interior.

Treblig

I think you will be happy with the TL in either color combo.

SeismicGuy

A bit late to the party here but in mulling over what to get my wife to replace her 2000 TL the Lexus ES350 just entered the picture. Back in 2000 when we were shopping around for a car to replace her 1990 Maxima, the TL was much more of a no-brainer since it was clearly underpriced at the time considering that it was offering everything the ES300 had an more for at least $4,000 or so less. Also, when we looked at the ES in 2000 it was one of the most uncomfortable car-shopping experiences I have ever had (the Lexus salesman was obnoxious and extremely aggressive which left a sour taste in our mouths).

On the other hand, our best friends are on their third ES now (1999, 2002, 2005) and they have loved the Lexus experience. So today, since the Lexus dealer was right next to the Acura dealer we were at we decided to give the ES another look.

In a nutshell, price looks to be a coin toss with both the TL and ES350 within really just a few dollars of each other comparing the same features. The ES had a couple of more bells-and-whistles (like the auto-telescoping/tilt steering wheel and the rear sunshade) and the choice of colors is certainly much more interesting than the anemic few that Acura offers. Also, the bit of wood trim that Lexus has in their interior seems tasteful (that was the first thing my wife complained about--she loves the wood trim in her 2000 TL which is totally gone for the 2012).

The drive of the ES was pretty nice but of course not as sporty feeling as the TL.

It is too bad that there are not really as many compelling reasons to choose one over the other as there were back in 2000. I am still leaning towards the TL though.


Doug

g37guy01

I drove a 2011 es 3 times. More tech than i needed in the car. It gets you from point a to b with no mess no fuss. The Lexus expierience is unmatched in this class anfd hold it's value very well.

I would get the es over the base Acura, but would get the shawd model over the es. I ended up with the g.

TRC101

ES350s are nice, but they seem like an Old Man's car (IMO).

SeismicGuy

It's funny but when my wife and I were talking with the Acura dealer internet sales guy and told him we were also thinking about the Lexus, without skipping a beat he looked at us and said "we were too young to be driving a Lexus". The irony here is that while neither my wife nor I look our age, it is still obvious that we are on the downhill side of middle-aged and he knew it.

I have to say that the latest facelift for the ES350 has been an improvement and it almost elicits a bit of excitement (at least more so than for the previous designs).


Doug

Prime Mover

Psychology 101, those car salesmen are a tricky bunch.

TampaJim

I drove both, along with LOTS of other vehicles, just to be fair to myself. I think I checked out every Lexus, Infiniti and Acura in production. I came straight back home after "trashing around town".

I bought my seventh Honda/Acura in a row ... a 2012 TL Advance in Graphite Gray Metallic with Ebony interior. IMO, the choice wasn't close - but, of course, I am nuts for my Honda toys.

FWIW, the new TL rocks.

Linmk2

A year ago when I was shopping for a new car, I did drive a Lexus ES. The prices and final deals were very similar. Both cars had their high and low points. I thought the Lexus had a higher quality interior. The car was very pleasing to drive with a smooth and quiet ride. Yet the exterior styling was bland. The performance, while OK was just that, OK. In the end, I enjoyed the driving experience the TL gave. The Acura seemed much more spritely both in acceleration and handling. The Acura is unmistakably Acura in appearance. The current TL, at least the 2011, looks like no other car for better or worse. I like to be different. Lastly, the Lexus dealer was 100 miles away, while an Acura dealer is a 30 minute drive. If I had to do it all over again, I still would not change my mind. I'm happy with my TL.

SeismicGuy

Sort of my sentiments also. I believe the Lexus servicing experience is a notch above Acura. Our friends who are on their 3rd ES keep raving about the customer service. For example, Lexus voluntarily replaced a set of tires without being asked (apparently Lexus thought the tires that came with the car were too harsh). Also, small things like cookies, coffee, nice waiting areas when you bring the car in for servicing are niceties.

However the blandness of the marque has always been the reason I could never get excited, at least for the model that fit our needs and budget. I do like the IS but that is a bit smaller than we want.

The main disappointment with the present TL are the lack of many color choices and Acura's decision to remove all traces of wood (faux or otherwise) from the interior. I thought that the greyish colored wood that they were using in the original TL-S models looked pretty sharp. Oh yeah, the automatic tilt/telescoping steering wheel in the ES was really something that should have been in the TL as well. Finally, I thought it was a nice touch with the ES that for a few bucks more (about $200) you get a real spare mounted to an alloy wheel.


Doug

reddogTL

While I haven't driven an ES350, I have rode shotgun in an ES330 and I remember it being a quiet smooth vehicle. I have test driven the IS250 AWD and IS350 and personally could not fully get comfortable in the IS series because I'm a big guy. I dont have experience with the Lexus service departments but ever since I bought my TL in feb. 2007 all of her service appointments(except for when i replaced the tires last winter) were at the dealer I bought it from. They have voluntarily replaced my battery because they said it was testing lower than normal voltage without charge.(not a comparison to replacing a full set of tires nonetheless) The waiting area always has donuts, bagels(butter & cream cheese), coffee, and bottled water. At least in the morning it does, in the afternoon the customers usually raid the food and all that is left are the crumbs lol

under9hell

I love Lexus' service department. One time my girlfriend complained about some small scratches after the oil change, the service adviser immediately had the car detailed and sent an apology letter later, wow!
I drive around in the TL but on out of town trips Lexus is the best!

SeismicGuy

My wife and I are frequent passengers in our friends Lexus (1992 then 1999 and now 2005). They always drove nice and smooth although I seem to recall that one of the ones they owned developed a clunking sound in the rear. Until the 2005, the interior of the ES didn't compare with our 2000 TL. Their 2005 if better and the 2011 I saw yesterday is virtually identical to their 2005.

The main disappointment I have with Honda is that is that they have not dedicated themselves as much as Toyota or Nissan have in establishing their luxury division. It is ironic since Acura was really the first high-end Asian brand but they just seem to have gotten lost along the way. For example, first they drop the name of their iconic model (Legend) and then models suddenly appear and just as quickly disappear (Vigor, CL). Also, their current highest end model (RL) just hasn't seemed to keep pace with comparable Lexus and even Infiniti models.

They really need some sharper marketing folks at Honda imho.


Doug

JM2010 SH-AWD

I'm very happy with my TL, especially all the performance parameters (including gas mileage, surprisingly).

Shortly after my purchase, I received my new customer survey. My observations were mainly about the quality of some interior surfaces. I love the seats and the dash and the upper door panels are fine. I do see some cost-cutting in lower door and dash surfaces and especially the carpeting and mats. I was driving a '92 Legend Coupe (in really fine shape), and I have to say that the Legend's carpeting and lower surface panels were of a higher, more luxury-laden quality.

I hope to see Acura stepping up these parts of the car, but in my mind these are pretty minor points. The basics of the car -- handling, road feel, acceleration, ride -- are all spot on, and that's where Honda engineering really shows itself.

A good friend just bought a new ES350 and it's a beautifully finished, very quiet and smooth riding car. But it just doesn't excite me much.

SeismicGuy

I agree with all the points. Where Honda has failed is in the tooting-your-own-horn department and in their lack of commitment to the brand (compared with how Toyota promotes Lexus and Nissan promotes Infiniti). This especially shows up in the advertising campaigns. Toyota has done a very nice job of finally linking Lexus comparisons with Mercedes, and the latest generation of Infiniti ads on TV really grab your attention. When it comes to Acura--not so much! I can hardly even recall an attention-grabbing Acura ad or even that many ads in general.


Doug

TampaJim

I think it is great that Honda doesn't spend much on marketing people and flashy ads ... those add to the price of the car, but not the quality.

In addition, it is nice to have a luxury vehicle without the attached stigma.

Best of all, my friends don't ask to borrow money, simply because they realize I can't afford it. Heck, I can't even afford a nice Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes-Benz or BMW - much less to loan money. IMO, that is a serious benefit ...

g37guy01

I quit thinking about "stigmas" 20 years ago. I could give a rats @@@@ what people think of what I drive. I also don't care how many other brand x's are on the road. I drive what I want to drive.

pickler

my friend has a camry oops i meant '11 ES350 and we both secretly hate each other's cars (he my TL and I his ES). trouble is his car is not any faster than mine (being 8 years younger still) and it is unbelievably boring. reminds me of a 1998 corolla i used to own. However i really like lexus' reliability and quality parts. i'm not sure if lexus is still the same as a decade ago, but i loved toyotas back then. supras, corollas, mr2, Celicas, lexus es300. i'm not sure lexus\toyota now is anything like the lexus from those days. While honda has not really broke any grounds either i prefer the '12 TL to the ES350 only because of its fun to drive factor.

i would buy the ES350 if i want
- good gas mileage
- torquey and refined v6
- light weight
- comfortable soft ride

i would get the tl if i want
- good handling\roadholding
- best all wheel drive system
- fun to drive car
- cheaper if similarly equipped

Linmk2

Like comments in the above post, if I have any gripes about the TL it is about the quality of the lower door panels and some of the dash components. While I would expect cut cutting on a car that costs half as much as the TL, but not on a car the cost 40,000+. The interior parts the Lexus come off much nicer. However the center stack for some reason reminded me of a tombstone. I have no idea why. The exterior of the TL have perfect shut lines, the door handles and trim all appear to be first rate. The interior, much of the plastic, looks and feels like plastic. All cars have a great deal of plastic in the interior, but some of the quality of the plastic of the TL seems, well somewhat low quality. I worked at an Acura dealership when the car was first introduced in the U.S. and I understand the comment about the carpet and mats. One item that wins hands down in the ES350 is the tilt wheel. I have no idea why Honda designed such a awful tilt wheel. I hate that thing. If I had it to do all over again, I still would buy the TL. With it's minor shortcomings, the TL is still a great car.

SeismicGuy

That was certainly true up until a few years ago. But more recently, Toyota has done a better job of distancing the ES from the Camry in terms of appearance. Something though about the stitching of the leather seats in the ES still look chintzy compared with the seats in the TL, but the overall interior of the latest TL looks too plasticky.

The edge for me still goes to the TL just in terms of the car being more spirited and having more character than the ES. But now that the prices for these 2 cars are virtually the same, I can see why some people would opt for the Lexus.


Doug

weather

CaptnCrunch.....Please, if you can, try and find a few extra pennies and do yourself a HUGE favor, get the SH-AWD if you can! Eventhough I will never drive my car in the rain nor in the snow, the dry handling of this AWD system is simply amazing and pure bliss....

compewterbleu

Ditto, a more affluent Buick IMO, something my grand dad would of drove.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

Do you want to yawn on your commute or get the blood pumping? You have your answer.

Thamac15

I have a 10 TL tech and my wife drives a 10 es350. The smoothness and comfort of the es drive is outstanding. More of a classy style imo and it does have good enough power. I like it a lot. My TL however, is a totally different drive/ride. Rougher than the lexus but it has a stiffer suspension. Handles way better. I feel a lot more power with the TL when i hammer it and it only has i believe 5 more horsepower. Sounds better, sporty exterior/interior.

I prefer the TL, my wife always wants to drive my car to work she says it feels "like a race car"

Both cars are great, es350 is a wonderful car just depends on your style.