JTC1

OK - I know this forum will have a hard time being objective. But we are all car people here. So the facts are: Bimmer has 10K miles and its pristine. includes sport package, Nav, cold weather, etc., and that sweet 3.5 twin turbo motor. Sadly a slushbox tranney. But man this car wants to go. The pro's are great handling and just right suspension, feels incredible solid - like driving a bank vault. A few cool features such as incredible headlights with xenon hi-beans that turn, heated steering wheel (I live in MN), very nice design in and out, free maintenance for 3 more years. Service required only every 15k miles. Con's - shiver at the thought of being a BMW guy!, NAV (lack of rear view camera) and audio dont hold a candle to TL tech, no smart access keyless system on this car, will always be waiting for a weird noise to develop in the engine or tranny. I am getting less patient with car problems.
You guys allready know the pro's of the TL 6mt - incredible reliability, Acura will often come to your rescue even if out of warranty, new Nav system w/ crisp resolution is very nice, sweet shifting 6mt and silky engine make driving a fun and engaging expereince. Cons - design. Interiro is a bit busy with 100's of buttons (But I am very tech friendly and enjoy mastering all of the features). Already have a 09 mdx - a little variety in the garage might be nice.

My thought if I go TL is to get a black or Silver TL 6mt with ebony. 18's (or diamond cut 19's - though I dont want the ride to get too harsh). Even with 18's I will swap out to hi-po summer tires with dedicated wheels rims for winter. Will either paint grille to body color of look at the sport grille.

THOUGHTS?? Thanks in advance.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

TL for 3 reasons:

1. Reliability
2. It's new
3. Reliability

SG81

iTrader: (1)

definitely TL

George Knighton

If you never drive the TL 6-6, then you might be satisfied with the BMW's all wheel drive.

If you have driven the SH-AWD 6-6, then I do not think that you are going to be satisfied with the BMW AWD, which is simply inferior. BMW AWD is more of a safety and winter driving AWD, not a handling oriented AWD.

I would not be satisfied after owning a TL 6-6.

IMHO.

Pete2010

Are you going to sell the car when the warranty runs out?
Buy the BMW. Then when you sell it, get the TL.

Are you going to keep the car after the warranty?
Buy the TL

I would only get a BMW if I leased it, there is no way I would ever want to keep one past 3 years, or past the warranty. My neighbor bought a 5 series same time as I bought by TL (6months). He's been driving a dealer car at least 3 times while having stuff fixed.

JTC1

Help me understand the reference to 6-6? Is the 6cyl - 6mt?

I did test drive the SH-AWD in a 6mt and was blown away by the handling (with all seasons). I could feel the right rear wheel driving (almost felt like it grew a few inches) the car around the hard left turn.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Spyris

I didn't really consider the 535ix because of a few reasons:
1) Looks a bit outdated especially with the new models just around the corner. I actually love the TLs polarizing look, and I think that the design is a little futuristic - which will make the car not as dull even 5 years from now.
2) Reliability - I plan to keep my car for at least 8 years, hey I did get AcuraCare 8/100k just for peace of mind.
3) Cost of ownership and pretty much cost of the car. TL to me was just a better bang for the buck with all the amenities that came with the tech package.

docboy

+1000

If you don't care about reliability, don't mind paying for maintenance, desire the BMW badge, go for the 535xi.

If you care about reliability, want historical Acura peace of mind, don't mind the badge as much, go for the TL.

Both are nice cars to drive though.

A friend of mine has a 535. He regrets buying it, hates the maintenance on it, and is looking for a Japanese make (Lexus).

PsychDoc

Just for a bit of balance (so don't shoot me). I am assuming that you can get either one for roughly the same price. Keep in mind that the BMW initially would cost about $58k or about $16k more than the TL. You're getting the car "in pristine condition" with only ~10k miles on it (and living in MN my suspicion is that those are pretty relaxed miles vs. let's say NYC miles). Say what you will, but BMW has no peer in driving dynamics or 'fun-to-drive.' If it were me, I think I might take the BMW by a small margin. And, as someone else said, if you're planning on keeping it for a lot longer than the three year warranty, you may want to go the TL route as BMW service is obscenely expensive and they can be snotty to boot. But car for car my money's on the BMW for the same price.

Don't get me wrong, I love my TL and I despise the NAV systems in BMW's (they're worse than a $300 Garmin), but with the parameters you've set up here, I think you'd be crazy to pass on the 535xi.

JTC1

When I read that people hate the maintenance on a 535 - they must mean the repairs. As one nice thing about the 535 is they only need service every 15k miles!

JTC1

Well said. The price info is: TL 6mt without HP Summers is $39,100 used bmw is $43K. AS you said - Nav is less usefull than cheap garmin, but the driving dynamics are very nice. TL can outcorner it - but the amazing ability of the BMW to be both complaint and sporty is 2nd to none.
HOWEVER - google some actual owner reviews - and look out. Fuel pump issues galore...

JTC1

Also, odd to read so many people complain about price of SH-AWD TL with Tech - while a 335 or 535xi withour nearly the content of the TL is 15-25K more. Yet not as much bickering about price.

Pete2010

Yea, you may only "maintenance" ever 15k miles. But you can almost guarantee you'll have something else come up that needs fixing.

It's also not that much more than the TL, most of the time you only need to change the oil every 7-9k miles, per the MID.

btomcik

Get the Bimmer. Assuming you have the financial abilities to do this, if the BMW gives you problems a couple years down the road, dump it and get a TL. Maybe the TL will at that time then have a V8.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I think you may have answered your own question when you said you're getting less patient with car problems. No one that I know with a BMW has had a trouble free experience. The 335 turbo seems to have had at least its share. (My neighbor's brand new 535 has been in the shop more than not - he has more miles on his service loaner than his new car). That and price made the car not a serious option for me.

I think you'd be more than satisfied with the TL 6MT, especially at those dollar values. It's not perfect but it's a great sports sedan with lots of room for kids, etc. and even decent gas mileage, considering its size and capabilities.

Good luck.

Monte TLS,MAX

Yeah the guys here are right, Bimmers tend to have problem and you will be in maintenance alot. My neighbors 2 doors down 08 335 has been a reliability nightmare, one day he even talked to me about having it "gone" if you get me! He had a 07 IS350 that was totalled, he said he should have just got another 1.........

TechnoCat

To play the other side, the BMW will probably have fewer rattles, a quieter sunroof, a look more consistent with a luxury car and comfortable seats (in other words, no evil head restraint trying to crick your neck).

And, as one poster already said, the TL has astonishly bad AWD for bad-weather driving. (Actually, what he said is that BMW's is tuned for that, while Acura's is for performance. But what this has meant for me is that my TL does corner as well - perhaps a bit better than - during the four dry months a year in Seattle, while the BWM should do better during the ugly six months of a year... and be more helpful at preventing accidents.)

The TL will be lower maintenance, and is definitely more sports-car like in my mind.

Summary:

• Do you want a conservative or an edgy/polarizing look?
• AWD for safer poor weather driving, or for higher summer-day speeds?
• Conservative comfort, or lower maintenance costs with a polarizing look and (for many) painful head restraints?
• A used car or a new car?
• A sports-SEDAN or a SPORTS-sedan?

winstrolvtec

I take it the 5 is just as polarizing and edgy or did we forget about that already? While the xDrive may be more predictable and more stable in certain situations, it is marginally safer because of that and SH is far safer than driving a FWD or RWD. Actual crash test ratings and rollover are in huge favor of the TL. Techo, I see the position you are taking here and it is the fair jesture but honestly YOUR problems with the TL may not be someone elses, you have to realize that. While some do, others don't have a problem with the look or head restraints, etc, mention it but don't assume it's already someone else's problem.

And to me, next to having a 6MT with SH-AWD nontheless, it comes down to feel. I really enjoy the fact that the TL is more capable than the 5 while offering a more mild feel and driving experience. It is in my opinion that BMW's are always too on edge all the time and I like a little more of a relaxed feel when I am not on it. The TL has a great blend with both aspects in mind and it's an excellent compromise. Without a doubt the 5 inspires more confidence though. The 5 is also more refined but again less reliable for long term, more expensive, and will have a worse resale especially with the new one due out soon enough. So from a financial standpoint alone it's not the better investment but at least you have a warranty and free maintenance right not.

Great cars and when you take the normal price difference out of the equation it's a really tough decision but you can't go too wrong here. It's a matter of figuring out what it is you prefer and what your priorities are.

jspagna1

+1 Totally agree with Pete. I have talked to BMW & MB owners and all I hear from them is that their cars are always in the shop. I don't know about you, but I can not be without a car that is why I buy reliable cars rather than status symbols..

BEAR-AvHistory

Buy the BMW.

Instead of the friend of a friend or a guy down the street here is my actual experience.

'04 330CI power pack 6spd convertible. Bought new, currently 75K+ miles. Recalls 0, TSB, 0 Unscheduled maintenance 0.

06 TL 6spd 43K+ miles. 3 recalls, 1 TSB (transmission), 1 unscheduled (tail light failure)

Based on my and my children's actual experience (currently 4 BMW's, 1 Acura, 2 Honda's) not including a Honda EX V6 with a dead 5AT @ 60K miles that we no longer have, I believe the BMW is underrated & the Hondas are overrated in the area of reliability.

VTX

I'd get the TL.
Did you see the skidpad #s on the SH AWDs? You will not be left wanting a better handling car, such as the 5 series.

When you sell the car after few years, you will lose so much money on the bimmer as well.

I love the 5 series, it is my hope to be able to afford one one day. When I say "afford" one, I mean buying it brand new or certifed used, driving it for a few years, and "don't mind" losing so much in trade in value when I want to get a different car.

Until that day comes, I will stick with the proven Japanese products.

Eli

Anecdotal evidence doesn't matter, all makes have defects. Hondas are just statistically less likely to have them.

SSGHutch

Me thinks your mind may already be made up given the chosen audience. Maybe just looking for a few ppl to agree with your subconscious?

Def TL-SHAWD MT by the way, how can you say no to such a lengthy acronym? Welcome, in advance, to 4G land!

slammie

I also live in MN. And, I'm looking @ both these cars as well, although I could not tolerate a slush box in a 535, but that's just me. 535's with 6spds with low miles are out there, you just have to look nationally.

Little known fact to ease your mind: Subaru has the most reliable drivetrain on the road ever followed by: Honda? Nope! Toyota? No again. Wait for it....BMW is second! Also, the fuel pump in the TT 6 is now warrantied for 10 years on all BMWs.

The 535 is sexy as hell. And, I think it is better set up for winter here in MN with the X-drive, headlight spray, heated steering wheel, etc. Be sure of this, however, if it breaks, you will pay a lot more to have it fixed in comparison to the Acura.

If you can live with the high repair costs, then it's a no brainer.

BEAR-AvHistory

Just a few quick thoughts.

By any reasonable measure the 4G TL is not selling all that well.

If they can't sell it new why would you expect it to have the same high re-sale value of TL models that did sell in the 70-80K units per year range?

The TL was designed in California is built in Ohio with about 85-90% US sourced parts (check the tag on your door frame) including the engine (IIRC the trans comes from Japan) & is sold the US, exported to China & not available in Japan.

Calling the Acura TL a Japanese car is kind of like saying the Vauxhall, Opel & Holden are US cars because GM owns the British, German & Australian subsidiaries.

cp3117

Bear, you must of missed that TSB from a decade or so ago from Acura where every Acura that comes off the assembly line is actually touched by the Hand of God and therefore they never break down.

Your last sentence summed it up perfect. While its true regular maintenance will cost you more, this can also be alleviated a bit by taking it to a independent mechanic that works on German brands etc rather than a dealer.

The reliability thing is way overrated though. Go to both sites, research the vehicles and you will see each vehicle has its issues. "JTC1" I noticed in your OP you mentioned things like "sweet shifting 6MT" "incredible reliability" etc. Take a look over in the 4G Problem area and you will see a couple people who have already or about to Lemon their 4G, The various shifting issues where one member has already had his tranny replaced and the most current issue of people getting their drive shafts replaced due to vibration/noise issues etc etc. Just so some here dont get bent out of shape, im not saying that the 4G is a mechanical nightmare as overall it does have very good reliability but its not indestructible as many believe it is.

The OP needs to choose whats good for him. George and Technocat both made some valid points, but IMO and if my choice I would agree with BEAR and buy the BMW.

docboy

+1

graphicguy

I can say from personal experience with two BMW 3 series (can't speak to the 5 series), you DO NOT want to own a BMW past the warranty period. While, it's just an annoyance when something goes wrong during the warranty period as the dealership takes care of it. Those problems persist (and increase) after the warranty period. Plus, they happen with more frequency. There's nothing that's fairly priced on a BMW....not oil changes, not filter replacements, not brakes, not labor, and certainly nothing which isn't considered "normal" or "routine" repair/replacement.

Now, some of that's offset by not having to pay for anything within the warranty period. But, estimate what that would cost and double it, even triple it, for the work that needs to be done when the warranty expires.

Monte TLS,MAX

The bad part about it is that it takes away from your time (work, school, etc), having to be at the dealerships so often dealing with issues...

JTC1

Hey Slammie - Hmmm a 6 manual in a 535. Did not think they brought those to USA. Having tested the slushbox in the 535 it is not bad in sport mode. If you see any nice 535xi's let me know asap - I am going to mull this over another few days. Was very close to making the decision on the TL - a few things bug me though. Making excuses for the grille, and the fairly high tire/road noise coming into the cabin. And it is a bit over buttoned inside. The BMW does scare me from a repair standpoint - but many people are very happy with them. Nothing seems as solid yet agile on the road though (in this price range). Seems I want to buy the TL with my head (practical, reliable, etc,,) but keep coming back to the fun of driving the 535.

jeowen

The BMW man, especially with the sport package.....hands down- to me...a "car guy" like the rest of us, its not even a question.

PetesTL

All this talk about the 5 series has me thinking about the next gen 5 coming out in a few months. From all the previews I've read, it's supposed to be the best 5 series ever built.....new double-arm suspension supposed to make it handle as well as a 3 series, new 8 -sp auto, new turbo I-6, torque-vectoring X-Drive....yes, the 5 series is still expensive as hell but it is the benchmark. When my current lease is over in about a year, and if no Type-S is announced by then, this may very well be my next car.

jeowen

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BMW>TL across the board in this comparo, imho

Financeman

I lurk this site from time to time as a former owner of a 3G TL who is thinking about purchasing a 4G. As an owner of an older (03) 530i, I can testify to the superior driving dynamics of BMWs....and less than stelar reliability. Even at seven years of age, the BMW has not one rattle or squeek....something I certainly could not say about the 04 TL I once owned (even when new). The 535 is indeed a nice drive....but the turbo charged six has been plagued by HUGE problems with the high pressure fuel pump. Just check out the Bimmerfest forum or Consumer Reports if you are thinking about purchasing a 535i. I would not touch that car without a full warranty and would rid myself of that ride prior to warranty expiration. Like others have said, a new model 5 series has been released and will be in showrooms in June. Candidly, I think the TL is a step down compared to the 5 series, but is far superior in resale and reliability....

slammie

Presently, there's quite a few RWD 535i's on autotrader.com low miles, good price. I did see 1 white 535xi w/ manual for 23k, certified, for just under $40k. Not sure how it is optioned out....brown interior looks nice. I'd post link here but it is too long. Usually there's a few more 535xi's listed...if you can be patient, I'm sure one you like will pop up.

Good luck!

Andy74

1) BMW 535xi doesn't have a 3.5L engine, it's actually 3.0, twin turbo.
2) If you drive the 535i w/sport package and then drive the TL, you will most likely prefer the 535i.
3) If you drive the 535xi w/sport package and compare to TL, the choice will not be as easy. The xi suspension is not really a sport tuned suspension.

Despite reliability issues on the *35 series cars, the BMW has one of the highest owner satisfaction ratings.