007Acura

here is a link to the article http://www.insideline.com/acura/tl/2...full-test.html

JAB00

It looks pretty good from that shot.

darmok

Great stuff!

YetiTL

FWIW, C&D posted 5.2/13.8 for acceleration numbers.

As for the rest of the article, I think it's a great review.

FWIW #2, I think it's cool to see some better reviews as it'll surely help Acura to sell a few more TLs. I know the 6MT is only 5% of the production but if this 5% is easily sold and get great reviews/support, maybe it'll point the management in the right direction to go with their 4G TL.

George Knighton

That was on the all seasons, too.

But in defence of everybody else, the C&D group have always had some good drag racers.

I'm not sure it'd even dawn on most people that you can get a 13.8 if you're launching at 4 grand.

SebringSilver

A well-designed facelift in mid-cycle for this 4th gen TL, and replacing some of the hard plastics in the interior with better materials and this car can be a real winner.

George Knighton

What hard plastics?

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Nice!

SebringSilver

Um, the cheap hard plastic in your car's interior. It's everywhere.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Pretty positive review of the TL 6MT.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

sorry- i didn't see any hard plastic (other than that titanium trim or whatever they call it) in the 2010 loaner i had last week while my 3G was in service dept either.

YetiTL

If Aucra put higher quality stuff (to replace hard plastics on the door panel surface), you can be sure they'll charge us for it. So how much is it worth to you? 200? 500? 1k$?

I'm ok with the interior and FWIW, I think the interior is awesome as it is.

TechnoCat

Hey, we get it. On the one hand, y'all consider the TL to be absolutely the equivalent of any Audi/BMW/luxo-sedan, on the second hand you can't tell the difference between soft and hard plastics (or nice hinges or flat trunk or lacking headlight washers or quiet sunroof or fullauto rear windows or underseat drawers or selectable units on displays...), while on the third hand you feel that they are well-left-off because they would raise the price of the car... even though you can buy an Audi A4 or a BMW 328i with those features in the same price range.

Cute.

George Knighton

Are you sure you've looked into an SH-AWD 6-6? It's mostly leather and metal.

There was a conscious effort to minimise plastics and other artificial materials because of the feeling that more and more data are being produced that appear to indicate that plastics put off gasses that make people feel generally unwell.

In many cases that something appears to be hard plastic, it is recycled natural material.

The dippled silver trim is real metal, not plastic.

YetiTL

Technocat, I think you read way too much in what we write on forums. FWIW, in my city, an A4 or 328 is costlier than a TL MT or AT SH-AWD tech, not by much but still. Once you optioned it out, there's a good difference in favor of the TL. So basically, I'm trading the more noble materials and the luxury touches for a 305 hp V6/ better tech/ more space & reliability. What good is a car if I can't even get in it and drive it confortably for hours because it's too small and/ or I'm too tall?

I didn't write that it wouldn't be nice to have nicer materials but I'm sure Acura will charge us for it, one way of the other. And if my TL came equipped with wood trims, I wouldn't have bought it. For me, wood trims = cars for gramps.

Thirdly, I consider the TL to be a viable alternative to the A4 and 328i but they're not the same products. Each have their strengths and weaknesses.

Lastly, while you might miss all the stuff you wrote and I'm sorry for you, I really am as going from Audi to Acura must be hard for you but, frankly and in all respect, I don't care about it as I don't have a need for them and I surely not miss them. I also don't want to pay for it. Acura could easily put a prestige package with all that stuff and charge you for it but they didn't and I can't say why (other than not killing the RL straight off with a TL Prestige package).

Now please, more stuff on topic and less off topic replies.

SebringSilver

I hate arguing, especially on the internet, so if you want to believe that the interior of the Acura TL SH-AWD is "mostly leather and metal", that's fine.

SebringSilver

Anyway, back on topic, given the accolades that some automotive authorities are now lauding on the TL SH-AWD in terms of performance, I'm curious...how many of you have taken your 4G TL (SH-AWD or otherwise) to sustained speeds of, say, 120 mph? (Disclaimer: I know that's well in excess of the speed limit in most states and provinces, but I'm just curious.) Was it reasonably stable at those relatively high speeds?

I recall from when I had a 3G TL A-Spec, albeit briefly, that it sounded quite harsh and that quite severe vibrations could be felt throughout the chassis when traveling at sustained high speeds. Just wondering if Acura has managed to improve the high-speed stability of the car in its current guise.

jspagna1

I find that the interior of the TL is one of the nicest and
sophisticated around for a Luxury car. It's all business.
As for a redesign, I don't think they will do anything too drastic. If the change the facias/grille, that would be it. They will probably keep the basic body style as is. Thank God for aftermarket parts.

YetiTL

Took mine to the limiter around 130 mph. Felt fine on a long straight and level road like a drag strip.

I wouldn't do that on a public road in Quebec with the overall poor quality of the road network.

George Knighton

I certainly did not mean to cause offence. If you have time to point out to me something in particular to look at, I would be happy to do it.

I mean, we know that there's going to be all kinds of plastic in all kinds of cars, but according to the chief engineer on the project a definite concerted effort was made to maximise natural and recycled materials and to minimise the use of traditional plastics.

I am not sure what you mean by sustained speeds, but I've had the SH-AWD 6-6 on a track big enough where you'd reach that speed and more for seconds at a time.

IMHO, the car is for drivers who might know what they are doing at those speeds. The nature of the beast is that it will point very quickly...so as with any number of cars at speed you will have to be measured and smooth.

Honestly, I think this car is for people who really like driving but who might need a larger car for daily driving, for whatever reasons. I am not sure it is a car that the majority of the world's drivers are going to be comfortable in because it is meant for people who love cars and love driving enough to pay attention to what they are doing.

TechnoCat

I've put some serious speed into mine.

• Engine seems pretty fantastic. No low end torque, but at speed you don't care.
• Handling is very good (except in lousy weather, where the Audi Torsen Quattro is better.)
• Sometimes the car shakes, as if a wheel is unbalanced. I haven't figured this one out yet. But mostly very composed.

Overall, I'd say the high-speed performance is better than I expected. Maybe not as nimble as an Audi or BMW, but beats Mercedes, and not as out-of-touch at speed as the Audi. (Audis have even more out-of-touch steering than the TL!)

George Knighton

I think that you can cause the clutch pack in the LSD to chatter if you try hard enough. :-)

SebringSilver

No offence taken.

By "sustained", I meant not just hitting an indicated 120 mph briefly and then slowing back down to normal speeds right away. I guess "cruising" would be the better word to use. I bring this up because I feel that the true measure of a car's "quality" is not so much how many bells and whistles it comes with, and whether it uses a better leather than its competitor does, but rather the performance of the car under slightly more extreme circumstances. The true character of a car only comes to the fore when you push it.

In that respect, I feel that you can develop a better understanding of the engineering that actually went into a car by observing its behaviour when it approaches its (and probably your) limits. In most of the German cars that I've had, high speed cruising (speeds above 100 mph) is a non-event. The cars invariably feel rock solid and very planted. The only Japanese car I would be able to say the same for (from personal experience anyway) would be my two NSXs.

I had high hopes for the TL that I bought back in 2005. Alas, it was not to be as it too became quite unstable at anything beyond 100 mph, plus the sounds that the engine was making under those stress levels were really quite unpleasant.

If these types of issues have been addressed in the 4G, I would say Honda/Acura is going about making improvements to the TL in the right areas, and over the lifetime of one's ownership of the car, these attributes could well outshine the design and quality of things such as interior appointments.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Not sure why you lumped me in on your useless rant. I have no dog in the fight. I was just giving my opinion on what I saw from my experience. Online forums are a great learning tool. If you would like to educate me on where there is an abundance of hard plastics in the TL, I am willing to listen. I have no problems eating crow if I'm wrong. We are all here to learn but don't clutter up this thread with off topic posts.

winstrolvtec

Having owned the 3G A-spec with PS2's and the TLS with the standard all seasons, the difference between the two was still night and day even with the tire upgrade. Surprisingly, I don't recall harshness or vibration and maybe that was a testament to the tire and/or always maintaining proper torque spec of the lug nuts and air inflation. Also, a little more psi is usually required when you want to travel at those speeds. It's in the owners manual. Nonetheless it was still a little uneasy at those speeds.

Just to clarify my qualifications for making these statements, I used to highway commute the same route daily for over 10 years so I got up over a hundred mph every day and sometimes for sustained periods. Not safe but when no one else is around and you know the roads and the trooper hiding spots well, you can take your chances.

Now that I think about it the A-spec suspension was very overrated, it was mostly cosmetic. The TLS was the real deal, always planted and composed no matter the speed or the tire, generally speaking.

What I find amazing about the 4G SH despite the added size and weight is that when SH acts mostly on FWD, it still behaves very much like the TLS and in some ways better. I notice what I think is a hint more roll or lean but only when you are not on the gas, otherwise it is more composed over bumps and road imperfections. It does feel tighter to the road but at the same time better dampened. Now I haven't gone 120 mph in it but I would imagine it would do just as well if not better than the S because of this.

As far as the interior, the 4G has some hard plastics when compared even to the 3G TL. For the most part the interior is very nice and the design, one of the best in all the luxury segments. Couple of reasons already touched on, one about the organic compounds and another, I believe is for added rigidity and sturdiness. The 3G just felt kind of spongy soft and made the interior structures feel weak and that is probably why the car had so many rattle issues early on and they could damage easily also.

Areas like the lower dash, side pockets, and door handles are now hard plastic. Of course this will be viewed as cheap but IMO, coming from the 3G, it's mostly an upgrade. It was done very well in that they used it for lower section of the interior so it's barely noticeable unless you go touching everything. While other areas like the dash, aluminum trims, leather, center console, inside the glove compartment and window sill areas have been much improved in both touch and build and are among some of the best materials you will find in any car.

4G Express

This post is a real winner

TechnoCat

Get yourself into an Audi A4 3.2, A6 or BMW 335 for a bit. If you don't see and feel the hard plastics in the TL, it's not because they're not there, but because you're accustommed to the even harder plastics in cheaper cars such as Saturn and so the TL's seem nice.

Or you could turn that around. Audi and BMW have more of a velvety softer finish on their interiors. But those of us from those cars view that as the normal. It's all in the perspective, except when discussing whether the TL is in the same class as those specific cars.

George Knighton

I agree completely!! I think that we should all go to the track with our daily drivers so that we understand the cars more perfectly, and have an understanding of the dynamics involved at high speeds.

I like and am more than satisfied with my TL 6-6, but I can understand that based on your past experience you're unlikely to take anybody else's word that it's a good car.

SebringSilver

I certainly hope I haven't given you or anyone else that impression. I think the TL is a very good car. I like its combination of features, spaciousness, competent performance, and price. But I always try to be objective about my cars' strengths and weaknesses, and where they sit in the overall hierarchy of the automotive landscape.

Peace out.

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

You're right. I've saved all my life for a TL and I finally got one. The Saturns and Chevy's I've been driving all my life are nothing compared to my 3G TL.

How does it feel to be slumming it with us TL owners?



Seriously though, since you own a 2010 TL, could you tell me where the hard plastics are? When I had the loaner for the few hours that I did, I really was just focusing on the dashboard, looking at body panels, door panels and the like. I guess I didn't pay attention enough, that's why I am asking.

***EDIT*** forget about- don't bother I don't want to know. I have derailed this thread long enough.

Colin

^^ probably the biggest culprit are the lower sections of the door panels (map pocket). The 3G had squishy vinyl there and a fold out pocket.

Ramrodthrusterpuppy

I love German cars and I adore the new S4, but I was appalled by the amount of hard plastic in the interior of that car. I mean the door pulls are hard plastic! The one part of the car that you touch constantly should have the most luxurious material on it. Sorry, Audi used to set the benchmark for well designed and appointed interiors but they've started to go on the cheap now. I could (possibly) understand that in a base A4 but not the premium S4.

I also wouldn't consider BMW's interiors any higher grade, as far as materials, than the TL. In fact, some of the switchgear seems of a definite lower grade.

I also firmly believe the true measure of an exceptional car is not just interior appointments or design or performance alone...but a sum of all those parts and how they work together as a cohesive unit. I'm far from an Acura fanboy but the TL definitley does that.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Also there is some hard plastic around the shifter gauge and the inner door handle area just above the leather (vinyl?) arm rest on the door. There are plastics, but what is used is scarce and/or not too viewable.

I think what set it off was the poster's initial tone that implied the interior was quite cheap as compared to an Audi or BMW. These comparisons never cease to amaze me. I have yet to see any BMW/Audi that gives me the same, plus additional features, for the same price as my Acura.

George Knighton

Yesterday, I made a point to look for plastic. I found more than I knew was there, but I still appreciate what the chief engineer said about trying to limit the use of plastics.

A surprising amount of the soft surfaces appear to be leather instead of a vinyl designed to look like leather. The double stitching is pretty neat and well done, too.

Yeah, that has nothing to do with the topic but you guys had me out there looking at my car with a microscope, so there you go. :-p

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

My TL felt rock solid at 120mph, even at 135mph but that's after being lowered and with wider wheels/tires.

TechnoCat

Certainly true; for the same price, you get a bunch of features from the Acura. More is true with a Kia; Acura can't give you the same, plus additional features, of a loaded Kia at a $30K price point.

What happens in the threads is that someone compares the TL favorably to a BMW or Audi, and pretends there are no negative comparisons also. At the same price point, you give up in the Acura some interior niceness and many small finishing touches (listed in previous posts - and some are big deals to some of us.) At the same price point in the Audi, you give up gobs of power, a few features (but not many because at that price point you can option them back in) and a bit of legroom... but gain those finishing touches. At the same price point in the BMW, you can keep (or even gain) the power, but lose a lot of the features (e.g. Nav/Bluetooth/iPod.) Both German marques sacrifice reliability but add prestige.

The TL isn't necessarily the "better" car, or even value, because it depends on your needs and desires as to which you'd be better off with at that price point.

George Knighton

There sure are a lot of very reasonable people in this forum. It's good to see.

prepreludesh

He's trying to make us agree with each other!!

BURN HIM AT THE STAKE!!!

AcidHorse

Did you see the title? BUTTER FACE. Oh, how funny. Too bad there's no bag big enough.

Monte TLS,MAX

On the subject of interiors and interiors only even though they cost more than the TL, the Lexus GS and LS has top notch interiors. From the quality of materials used to the way they feel (top notch all around the dash, door etc.) and look imo.