RedE82

I've test driven both and will probably do it again. (Also test drove TSX Wagon and was totally underwhelmed, but that is neither here nor there).

It's pretty close between the two, for me. I like them both. In the totally subjective department, the S60 wins but some more rational and objective considerations seem to tip things in favor of the TL. The two are pretty close if you are mag racing.

Here is how I break them down:

TL SH-AWD with tech package
* Acura reliability - I plan to keep this car a while and, of all the people I know who have been driving the same car for years and years, I would say 4 out of every 5 are driving an Acura or Honda
* Handling - my totally subjective seat of the pants impression is the Acura has slightly better reflexes and sportier handling. I felt like the Acura invited me to hit turns/curves a little harder and was flatter going through.
* SH-AWD - this kind of goes in the handling department, but I gather that the SH-AWD system is more advanced than the Haldex Instant Traction system in the Volvo. The Acura has active torque transfer versus the Volvo relying on braking. I'm no automotive engineer, though, and could be totally confused.
* Price - I think a new TL can be had for a few grand less than a comparably equipped new S60. There are no CPO S60s of the current generation available, but there are plenty of TLs and even a handful of 2012 TLs. When CPO cars are thrown into the mix I can save a good deal more money.
* Options - it will be very easy to get a TL equipped exactly as I want due to the simplicity of Acura's option packaging.
* Paddle shifters - available on the TL, but not on the S60.
* Back seat might be a hair larger - we have a baby who will be in a car seat for some time.

S60 T6 AWD
* Volvo safety - what Acura has going for it in reliability, the Volvo has with respect to safety. The S60 is 5 stars across the board in the new NHTSA tests, where the Acura had some 2 and 3 star results.
* Handling - the S60 felt like a more comfortable cruiser to me. If you aren't driving on curvy roads at 10/10ths all the time, comfort has its place.
* Better looking - inside and out, I found the Volvo easier on the eyes. The interior was much more elegant than the Acura's button overload. The front seats are fantastic. The dash molester in me said the quality of the interior materials in the Volvo was better.
* Acceleration - whereas the TL felt like it handled a bit better, the S60 felt like it accelerated with more authority. I know the two cars are basically neck-and-neck when talking about 0-60 and 1/4 mile times, and I don't plan to drag race. But the delivery of power and torque felt a bit more instant and less frequently required a downshift in the Volvo. 325 lb-ft and I'm pretty sure it has a flatter torque curve.
* Fold down back seat - standard on the S60, nowhere to be found on the TL. Seriously, Acura?

No clear runaway victor. I'll probably decide in the next couple weeks. I'm on my third BMW and while the driving dynamics are fantastic, I'm ready to move on from the Germans primarily due to reliability. Lexus is a snooze fest and Infiniti just doesn't move me at all. So I think it is between these two.

Anyone else cross-shop the two? I'm curious to hear thoughts.

RedE82

I knew I was forgetting something and am missing how to edit my post, if there is a way.

Another advantage to the S60 - longer warranty and scheduled maintenance is covered. I won't have to pay for anything other than tires and gas on the Volvo for 5 years.

DannyZRC

Seems like you've got a good handle on these two.

The TL's handling advantage will be more and more dramatic as you push harder, the S60 just can't hang. And the TL's paddles are handy for sporty driving, though neither automatic is best of breed.

If you plan to keep the car for a long time, or if you plan to enjoy some canyon carving, the TL is a pretty clear winner.

If you just want horsepower for the highway and the occasional drag up an onramp, and you don't want to hold the car for too long, then buying/leasing an S60 probably won't kill you.

That folding backseat is nice too, it's relative value being whether this prospective sedan is the larger or smaller of the cars in your household.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I find volvo interiors to be like Ikea furniture; bland, doesn't conjure emotion but gets the job done. The warranty/free service on them is pretty awesome though!

Maze

The 2010 TL has 5-star rating across the board. I wonder what happened for the 2012 redesign to earn only 2-stars on frontal crashes?

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shop...l=TL&year=2010

DannyZRC

the test changed.

Maze

Nevermind, I answered my own question. They changed the test standards in 2011:

Explanation of 1990–2010 compared to 2011
Starting with 2011 models, NHTSA has introduced tougher tests and rigorous new 5-Star Safety Ratings that provide more information about safety feature performance and crash avoidance technologies. Because of the more stringent tests, 2011-newer model ratings are not comparable to 1990–2010 vehicles.

SlowLane

I test drove an S60 T5, and agree with all of your points. I like the looks of the S60, inside and out. The seats were really comfortable. The safety features were also impressive. What do they call those lasers in the rear view mirror housing that look for cars in front of you? City driving or something like that.

Handling was the issue for me with the S60. It felt too nose heavy in corners. On straight roads the acceleration and ride quality were great. I agree, very comfortable.

I would be very happy driving an S60, especially the T6 AWD, on a daily basis.

Motor Trend and Car and Driver both featured comparisons with the S60 in recent issues (T5 in one and T6 AWD in the other), but neither included a TL.

under9hell

The 2013 ES is coming which will be around the price range of TL and S60. If I'm in the market now I'll wait to test drive the ES

jspagna1

No comparison. Volvo not as reliable and parts and service are expensive. If you want the Volvo, you better lease. You want the TL, you can buy.

Rocketsfan

I can't stand the exterior looks (looks like a bug) or the interior (looks like a toy) of the S60, so I'd never cross-shop it. I think the Volvo has a better warranty, though.

weather

RedE82....You have a very good grip on both cars and you are right, it can be a tough decision. No car is perfect nor will it meet all individual needs. You have 2 great cars who are good at certain things and not as good on others (as you have already pointed out).

For me, I really like the exterior look of the Volvo but really dislike their interior (and I know this is subjective). Take the TL at night when you can see the dashboard lit up and I think you will fall in love...I know I am and that is a big thing for me as I spend alot of time INSIDE the car

Ultimately, the decision will not be easy and I doubt anyone here will say anything that will make the decision for you. Do a list of pros and cons again, and take a couple of road tests again. Its a big purchase, treat it very seriously (if you buy).

Best of luck and keep us posted

silverrevlis

The wife and I ended up renting a S60 T5 to drive from TN up to NJ. The headrest position (and non-adjustability) was very uncomfortable. Plus the position that the front seats needed to be in for backseat passengers to have any room was very bad. The exterior of the car was really attractive, but the interior felt kind of sterile.

cwelk87gn

What he said. When we were shopping I too seriously considered the Volvo. I guess the main reason we ended up buying the Acura was it retained more of it's value. We looked at the S60 R, and it is faster and dare I say more solidly built in some ways, as well as a bit more comfortable. In retrospect, I am happy with the Acura and would buy it again, and know I did the smart thing in choosing it. But every time I see a new S60 R I can't help but to think for once I bought a car with my brain instead of my heart.

RedE82

I think I have decided against the S60 for basically two reasons. First is the reliability issue - it may be perfectly reliable, but it doesn't have the record Acura has.

Second, and probably bigger, is the lack of CPO options. I've leased the last couple of cars but when I buy I like to go lightly used. There are far more lightly used TLs than there are S60s, and I can readily find one I like.

Now, the only thing that has become complicated, is whether I want to consider an MDX. My wife and I were talking about some things we want to do and possible road trips, and I started thinking how in the hell will we do this stuff with a sedan? I had been waffling on the crossover/SUV v. sedan issue earlier, and now I'm back considering it.

Six Shifter

There is probably a reason for this ...