Let's Put This Whole "Styling" Thing In Perspective
02-16-2009, 06:00 PM
#41
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02-16-2009, 06:04 PM
#42
Suzuka Master
[QUOTE='06 Anthracite TL;10530148]
Totally agree here, I had to go 250 miles to get an AWD in my color combo. In all of GA there were less than 12 SH cars yet most dealers had dozens of FWD. I actually think they did not expect the SH to be in demand as much and didn't want to have too many to get rid of. I heard originally they onlect expect AWD to make up less than 10% of all TL sales. In ATL I dealt with 5 delars, 3 had no AWD they other 2 had 3 cars between them!
I think the price increase hurt them especially with bad economy. I also think they will wind up making the TSX the bread and butter car, but not until it gets a V6 and then they say it will be limited, another big mistake on their side, I think a V6 TSX will get almost the same MPG as the 4 does so make plenty of them the power will be infectious!
I've gone to the two nearest Acura dealerships in the past couple of weeks. Both had exactly two SH-AWD TLs, and for each of those two SH-AWD models had 6-8 FWD TLs sitting on the lot. I spoke with the GM of my dealership, who expressed frustration because he cannot get the SH-AWD cars, and is stuck with way too many FWD TLs. I happen to think Acura has a manufacturing/supply chain issue on its hands, and it is entirely possible that such issue is having an equal - if not greater - impact on sales than is the styling.
Additionally, the price has increased on the 4G cars. When price increases the size of the market decreases. It is entirely possible that Acura has priced the 4G TL out of its previous market. That is bound to decrease sales. But, that is what the strategy appears to be.
02-16-2009, 06:06 PM
#43
I actually think 'saying' V6 TSXs are limited is better than stating goals of 40k units a year and then not meeting them. They might be heading (back?) towards a more conservative approach to product introductions.
02-16-2009, 07:44 PM
#44
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It takes basic logic to see my point noob. The 3G TL was at one point the number 1 selling entry level luxury sedan. The 4G that's replacing it is near the bottom of the class in sales. You can't blame the price increase since the price of the sedans outselling the new TL are all more expensive. The fact that there are so many TLs on the lot means that there is NOT an availability problem. According to Acura's research AWD models are only expected to make up 20% of sales (ergo why only 20% of TLs on lots are AWD). The demand for AWD TL's likely isn't being outstripped by supply. Demand outstripping supply is when there are waiting list and cars are being "sold" before they even hit the lots. That's not happening with the TL. If you want a comparison to see what the response of the TL should be after a redesign, do research and look up the effects of the redesigned CTS. That's still the number 3 seller today and it's been over a year since it's triumphal launch.
This may sound crazy, but there just might be a middle ground between "meteoric rise" and "abject failure." It's within the realm of possibility that the TL is somewhere in that middle ground. After all, it did sell within a few hundred of the A4/5 and the IS. I'm fairly certain those cars aren't considered abject failures. And isn't that A4 new? What have its sales done in comparison to history?
It's also possible that if dealers had more SH-AWD equipped cars, they could sell more of them. If you read my previous post carefully, I think you'll see the point I was trying to make was that there are not enough SH-AWD TLs, but that there are too many FWD TLs. This point is actually supported by the fact that after being at my dealer on a Tuesday, when I returned the following Saturday, both SH-AWD TLs were gone. As in sold. Keith's experience seems to support the proposition that there may be a supply imbalance, i.e. too many FWD models and not enough SH-AWD.
So there we are. I have no idea why exactly TL sales are down. I submit it's mostly economic. You think it is because it's a failure in almost every way, if I understand your posts. Fine. But let's be clear, neither of us actually knows exactly why because neither of us has all of the facts.
02-16-2009, 11:14 PM
#45
02-17-2009, 08:36 AM
#46
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It's not that I don't see your point. It's that I disagree with you point and the fact that you are passing off your conjecture - no matter how logical - as fact. Support your point with facts that help you make it and you won't need to resort to name-calling.
This may sound crazy, but there just might be a middle ground between "meteoric rise" and "abject failure." It's within the realm of possibility that the TL is somewhere in that middle ground. After all, it did sell within a few hundred of the A4/5 and the IS. I'm fairly certain those cars aren't considered abject failures. And isn't that A4 new? What have its sales done in comparison to history?
It's also possible that if dealers had more SH-AWD equipped cars, they could sell more of them. If you read my previous post carefully, I think you'll see the point I was trying to make was that there are not enough SH-AWD TLs, but that there are too many FWD TLs. This point is actually supported by the fact that after being at my dealer on a Tuesday, when I returned the following Saturday, both SH-AWD TLs were gone. As in sold. Keith's experience seems to support the proposition that there may be a supply imbalance, i.e. too many FWD models and not enough SH-AWD.
So there we are. I have no idea why exactly TL sales are down. I submit it's mostly economic. You think it is because it's a failure in almost every way, if I understand your posts. Fine. But let's be clear, neither of us actually knows exactly why because neither of us has all of the facts.
This may sound crazy, but there just might be a middle ground between "meteoric rise" and "abject failure." It's within the realm of possibility that the TL is somewhere in that middle ground. After all, it did sell within a few hundred of the A4/5 and the IS. I'm fairly certain those cars aren't considered abject failures. And isn't that A4 new? What have its sales done in comparison to history?
It's also possible that if dealers had more SH-AWD equipped cars, they could sell more of them. If you read my previous post carefully, I think you'll see the point I was trying to make was that there are not enough SH-AWD TLs, but that there are too many FWD TLs. This point is actually supported by the fact that after being at my dealer on a Tuesday, when I returned the following Saturday, both SH-AWD TLs were gone. As in sold. Keith's experience seems to support the proposition that there may be a supply imbalance, i.e. too many FWD models and not enough SH-AWD.
So there we are. I have no idea why exactly TL sales are down. I submit it's mostly economic. You think it is because it's a failure in almost every way, if I understand your posts. Fine. But let's be clear, neither of us actually knows exactly why because neither of us has all of the facts.
The A4 has never sold in the same volume as the TL, and the fact that it surpassed the TL in sales is alarming. The A4 isn't a "failure". It's selling at a decent rate compared to it's past and history. It was never the number 1 seller in the US. It was always near the bottom/middle on the sales charts.
You have no FACTS to support your claims that the AWD TL is in high demand and that dealers need more. How do you know that your experiences are happening nationally? SSFTSX says that there are so many AWD TLs on the lot that there trying to give them away. Who's to believe? With no hard evidence it's your word versus his word, and I choose to believe neither. I'm only relying on facts, and the facts are that this new TL isn't selling anywhere near as well as the old one.
You can't blame the economy, when other vehicles like the 3, G, and CTS are still selling well. The only thing that radically separates the new TL from the old TL and it's competition, is it's polarizing design. If you don't believe the design is polarizing, read any and all auto mags to see what they have to say.
Last edited by (Cj); 02-17-2009 at 08:39 AM.
02-17-2009, 08:42 AM
#47
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This the first car where another driver (red Audi A8) gave me a thumbs up on my 4rd day of owning this car. When I drove in to work the security guy almost broke his neck staring at it.
Car I've had were 98 Honda Prelude, 06 BMW 325xi, and 03 TL-S.
Car I've had were 98 Honda Prelude, 06 BMW 325xi, and 03 TL-S.
02-17-2009, 10:14 AM
#48
Three Wheelin'
Honestly people, does anybody really care...I mean really care about how many TL's Acura is selling? Unless you own stock in the company or are an employee, who gives a shit? The end user, us 4G owners, are just happy with our vehicles and enjoy the driving experience on a daily basis. The trolls and the haters here (i.e. SSFTSX, Cj) are the ones who get all worked-up about it....and they don't even own the car! They can't stand the fact that we love our cars. They come here to the forum on a daily basis for no other purpose than to stir up trouble and put down other 4G owners. (In my opinion, these guys should've been banned a long time ago). As for me, I don't give a flying shit how many TL's were sold or not sold in the Bay Area (yes, I'm talking to you SSFTSX). I love the fact that my car is unique and turns heads everywhere I go. I am going to drive my car and enjoy the shit out of it for the next 2+ years and when my lease is up, move on to something else.
02-17-2009, 10:22 AM
#49
AZ Community Team
Both of you are missing the point. Look at last months sales:
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
02-17-2009, 10:47 AM
#50
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If expressing how I feel about the disproportionally large silver coated plastic smiley face grille makes me a hater then I plead guilty as charged. I like what I like and I refuse to consider laying down $40k on a car that I have to hope will "grow" on me.
I hated the grille when I first saw pics of it and I still hate it after I've seen it in person. Acura carried over absolutely none of the TL heritage that made the TL such a success. Even GM typically acknowledges and builds on the heritage of a model line. Look at the Corvette, you can pick out subtle styling ques of former generations in each re-design.
I could live with the sides and rear of the new TL, that grille is an absolute deal buster for me. I made a conscious choice to go with the outdated 3rd generation after seeing the 4th and am very content.
I hated the grille when I first saw pics of it and I still hate it after I've seen it in person. Acura carried over absolutely none of the TL heritage that made the TL such a success. Even GM typically acknowledges and builds on the heritage of a model line. Look at the Corvette, you can pick out subtle styling ques of former generations in each re-design.
I could live with the sides and rear of the new TL, that grille is an absolute deal buster for me. I made a conscious choice to go with the outdated 3rd generation after seeing the 4th and am very content.
02-17-2009, 11:41 AM
#51
Three Wheelin'
Previous TL models mostly succeeded in accomplishing the factors above, which created trust in the brand and continued sales. The latest model (usually the volume seller for Acura) has yet to achieve such success amongst its competitors (yes it's still early), so I think Acura owners are a little concerned about where the brand is heading...
02-17-2009, 12:25 PM
#52
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Market demand leads to higher resale, higher residual values, lower money factors, and increased aftermarket support. I would definitely care.
Previous TL models mostly succeeded in accomplishing the factors above, which created trust in the brand and continued sales. The latest model (usually the volume seller for Acura) has yet to achieve such success amongst its competitors (yes it's still early), so I think Acura owners are a little concerned about where the brand is heading...
Previous TL models mostly succeeded in accomplishing the factors above, which created trust in the brand and continued sales. The latest model (usually the volume seller for Acura) has yet to achieve such success amongst its competitors (yes it's still early), so I think Acura owners are a little concerned about where the brand is heading...
02-17-2009, 01:23 PM
#53
Both of you are missing the point. Look at last months sales:
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
1. BMW 3-Series - 5,013
2. Cadillac CTS - 3,418
3. Mercedes C-Class - 3,032
4. Lexus ES - 2,971
5. Infiniti G sedan - 2,609
6. Lexus IS - 2,400
7. Acura TL - 2,317
8. Audi A4 - 2,058
9. Lincoln MKZ - 1,561
10. Volvo S60 - 275
So far this year the new TL is outselling the new A4. I guess the A4 is a so-called failure as well. With the exception of the 3-series and CTS the new TL is within less 1K sales of the competition. Considering the economy I think the new TL is actually doing okay. I’m starting to see more and more on the road. I’ve counted at least 15 so far. I wouldn’t be surprised if sales start to increase for the new TL.
02-17-2009, 01:57 PM
#54
this argument can go back and forth untill the 5th gen TL comes out...i never liked the 4th gen TL when the first shots of it hit the net...and i show the same interest in it now, even after test driving one and seeing 1 or 2 (no exaggeration). i am not shitting on the guys that bought the 4th gens, but for the money they want for the car, i'd go elsewhere...hell, i'd take a TSX over a TL right about now
hope i didnt touch any nerves, to those with the 4 gens, enjoy them
hope i didnt touch any nerves, to those with the 4 gens, enjoy them
02-17-2009, 01:58 PM
#55
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Frankly it is a FACT that the TL was that number 1 selling vehicle in it's class, and it is a FACT that the TL is now near the bottom of the sales chart for it's class. What else needs to be explained?
The A4 has never sold in the same volume as the TL, and the fact that it surpassed the TL in sales is alarming. The A4 isn't a "failure". It's selling at a decent rate compared to it's past and history. It was never the number 1 seller in the US. It was always near the bottom/middle on the sales charts.
You have no FACTS to support your claims that the AWD TL is in high demand and that dealers need more. How do you know that your experiences are happening nationally? SSFTSX says that there are so many AWD TLs on the lot that there trying to give them away. Who's to believe? With no hard evidence it's your word versus his word, and I choose to believe neither. I'm only relying on facts, and the facts are that this new TL isn't selling anywhere near as well as the old one.
You can't blame the economy, when other vehicles like the 3, G, and CTS are still selling well. The only thing that radically separates the new TL from the old TL and it's competition, is it's polarizing design. If you don't believe the design is polarizing, read any and all auto mags to see what they have to say.
The A4 has never sold in the same volume as the TL, and the fact that it surpassed the TL in sales is alarming. The A4 isn't a "failure". It's selling at a decent rate compared to it's past and history. It was never the number 1 seller in the US. It was always near the bottom/middle on the sales charts.
You have no FACTS to support your claims that the AWD TL is in high demand and that dealers need more. How do you know that your experiences are happening nationally? SSFTSX says that there are so many AWD TLs on the lot that there trying to give them away. Who's to believe? With no hard evidence it's your word versus his word, and I choose to believe neither. I'm only relying on facts, and the facts are that this new TL isn't selling anywhere near as well as the old one.
You can't blame the economy, when other vehicles like the 3, G, and CTS are still selling well. The only thing that radically separates the new TL from the old TL and it's competition, is it's polarizing design. If you don't believe the design is polarizing, read any and all auto mags to see what they have to say.
From the available manufacturer data:
3 Series sales, year-over-year:
Jan. 09 Jan. 08 %
5,013 6,844 -26.8%
A4 sales, year-over-year:
Jan-09 Jan-08 Yr/Yr % change
2058 2914 -29.4%
TL sales, year-over-year:
Jan 09 Jan 08 %
2,317 3,246 -31.4
Looking at the historical sales data for the TL from Honda's corporate website, it's been on the decrease since sometime in late 2006. And it wasn't at the top of its class in March of 2007 (the only other month turning up in my Google searches):
March 2007 - Entry Level Luxury Car Sales
1. 3 Series - 11,259
2. G35 - 7,992
3. ES350 - 7,444
4. TL - 5,769
5. IS - 5,077
6. CTS - 4,881
7. C Class - 4,486
8. A4 - 3,783
9. MKZ - 3,626
10. TSX - 3,232
11. S40/V50 - 2,508
12. 9-3 - 1,981
13. S60 - 1,702
14. X-Type - 285
Admittedly this is incomplete data, but nonetheless are we going to blame the TL's sales in March 2007 on the anticipation of the 4G's styling?
And since you say the brand new, redesigned 2009 A4 is selling at a "decent rate compared to its past and history," can I assume that you find its own 29% year over year decline acceptable? If so, I am willing to attribute the additional two percentage point decline the TL suffered vs. the A4 as the unfortunate result of the TL's styling.
Thanks for playing.
Last edited by '06 Anthracite TL; 02-17-2009 at 02:02 PM.
02-17-2009, 02:17 PM
#56
AZ Community Team
02-17-2009, 02:39 PM
#57
Three Wheelin'
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Again, read what I've posted. I am not disputing the sales results, I am disputing your attribution of the results and I am taking issue with the fact that the numbers you provide are not the whole picture. Hence my desire for longitudinal sales data for all of these cars. My "claim" that dealers need more AWD TLs is merely one possible explanation for the TL's sales. I have no idea why exactly the TL's sales have dropped. I have never claimed to know why. You have. I am just pointing out that there are other possible explanations that you refuse to accept.
From the available manufacturer data:
3 Series sales, year-over-year:
Jan. 09 Jan. 08 %
5,013 6,844 -26.8%
A4 sales, year-over-year:
Jan-09 Jan-08 Yr/Yr % change
2058 2914 -29.4%
TL sales, year-over-year:
Jan 09 Jan 08 %
2,317 3,246 -31.4
Looking at the historical sales data for the TL from Honda's corporate website, it's been on the decrease since sometime in late 2006. And it wasn't at the top of its class in March of 2007 (the only other month turning up in my Google searches):
March 2007 - Entry Level Luxury Car Sales
1. 3 Series - 11,259
2. G35 - 7,992
3. ES350 - 7,444
4. TL - 5,769
5. IS - 5,077
6. CTS - 4,881
7. C Class - 4,486
8. A4 - 3,783
9. MKZ - 3,626
10. TSX - 3,232
11. S40/V50 - 2,508
12. 9-3 - 1,981
13. S60 - 1,702
14. X-Type - 285
Admittedly this is incomplete data, but nonetheless are we going to blame the TL's sales in March 2007 on the anticipation of the 4G's styling?
And since you say the brand new, redesigned 2009 A4 is selling at a "decent rate compared to its past and history," can I assume that you find its own 29% year over year decline acceptable? If so, I am willing to attribute the additional two percentage point decline the TL suffered vs. the A4 as the unfortunate result of the TL's styling.
Thanks for playing.
From the available manufacturer data:
3 Series sales, year-over-year:
Jan. 09 Jan. 08 %
5,013 6,844 -26.8%
A4 sales, year-over-year:
Jan-09 Jan-08 Yr/Yr % change
2058 2914 -29.4%
TL sales, year-over-year:
Jan 09 Jan 08 %
2,317 3,246 -31.4
Looking at the historical sales data for the TL from Honda's corporate website, it's been on the decrease since sometime in late 2006. And it wasn't at the top of its class in March of 2007 (the only other month turning up in my Google searches):
March 2007 - Entry Level Luxury Car Sales
1. 3 Series - 11,259
2. G35 - 7,992
3. ES350 - 7,444
4. TL - 5,769
5. IS - 5,077
6. CTS - 4,881
7. C Class - 4,486
8. A4 - 3,783
9. MKZ - 3,626
10. TSX - 3,232
11. S40/V50 - 2,508
12. 9-3 - 1,981
13. S60 - 1,702
14. X-Type - 285
Admittedly this is incomplete data, but nonetheless are we going to blame the TL's sales in March 2007 on the anticipation of the 4G's styling?
And since you say the brand new, redesigned 2009 A4 is selling at a "decent rate compared to its past and history," can I assume that you find its own 29% year over year decline acceptable? If so, I am willing to attribute the additional two percentage point decline the TL suffered vs. the A4 as the unfortunate result of the TL's styling.
Thanks for playing.
1. 3 Series
2. G35
3. ES350
4. TL
5. IS
6. CTS
7. C Class
8. A4
And look at them for Jan 09:
1. 3
2. G
3. CTS
4. C
5. ES
6. A4/5
7. IS
8. TL
The TL has fallen from 4th place to 8th place (or 7th depending on if you include the A4 Coupe A5). The only difference between now and then is the new 4th gen design. Deduce from that what you want, but I'm concerned that there is a problem and the design may be hindering the new TL from succeeding.
Compare this with 2004 sales when the 3rd gen Acura TL launched. In that year the TL surpassed the 3 series in sales and became the number 1 selling entry level luxury sedan. Now the 4th Gen is struggling compared to it's competition. This is with new features, more power, and a bigger size.
02-17-2009, 02:58 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
It all depends on how long you keep your car. If you buy and own it for seven years or so, the resale value is going to be quite low regardless of whether the current model is a hot seller. It's certainly not worth agonizing over monthly sales numbers like your personal worth is somehow dictated by the sales numbers of the car you drive.
Originally Posted by Type34
Market demand leads to higher resale, higher residual values, lower money factors, and increased aftermarket support. I would definitely care.
Previous TL models mostly succeeded in accomplishing the factors above, which created trust in the brand and continued sales. The latest model (usually the volume seller for Acura) has yet to achieve such success amongst its competitors (yes it's still early), so I think Acura owners are a little concerned about where the brand is heading...
Previous TL models mostly succeeded in accomplishing the factors above, which created trust in the brand and continued sales. The latest model (usually the volume seller for Acura) has yet to achieve such success amongst its competitors (yes it's still early), so I think Acura owners are a little concerned about where the brand is heading...
The point of all of these sales figures (relative to its peers) is that they prove whether the new styling direction is working.
As mentioned, if people like the new styling direction (i.e. robust sales), it'll lead to higher residual values, lower money factors, and increased aftermarket support. So lease rates will be lower and there will be more aftermarket parts available.
Although I think it could be improved, I'm not turned off as much by the corporate beak as much as Acura's removal of touch-screen navigation and moving the screen on top of the dash. It probably means I'll keep my current cars longer than anticipated...or eventually coin up for a CTS-V
02-17-2009, 03:31 PM
#59
Instructor
Thank you for providing numbers for March 2007, because this proves my point even more. Look at the position of the cars in March 07:
1. 3 Series
2. G35
3. ES350
4. TL
5. IS
6. CTS
7. C Class
8. A4
And look at them for Jan 09:
1. 3
2. G
3. CTS
4. C
5. ES
6. A4/5
7. IS
8. TL
The TL has fallen from 4th place to 8th place (or 7th depending on if you include the A4 Coupe A5). The only difference between now and then is the new 4th gen design. Deduce from that what you want, but I'm concerned that there is a problem and the design may be hindering the new TL from succeeding.
Compare this with 2004 sales when the 3rd gen Acura TL launched. In that year the TL surpassed the 3 series in sales and became the number 1 selling entry level luxury sedan. Now the 4th Gen is struggling compared to it's competition. This is with new features, more power, and a bigger size.
1. 3 Series
2. G35
3. ES350
4. TL
5. IS
6. CTS
7. C Class
8. A4
And look at them for Jan 09:
1. 3
2. G
3. CTS
4. C
5. ES
6. A4/5
7. IS
8. TL
The TL has fallen from 4th place to 8th place (or 7th depending on if you include the A4 Coupe A5). The only difference between now and then is the new 4th gen design. Deduce from that what you want, but I'm concerned that there is a problem and the design may be hindering the new TL from succeeding.
Compare this with 2004 sales when the 3rd gen Acura TL launched. In that year the TL surpassed the 3 series in sales and became the number 1 selling entry level luxury sedan. Now the 4th Gen is struggling compared to it's competition. This is with new features, more power, and a bigger size.
January 2009 Sales for entry level luxury sedans
1. BMW 3-Series - 5,013
2. Cadillac CTS - 3,418
3. Mercedes C-Class - 3,032
4. Lexus ES - 2,971
5. Infiniti G sedan - 2,609
6. Lexus IS - 2,400
7. Acura TL - 2,317
8. Audi A4 - 2,058
9. Lincoln MKZ - 1,561
10. Volvo S60 - 275
The A5 is not an A4 so don't try to include it to inflate the #'s.
02-17-2009, 05:57 PM
#60
2013 RL or bust
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And isn't that the case... once you see a guy driving YOUR car, only NEWER, it's "Dammit my car sucks, piece of junk"
Last edited by afjock21; 02-17-2009 at 06:00 PM.
02-17-2009, 06:31 PM
#61
Pretty much, but I wouldn't say my old car sucks and it's a piece of junk, it's just that new stuff is new! And I love the back of this TL. My old 3G looks so dated now.
+1 what Pete said above! Well spoken! Damn skippy! I love the fact that I don't see these on the road where I live. The attention is overwhelming!
+1 what Pete said above! Well spoken! Damn skippy! I love the fact that I don't see these on the road where I live. The attention is overwhelming!
02-17-2009, 06:48 PM
#62
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And as a guy who first said "Acura sucks now. Look at these ugly ass new cars, WTF!!" I am now SLIGHTLY recanting my statements.. (new RL opinion still stays the same, yuck, disgusting, and a grill you can't do much with..) However the people that say the TL's beak and ass are just too much to deal with..?? What? Just paint the damn thing, and VOILA!! And people would take a TSX over the TL at this point??? What?! You obviously don't give a damn about driving capabilities and performance, and just care about how does my car look.
All in all, the new TL is winning me over slowly but surely... When I saw a nice NBP speed off the dealer lot for a test drive, while I was wandering around the lot, I think I stood there for a few minutes thinking... MY GAWD!... Albeit it had the nice big wheels, and some tint on the windows.
All in all, the new TL is winning me over slowly but surely... When I saw a nice NBP speed off the dealer lot for a test drive, while I was wandering around the lot, I think I stood there for a few minutes thinking... MY GAWD!... Albeit it had the nice big wheels, and some tint on the windows.
02-17-2009, 06:55 PM
#64
Senior Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Since we already have a "exterior styling" thread that is a sticky up top- this thread is closed. It's just redundant.
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