Six Shifter

Got back last night from the Cadillac V-Series Performance Academy held at the Monticello Motor Club in Monticello NY where I got some butt time behind the wheels of the new CTS Coupe, the CTS V-Sedan and the new CTS V-Coupe. All I can say is if Acura doesn't create a coupe version of either the RL (honoring the original concept of the LEGEND) or the TL with SH-AWD and a stick, I may be going (can I force myself to say it ...) domestic!

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

You'll be paying that much more for a Caddy, though.

Six Shifter

i think you'd be surprised. They are coming out with a CTS4 - had one on display inside the club.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Can't wait. RWD + more HP + manual tranny + comparable price = my business.

docboy

Going to buck the trend of holding onto cars near the 200k mile mark?

MyT6MT

+1 if better!

EDIT: BTW... I do love my TL! It is by far the best car I have ever owned! ALL AROUND!

MurkyRiversTL

Cadillac's are nice, but I cant see myself driving the coupe. Ill take the sedan any day.

ostrich

Hey, Six Shifter, are you sure you will go domestic!? I did look at the CTS before I bought my TL SH-AWD.... it drove surprisingly nicely, but I just could not get used to the interior design. The dashboard and console design was just not my cup of tea. I could not stand the wood steering wheel.... so "old"!!! Then some of them have chrome wheels and things.... way too "bling bling" for me. Mind you, there was one nice design touch though - the odometer and speedometer can be switched between US and metric units with just one button! Much more sensible than Acura there.

The scariest thing was really the clientele in the dealership - I looked around and I knew that I really would not "fit in" there.......

draph

If you want domestic luxury sedan with a stick, be prepared to order without a dealer test drive.

Before buying my TL, I stopped in at a Cadillac dealer for a test drive. There was one MT CTS base on a lot in the entire US at the time (800 mi away) and no others (not even a CTS V). The last time I checked, the build your own on the website only implied MT was available on base car - and this was almost a year after the car mags tested MT with the DI V6 and CTS-V 6MT. GM clearly is doing only token things to market to MT enthusiasts.

It's been this way for years. Lincoln LS was available with a manual the first couple of years (no one stocked them). The same holds true for coupes (Grand Prix GT and Lumina LTZ come to mind - car mags test drove MTs but no dealer had the cajones to have one available for a test drive.

I'm waiting to see if/how GM convinces Buick dealers to bring Regals with MTs to their lots for a test drive. I WILL NEVER buy an MT car without a test drive to see how clutch, shifter, etc. feel and work - it's too big a part of how an MT car drives.

I was only pleasantly surprised when Pontiac dealers got G8 GXP 6MTs for test driving. I was actually planning to buy one in 2010 after test driving one in March 2009. I'm still depressed about that one - likely my last chance to buy a brand new affordable V8 sedan with MT. Thank you greenies and CAFE... Still wonder why Chrysler isn't putting the 6MT from the Challenger into the Charger or 300C sedans...

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

I am 62 right now, so in 10 years when my SH-AWD is 10 years old, I will most likely get a Cadillac, after all I will be over 70 so it fits! Well Almost, I will need to move from San Diego to New York, then it all fits perfectly! Just the truth!

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

The TL is domestic. The part content is what 90% domestic? The car was styled in California and its built right here in Marysville, Ohio. Its as domestic as a CTS so no one should make any domestic comments

The CTS is a higher level car, even in base form. The CTS-V is an EXPLOSION of power and performance.

Cadillac has expanded the CTS from RWD and V-6 to Sedan, Coupe, Wagon, V-models

AWD and RWD being offered.

What is more bling that the beak and chrome rear?

ostrich

The difference is that the beak stands out, but the CHROME WHEELS are just "bling bling"!!! LOL

You are right that the TL is pretty much domestic!!! I guess it has the reliability and re-sale value of a Japanese car though.....

Six Shifter

It's happened before. Only kept my 2000 Maxima 88K before trading for the CL, and the M3 gave it's life to protect mine at the 93K mark.

All a personal preference. I've never considered myself a sedan driver, and if it weren't for the existence of the stick I'd have never owned one ... let alone two. It all depends on what's available at the time. As the CTS Coupe is only going to enjoy a 3 year run on this platform, I have a bit of time to decide.

The demographic for the Caddy's is slowly getting younger. This is not your grandfathers Caddilac, but I agree there are some touches in the car which are intended for the Florida retirement crowd. Fortunately, I think they would all be seen in a sedan anyway. And 'some' stealerships have gotten the message about books and covers. Need be, I can probably contact the dealership in Mass that I got my Vette thru, as they also sell Caddy's.

Which is why I took Caddilac up on their invitation to drive them at a racetrack. I turned down the offer to track the Sedan with the stick because there was just too much to do in such a short period of time to be concerned with anything but brake and gas ... but the point is they did have a few sticks around for those who wanted to drive that configuration, and in my last session for the day I was first out on the course in the CTS V-Coupe with the MT. Very nice short throw ... better than almost any other 6 speed I've ever driven except possibly the SLK 350. No better way ... outside of getting a Hertz rental ... to really 'test drive' a vehicle ... especially one of this nature.

Yes, it is, with the MT (as was the case in the '03 CL) being built in Japan. Next time I'll be sure to use the phrase domestic brand to not offend the local UAW workforce.

draph

...too bad for them not every MT sports sedan enthusiast got such an invitation.

I'm not "anti-domestic" brand. I actually am a former GM employee (in one of the units they sold off back in 1997) who still has the full employee discount (they keep extending it). However, if they keep making it too difficult for me to try out and buy what I want, they still won't get my business. The G8 GXP was the closest they got in 13 years (bought the wife an Olds Silhouette in 1997 - yeah, less than a year before the first "real" Odyssey van came out - GM, IMHO, had the best minivan for about 1 year).

By the time I'm ready to replace my TL, I bet the Regal will no longer be available with an MT. The dealers will say "they didn't sell". The Chevy dealers might be a bit more willing to stock a "Malibu SS" with the old Cobalt SS drive train (essentially what the Regal GS is getting). When the young Camaro MT driver needs to move to a 4-door for the family, would he/she be more apt to move over to a Buick Regal GS, or stay in the Chevy line?

I'm still convinced the GM marketing execs are morons when it comes to attracting enthusiast buyers...

jspagna1

I,m still not convinced about the quality of domestic vehicles. They just don't have the quality of the Jap brands and they just don't hold the resale value as well either.
If your in it for the lang haul I still choose the Jap cars.

MurkyRiversTL

^ your choice of words amuse me

PenguinTL

I wish I could say the same, but my 2011 Mustang convertible has less rattles than my TL We were just joking the other day that it's a pretty sad state of affairs when a pony car seems to have better inital quality than an Acura. Oh, and don't try to trade in your TL anytime soon. Resale is in the tank compared to the 3rd gen TL.

I have to take it in this week for a rear deck rattle that can be heard over the radio, and need 4 new centercaps - paint is chipping off all 4 of them. Oh well.

I still looooove driving the car, but some of the fit and finish combined with the domestic-like rebates they are giving out has me questioning my decision sometimes. I'm sure I'll get flamed for that, but you don't find much more of a diehard Honda/Acura fan than me...so my doubts hold some weight, IMO.

TechnoCat

My 2010 TL SH-AWD (which I traded in two days ago) was...

• Very domestic - designed and built in Ohio
• Not a great car. Tons of rattles. Foam rubber kept popping out of the rear spoiler.

I really liked the Lincoln mkZ I drove for two months earlier this year, but for the complete package I had to go back to the Germans.

In general I think all the quality metrics are so much higher than 20 years ago, and so close together, as to make them essentially the same. I've heard horror stories about Audis, but mine were very reliable. The Subarus I've been involved with were basically trouble-free except for persistent rattles also (must be a Japanese cultural thing - the spirit of the car or something.) We had some challenges with a Toyota Tacoma pickup truck though, and computer issues with a Toyota Forerunner... even though those should be reliable. So there seems to be some luck-of-the-draw in action.

compewterbleu

Still not convinced enough to buy from GM, Ford's own line is more impressive than the Lincoln line, the styling its like futuristic old folk styling. And outside of Porsche unless it's a 6 or 7 series BWM it doesn't impress me in the overall quality and build. MB, rode and drove several but again the higher end models. I guess the thing about complete package is that you truly have to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. I don't get comparing a $70k car to a $40k and saying it's justified. Sure the $70k at time could truly be a $60K car if the name was subtracted from the price, but still, that's what a kiwi to star fruit comparison?


American manufactures were pressed before by the Japanese automakers so what happened then was Uncle Sam went up on import taxes and governed design specs to death. I recall when Honda in the early '80s had a nasty front end headlight design that got nixed not by regulations, but fear from our gov't that Honda was moving to far ahead of US manufacture offerings. How did the Japanese counter...they started manufacturing cars in the US. One thing to remember about the cars built by Honda/Acura in the US is that it's not that they are simply built here. Oh no, it's the TQM, total quality management process, their beliefs and practices in manufacturing that are followed here as closely as they are in Japan.

As you said every car has it's lemons and related design flaws. I think it's on record that Acura's long term quality rating is always in the top tier.

compewterbleu

I live blocks from a Caddy dealership...saw the coupe, looks are already dated, the SRX is the Saturn Vue...considered Caddy several times, but I am still of the mindset that it's cram a bunch of horse power in a pretty package and let'er rip. And the price $60,720, didn't see that low price on the one I looked at and 14 / 19 mpg, hmm.

smarty666

I like the CTS Sedan and coupe designs but that is about it. Nothing else from Caddy has impressed me as of late and even in the CTS there is just too much plastic all over the place and a few mis-align interior pieces. The reliability of them is still not up to the Japanese and even some German luxury par yet. Its improving but not matched. I've had luxury vehicles from Caddy, MB, Infiniti, and Acura over the years. The japanese ones have still to this day been the most reliable. MB had one or two little things that were easily fixed but my Caddy had a lot of problems and couldn't wait to get rid of it. Going to take a long time for me to ever consider going back to the domestics after 30 years of consistent poor products from Chevy, Buick, Pontiac, and Caddy that I had and nearly went bankrupt to keep running.

Mr Marco

C'mon we're in a recession! Bought a used SHO for 20K, sold it for 2K in 6 years.


Isn't the reason why we buy HMC products because they offer the best bang for the buck, (You can't buy a comp. car for the price of the TL). I'm on my 7th HMC and have three in the garage right now. (One is a HRC-216 Mower) Everything else I have owned did not live up to this level of value.

Caddy is nice, but that tranny hump in the front passenger foot well of the CTS was a turn off.