Let's Put This Whole "Styling" Thing In Perspective
02-15-2009, 04:09 PM
#1
I feel strongly both ways
Thread Starter
Let's Put This Whole "Styling" Thing In Perspective
Many have opined about the new TL's styling. Most of those who have offered an opinion have suggested that the new styling is anywhere from off-putting to appallingly horrible. I wonder how many people realize that the #1 priority of a car manufacturer when introducing a new model is to get noticed. Hell, look at what happened to the RL. A nice enough vehicle that no one noticed because it was (is?) so damn bland. Sales have reflected this lack of recognition.
How many of you remember the reception that Chris Bangle's "flame siding" design themes got on BMW's? The reviews were easily as negative as those we've heard about the TL. Hell, I heard that he even received death threats (lol). Does anyone recall that BMW sales more than doubled after all was said and done under Bangle's design stewardship?
And the new design theme of the Cadillacs? People were appalled and outraged, but since the introduction of that design theme the CTS has essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevant car company at a time when it was teetering on oblivion and/or becoming the sole supplier of conveyances to 80+ year old ladies with blue hair residing in Miami Beach.
The reality is that destinctive, instantly recognizable design themes vitalize car companies. Equally clear to anyone with a historical perspective is that these same radical new design themes are universally met with distain and disgust when first introduced.
How many of you remember the reception that Chris Bangle's "flame siding" design themes got on BMW's? The reviews were easily as negative as those we've heard about the TL. Hell, I heard that he even received death threats (lol). Does anyone recall that BMW sales more than doubled after all was said and done under Bangle's design stewardship?
And the new design theme of the Cadillacs? People were appalled and outraged, but since the introduction of that design theme the CTS has essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevant car company at a time when it was teetering on oblivion and/or becoming the sole supplier of conveyances to 80+ year old ladies with blue hair residing in Miami Beach.
The reality is that destinctive, instantly recognizable design themes vitalize car companies. Equally clear to anyone with a historical perspective is that these same radical new design themes are universally met with distain and disgust when first introduced.
02-15-2009, 04:18 PM
#2
Suzuka Master
Many have opined about the new TL's styling. Most of those who have offered an opinion have suggested that the new styling is anywhere from off-putting to appallingly horrible. I wonder how many people realize that the #1 priority of a car manufacturer when introducing a new model is to get noticed. Hell, look at what happened to the RL. A nice enough vehicle that no one noticed because it was (is?) so damn bland. Sales have reflected this lack of recognition.
How many of you remember the reception that Chris Bangle's "flame siding" design themes got on BMW's? The reviews were easily as negative as those we've heard about the TL. Hell, I heard that he even received death threats (lol). Does anyone recall that BMW sales more than doubled after all was said and done under Bangle's design stewardship?
And the new design theme of the Cadillacs? People were appalled and outraged, but since the introduction of that design theme the CTS has essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevant car company at a time when it was teetering on oblivion and/or becoming the sole supplier of conveyances to 80+ year old ladies with blue hair residing in Miami Beach.
The reality is that destinctive, instantly recognizable design themes vitalize car companies. Equally clear to anyone with a historical perspective is that these same radical new design themes are universally met with distain and disgust when first introduced.
How many of you remember the reception that Chris Bangle's "flame siding" design themes got on BMW's? The reviews were easily as negative as those we've heard about the TL. Hell, I heard that he even received death threats (lol). Does anyone recall that BMW sales more than doubled after all was said and done under Bangle's design stewardship?
And the new design theme of the Cadillacs? People were appalled and outraged, but since the introduction of that design theme the CTS has essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevant car company at a time when it was teetering on oblivion and/or becoming the sole supplier of conveyances to 80+ year old ladies with blue hair residing in Miami Beach.
The reality is that destinctive, instantly recognizable design themes vitalize car companies. Equally clear to anyone with a historical perspective is that these same radical new design themes are universally met with distain and disgust when first introduced.
I agree that the auto maker wants their cars noticed, but they want it noticed in a good way and while I bought a 4G SH-AWD it is still not wow-ing me in ht eexternior looks dept. It is growing on me, but I still think the car does not flow very well. It has a nice profile. The damn beak is still killing me, I hope to be an early adopter of Ron Jon's grill which I think will make a big difference. I know when I saw the 3G TL I instantly fell in love with it, not so with the 4G, not even close, more like a marriage of convienence, the car has great techa nd awesome ride so I tolerate the styling, liek I said I don't hate it liek I did when it was unveiled, but check with me in 2-3 years I still doubt you hear me saying I love the design, but it is an awesome car!
02-15-2009, 04:45 PM
#3
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Many have opined about the new TL's styling. Most of those who have offered an opinion have suggested that the new styling is anywhere from off-putting to appallingly horrible. I wonder how many people realize that the #1 priority of a car manufacturer when introducing a new model is to get noticed. Hell, look at what happened to the RL. A nice enough vehicle that no one noticed because it was (is?) so damn bland. Sales have reflected this lack of recognition.
How many of you remember the reception that Chris Bangle's "flame siding" design themes got on BMW's? The reviews were easily as negative as those we've heard about the TL. Hell, I heard that he even received death threats (lol). Does anyone recall that BMW sales more than doubled after all was said and done under Bangle's design stewardship?
And the new design theme of the Cadillacs? People were appalled and outraged, but since the introduction of that design theme the CTS has essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevant car company at a time when it was teetering on oblivion and/or becoming the sole supplier of conveyances to 80+ year old ladies with blue hair residing in Miami Beach.
The reality is that destinctive, instantly recognizable design themes vitalize car companies. Equally clear to anyone with a historical perspective is that these same radical new design themes are universally met with distain and disgust when first introduced.
How many of you remember the reception that Chris Bangle's "flame siding" design themes got on BMW's? The reviews were easily as negative as those we've heard about the TL. Hell, I heard that he even received death threats (lol). Does anyone recall that BMW sales more than doubled after all was said and done under Bangle's design stewardship?
And the new design theme of the Cadillacs? People were appalled and outraged, but since the introduction of that design theme the CTS has essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevant car company at a time when it was teetering on oblivion and/or becoming the sole supplier of conveyances to 80+ year old ladies with blue hair residing in Miami Beach.
The reality is that destinctive, instantly recognizable design themes vitalize car companies. Equally clear to anyone with a historical perspective is that these same radical new design themes are universally met with distain and disgust when first introduced.
02-15-2009, 05:58 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Look at all your examples. Sales increased for BMW and Cadillac after implementing their new design themes. Sales for the TL have done the opposite. Of course one could blame the economy, but just look at the competition. The TL used to be the BEST seller in it's class (and if not number one always near the top of the pack in sales). The new one is barely in the middle and pretty close to the bottom on the sales charts compared to it's competition. Hell, the TSX is even outselling it now.
The Bangled-designed 5 series wasn't a hit right away....it took a while. When I bought my '05 545i several years ago, I was ridiculed and harrassed by Bimmerphiles everywhere.....these hypocritical idiots later bought 5 series themselves. The 4G has only been out 5 months....way too early to judge the car. Unlike the competition whose styling hasn't changed much, it takes longer for a brand new design to be accepted. And yes, the economy hasn't helped either.
02-15-2009, 05:59 PM
#6
I'm so past the look of the "new" 4G TL. The 3G looks like my old Intergra LS to me now. 9 out of 10 3G's I see in LA are driven by women. Sales..shmales...it don't mean a thing to me. I'm looking forward to 2010 TL and what changes might come.
02-15-2009, 06:04 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Trending Topics
02-15-2009, 06:31 PM
#8
Racer
I LOVE seeing 3Gs on the road, because I know what they're thinking when I blow past them: ..."godDAMN I don't like my old TL anymore..." LOL
02-15-2009, 06:49 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
Agreed, it's to early to say it's a failure, coupled with the fact that the world is in one of the worst economic downturns in recent memory. People who would have been ordinarily flipping to new cars every 2-3 years cannot get credit.
02-15-2009, 06:52 PM
#10
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Yawn.
Put this in perspective - the 4G TL is an abject failure as a follow-up to the 3G TL. That said, if you are one of those people who enjoys being on the outside looking in, thinking yourself so much smarter than the vast majority of the auto press and countless auto enthusiasts, go right ahead and enjoy your ride.
Put this in perspective - the 4G TL is an abject failure as a follow-up to the 3G TL. That said, if you are one of those people who enjoys being on the outside looking in, thinking yourself so much smarter than the vast majority of the auto press and countless auto enthusiasts, go right ahead and enjoy your ride.
02-15-2009, 06:56 PM
#11
I feel strongly both ways
Thread Starter
Yawn.
Put this in perspective - the 4G TL is an abject failure as a follow-up to the 3G TL. That said, if you are one of those people who enjoys being on the outside looking in, thinking yourself so much smarter than the vast majority of the auto press and countless auto enthusiasts, go right ahead and enjoy your ride.
Put this in perspective - the 4G TL is an abject failure as a follow-up to the 3G TL. That said, if you are one of those people who enjoys being on the outside looking in, thinking yourself so much smarter than the vast majority of the auto press and countless auto enthusiasts, go right ahead and enjoy your ride.
Ditto the CTS.
02-15-2009, 07:30 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Yawn.
Put this in perspective - the 4G TL is an abject failure as a follow-up to the 3G TL. That said, if you are one of those people who enjoys being on the outside looking in, thinking yourself so much smarter than the vast majority of the auto press and countless auto enthusiasts, go right ahead and enjoy your ride.
Put this in perspective - the 4G TL is an abject failure as a follow-up to the 3G TL. That said, if you are one of those people who enjoys being on the outside looking in, thinking yourself so much smarter than the vast majority of the auto press and countless auto enthusiasts, go right ahead and enjoy your ride.
02-15-2009, 07:35 PM
#14
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Yawn.
Put this in perspective - the 4G TL is an abject failure as a follow-up to the 3G TL. That said, if you are one of those people who enjoys being on the outside looking in, thinking yourself so much smarter than the vast majority of the auto press and countless auto enthusiasts, go right ahead and enjoy your ride.
Put this in perspective - the 4G TL is an abject failure as a follow-up to the 3G TL. That said, if you are one of those people who enjoys being on the outside looking in, thinking yourself so much smarter than the vast majority of the auto press and countless auto enthusiasts, go right ahead and enjoy your ride.
02-15-2009, 08:21 PM
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They may have been mocked and scorned, but people still lined up to buy them. Sales of the 5 series were still greater than most of it's competition and it's regained and exceeded the 5 of yesteryear. People aren't lining up to buy TLs. They're buying CTSs, Gs, and ESs instead.
02-15-2009, 08:44 PM
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I just received another email from Acura Canada on Friday based on my replying to their survey on the 09 TL, they are offering me $100 Visa credit if I will sit down with an Acura Canada representative and discuss why I didn't buy an 09 TL when I got rid of my 05... easy money and a short conversation... you designed a butt ugly car..
I know styling is very subjective, but I think the verdict is in, as is clearly represented in the poll on this fourm
So to say Acura is not concerned about the sales failure of the new TL, is simply not facing reality
I know styling is very subjective, but I think the verdict is in, as is clearly represented in the poll on this fourm
So to say Acura is not concerned about the sales failure of the new TL, is simply not facing reality
02-15-2009, 09:07 PM
#18
Suzuka Master
I just received another email from Acura Canada on Friday based on my replying to their survey on the 09 TL, they are offering me $100 Visa credit if I will sit down with an Acura Canada representative and discuss why I didn't buy an 09 TL when I got rid of my 05... easy money and a short conversation... you designed a butt ugly car..
I know styling is very subjective, but I think the verdict is in, as is clearly represented in the poll on this fourm
So to say Acura is not concerned about the sales failure of the new TL, is simply not facing reality
I know styling is very subjective, but I think the verdict is in, as is clearly represented in the poll on this fourm
So to say Acura is not concerned about the sales failure of the new TL, is simply not facing reality
02-15-2009, 09:18 PM
#20
I don't think you can say sales = design non-acceptance in this economy
w/ that I could say the new model 911 must not be accepted - sales are way down - or could it be the economy? I'm not trying to make anyone who doesn't like the car's looks change their minds - that's your opinion. Maybe no one likes the design of new houses either? those sales are way down compared to the houses b4??? or is no one buying new houses because of the ECONOMY?
02-15-2009, 09:21 PM
#21
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It's the new TL. If you like TL's, that's the one they sell right now.
It looks like it looks. Nobody is going to change anyones mind.
If you like TLs, either get one or don't get one, and then come here to talk about modding it, or getting a deal on XM, or whatever.
If you don't like them, go get something you do like and go talk to people who also like them.
It looks like it looks. Nobody is going to change anyones mind.
If you like TLs, either get one or don't get one, and then come here to talk about modding it, or getting a deal on XM, or whatever.
If you don't like them, go get something you do like and go talk to people who also like them.
02-15-2009, 10:51 PM
#23
It's the new TL. If you like TL's, that's the one they sell right now.
It looks like it looks. Nobody is going to change anyones mind.
If you like TLs, either get one or don't get one, and then come here to talk about modding it, or getting a deal on XM, or whatever.
If you don't like them, go get something you do like and go talk to people who also like them.
It looks like it looks. Nobody is going to change anyones mind.
If you like TLs, either get one or don't get one, and then come here to talk about modding it, or getting a deal on XM, or whatever.
If you don't like them, go get something you do like and go talk to people who also like them.
02-15-2009, 10:59 PM
#24
Look at BMW pricing. On Average it has bumped about $5K from 2004 model year to 2009 model year. Without changing the Design.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...Series#general
2009
2004
Now Look at Acura. TL FWD Tech is only $1K more expensive than TL-type S with its outdated tech package. so the car has even more value.
So all this bold new large styling means nothing interms of price power and sales are down by well over 60% on average. consumers are not appreciating its enhanced value due its styling.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...Series#general
2009
528i 528xi 535i 535xi 550i
Base Retail Price (MSRP) $45,800 $48,100 $51,100 $53,400 $60,400
Base Invoice Price $42,135 $44,250 $47,010 $49,130 $55,570
Destination Charge $825 $825 $825 $825 $825
Base Retail Price (MSRP) $45,800 $48,100 $51,100 $53,400 $60,400
Base Invoice Price $42,135 $44,250 $47,010 $49,130 $55,570
Destination Charge $825 $825 $825 $825 $825
General Prices Pricing Definitions
525i 530i 545i 545i 6-speed
Kelley Blue Book Price $19,350 - $20,400 $21,600 - $22,700 $23,900 - $25,100 N/A
Original Retail Price (MSRP) $39,800 $44,900 $55,000 $58,300
Original Invoice Price $36,380 $41,020 $50,210 $53,215
525i 530i 545i 545i 6-speed
Kelley Blue Book Price $19,350 - $20,400 $21,600 - $22,700 $23,900 - $25,100 N/A
Original Retail Price (MSRP) $39,800 $44,900 $55,000 $58,300
Original Invoice Price $36,380 $41,020 $50,210 $53,215
Now Look at Acura. TL FWD Tech is only $1K more expensive than TL-type S with its outdated tech package. so the car has even more value.
So all this bold new large styling means nothing interms of price power and sales are down by well over 60% on average. consumers are not appreciating its enhanced value due its styling.
02-15-2009, 11:03 PM
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What sold me was taking a spirited drive with the SH-awd on a local canyon road I ride the motorcycle on and it was all over. I actually bought the demo car (I was the 2nd person to test drive it.)
As for looks, the car has really grown on me. Body paint matching the grill/trunk lip made all the difference in the world. I love this car and actually look forward to every chance to drive it.
02-15-2009, 11:03 PM
#26
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Honesty I kinda like the new TL. I have a 04 TL and of course I think the 3G is the best looking TL yet, but I have very little complaints with the 4G.
I'm not a big fan of the grill, but I'm not going to say that I HATE IT...because I don't. It's different to say the least, but i've seen some with the big part painted, and I really really really like it.
I would opt to get the SH-AWD, one because my dad has a G35x, and I absolutely love the AWD, especially in shitty weather, and that the exhaust tips look better IMO...even though there is just a line of metal going in the middle.
I wish the trunk opening was a little bigger, especially for getting bigger bags in, but besides that I really don't have a problem with it. I turn my head every time I see one on the road.
As for the sale problems...I honestly can't tell ya. Either the styling is still iffy to some people, or the economy is playing a factor, or whatever. I'm sure once it grows on people or the economy somewhat stabilizes, sales will creep up.
I'm just stating my opinion on the matter...and by the looks of this thread, I'm probably going to get bitched out haha.
I'm not a big fan of the grill, but I'm not going to say that I HATE IT...because I don't. It's different to say the least, but i've seen some with the big part painted, and I really really really like it.
I would opt to get the SH-AWD, one because my dad has a G35x, and I absolutely love the AWD, especially in shitty weather, and that the exhaust tips look better IMO...even though there is just a line of metal going in the middle.
I wish the trunk opening was a little bigger, especially for getting bigger bags in, but besides that I really don't have a problem with it. I turn my head every time I see one on the road.
As for the sale problems...I honestly can't tell ya. Either the styling is still iffy to some people, or the economy is playing a factor, or whatever. I'm sure once it grows on people or the economy somewhat stabilizes, sales will creep up.
I'm just stating my opinion on the matter...and by the looks of this thread, I'm probably going to get bitched out haha.
02-15-2009, 11:56 PM
#27
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i think i might be the only one that is in LOVE with the 4g TLs styling, they look so aggressive compared to the 3g, especially that shinny grill, looks like a sword coming at you, i currently owns a 05 3g, if i have the money i would get the new 4g AWD-tech in a heartbeat, too bad i think the my 3g is still good for another 2-3 years. (bought a 100,000 powertain during purchase, buying a new TL would be bad value i think.)
02-16-2009, 12:56 AM
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Many have opined about the new TL's styling. Most of those who have offered an opinion have suggested that the new styling is anywhere from off-putting to appallingly horrible. I wonder how many people realize that the #1 priority of a car manufacturer when introducing a new model is to get noticed. Hell, look at what happened to the RL. A nice enough vehicle that no one noticed because it was (is?) so damn bland. Sales have reflected this lack of recognition.
How many of you remember the reception that Chris Bangle's "flame siding" design themes got on BMW's? The reviews were easily as negative as those we've heard about the TL. Hell, I heard that he even received death threats (lol). Does anyone recall that BMW sales more than doubled after all was said and done under Bangle's design stewardship?
And the new design theme of the Cadillacs? People were appalled and outraged, but since the introduction of that design theme the CTS has essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevant car company at a time when it was teetering on oblivion and/or becoming the sole supplier of conveyances to 80+ year old ladies with blue hair residing in Miami Beach.
The reality is that destinctive, instantly recognizable design themes vitalize car companies. Equally clear to anyone with a historical perspective is that these same radical new design themes are universally met with distain and disgust when first introduced.
How many of you remember the reception that Chris Bangle's "flame siding" design themes got on BMW's? The reviews were easily as negative as those we've heard about the TL. Hell, I heard that he even received death threats (lol). Does anyone recall that BMW sales more than doubled after all was said and done under Bangle's design stewardship?
And the new design theme of the Cadillacs? People were appalled and outraged, but since the introduction of that design theme the CTS has essentially reinvented Cadillac as a relevant car company at a time when it was teetering on oblivion and/or becoming the sole supplier of conveyances to 80+ year old ladies with blue hair residing in Miami Beach.
The reality is that destinctive, instantly recognizable design themes vitalize car companies. Equally clear to anyone with a historical perspective is that these same radical new design themes are universally met with distain and disgust when first introduced.
The TL is like like a psychotropic drug!
02-16-2009, 07:15 AM
#29
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You can make numbers say whatever you want - we have had that discussion here b4.
I don't think you can say sales = design non-acceptance in this economy
w/ that I could say the new model 911 must not be accepted - sales are way down - or could it be the economy? I'm not trying to make anyone who doesn't like the car's looks change their minds - that's your opinion. Maybe no one likes the design of new houses either? those sales are way down compared to the houses b4??? or is no one buying new houses because of the ECONOMY?
I don't think you can say sales = design non-acceptance in this economy
w/ that I could say the new model 911 must not be accepted - sales are way down - or could it be the economy? I'm not trying to make anyone who doesn't like the car's looks change their minds - that's your opinion. Maybe no one likes the design of new houses either? those sales are way down compared to the houses b4??? or is no one buying new houses because of the ECONOMY?
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
02-16-2009, 08:14 AM
#30
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Newbie here. I remember when the bangle-flaming blew up in the automotive industry. I was contemplating a Z4 roadster back then but decided against it, didn't like the flames. As time went on, I began to appreciate the look, a look seen in every shopping lot and highway as BMW sales took off due in part to this new look. It was enough for me to eventually buy a Z4. I followed that up with an X5 purchase and considered myself in Bavarian heaven. Then the problems began, etc. etc. Thats a story for another time. So between the issues I've had with both BMWs and the economy the way it is, I decided it was time to trade both of these in on one car that would have traction in Connecticut snow as well as luxury and technology that I am accustomed to. I found that in the 2009 Acura TL.
At first and second glances, I didn't like the TL's styling but in person, the cars are sharp. The driving experience is incredible. This TL handles like a car much lighter than it is and has more features than any car I have ever experienced. If it had a power adjusted and heated steering wheel (like in my X5) and a larger moonroof, it would be perfect. After an overnight testdrive and hour-each-way commute to work in one I found all of the center stack controls to be well-placed and intuitive. The joystick controls will still take some learning on my side but did not require sitting on the side of the road with an owner's manual in my hand as was the case with BMW's iDrive!
So, in summary, the styling of the new TL has grown on me much as the Bangle-flames did. Not right away but in time. The drive of the TL is incredible and I cannot wait to drive off in my new 2009 TL SH-AWD w/Tech in Grigio Metallic paint and Umber/Ebony interior.
Chrisp0410
At first and second glances, I didn't like the TL's styling but in person, the cars are sharp. The driving experience is incredible. This TL handles like a car much lighter than it is and has more features than any car I have ever experienced. If it had a power adjusted and heated steering wheel (like in my X5) and a larger moonroof, it would be perfect. After an overnight testdrive and hour-each-way commute to work in one I found all of the center stack controls to be well-placed and intuitive. The joystick controls will still take some learning on my side but did not require sitting on the side of the road with an owner's manual in my hand as was the case with BMW's iDrive!
So, in summary, the styling of the new TL has grown on me much as the Bangle-flames did. Not right away but in time. The drive of the TL is incredible and I cannot wait to drive off in my new 2009 TL SH-AWD w/Tech in Grigio Metallic paint and Umber/Ebony interior.
Chrisp0410
02-16-2009, 08:28 AM
#31
I feel strongly both ways
Thread Starter
Yes Chris, that's one thing I forgot to mention. Pictures just don't do this car any justice. It looks so much better in person than in pictures, it isn't even funny. There's a kind of aesthetic "wholeness" to it that just doesn't translate well to pictures. And it's an incredibly masculine looking car. I'd be surprised if this car gets much traction with female buyers. That's a shame because the G car, which is, in some ways, more alluring, is a rough sounding beast that never lets you forget you're driving a gussied up sports car. As a daily driver, the TL has it beat hands down for interior refinement, sound isolation and ride quality.
02-16-2009, 08:46 AM
#32
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Newbie here...
...BMW sales took off due in part to this new look. It was enough for me to eventually buy a Z4. I followed that up with an X5 purchase and considered myself in Bavarian heaven. Then the problems began...
...So between the issues I've had with both BMWs and the economy the way it is, I decided it was time to trade both of these in on one car that would have traction in Connecticut snow as well as luxury and technology that I am accustomed to. I found that in the 2009 Acura TL.
...The drive of the TL is incredible and I cannot wait to drive off in my new 2009 TL SH-AWD w/Tech in Grigio Metallic paint and Umber/Ebony interior.
Chrisp0410
...BMW sales took off due in part to this new look. It was enough for me to eventually buy a Z4. I followed that up with an X5 purchase and considered myself in Bavarian heaven. Then the problems began...
...So between the issues I've had with both BMWs and the economy the way it is, I decided it was time to trade both of these in on one car that would have traction in Connecticut snow as well as luxury and technology that I am accustomed to. I found that in the 2009 Acura TL.
...The drive of the TL is incredible and I cannot wait to drive off in my new 2009 TL SH-AWD w/Tech in Grigio Metallic paint and Umber/Ebony interior.
Chrisp0410
Looks like your BMW experience turned sour over time. You will LOVE the reliability of your Acura.
Over the past 21 years, Acuras have proved most reliable and durable for me: 10 years with my 1988 Acura Legend, 11 years with my 1999 Acura TL, and now just starting with my 2009 Acura TL SH-AWD.
Enjoy!
02-16-2009, 10:35 AM
#33
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The Cream Rises to the Top, The TL to the Bottom
Both of you are missing the point. Look at last months sales:
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans.
That pretty much sums it all up.
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans.
That pretty much sums it all up.
After V6 TSX hits dealers, I expect the TL to drop down under 2K.
The 4G could have made a nice run for the top spot, but Acura blew it with an inferior design, obsolete engineering, tremendous gain in size and weight, and an insulting 3K increase in price.
That said, it will get you from Point A to Point B, has a nice tech package, and is certainly more upscale than an Accord, which is why I say, if you dropped 35K+, enjoy your ride.
Just don't expect many others to validate your purchase, other than Honda/Acura dealers and employees
02-16-2009, 04:52 PM
#34
Suzuka Master
I have driven many on that list the IS, the G, and A4 and 3 Series, been a while since I drove an ES and while you are entitled to your opinion I would say the BMW 3 was killer ride and handling, the G was all about straight line performance, the ES is a boat adrift at sea, the IS is not bad, the A4 had a real good combination of ride and comfort. The AWD TL may not be the top of that list for ride, but it is far from bottom, I would rank any TL over an ES by a mile and the SH TL over the IS and G, I would probaly put the A4 and BMW 3 a head of the TL, but then I didn;t drive either that extensively.
02-16-2009, 05:15 PM
#35
Both of you are missing the point. Look at last months sales:
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
02-16-2009, 05:19 PM
#36
6G TLX-S
Both of you are missing the point. Look at last months sales:
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
02-16-2009, 05:38 PM
#37
Intermediate
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
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Both of you are missing the point. Look at last months sales:
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
1. 3 - 5,013
2. G - 3,509
3. CTS - 3,418
4. C - 3,032
5. ES - 2,971
6. A4/5 - 2,661
7. IS - 2,400
8. TL - 2,317
The TL is dead last of the major lux brands entry level luxury sedans. Not so long ago the TL was the NUMBER ONE seller in the entry level lux market. You can't blame the economy when BMW is still able to sell 5,000 3s and Infiniti over 3500 Gs. The TL is suffering, and I believe that it's sales slump can be attributed to it's questionable design. Most new redesigned models have sales jumps. The TL being one of the most popular luxury sedans should have experienced some sort of sales increase after the redesign. Even when the CTS was redesigned last year, it had a remarkable sales spike, and that was the beginning of the economic woes.
That pretty much sums it all up.
I've gone to the two nearest Acura dealerships in the past couple of weeks. Both had exactly two SH-AWD TLs, and for each of those two SH-AWD models had 6-8 FWD TLs sitting on the lot. I spoke with the GM of my dealership, who expressed frustration because he cannot get the SH-AWD cars, and is stuck with way too many FWD TLs. I happen to think Acura has a manufacturing/supply chain issue on its hands, and it is entirely possible that such issue is having an equal - if not greater - impact on sales than is the styling.
Additionally, the price has increased on the 4G cars. When price increases the size of the market decreases. It is entirely possible that Acura has priced the 4G TL out of its previous market. That is bound to decrease sales. But, that is what the strategy appears to be. 4G TL overlaps high end of 3G Tl market and the low-end of the RL market. New RL (when it arrives) move further upscale and becomes the "halo" car everyone is screaming for. TSX moves up to cover the lower end of the 3G TL market. TSX becomes the volume model. I am struggling to see a problem with that.
Last edited by '06 Anthracite TL; 02-16-2009 at 05:42 PM.
02-16-2009, 05:47 PM
#38
Racer
Trust me man, you aint the only one. I absolutely love my car, from beak to ass. It's sick looking, drives wonderfully, and heads turn everywhere I go (more likely a byproduct of there not being any of em on the road yet). I think they did a fantastic job with this ride.
02-16-2009, 05:54 PM
#39
6G TLX-S
.....
Additionally, the price has increased on the 4G cars. When price increases the size of the market decreases. It is entirely possible that Acura has priced the 4G TL out of its previous market. That is bound to decrease sales. But, that is what the strategy appears to be. 4G TL overlaps high end of 3G Tl market and the low-end of the RL market. New RL (when it arrives) move further upscale and becomes the "halo" car everyone is screaming for. TSX moves up to cover the lower end of the 3G TL market. TSX becomes the volume model. I am struggling to see a problem with that.
02-16-2009, 05:55 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
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You're missing the point. You attribute the TL's sales decrease to its styling. It could be any number of factors, including availability. So unless you can show some analysis that proves the point, it remains your opinion and not fact. It would be nice to see some longitudinal data (say from 2004-present) for all of those cars you listed. That would give the complete picture on their sales vis a vis the competition. Plus, you've omitted the percentage change from your figures, which arguably is the more important number to be looking at.
I've gone to the two nearest Acura dealerships in the past couple of weeks. Both had exactly two SH-AWD TLs, and for each of those two SH-AWD models had 6-8 FWD TLs sitting on the lot. I spoke with the GM of my dealership, who expressed frustration because he cannot get the SH-AWD cars, and is stuck with way too many FWD TLs. I happen to think Acura has a manufacturing/supply chain issue on its hands, and it is entirely possible that such issue is having an equal - if not greater - impact on sales than is the styling.
Additionally, the price has increased on the 4G cars. When price increases the size of the market decreases. It is entirely possible that Acura has priced the 4G TL out of its previous market. That is bound to decrease sales. But, that is what the strategy appears to be. 4G TL overlaps high end of 3G Tl market and the low-end of the RL market. New RL (when it arrives) move further upscale and becomes the "halo" car everyone is screaming for. TSX moves up to cover the lower end of the 3G TL market. TSX becomes the volume model. I am struggling to see a problem with that.
I've gone to the two nearest Acura dealerships in the past couple of weeks. Both had exactly two SH-AWD TLs, and for each of those two SH-AWD models had 6-8 FWD TLs sitting on the lot. I spoke with the GM of my dealership, who expressed frustration because he cannot get the SH-AWD cars, and is stuck with way too many FWD TLs. I happen to think Acura has a manufacturing/supply chain issue on its hands, and it is entirely possible that such issue is having an equal - if not greater - impact on sales than is the styling.
Additionally, the price has increased on the 4G cars. When price increases the size of the market decreases. It is entirely possible that Acura has priced the 4G TL out of its previous market. That is bound to decrease sales. But, that is what the strategy appears to be. 4G TL overlaps high end of 3G Tl market and the low-end of the RL market. New RL (when it arrives) move further upscale and becomes the "halo" car everyone is screaming for. TSX moves up to cover the lower end of the 3G TL market. TSX becomes the volume model. I am struggling to see a problem with that.