saw1

I am working a deal on a TL sh-awd tech. I currently have 2007 TL-s 5AT.

Lease is 36 months/12K. $550/mo. Only 1st month payment due at signing.

Please refrain from commenting on leasing vs. buying.

Initial deal was $585/mo with 1500 at signing based off a cap cost of $39900 and money factor 0.00154, 56% residual.

Acura is giving $1000 in loyalty cash.

I am going to counter with $550/mo and 3 year service contract included.

Thoughts?

Skwalker23

Is that a 2010 model? It seems like a great deal for a SH-AWD Tech. Back at the end of August, the best deal I could get on a 2009 TL Tech FWD was $530/month, $1300 drive-off, on a 36 month lease/15k year. My MF in Wisconsin was .00220 with a 53% residual. That also included $2000 dealer cash. Cap cost was roughly $33,600.

bagbklyn

That is a very good deal that your getting. I don't know if they prices for the TL are falling this is the 2nd good deal I have seen on the forum lately. My lease at the beginning of September was for 2009 FWD tech 0 down, $560 a month.

bw5556

Does that include tax?

saw1

Yes. My monthly payment would be $550. Base rate is $514 plus 7% tax.

GrigioTL

Sounds like a good deal for a 2010. Have they accepted your counter offer of $550 or are you still working on it?

dudafunk

Guys I have a noob question. If invoice pricing is the number we know as a customer being a 'good deal', or the way getting to purchase under invoice pricing is a 'great deal', what is its equivalent in leasing?

I have one dealer offering a 30 month lease, another the usual 36/39, and they all keep saying they can work out a lease what any duration. So then, whats the method to know whats a 'good/great' deal on a lease? I just don't know what to search for to learn this!

Thought I'd post in this thread since its kinda related.

greg99

A good deal/great deal for a lease also depends upon invoice pricing.

On a lease, you're concerned about (a) the ultimate purchase price of the car, (b) the money factor (equivalent to the interest rate on a financed car), and (c) the residual value of the car at the end of the lease as a percentage of the sticker price on the car.

All three of these can and should be negotiated, and they should all be negotiated separate from any trade-in or other cap reduction (a "down payment" so to speak). This is why leases can be so tricky for consumers to negotiate, because there are so many different knobs that the dealer can turn to make the numbers work one way or the other.

If they won't disclose to you what each of those three proposed terms are separately, and will only talk to you in terms of the ultimate monthly payment, run, don't walk away from that dealer and that deal. They're well on their way to trying to scam you.

I've experienced this after having negotiated very expensive Audi and MB leases in the past (they're even more likely to cheat you). I walked away from a 535 lease last fall b/c the dealer wouldn't play straight with me on each of these items, even after I told them that I was a corporate lawyer who negotiates leases for a living, and knew exactly how they worked. Fortunately, that came 4 days before Lehman Bros., so it was the best decision I've ever made on a car.

Good luck!

Greg

dudafunk

Thanks Greg! Now the money factor should be different for a 15k miles lease vs. a 12k miles lease etc. correct? If I blindly ask multiple dealers in the same state for their money factor on XYZ miles per year, should I expect the same number? I'm guessing not and also from what I am reading around.

The residual value on the TL over 36 months seems to be between 53-57%

The cap price -> I'd put in invoice pricing there for the best deal 'in theory'.

With this I should be able to calculate my lease monthly payment (of course taking into account taxes, bank fees etc.).. so it boils down to the money factor. I understand these may change each month too?

Please tell me how to get accurate money factor info. Thanks for your previous response too.

bagbklyn

The MF or money factor changes month to month and they stays the same for dealers in a certain region. Like Atlantic or northeast might be slightly difference then the midwest. The money factor is given out by Honda/Acura Corp so it isn't determine by the dealer.

greg99

I'm in this process also, so I don't actually know how Honda/Acura deals with it - with BMW, the dealer can mark up the money factor by a certain amount - can Acura dealers, as well?

Residual values are also set by the finance company.

GrigioTL

The money factor is also determined by your credit. The rates are set on a monthly basis and are approved based on the credit tier you qualify for. The MF can also be regional. Typically to get the best rate, you must qualify for American Honda's "Super Preferred Credit Tier". I believe the next credit tier down from that is the "Preferred Credit Tier"

I am not sure the 2010 TL's are going for invoice. The 2009 TL's may be going for invoice or less becuase Acura offered incentives at one point. I'll suggest you check out Edmunds.com for current incentives and to see what others are paying in your area.

saw1

I have decided to wait until my lease expires next month to make my counter offer. I think I have a better chance at the end of December than now. I just made my last payment on the TL-s (literally, 5 minutes ago on-line).

saw1

It is very difficult to get accurate money factor info. Some dealers will tell you that they "have no control" over the MF. That is wrong. The best thing to do is find a few dealers to work with and let them battle it out for your business. You will quickly find out how low they can go on the MF. And yes, for Acura and most other brands, the MF is a function of your credit.

Remember this, dealers rarely if ever lose money on a deal. Only once in my leasing career did I truly feel that the dealer lost money. They tried to pull the "wrong quote" scam. I held them to the original quote and all hell broke loose. The last thing they tried to do to kill the deal was having the bank call me 2 weeks after delivery to try and change the terms. I politely told them to Fark off!

GrigioTL

I understand the 2010s are not being discounted as much as when Acura offered aggressive incentives on the 2009s some months ago. So the end of year may be a better bet for you. I leased my 2009 TL SH-AWD Tech in September for $599/month for 36 months with only my first months payment due at signing. I have an annual mileage allowance of 18,000 miles. However, this was when Acura was offering the $2000 dealer cash. In addition, I qualified for a special AHFC regional money factor which was much lower than most parts of the country.

dudafunk

I talked to a dealer on Long Island, they are still offering $2000 cash back on the 2009 TL with Tech.

saw1

That is a great deal for 18K miles. What region of the country do you live in? I want to see what December sales event they have. How do you like your TL? What did you have before? I am torn between the usual suspects, G37, 335,535, S4. All great cars, some are better values, some are more fun, others have more features, etc.....

mlb11

For those of us leasing, I found a pretty good site with some useful information:

http://www.ridewithg.com/

This site updates the monthly lease rates for many different types of cars (Acura included). Although often times the money factors do differ regionally, you can get a rough idea of whether they (and the residuals) are moving up or down with each make.

Also, pertaining to the previous posts, in my experience the money factor does not change between models and miles per year, but it is the residual that moves when one is considering different models (sh-awd, tech, etc...) and per year mileage.

When I leased a TL in September, I had all the info (MF, residual, dealer incentives, etc...) I needed in order to negotiate, but the residual I had was from August. Therefore, I miscalculated the monthly payment I wanted to get. However, my dealer printed out and showed me all the information they had and let me check it with my numbers before signing.

Interestingly, since there was $1000 cash back on the sh-awd base the dealer added this as a cap cost reduction after setting the sale price of the car at invoice. Not sure why they did this instead of simply taking another $1k off the purchase price (maybe for tax purposes?) but dealers have many ways of "working" a deal.

GrigioTL

I'm in Michigan. Apart from the grille which took me a little bit to embrace, I have been very pleased with the vehicle overall. I had a Lexus IS 350 with the Nav. and Sport package prior to the TL. I also looked at the G37 and found the vehicle quicker and more responsive than the TL SH-AWD. However, I decided against getting the G37 becuase it is in its 4th year and may be close to a redesign soon. Secondly, the rear seat seemed a bit cramped compared to the TL. There are certainly some great options in this segment - so I'll suggest you test drive a few of them before making a decision.

GrigioTL

Great site! It was a great resource for me before I got my car.

Kandiru

Blessed 2 pedal drivers. For us 3 pedal folks Lex and Inf are out, because just like GM and Ford they drop the manual tranny whenever AWD comes on. Pure xxxx, but money smart. I wish Lexus and Infinity follow in Acura's footsteps and bring on 6MT AWD cars, until then only Acura will stand up to Audi, BMW, SAAB. I drove exclusively Euro cars until now, but our family Honda Odyssey really made me see the light, now if they made the Acura Touring with 6MT SHAWD i would trade it in a heartbeart much to my mocchacino-slurping mother-of-3 sweet American wife's chagrin

saw1

Quick update.

Acura dealer calls last evening, they are now at $533/month, 1st months payment at signing for 36 month/12k lease (TL sh-awd tech).

Service contract not included.

This is really a great deal, but I am looking to get a 2010 G37. The main reason is simply to try something different. Both are great cars, but I have had Acura's for the last 6 years, and Honda products for 16 of my 22 years of driving.

GrigioTL

Sounds like a much better deal than the initial $585/month. The Infiniti G37 is also a great choice. I like the updated front fascia for 2010. I understand Infiniti is offering some very attractive lease deals.

jjsC5

Frankly the deal sounds beyond belief for a 2010. I have a quote right now on a AWD tech, 3 year/15000 a year, not money down for 642/Month. That includes tax, but only 1.2% (on the entire purchase price). They have tax credits right now. The deal is $200 over invoice, btw.

Perhaps the difference on a 12,000 mile lease makes up for some of it, but not over $100. Anyone know if there are cash incentives right now? My guys says they are not, and I believe him - done business with him in the past and I think he's a very straight shooter. But you never know!

dave_ramkumar

iTrader: (5)

i think its a good deal...$550 a month isnt bad...what does the serive plan mean?...will they change anbd fix anything that needs to be fixed?

GrigioTL

I usually take dealer quotes with a grain of salt unless I have it on paper. Even with a quote in my hand, the sales manager at the dealership changed the numbers the day I was going to pull the trigger. His excuse - the SH-AWD Tech was hard to find (true at the time). I had to get the sales director involved who told the sales manager that he could not change the numbers he quoted me. I got a very good lease deal on my car but the piece of paper I kept was key.

jjsC5

I have a print out of the entire lease worksheet that shows exactly how it was arrived at. And trust me, I understand leasing and buying cars. I've owned 57 cars, 12 motorcycles and four boats. All but one of them was bought brand new. I've probably leased 7 or 8 of them.

mlb11

saw1's deal is certainly excellent, but it also depends on where in the country he is located. I've seen some seemingly unbelievable pricing on Acuras in California....

GrigioTL

I wasn't questioning the dealer quote you got. I was just sharing my experience - more of a generalization.

winstrolvtec

At $1k under invoice and based on last months rates and residual I was at $564 a month for 36 months 12k, that's basic fees and first month only, so tax and aquisition fee rolled in. I probably won't lease either I just wanted to compare.

This month I believe the residual dropped 1% so that puts it at $576. The MF depends on region but my numbers are in line with saw's, 56% last month but now 55% and a MF of .00154.

Saw, based on your numbers for the original quoted deal and amount of out of pocket expense something was a little off but it works out for this months 1% lower residual which is where we are anyway. Either it includes a security deposit which I doubt because of lease loyalty or they overquoted you for any given reason.

So $580 range is accurate for this month and is a great deal being right around invoice. I think you could try to get them down another $1k and that should save you around $30 a month more, so it would be a little over $550 a month, at $1k under.

winstrolvtec

^My bad, I missed the update which happens to be an amazing deal and unless I could pull the same thing off with the G I would get the TL even if I didn't like it as much just for the fact that the dealer is letting it go that cheap with no incentives, essentially $1500 under but there was a mention of $1k loyalty cash but you still can't do much if at all any better right now.

jjsC5

I have to ask again, how are they going to sell you at $1000 under invoice unless there are factory incentives? I have been told there aren't any, and if you go on Edmunds they don't list any.

Can someone clarifiy, or are you just guessing that it's available? I understand some regional differences, but $60 a month is a lot for a regional difference.

Please understand the reason I'm questioning so much is that I'm withing a week or two of pulling the trigger on one and I'm really trying to find out if these deals are real and how they are getting to them. I know my sales guy pretty well - I've bought from him before and I think he's being honest with me.

jjsC5

Thanks!

winstrolvtec

You are right JJ there are no incentives on an SH but most dealers have to sell at invoice or near invoice just to move product right now and if you go the internet quote route and make the dealers very competitive it is not that hard in this market.

Make it known that you will buy the car at the lowest possible price from whoever gives that to you but you will close the deal with them if they give it to you for x amount.

jjsC5

Maybe you missed my post - I am at $200 over invoice. Even if they go to invoice, reducing their price $200 over a three year lease is only another $6 a month. The figures in the posts above are $60 a month less than my quote - which amounts to over $2,000 in sales price difference. That's why I'm having trouble believing someone is getting a quote in the $580 range.

bf17738

So I myself am interested in a '10 TL SH-AWD 6spd and got a quote from 2 dealers for $560/month with taxes, first month and fees up front. It's based on the NY region's 56% residual and MF of .00154 (3.7%) on 36 months/10k miles.

It seems you guys are beating that? Any advice? This would be my 3rd TL from Rallye Acura... (I also got the same quote from Smithtown)

I ran a lease calc on the deal and it seems they are selling me the SH-AWD Tech (MSRP $43195) for about $40700 or so... Then Acura called today saying that Acura is offering $1000 off... so that would drop the payment to $530/month.... it seems you guys are STILL beating that! It seems that with that $1000 more off it would make the selling price $39700. According to Edmunds, that about $59.00 less than invoice.

I'm paying my taxes upfront, so how are u guys getting a better lease than me if ur taxes are rolled in and u are getting 12k miles??????

HELP!

winstrolvtec

The first thing would be to establish the selling price and what your rates actually are. BF your lease is in line with what you are saying but Saw's update seems a little to good to be true if it includes taxes but even at that if the dealer sold him at $1500 below invoice and he has another $1k in lease loyalty than it's feasible.

JJ your deal is at least $1k dollars away from most of the other deals we are looking at and that can cost around $30 a month and the 15k miles cost at least another $20. Still it doesn't add up for one of two reasons, you pay the higher MF of .00201 in Texas which can cost you another $30 a month or you are paying full tax. These guys like to play with numbers so while you may actually be getting a credit they may not be discounting the car as much as they say in the first place.

jjsC5

I've already told you how much they are discounting the car - it's $200 over invoice. Actually, its $400 over what you would see on Edmunds, but they have a $200 advertising fee on the invoice here (which I consider legit when negotiating an "invoice plus" deal.

I'll post all the numbers later - got to go to dinner now.

bf17738

ok, another opinion question... Do u think the lease rates might get better come January? or worse?

the residual shouldnt get worse since the car will have only been out 1-2 months.... Hoping the money factor improves! 3.7% (0.00154) is horrible!

jjsC5

I'm sure you are looking at overall interest rates such as savings and prime lending rate. But if you do your homework, you'll find that anything better than about a .00220 is actually pretty good. You may not like it - but that is the market today.

Here is my entire deal (offer) I have now...

List 43,195
Capitalized cost (negotiated sell price) 40,186
Term 36 months/15,000 miles per year
Residual 53%
Money Factor .00201
Total add caps (acquisition fee, document, license fees) 891.05
Adjusted Cap Cost 41,559.28
Sales Tax 482.23
Base Monthly rental 648.05

Note, this is with no money down - including taxes - they are in the payment.