Inf123

Hey All, Just been reading up on this forum, and had a few questions.

About 2 years ago I purchased a brand new 2007 Acura CSX, and I kinda vowed that when I could pay off the car, I would look to get a new one.

Fast Forward to now, and I have fully paid off that car, and now was looking to upgrade, and this new TL is one of my choices. However, I have some questions, which I hope some of you can answer:

1) I live up in Canada, where it snows a lot ... and was wondering how much of a difference there would be in going with AWD vs FWD for winter?

2) the reason I ask is cause I read that forum about how many mpg people were getting, and it seemed with the AWD it was getting considerably lower mpg then a fwd. Now from looking at initial specs the only difference between a FWD tech and an AWD Tech is just the bigger engine, and I think upgraded leather seats, and obviously the weight of the AWD is more than the FWD? Is it worth it to go all out and get a AWD tech instead of a FWD tech? Since my CSX was FWD I got pretty use to driving in the winter and didn't really have to many problems, but considering that gas prices may go up in the future and this car requiring premium fuel it could become very costly.

3) Will the bluetooth audio work with the new iphone v3 firmware which allows you to stream your music wirelessly?

4) I'm kinda debating if I should lease vs finance on this car. Since I probabbly will use my 07 CSX as a trade in, I could probabbly get really low lease rates. My question is after the lease is done, in say 3 years and I look to upgrade will I essentially loose money since if I get a new car I can't use the old car as a downpayment (since I didn't own it) and then I would have to be paying quite a bit higher? It really boils down to is once you have financed a car and paid it off is it better to continue to finance future cars or does switching to a lease afterwards, cause you to loose money? (sorry not to familar with leasing)

5) I've noticed all other cars in this price range, seem to have Adaptive Headlights, but going through the website it didn't mention anything about them on this car. Does it actually have them? if not, any idea why? and if it might come out in the 2010 version.

Thanks

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

besides the differences you mentioned, some other notable differences between the AWD model and FWD model are,

-stiffer suspension settings
-18" rims standard (19" is optional)
-shorter final gear (for better acceleration in the expense of fuel economy)
-tires are better
-sportier exhaust note
-front brake cooling ducts

I'm sure there are a few other things but those are the ones I can think of right now.

From my understanding, the AWD model is not just the TL with AWD, it handles quite a bit better and so it's a sportier car. I think you might want to go for a test drive and see which one you like better.

I'd definitely recommend AWD in the snow though. It doesn't help you brake any faster, but after getting stuck a few times (partly my fault because I'm too cheap to get winter tires) in my FWD 02 TL, I really want to have AWD....lol..and as you can see I only live in Vancouver..so the snow isn't really that bad.

Both FWD model and AWD model require premium fuel anyways. If you can live with losing 1-2mpg (~5%), then fuel economy shouldn't be your concern.

I personally would recommend the AWD model, because the AWD system is too awesome...

KeithL

as iforyou pointed out there are a few other things the AWD differs in, but the biggest that all that adds up to is RIDE! The RIDE of the AWD is a different league from the FWD. I didn;t care about AWD, but got it because the FWD was so soft, steering so lite that I hated the FWD. The AWD is like glue on the roads and rides very smooth. Yes the AWD takes abouta 10% MPG hit around town a d little more on HWY especially if you dirve over 70-75MPH. I love the ride of my AWD, if the AWD did nto exist I woudl have bene in a G37 for sure.

boomvader

I agree with both of these guys. I also believe the resale value will be higher on these, too. I highly recommend test driving one. The price difference is not much when you consider all that the AWD package includes.

georgepetrick

Where are you in Canada? It all depends on what you use the car for ... If you plan on driving it hard and lots of highway driving with slippery roads go with the AWD, but if it's a "in city" commuter car the FWD will do just fine. I went with the FWD for the reasons above ... I usually go from work to home and the occational evening drive. I may be older than the norm on this board and I have two kids, so whenever I go out on the weekend with the kids I usually take the SUV. Plus, you will see that the dealer will more flexible in negotiating with the FWD.

Either way ... enjoy.

Inf123

I live up in Edmonton, so it snows a lot here between Nov-Feb, I'll probably go test drive a TL this weekend. Also what would the resale be on this compared to a G37? and any insight on questions 3-5?

Thanks

PsychDoc

Just be sure you like the ride compliance of the AWD car. It rides VERY firm. For me, I'd say way too firm. "Jarring" is a word that comes to mind about the suspension of the AWD car, but then I live in NYC and the roads here are awful. If you have really smooth roads where you're going to be using the car, the AWD may be your ticket to happiness. Otherwise, be very careful.

Inf123

So I drove both the FWD-tech and AWD-tech and both were really nice cars to drive, It's very hard for me to choose between them. Looking at the base prices I was quoted about 45k for FWD-tech and 50k for AWD-tech (canadian prices). I asked if I just went with FWD how much it would cost to get the 17 inch chrome rims and he said about 2,300 + whatever tires I choose to go with those rims. I felt the fwd was much lighter to drive vs the AWD.

I really liked the interior of the cars though, had my ipod touch plugged in via usb and it sounded unreal. 1 question though, the sales guy didn't know much about this, but does the Acura nav system have those 3d buildings pop up in the nav kinda like the infiniti g37 does?

cornelius

The 17" rims are too small for this car. I think that option would be a total waste of money. I also felt the FWD was lighter when I test drove both cars, but according to AWD owners, the AWD is faster.
The NAV doesnt have buildings popup and it also doesnt say out street names.

PsychDoc

Correction. The nav system in the 4G TL most definitely does announce street names. It's a setting under "map information" or "settings" (I can't remember which right now, but it's there and it works perfectly).

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Being a car enthusiast, I personally would recommend the AWD model for its more sporty nature.

I would forget about those chrome rims as I don't think they are worth $2300. That kind of money can get you some very nice aftermarket rims. Tires will probably be $1000 and if you get them from the dealer, I'm pretty sure they will jack up the price. The price for the tires and rims would probably be $3500+. Then the total price of your car will be $45k + $3.5k = $48.5k, not too far away from the AWD model. For $1500 more for the AWD model, you will obviously get the AWD system, standard 18" rims and tires (that are actually pretty good looking in my opinion), and other features that I have mentioned before.

To answer question 5, the TL doesn't have adaptive headlights. I think the G37 has it in its High technology package, but choosing that option means you will also need to buy the touring package. The total price for both of these packages is over $8000 CAD. That means you must pay at least $48k CAD in order to have adaptive headlights (since a base G37 is at $38k + $1800 PDI). And that's only Infiniti. Adding the adaptive headlights feature on other luxury cars in this class (same size, same power, same features, etc) would be even more expensive. You can choose the IS250 and add the X package (which has the adaptive headlights feature) for a total of about $40k CAD, but you will be missing out a lot of other features and engine power.

Inf123

Ya the only thing that bothers me is that I will probabbly be doing 80% of my driving in city. 11.6L/100km vs 12.3L/100km seems like a big difference to me, but what do you guys think?

The other thing is still with the financing vs leasing, there is some good financing deals here (1.9% for 36months) vs 3.9% for 36 months on leasing. Lets say I go with financing, after I fully pay off the car is it worth it to go buy a new car afterwards and then use this TL as a trade in? I would think the car value would have dropped about 12-15k or so after 3 years so the car could be worth 32k-33k?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Hmm, when you think about it, the difference between 11.6L/100km vs 12.3L/100km is around 5%. For me, I spent about $1400 CAD on gas last year, but I guess I do less driving than most people. So if we assume you spend $2000CAD/year on gas, an extra 5% is about an extra $100/year. I think that's acceptable. I mean, you will pay quite a bit more for gas anyways going from a CSX to a TL. The difference between the FWD TL and the AWD TL on the other hand is a lot less.

I'm not too sure about your other question. I bought my 02 TL-S in 2005 for $24k CAD. Brand new the car was $41k CAD. So it dropped $17k, that's about a 40% drop. If you do the same with the TL AWD, it's going to be around $30k after 3 years.

Inf123

Ya I guess if you put it that way 100/year isn't much more. I thought it would be a lot higher. I tend to drive about 36kms to and from work a day. So about 180km's a week (mon-fri) Then weekends would probabbly be a bit more I would say about 45-50km. So it looks like I would probabbly be filling up every 2 weeks. Premium fuel goes for about 10 cents more then regular so around 92-95 cents/L so looks like about 65 bucks per fill up compared to my CSX which is about 38-40 bucks. So looks like $1600/ year on gas, not to bad. Worst case I've heard gas prices going up to 1.10/L so about 1.20/L for premium which would put me at that $2000/year.

As for the 2nd question, all I ment was is it worth it to trade in a car after I full financed it in 3 years? or is it better to just lease for those 3 years if I plan to change cars.

winstrolvtec

The equity you have made in your car is sometimes a hard thing to come by, so if I were you I would cash out and lease, if it fits your lifestyle that is. I have been in that situation many times, let me give you an example of what I will do when the 6MT arrives. Trading in, cashing out $4k-$6k, using some of that to put down only tax and fees on a lease, getting a new car, and saving an estimate of $150 a month for 36 month term or break about even in monthly payment if I decide on 24 months but still cashing out, investing that money, so the money I make on investing will make it even cheaper. I then don't have to worry about blemishes, paint work, accidents, brakes and tires, etc, when it comes time to get a new one after that, becuase in the past I have lost money buying instead of leaseing, but you have to be ok with staying in it for the term and the miles ristriction. As a general rule, lease early to mid model year, and buy at the end of the model year, but there are some variations to this rule.

Inf123

How are resale values going to be on this car? compared to say Infiniti g37x and lexus is 250 awd? Do any of you think that they will drop the FWD TL's for 2010 and go with just AWD version? since the tsx will have the same v6 engine in 2010

KeithL

First if you look at the 3G TL the BAse TL held slightly better resale than the Type-S, I eexpect the FWD will likely hold a tad better resale than the AWD. The TL has traditionally held better resale then the Infiniti G. I don't know for sure on the IS, but Lexus resale usually is excellent. I don;t think the FWD TL will go away just yet. The gap between TSX and the TL AWD woudl be too large and it would leave a huge hole in the price poitns for people to go to the competition. I think if the V6 TSX does well then in a few years you might see the TSX fill the FWD TL spot and then the TL might go AWD only. But I think that will be in the next GEN becasue I think the TSX would have to grow a tad in size to replace the FWD TL.

Inf123

I thought for sure the awd would get a better resale, but i guess they will sell a lot more fwd then awd

winstrolvtec

^^ Projected better resale by percentage, not overall. Honestly, no one actually knows what the market for this car will be in 3 years. What I can tell you is that Honda inflates the FWD residuals or base models for lease purposes, mostly so the FWD is more affordable through lease and appears more financially attractive, it gets more production numbers and they want and expect to sell more than the SH. On the flip side, the residuals are lower on the SH becuase they want to make their money, profit margins are better on the FWD than the SH. Those are arbitrary #'s for the purpose of finance, but as fas as actual resale and trade in years down the line, I will go with the SH.

lpe387tt

Couldn't have said it better

Inf123

Another question, has anyone tried painting only the top part of the grille on the TL basically the part that extends to the hood of the car. So when its done it would kinda look like the TSX where the chrome part only is on the front of the car and not on the top of the hood part. If so is there any pictures of it? all ive seen is people paint the full grill or the sides and leave the grill, or both.

georgepetrick

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/4g-tl-painted-front-grill-718363/

YetiTL

@Inf123:

Keep your CSX, sell it and keep the cash, then lease. Your CSX is a form of "cash". If you give it then lease, you'll help your dealer but not you.

You see, most dealers have GAP insurance so basically, the car that you lease will be worth the same thing to them in 3 years with or without a cash-down. But for you, you'll have lost your CSX and its monetary value.

Inf123

Most of those have the full grille painted or just the beak painted. I'm talking about just the top part so it would look like a tsx grille

winstrolvtec

YetiTL said it well, sell first, trade in, but cash out second. Aside from that if you put all the money in it, lease or buy, and something happens to the car, there goes the value, there's goes your money. If it's totaled, good luck trying to get the insurance company to do more than pay off the balance, they are not going to cut you a fair check.

winstrolvtec

I was thinking the same thing, not sure if anyone has done it. That will probably be the MMC for the grill. I am going to try and avoid painting, but will look into some vinyl inserts, they can't look that bad.

Inf123

I tried doing mock ups using photoshop but my skills in PS suck, so it didn't look good. If you find any pics w/ vinyl inserts or whatever post em.

As for the leasing thing, the only thing I hate is trying to find a potential buyer, I'm planning to make my TL purchase pretty soon. So don't want to have the CSX just sitting there while I wait and see if I can find a buyer. Maybe I'll just finance and build up equity, that never hurts

winstrolvtec

^^See what you can get in a trade in, you don't have to put all or any of it down, they will cut you a check for the difference. If your cars see low mileage and you can keep it mint, then you will get a good return on finance. If you do put it all down, I know that in the US you only pay tax on the difference of the trade in.

Inf123

hmm I found a pic of what the TL would look like with a TSX style grille (paint just the top part)


I think someone just used photoshop to extend the top part, but I really like that look, any idea if there is away to get that?

winstrolvtec

That's what it should have been, best to just have it painted.

Inf123

I'm looking into 3 colors, still havn't made my decision either Grigio Metalic, Palladium Metallic, or White Diamond Pearl. I think the palladium Metallic won't need a paint match for the grille since it looks best stock. The other 2 would need it, does the white diamond color get dirty fast?

venom550pm

what is a csx? is that a civic with acura badging?

winstrolvtec

My 04 was WDP and I thought it actually helped it look clean most the time. As much as it is one of my favorites for this car, before you get it make sure the bumpers are well matched. The 09's seem to be ok, the previous years WDP suffered, and forget the factory body kit, it's a horrible match, that is if that sort of thing bothers you.

Inf123

Pretty much ya, CSX is only sold in canada, and really its just a civic with leather, nav system and acura badging. Since the civics here don't come with leather or nav

clh13

The civics do come in leather now. I had the EL (previous generation CSX) and it was more quiet than the civic. The CSX also has more HP than a civic.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Technically CSX = JDM Civic.

I have a 02 WDP TL-S and it will stay clean as long as it doesn't rain. When it does though...it gets dirty really fast. The black "water marks" are so annoying. When it doesn't rain, the car will look clean and shiny for weeks.

boomvader

Wow. I learn something everyday. I had no idea this existed!

Here is more info about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_CSX

Inf123

It's a nice car, but its time for me to upgrade

Ya WDP still looks the best to me out of those colors, but the silver one looks really nice when its sunny out, but when its cloudy it seems to loose its edge

Inf123

Anyone got a pic of an acura tl with a painted beak from a higher perspective then looking straight at it? I want to see how much chrome is shown on the hood, or if people paint that as well

venom550pm

People do both, i've seen pics of just the beak painted, just the outside of the beak painted and the whole thing painted. search new grill or painted grill on this sight and you will find what you are looking for.