TechnoCat

Wow! The FanBoy Attack!

Is it your opinion that this board has no place for facts or anything other than fawning opinion? Are you so insecure that you have to attack people for not seeing things as myopically as you do? Do you wear Depends under-garments for protection when you go out in public? Seriously, grow up! You will be exposed to dissenting opinions here; it's a discussion board, not (at least officially) a Kool-Aid board.

TechnoCat

I've had three Audis and 14 years of Audi ownership. Never had any electrical issues. Very reliably cars in my experience. Though I do acknowledge that not everyone has this experience, they're still not bad.

compewterbleu

I think you mean does your attack...

Look, I'm not seeing things myopically nor do I wear depends nor am I insecure, funny how you counter with an attack. Or are you above the law? Call it a Fanboy attack if you like. I just noticed that someone who doesn't own a product is always the main amperage of heated debates. If you don't own the car then your view is limited by the fact you don't drive it daily. Perhaps you need to view other replies this person wrote and how others on the board were "attacked" and how this person knows no quit with the assaults when once again he doesn't own the product. As far as facts go from this individual where are they written as gospel. Thanks Technocat.

TechnoCat

I have no idea what any of that meant, so I'll just raise a drink in honor of spirited debate and conversation.

The TL isn't a perfect car. It is a pretty good car, but it has too many flaws to be a great car. The thread topic - the ride - is fine by me though a bit jittery. But Acura left out too many finishing touches for my taste. Meanwhile, Audi left out too much power in the A4 series (and a rational price in the S4), and BMW left out having units in stock and salesmen without rectally-embedded heads. No, no perfect cars out there.

Trouble is, there are a few board members here that view pointing out the TL limitations as inappropriate for this board. They reply with nonsense like, "Why did you buy it?" or "Why don't you sell it?" Not very friendly.

Jim 2004

Just curious--how does the SHAWD ride compare to the M3 or the S4?

PetesTL

I test drove a M3 last year and a S4 several months ago. I would say the M3 has a slightly better ride than the SH-AWD on most road conditions. Bumps and ruts are better damped in the M3 with no rattles or creaks whatsoever. This is what I love so much about BMW's.....their ability to balance ride and handling is so perfect in pretty much all their models. The S4 on the other hand, rode about the same as the SH-AWD in my opinion....that is, firm and somewhat jittery on uneven roads.

RIneuron

My last Acura was a 1998 CL. This was a great car in its combination of handling, power, and comfortable ride. Especially for its day.

To give you an idea of my tastes, I hate full size SUVs in terms of ride and handling.

IMHO, the SH-AWD has fabulous handling. You feel positively glued to the road on turns. The seats are great. IF you want a sports sedan.

The ride is harsh but not jarring under most conditions. On good roads it's great. In the northeast with chewed up roads, the harshness is noticeable. This may be an inevitable trade-off with AWD and handling (although I have not owned a BMW 5). I also agree that this car is a great bargain for what you get (especially if you got through USAA car buying).

RIneuron

P.S. I think the power and responsiveness are awesome. I just think something and the car seems to do it. Fanboy mode off.

SSGHutch

I am completely satisfied with the ride of my TL AWD. After installing HR Sport springs and RJ 20'' wheels, I really expected the ride to be way to stiff. Instead, I am surprised to say the ride quality is still quite nice even with these mods. To this day I get compliments from passengers on how well my vehicle rides. The roads here are crap and I must admit I baby my car more than most when avoiding potholes and slowing for bumps ect... Could it be softer? yes. However, I think the ride is more than acceptable as I have been on 2 15hr+ trips since the mods and haven't had an issue. Just my two cents, hopefully I will avoid the mudslinging event lol.

ostrich

It's funny because before I test drove the TL SH-AWD, I read that its suspension was too harsh, blah blah blah.... then I drove the car, and I was wondering why people said that at all - in my opinion it was not harsh at all! Maybe I am just used to a "harsh" ride in my TSX! LOL! To me the base TL was a little too soft. Anyway, I think that it's just a matter of personal taste and opinion, and everyone will think differently about it.

graphicguy

I concur. Everybody has different tastes though.

IMHO, the ride/handling balance is just about right with the TL SH AWD. I have a 2 year old Accord (4 cyl) that certainly rides harsher. Then again, I like the ride/handling of Honda/Acura vehicles in general.

Probably the closest to the TL SH AWD in ride characteristics would be the BMW 3 Series without the run flat tires..

For comparisons sake, a Cadillac CTS with the F3 handling package is very harsh. Audi S4 is also harsh.

smarty666

Very good points graphic! Most things with cars are very subjective, as like we have been talking about with ride quality. Some, like myself, find the ride quality of the ES350 and LaCrosse to mushy, soft, floaty, and nauseating, while others find it absolutely perfect and exactly the comfort they look for while driving a car, whereas, others find the Acura ride qualities too firm/jarring, while others find them comfortable and a great blend of comfort and firmness!

Jim 2004

So, what is BMW doing that the other guys aren't?

jasonwdp10

Actually, the TSX is quite firm/jarring. Read any review and they'll say it's on the "sporty" side of vehicles. It's actually more jarring than my base tl and is one of the reasons i did not consider it.

you guys do know.. the avg car buyer doesn't want firm/sporty suspension right?

compewterbleu

Being BMW...the status symbol car it's bee since the days of yuppies.

smarty666

That is exactly what I felt, even back in 2008 when I got my TL, I originally was going to be in a TSX but while the firmer/more jarring ride of the TSX would be fun for a few hours, I could not take it over and over on a daily basis so that is another reason why I went the base TL route at that time. Felt the same way, even now with the 2010 TSX compared to the 2010 Base TL suspension.

The TSX is still just a little too firm for my taste but others love it so again, its a highly subjective thing!

smarty666

Why BMW definitely has a good ride/handling balanced, it is what they aren't doing that keeps me away still to this day, such as having such cramped, so-so interiors, in regards to styling, etc. Also, I don't care for all that orange dash and console lighting they still have on their models. I can understand having that on coupes, and sport specific models, but they really should have white/blue lighting on their sedans!

NwTSXmt

The Auto SH-AWD I test drove this past Saturday was not even close to being harsh

BLEXV6

Well, you cannot compare an M3 or S4 to a TL.

BLEXV6

The TSX is way harsher than the TL SH-AWD

docboy

I'm surprised. I'm guessing the suspension in the 2G TSX is stiffer than the 1G TSX.

I had a 2005 TSX (which I miss dearly). Coming from a lowered Integra to the TSX, the TSX felt a little floaty at first. Then going from the TSX to the 2010 TL 6MT, IMHO, the TSX is more forgiving of bumps/imperfections than the TL. Again IMHO.

PetesTL

I was comparing ride quality, not performance.......next time, read the post.

docboy

Well, Road & Track did compare the S4 to the TL 6MT (and 335i and G37S) The M3, yeah, another league IMHO

http://www.roadandtrack.com/index.ph...door-firepower

graphicguy

smarty....you and I are on the same page. I know I felt the ride of my 330i with the run flats was harsh, and I like a firm ride. The run flat sidewalls have to be stiff. It really made going over broken pavement quite jarring. Had to put "normal" tires on it to get the ride/handling I wanted. I know that BMW saved themselves a couple of hundred by going to run flats and not including a spare tire in their cars. But, they really screwed the pooch with that decision.

BMW doesn't hasn't put much money into the design of their interiors. They change some minor things around, but that's about it. You've seen on BMW interior, you've pretty much seen them all, with minor tweaks between the different models.

smarty666

Yeah, what is the deal with these run flat tires? Is that all BMW offers on all their models now or do you still have the option of getting regular tires? Because most of what I've read about them, people complain about how harsh and rough they have made the ride now so I don't see any advantage to going that route if they sacrifice ride quality that much?

compewterbleu

I concur. Being a person with lower back issues I have yet to exit my vehicle moaning or groaning. And that's after numerous 2.5 hr trips to the A-T-L. In fact the ingress/egress is nice. Crappy roads = crappy ride. And around the A-U-G we have a southern combination of railroad track, rail road ties, road kill, pot holes, tree branches, clumps of Georgia clay, and gravel to contend with. Call it "Deep South Road Mash."

jspagna1

I find that any car with AWD is going to have a stiffer ride, luxury or not! Also tires do have a LOT to do with the ride quality of any car as well.
My sister has a 2007 G35X and it has a very harsh ride. Meanwhile our 2003 Maxima SE has a much harsher ride since I replaced the tires with Toyo Proxies Summer tires.
It is all in personal preference. you want a nice cushy ride, go buy a Lexus or an Avalon. But then you would be complaining about the numbness and no road feel.

stagefoursurvivor

Yeah, I'm going to put 14" wheels/tires on our new SH-AWD to soften the ride, it shouldn't effect handling, right?

Fibonacci

Previous car was first gen TSX on A-Spec on OEM 17's. Compared to that, my 6MT on OEM 18's can occasionally feel stiff legged, but certainly wouldn't describe the ride as "harsh". Definitely firm and sporty.

I miss the "tossable" feel of the TSX. Similar level of grip, just more body roll and motion because of the added weight of a larger car. TSX had much better steering feel and weight - I hate the overboosted, artificial feel of EPS, that's my main beef. Otherwise, love the TL overall.

NJ SHAWD

+1
2 bad discs and repeated spinal cord injections. I don't find the ride bad even on 8 hr rides to Brampton.

TJ Zooker

speaking of harsh my 03 rsx is pretty bad. If you hit the right kind of bump you almost hit your head on the roof liner. Not to mention the incredibly stiff seats. Makes my TL feel like your riding on clouds. I find the ride pretty nice. A good balance of softness and rigidity, accept with the fugly 17" winters on, then its too sloppy.

George Knighton

I do not have any problem with how the car rides. I think it's about as perfect as it can get without resorting to expensive magneto-dampers.

I still think this car's great after 15,000 miles, and would still say that it's almost as if they consulted me personally about what I would want in a big sedan.

George Knighton

Lots of problems there compared to Honda's more recent McPherson designs.

In the DC5 and EP3 design, the front struts are straight up and down, with a very low hood and the tie rods connected to the strut.

This makes for very short strokes and harsh rides, and what most inexperienced drivers will believe is a kind of bump steer.

Beginning with 2006, the McPherson Honda designs are a lot better.

draph

I've been driving my 2010 TL SH-AWD 6MT w/out HPT for about two weeks on the same roads I have driven a leased 07 335i 6MT with Sport Package including 18 in run flat tires for the last three years.

IMHO, the TL's ride is softer - compares more with the BMW when I was running 17 inch non-run flat winter tires. The TL definitely feels like it has more suspension travel (I believe the BMW sport pkg dropped the ride height about an inch). I suspect those that complain about the flinty ride of the TL are driving it with the factory HPT option or aftermarket 20s. If you have no sidewalls, you're going to feel every piece of gravel... IMHO, the optimum ride/handling balance in the TL SHAWD 6MT would be the 18" wheels with summer tires. This is what I plan on doing when the MXMs wear out.

The TL feels less composed on long, high speed turns with undulations. SH-AWD makes up for fwd nose-heavy balance when accelerating; and doesn't seem to help nearly as much when cruising through a corner, which I expected.

I'm only missing one thing about the 335: top gear acceleration. That car made me lazy. I could zip around slow cars at highway speeds without ever needing to shift down (unless I wanted to be really dramatic with how fast I could overtake them). I don't miss the open rear differential on wet mornings when needing to pull out into fast traffic...

Kingmeow

That was not my experience when I had a TSX as a loaner a few months ago. It was an '09 and I felt it was more comfy than my '09 TL SH-AWD, ride wise.

Now my brother's M3, THAT'S harsh!

graphicguy

smarty.....no option for anything but run flats on BMWs. If you want anything else, you have to go aftermarket (which is what I did). I was lucky that my favorite tire store at least gave me some cash the almost new run flats as a swap. Still, it cost me close to a grand to do it. I was willing to do the swap since those run flats really ruined the ride of my BMW.

I understand that BMW probably saved themselves $150-$200/car by not having to include a spare tire. But I thought that was taking cost cutting too far for what's supposed to be a lux brand.

This was a couple of years ago, but I did get a letter stating that there were some BMW owners who were filing a class action law suit against BMW for reimbursement to swap out the run flats. Don't know what the outcome was, however.

smarty666

That is always something that has really pissed me off with BMW! They make you pay an arm and a leg for every freakin luxury feature, etc that should come either standard or much more cheaper, but because they are BMW they think that is enough to warrant jacking the price of everything up ridiculously, and I'm sorry its not. I can't believe, they don't even give you a spare tire anymore, how ridiculous is that?

JM2010 SH-AWD

Yes, but you can purchase the optional metallic paint and leather interior on your new Bimmer if you'd like.

smarty666

Yeap, nothing like paying extra for paint and actual leather on a already 40, 50, or 60k some odd dollar luxury automobile

cornelius

For me, my TL is WAY too soft. I always have to go super slow on small bumps and dips or else the front will crash into the ground. I always scratch the bottom when coming out of strip malls unless I drive extremely slow. How is the suspension in other large cars like Lexus GS, Mercedes Eclass, or BMW 7series?? M3 and s4 shouldnt be compared here. Those are tiny cars, and out of the tiny I cars I think Mitsubishi Evo has the best suspension.