Hawaii-MDX

If you want entertainment and information, you should keep reading your magazines. Shouldn't the editor's reviews be enough kool-aid to keep you entertained and provide you with enough information? Don't come here and start fires. Believe what you read in the articles and be happy! "ignorance is bliss!". No need to pester others and cause trouble.

HAWAII-TSX

I have a bimmerfest account. Don't go on much but I could run your experiment (Troll) their site if you want. Haha. Maybe ill friend bear on that site since we both have BMWs I bet he's a lot more pleasent on that site.

BEAR-AvHistory

Maybe if you can't pay your mortage you might think about a nice Honda Civic & bagging in Maid.

Seems pretty obivious not everbody can even afford an Acura.

Sould be fun for you at bimmerfest but there is no reason to do anything like it here but read through the I just bought X car threads. IIRC one of the mods had to call people out about jumping on very long time member, longer then most here, about his new Audi purchase. The evil green was really flowing.

BEAR-AvHistory

Looks like you have a volunteer. With the way he writes here it should be a lot of laughs. Maybe not what you had in mind but I am sure as a loyal fan he will represent Acurazine and the TL in the manner it deserves.

Hawaii-MDX

Excuse me???? I'm not sure what you are saying. My brother and I are 33yrs old and own a 2012 Acura MDX advance and a 2010 Acura ZDX advance and own a 1.25 million dollar home. by the time I'm your age my home will be paid off. I don't know how you got the idea that I/we can't afford our mortgage. I just purchased my MDX 7 days ago for 50k... how can I not afford it? You have no idea how much money I/we make or what we do for a living. Like I've mentioned before we are very fortunate and have been lucky in life to afford nice things and live in a beautiful state. We are steps from the ocean and wake up to the sound of crashing waves.

FYI my Acura costs more than your BMW 335i. I owned a 07 335i and I can tell you I love my new acura mdx more! If couldn't afford my acura I would just buy a BMW 3 series, though I do like the new civics, I maybe partial since that was the first car I got. My parents bought me a new 1996 Civic EX 2dr black on black for my hs graduation gift.

I'm dumbfounded by your comment! I don't comment on how much money you make or what you can afford... that's just plain rude...

Seems odd that I need to explain to a 70yr old when he's being rude. Dude grow up!

TROLL....

Costco

^TL;DR on every manufacturer-specific car forum out there

Hawaii-MDX

Touché! LOL

BEAR-AvHistory

Did your evil twin write this?

""For instance my home which is only 2k sqft on a 5k sqft lot was just appraised for 1.25mil. I myself cannot pay the 5k mortgage myself."""

So which is the truth, you can pay your mortgage or you cant pay your mortgage? I am pretty sure a mine is bigger then yours will not come out in your favor even comparing me at 30 with you at 33.

BTW My primary residence in the US has a few more square feet then your lot does.

Hawaii-MDX

I'm confused..... I choose to live with my twin brother and yes I can't afford it alone. I am simply stating that the cost of living in Hawaii is very high. I was replying to someone else not you. I was explaining the economic climate in Hawaii. The zipcode I live in is listed in the forbes 500 most expensive zip codes in the US. Lot sizes in Hawaii are much smaller than in the continental US. In Hawaii land comes at a premium. My 5k sqft lot alone costs more than the average home in the US. I'm happy you have a 5k sqft home as your primary residence... good for you, but I'm not accusing you of not being able to afford what you own. A 5k sqft home in my zip code would be 5 million. Please stop comparing you to me. I'm sure we are very different people and come from very different worlds.

I don't care what you had at 30. That was your 30. Today is my 33 the world is a much different place and I'm happy and satisfied with what I have at 33..... besides my best years are ahead of me. Hopefully I'll live a long fulfilling life and enjoy the world around me. Life is what you make of it and I choose to be happy. I am fortunate to have what I have. I feel sorry for others who have nothing better to do but compare themselves to someone who is less than half his age. Please stop trolling me and leave me alone. My brother already blocked you, please don't make me do the same. I appreciate the discussion.. just cut out the childish bashing and stop assuming you know me. If you do want to get to know me send me a pvt message and I'll be happy to discuss my success' and failures with you. This thread is not the place to do it.

BEAR-AvHistory

I have no problem with that but if you & the twin choose to be snarky I am not the type of person who will not push back. I don’t think of myself as being rude but growing up in the projects might have left a few rough edges. One of the twins started the personal comments & personal comparisons & I have no problem in stuffing the pair of you on it.

Just to put things into perspective on your MDX/335is cost comment you are about $6K short on MSRP, The MDX actually more in line with my Expedition then the BMW.

Hawaii-MDX

No not really I could have bought a 2011 bmw like yours for the price I paid for my MDX...... Your's is a 2011 not a 2012????

Hawaii-MDX

Also I've owned a bmw 335, I know which one cost me more..... My point was since I can afford my Mdx I could have easily afforded a BMW.... I looked at them, but didn't want the reliability problems and the coupe which is going to be redesigned next year. Grouping me with My brother is fine... i'm used to it (being a twin).... Again I invite you to message me so we can talk outside this thread.

g37guy01

I personally don't like discussing the people who buy the cars. It's always better off to stick to the cars themselves.

However should I want to discuss the purchasers, there is nothing wrong in buying for status. After all, who appointed you or me lord and master of the universe.

BEAR-AvHistory

As I said before this forum has a lot going for it in the entertainment area. Really love the twins thing. Must be linked minds or something. Both make the same spelling, punctuation, sentence structure, capitalization & word formation mistakes.

Word usage is the same for both twins including the wording in the attempted personal hits. Finally the use of hahahah & dude like a 16 year old playing with the computer instead of doing his homework.

winstrolvtec

As long as everyone is having a good time but I do think the main reason for the entertainment is a few that have the ability to amuse themselves. We may disagree when it comes to opinons and many of the subjective areas of topics but this quote from a BMW fanboy and another fan dedicated site (as an example) tops our entertainment any day:

"Dude, you need to drive a car that truly does handle well, with 65% of the weight on the front end the TL does not come close to handling like a true sport luxury sedan like a BMW 5 series, if you don't believe me get it up to 65 and SLAM on the breaks. The cars noses down and you loose traction with the rear wheels because of the dramatic weight shift."

This was focused around a TL SH vs a 5 series in handling and dynamics. You rarely if ever see stuff like this around here. There is a thread open regarding it and it came back at the right time if you ask me. Maybe it will suffice for my experiment, although I am pretty sure it's not needed as we all know what from what at the end of the day but here's the link anyway.

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/sh-awd-vs-5-series-debate-853734/

BEAR-AvHistory

Really?

Originally Posted by EazyRider562
I know what you mean, since I got my CPO 2009 TL w/Tech package I've gotten laid so much more. It's been night and day as far as how many chicks I've been scoring the last few months!
AMAZING is all I can say!

HAWAII-TSX

First off sorry but I thought you asked. "What does that say about me?"

let me phrase it this way.

I see the person who drives a infiniti as someone who buys it for the look and drive. Not for status.

I see the person who drives a rav4 as someone who wants a good reliable practical car and value.

I was just answering your question so I guess you appointing everyone who reads it as the lord and masters of your universe.

The last sentence also says your a little sassy. In my universe anyway.

Aloha and have a good day all. I won't be checking the site today cause I'm going to the beach and have a few drinks at sunset.

winstrolvtec

That doesn't mean the quote is not necessarily true, where to the contrary, the other info is clearly incorrect. One has little to do with the car itself or other cars in comparison, where the other is just a lack of knowledge and/or ignorance because it appears the poster does not want to know anything otherwise and is not open to even investigating and/or receiving any facts or info suggesting otherwise. Blind enthusiasm in other words.

There is a difference in simply being a proud fan of your car, as opposed to, disregarding solid, factual, objective information, or not seeking any out, because it does not serve one's self in the typical "mine (or said brand) is the best", or something to that effect, mentality.

That is why we have such thorough and detailed discussions here because we bring "facts" into the discussion which tend to contradict subjective beliefs or "feelings", where many other sites simply write these conversations off as "it's no contest" or any other invented or imaginary way of not having to consider anything else that might bring them or their car down to a more modest level in life, and so there is nothing more to talk about.

That's not to speak for everyone at those sites nor is your example to speak for everyone here but there is a difference. Feel free to keep trying though, I'm sure you can find better than that.

BEAR-AvHistory

It goes to style just like the twins posts & the constant sniping at the guys with new non-Acura cars. It come across as very mean-spirited as opposed to technically illiterate. Give me a break the guy could not even spell “Brake” & is most likely just 13 years old.

Guess no one here, including yourself, ever made a dumb, factually incorrect statement about auto technology?

Stop taking yourself so seriously, you car is getting old & you maybe the next target.

DannyZRC

Have a 2003 Pontiac Vibe GT and a 2000 Isuzu Trooper, I had a 2005 R1200GS until I sold it and bought the trooper. Analyze me you monkeys! :p

Bear, I consider myself reasonably technically literate and I think the TL is a pretty cool car, why all the hate? Cause it's ugly? (I know you said you didn't buy one partly because it's too big, but size doesn't really make a car good/bad in a universal sense).

Maybe you've said it somewhere in the past, not that I've seen/remember though.

BEAR-AvHistory

Its a just car why would I hate it? I have said more then once here it’s a nice car but the design sucks. I think the body of opinion in Honda management agrees with me on that fact & if its survives into the next generation it will be quite a bit different car.

Personally, I don't think its such a great object of automotive art that when former Acura owner posts here very happy about getting a new car or having second thoughts on having bought a TL its necessary for the fans to go into a feeding frenzy. Talking about hating I wonder why that always happens.

Don’t see why when cars I am familiar with are discussed why I can’t join in......or is a difference of opinion not welcome in this open board?

cp3117

Well said "Bear",

Over the years there use to be some great/knowledgable posters here like ie: Technocat. He was very knowledgable with Quattro's and knew alot about the SH-AWD systems. He was basically a hero here when he left Audi for Acura but as time went on he went back to Audi, and then he was all of a sudden someone who didnt know anything. He submitted very good posts positive and negative towards each vehicle and was very valuable to anyone that was shopping the two. Eventually though after all of the hounding by a few people here whenever he posted something negative about Acura, he had a enough and we never see him anymore.

I belong to many different forums and started coming here many years ago because i wanted to hear the positives/negatives of the TSX and then came here to the TL forum as I wanted to purchase a 4G 6MT back in 2010. I use to get into looooong debates with a certain member here but got tired of the spin games. One of the final straws was a debate over the performance of two vehicles where I showed facts from credible sources using calibrated timing equiptment. That should have ended the debate but instead he simple said he didnt believe the facts and he would sooner use an iphone with a $15 performance app thrown in his console himself to prove his point and somehow that was more accurate and credible

Eventually you get tired of that attitude and i took the advice of a few people here that emailed me last year. Now he's been on my ignore list (great feature here btw) for some time, temporarily. The only problem is in threads like this, all I see for most of it is....

"This message is hidden because winstrolvtec is on your ignore list."

But i can only imagine whats going on.

Every forum has this kind of stuff to some degree, but i do agree it seems to be a common theme here.

DannyZRC

Bear, your posts are generally to crap on the TL or to crap on people that would dare to say it's better than some other car.

For instance, I've driven a couple examples of the E60 and an E90, and they were turds. The TL is much better. I think the BMWs have terrible numb steering and terrible numb handling. Usually, this would elicit you talking about sales figures, or RWD, or how the TL is a terrible ugly flop and how the honda executives should be shoving swords in their guts (which is kinda racist but yellow racism gets a pass in 'murica).

Granted, I don't expect such a response in this instance due to the meta-analytical nature of my post.

My earlier post was to ask you why you think it's so terrible, not asking you to justify your right to make comments in a quasi-public forum. Though you clearly don't lend others the same latitude you give yourself when making belittling comments about folks' cars, even though this forum happens to be dedicated to that car.

winstrolvtec

As far as the twins go and similar findings, you are the common denominator in that so it doesn't count as far as I am concerned. You have to account for that non owner member who readily admits he/she is only here for their amusement and whatever that is meant to imply.

As for other examples, you're right they do exist and there are plenty of them but they seem more along the lines of jealousy or envy as opposed just pure blind faith or disregard of fact or other products, and not one simply making a mistake.

My issue is that you should not act as though it is so much better elsewhere and this is a religious cult based forum or that you have no role in instigating any of that. Some of that exists everywhere and I have no issue with it being labeled no better but worse or along those lines is far from accurate, and that's a pure example of your role and involvement in all of that, mine would be choosing to respond in the first place when it’s probably better not to.

The SH vs 5 example was merely an honest inquiry as to what 5 owners thought about the handling comparison. I am sure there was a lot of quality responses as well but there was that one and probably a few others like it. If you think the sampling is too small I would gladly admit I was wrong if you initiate that experiment we talked about and it just so happens to prove me wrong.

To a more similar concept, we have had a recent TL vs G and also an Avalon vs TL thread and I didn't see anything like that. Of the threads that do happen to go askew, let's just say there are a few common denominators in most of them.

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/going-new-sh-awd-tl-g37x-853359/

https://acurazine.com/forums/4g-tl-2009-2014-123/tl-sh-awd-avalon-dont-hit-me-853326/

Anything is possible with regards to your last sentence but my thoughts and knowledge surrounding the TL would still be consistent with what they are now even if I was to go elsewhere.

It’s not likely I would come back just to say what a piece of crap it was or what was I thinking, etc, etc and more to your point, I’m sure there are a few who would make the jealous comment but it comes with the territory everywhere, not only reserved for here and I do think that is also a source of a lot of the TL’s criticism here and it doesn’t only have to apply to the vehicle (or object) itself.

g37guy01

Some of this is all in good fun. I really try not to be snarky online. However There is a small element of truth in what I'm saying. Discussing the motives of purchasers rarely ends well. I usually don't care to discuss the mindset of car buyers.

Have one for me.

winstrolvtec

I will say it over and over if I have to because it is the bottom-line in all of this. Remember who it is that attempting to label who while at the same time participating at a fan dedicated forum while having already established that you do not care for the particular vehicle.

Techno's was never a hero, his first predominant post was nothing more than to rip on the TL and for him to justify taking a financial hit and getting a new S4 that he was waiting on anyway. The TL 6MT was available to him sooner or something to that effect and he his lease was up and didn’t want to get an 4 cyl A4 in the meantime because they dropped the 3.2L. He used phrases like “on another planet”, “not in the same league”, “shouldn’t be compared”, etc, etc and spoke about it with such conviction that there was no getting through when someone “believes” things so strongly but the reality is the rest of world accepts something different.

It's just like the rest, trying to swallow and justify their decision against the TL or Acura at some point. Let me convince myself that I hate the vehicle and the people who own them so I don't have to second guess myself everyday of my life.

His knowledge was not even that great as it was always somehow twisted against the SH or in favor of Quattro. When we had in depth discussion he would revert back to icy or slippery functions of other systems, namely Quattro, and it was in some weird twisted context the same function as SH when we were talking about it in a dry handling context which regular Quattro can not do the same things "in the way" SH does it. He was trying to write off passive transfer as torque vectoring or active transfers just like the media typically does, brainwashed in other words.

You would think it was good info if you were interested in the two cars but the context was not an indifferent or an impartial one, not some good and some bad with both, totally Audi biased. I would have expected you to notice that, unless you are in the same boat, that it.

You see, I think in his mind he simply could not give the credit where it was due. He wanted a new S4 and nothing was going to get in the way of that or make him reconsider and I think his wife or significant other didn't like the fact it was an Acura when they had previously been driving “glorious” Audi's.

As far as you are concerned, your lack of knowledge makes you unable to accept what others are in essence trying to teach you, not to be offensive. Somehow, at the end of the day, you think a car that routinely traps 5 mph less than the other is magically an overall faster vehicle. And I highly doubt you were shopping a 6MT TL, but in any event, what did you get instead? What are you driving now?

I don't have you or anybody else on ignore so I don't see why it would be the other way around. As far as any discussion we may have had, I would be more than happy to revisit anyone of them, my door is always open, I have nothing to hide, nor am I hiding behind any single post or posts. You can quote or address me directly, I'm not a bad guy, we can debate or discuss anything you like, no hard feelings or anything personal, it's up to you.

Edward'TLS

Hawaii and Vancouver are two different worlds indeed.

Here in Vancouver, the locals are making little money compared to the average Americans. Only the handful of corporation CEO's are able to break into the six figure salaries. Cleaning ladies and restaurant servers are just earning minimum pays.

In fact, Vancouver belongs to the province, BC, which has the highest unemployment rate in Canada. However, it also has the highest housing price index and the highest cost of living, in Canada. Strange, isn't it.

This is the result of the huge influx of super-wealthy Asian immigrants and Asian visitors who snatch up every available housing properties. They don't mortgage nor pay by bank cheques. They buy million-dollar houses with suitcases of cash money.

Vancouver is the only city in Canada with the housing market not affected by the world economy meltdown at all. Throughout the past two years when property values were falling all across Canada, Vancouver was the only one city which embraced continuous rising property prices.

As a result, this highly lopsized wealth distribution creates the effect that the riches get even richer, and the poors get even poorer.

That's why there are so many "unfortunate" Vancouver locals who buy BMW's and MB's, which are the well recognized status symbols, in order to gain the same respect as, and be treated and admired like, the super-wealthy group of settled foreigners.

This is not the mindset of the one or two biased Acurazine members, which is deemed insignificant; but is the mindset of the many Vancouver populations who buy BMW's and MB's just to boost their perceived class status.

BEAR-AvHistory

Never said it did not sell well because it was a terrible car it just doesn't sell well because its unattractive to at least 50% of the people who used to buy them. That being said I am sure lots of people don’t like BMW’s for whatever reason but that’s life. Used to be the time when the Chevy - Ford wars were the center fan combat in the US. I had both.

Its interesting to watch guys whine that I am picking on the TL compared to the German cars or the Lexus, Infinity entries. (Remember the 4G was introduced as Honda cracking Tier 1)

But do I see the same people have no problem dumping on the Korean Kia & Hyundai group which has passed Honda by & is now the third largest producer in the world. Its also interesting to see them selling full sized V8’s sedans in the US while Honda is going to reintroduce the 3.7 again in the new RLX flagship.

winstrolvtec

Just curious, it has nothing to with anything, more for myself but what is your take on the MMC? Do you think 50% still applies to it?

I guess in some way that is fair but at the same time, we don't see you running to defend anything Honda/Acura either. That's the problem, it has to work both ways, if you want to keep members here "in check" not to dump on said brands, don't you have to do that with Honda/Acura when it is also warranted?

The thing is you spend most of your time here, I don't see you policing all criticism fairly across the internet for all cars and brands. It seems to only apply to putting Honda/Acura/TL down and/or keeping them at the same level in which you view them yourself. You don't see anything wrong with that?

And before you say that it happens here with regards to the other cars and brands instead, know that at least it happens in the right place and among those who have a vehicle and other things in common, it's not like we go to Hyundai, Kia, or BMW (and all other) forums to do so. There's a difference.

g37guy01

BMW and mb are indeed lucky companies, to have people who buy their products for the sole purpose of increasing their strata within the human race. I would also like to develop said product, whose sole function is to elevate ones status.

DannyZRC

You own one, A Vacheron no?

(or are you being obtuse on accident?)

Hawaii-MDX

wow that is interesting. I can understand, I've been to Vancouver twice and many of my customers are from Vancouver. It is a beautiful place with well cared for homes and public areas. I think they figure hey I can't afford their million dollar home, but I can afford to drive a nice car!

I can admit some of my motivation to purchasing my Acura was for status. I was driving a 2010 Nissan Frontier Crew Cab. Though it was nice it didn't say much in the way of wealth or status. Also I didn't feel too good when my truck was the cheapest automobile on the street.

Hawaii-MDX

BMW and MB created the perception of status. Marketing at it's best! I mean think about how they market their cars. Most of them are leased not purchased. If a person leases a car so they can drive something they couldn't afford to purchase says something about how they want to be perceived. Similar to renting a nice home or buying an apartment. I at times have said to myself damn that's a nice Bimmer how can he afford that....... hrmm prolly leased.

Hawaii-MDX

Sorry... We sound alike and talk alike, we are very similar. I can send you a photo if you do not believe we are twins. I'm sorry about my poor punctuations, improper spelling and grammar. We were born and raised in Hawaii and speak a lot of pidgin, I suppose it also comes out when we type. Here's a like to Hawaiian pidgin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Pidgin. Please forgive my poor english and I apologize to anyone I may have offended because of it.
Chill out braddah! take it easy k!

Alohaz

Hawaii-MDX

With the exception of my personal experiences with my BMWs I have never characterized them as bad. I just pointed out the flaws I've experienced. I loved my BMW and have said that BMW makes great driving cars. Where do you get that I don't like BMWs..... It's you that rubs me the wrong way and much of my snipping was directed at you, not BMW.

Edward'TLS

Not just BMW and MB, there are many more lucky companies such as Rolex, Nokia Vertu, Tiffany & Co, LV, Chanel, Christian Louboutin, etc, etc, etc, that are being widely bought and worn by some general populations in order to boost their status.

The only prerequisite to become these lucky companies is a well recognized brand name that sell nothing but premium and expensive products exclusively to the wealthy crowds.

BEAR-AvHistory

OK no problem.

Personally I thought the MMC was very good & improved the car visually. I really liked the 3rd party front by RonJon & would have liked to have seen them move more to a simplified version of his design.

While the MMC was a nice improvement I believe the damage to the cars image had already been done from reviews etc. of the original. A lot here were waiting on the 6MT to come out but not enough of the Acura customer base is interested in it to give the TL a boost in sales. Year to year the sales have been pretty flat around 35K units give or take a few thousand.

Most likely things would have been different in the cars favor if the MMC + 6MT had been the product release car.

My view on Honda in general is not as bad as you may think. I believe the current management, marketing & design teams are brain dead. Like it or not the car design business is evolutionary not revolutionary. Product planers that ignore history are doomed to failure. The “Suddenly Its 1960” program at Chrysler where they introduced their 1960 product line in 1957 was deadly for them & the start of its slide into bankruptcy. The leap in visual design was just too much for the consumer despite the fact that the under skin car was very competitive with both Ford & GM. The current Civic release is deja vu all over again.

Honda in the immediate family. Recommended a 4door V6 EX Accord to my son in law. Despite having owned Ford SUV’s for the past 10 or 12 years 2 Explorers & the current extended length Expedition I recommended top of the line 4X4 Pilots to two of my daughters which they both bought. My SUV requirements set need a large open box & the Ford fills the bill. All the family has two large dogs in their households & the Pilot fit the bill for moving the dogs around as well as other general SUV type driving without being of Battle Star sizr like the Ford.

As for where I spend by web surfing time you are wrong about the distribution. Being retired when stuck in the house for any reason I just have more time available then someone with a day job. Been more active then usual because I am having a lot of work done out back & need to be here to sign stuff & answer questions. As for not being fair on other sites this is not unusual for me #8 #30 #32 #41 #46 #57 - (you will like that one) #62 #69 #77 = (bang for the buck) #89 #100 #105

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659403

If I was still serious about track days & running most weekends I would buy the Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca & leave it at the track way before even thinking about an M3. The new turbo M3 coupe when released it will be on my list as a DD but still would go with the Mustang as a track day car..

BTW I don’t think I am policing anything just expressing my opinion about something that interests me.

g37guy01

I thought gucci, armani, ferrari, to name a few created this perception. I mean is a chanel bag worth $4,000?

Leasing is another tool, just like renting an apartment. If you can't afford to buy a $1.5million apartment in manhattan you can rent it for $5,000/mo. However, a lot of people lease, due to a tax advantage. But as I said, we should stick to the cars and the mindset of car buyers.

Leasing also has it's advantages over buying, nothing wrong with leasing.

g37guy01

No, I actually own one.

BEAR-AvHistory

Geeze for all the snobbery & elitism BMW owners are said to possess I did not even know what a "Vacheron" was. Had to do a search. Nice watch.

On the lease purchase thing BMWUSA #'s indicate a 50/50 split. In Europe because of tax reasons leased cars are part of your executive compensation package. When I lived in England I had two leased Jags a 4.0 Sovereign & a V-12 XJS convertible paid for by the company. Our leasing policy went down to section supervisors who has a choice of BMW 318’s or similar cars