ReWritable

Agree. If somebody gets killed doing 130MPH, it's just Darwin's theory at its finest, good they don't get to procreate. However when they kill innocent people in theprocess that really outrages me. That shows you that no matter how careful you drive, you always share the roads with retards.

Cecilt

But price is not the only thing to compare. For the size, features, and performance the TL should be compared to the 5, M and A6. We can't complain the TL is cheaper than all these but it offers more of an equivalent car in the other features I mentioned to put it in this league. I wouldn't compare the TL to a 2 door sports car that was priced in the $35-$40k range. Price means nothing in that comparison at all. The whole package should be cosidered.

LIPPSTUH

iTrader: (2)

the tranny issues were those of the AUTO, they did throw in a m/t for the 03 cl-s which is the only reliable transmission for the j32a2

LaCostaRacer

I read the article, but missed seeing any table with the actual lap times. I sincerely hope the TL had noticeably quicker lap times than the competition. But the times could be just .001 second quicker and meet the published statement of being quicker. I would think if the data was truly significant it would have been provided.

The other issue with this test is that it's testing today's available cars against next years TL. That's a great manufacturers test for benchmarking purposes but may not be reality next year when this TL becomes available. I would think the g37 might give the TL a run for the money when compared. I doubt that BMW and Infinity will stand still for a year.

Believe me, I want the TL to shine since I own one, but this article is missing the track performance data and serves almost like an advertisement. The only real data I saw was how the shift throw was measured as well as the performance specs.

SGPL

Read here: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...hotopanel..1.*
They say 2 seconds in short (!) racetrack faster.

LaCostaRacer

^ Thanks for the heads up. I wish these reviewers would have a table of laptimes because it would be nice to see how each car faired. Here's the quote of interest from Edmunds:

"The 2010 Acura TL SH-AWD 6MT kicked serious butt. And we're not talking tenths of a second on a 1.6-mile racetrack, but instead 2 seconds (a light-year on a short racetrack like this) separated the TL from the next quickest sedan, the Audi S4 Quattro, on the challenging Dynamics Handling Course. This Alan Wilson-designed, 13-corner course is a laboratory instrument, and it dissected the strengths and weaknesses of these five cars with an array of fast/slow, compressed/unweighted, opening/closing corners"

Edward'TLS

I agree with you. Sizewise, the TL should be in the same size class as 5, M, and A6. Unfortunately, that's not how the auto world groups and compares these luxury or near-luxury cars together. All reputable auto review agencies and magazine publishers pitch the TL with the 3, G, and A4.

It makes more sense if you think like this. It's like when you have $40K in your pocket, what car can you buy ? In this case, the TL fits in very well with the 3, G and A4. When you only have $40K in your pocket to buy cars, it is obviously a waste of time even thinking about the 5, M, and A6 which are all at least $10K above your capability.

Edward'TLS

Remember that this new 6-spd manual tranny is not the same old design. It is all beefed up to handle the increased hp and torque for the 3.7L-V6. When new parts are used, all old reliability records are thrown out the doors. Honda is being careful to be safe rather than sorry afterwards.

crxb

BMW has a new comparable tech awd in their new X6 - it should eventually replace the current system in the 335ix

6SpdTerror

Didnt want to jack this thread but i started a new one with the edmunds insideline review. The TL was 2 seconds faster than both BMW 335i and xi models and the s4 and the G35 wasnt even in the question. This thing is the real deal and i cant wait till they come out with it! Imagine the type s version!!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I just want to know how this new model compares with the 3G TL-S 6MT on a track..since the old car was also able to beat the competition by 2 seconds on a 1:30 - 1:40 track.

static808

What's funny is that its a year away and I am sure the Honda/Acura engineers will continue tweaking the car before it hits production.

I am impressed by:

1. A car as big as the TL with a V6 and AWD can get close to 5.6sec (0-60)
2. Smoooooth manual trans + SH-AWD = just what we all hoped for
3. Acura finally looking at performance by using SH-AWD as the main ingredient.

If the TL can hold its own against smaller G35/37, S4 and 335i's...what about the 5 series, A6, etc...

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

The new 2009 TL is like an F-14 Tomcat. It's big, but agile.

But to be honest guys...

1) who REALLY cares if the car goes 130 miles per hour. I know I'll never get my car up that high.
2) the only people that care about how fast the car goes 0-60 mph is the guy that's stealing your car
3) no matter how agile it is, no matter how much the new 2009 TL beats other cars on the track...THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IT'S STILL AN UGLY CAR.

6SpdTerror

I dont think it's ugly and ill be more than willing to get one but im waiting to see what they will do for the type-s. I could just imagine what that will be like if the "base" sh-awd model is wiping the floor with competitors.

08TYPE_S

It is pretty amazing that this TL can take those competitors, but those competitors will be updated once the TL SH-AWD 6MT comes to market. Based on the article, this TL can really perform except it is wrapped up in such an objectionable exterior.

Cecilt

Dude, every post you make has a reference to how ugly the TL is. I bet you are the type of person who will sit on the sidelines, wait to see if the TL sells, looks to see if others in your area are driving one then go out and buy one. Most naysers at the beginning of something new eventually change their mind as others begin to see something in a more postive light. Just let us know when you get it. I won't give you a "I told you so either"

SilverJ

you are like 1 out of 1000 people that will drive their TL on a daily basis 115-142 MPH. 160 on a street? Try not to kill yourself or anyone else.

SilverJ

I would say hes in the majority of people who think the 4gTL is ugly.
Sorry that grill and backend isnt growing on anyone soon....no matter how fast the car is..I think from the side it looks decent, but no better than a Maxima.

Colin

I don't think that was the point of the post. In every message he posts in he mentions how ugly the car is. Personally I think it's excessive and unnecessary. One notable exception was PeteTLs "delivery" thread (I thought that showed some class vs. others bashing the looks in someones "I got mine" thread ).

As for the majority, I think that it is growing on many people as I can see a 'softening' of some peoples positions as they see it in person.

biggygo

Well, let me just say that the only problem with your post is saying that the car being ugly is a FACT - when, in actuality, it is just an opinion.

Also, I would like to point out that the Type S is NO MORE! The higher performance vehicles will carry the SH-AWD designation. Think of it like this - SH-AWD = Type S+AWD...I hope that's the last time I have to say this...

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

Colin- can you confirm that there will be no Type-S?

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Cecil,

I'm sorry to have upset you. That was not my intention. But please do not make assumptions on the type of person I am. It's obvious (as Colin points out) that I am not a fan of the exterior looks of the new TL. Really, that is the bottom line I was trying to get across.

But, unlike you infered, I will not be purchasing a 2009 TL. I do hope that it looks better in person-I think the interior will be VERY interesting to see, but I am very happy with my 2007 Type S.

Plus, if you'll notice, I started off my thread with a complimentary comparison to the F-14.

SilverJ understood what I was talking about. And Biggy was correct-I was only stating my opinion, which everyone is entitled to. That is the essence of these postings.

So, once again guys, my apologies.

Colin

Not really. However, if they follow true to form, they will offer it in year three of the five year cycle. If you recall, they had a 6-mt on the base G3 TL before the Type-S debuted. I think that this 2010 car will be the same: ie. non-Type-S but with MT

6SpdTerror

They will come out with a higher hp type-s version but it usually follow a 2 or 3 years after the initial debut.

cbptls

Perhaps Acura is following the Lexus lead.

The LS460 has 380 horsepower and is limited to 130 mph.
The LS600 has 438 horsepower and is also limited to 130 mph.

I'm sure both these cars can go a lot quicker than this, but is there a need to, especially here?

WiLLs TypE S

If the Acura TL SH-AWD outshines the BMW 335xi, then it got something to brag about. But then again, you have to wait till the end of 09 for a 2010 model to get this vehicle. By then, many new cars are going to come out in 09-10. I think Acura should sell the SH model 6-speed asap..to save the face of Acura. The looks is definitely not improving, so they lean toward the handling. And to be honest with alot of people. For 40k, I wouldn't care if the Acura SH-AWD outperforms the bmw, I would still take a 335xi over it. Nothing beats the sound of Bi-Turbo 3.0litre. That's just my cup of tea. Acura use to be an affordable luxury car, now its leaning toward a death trap, where it's about the same price as most high-end luxury cars.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

~$40k = high-end luxury cars? ~$40k can barely get you a 335i/C350 etc and those aren't exactly high-end luxury cars.....I believe these are just entry-luxury sedans or compact luxury sports sedans....IMO high-end luxury cars = LS460, S class, 7-series.

And yes, most people don't care about track performance, $40k or not. Most people care about the name, BMW. That's why it's still one of the best selling in its class.

Legend2TL

The best quote to this is
“ Any damned fool can criticize, but it takes a genius to design it in the first place. ”

Colin

Bell's a Navy man, he probably doesn't like those planes either....

PetesTL

For $40K, the only 3 series that you can get is a 328i...and the TL will smoke that car. Before I got my 4G TL, I was very close to buying a 335xi....but in order to get the same equipment level as a TL Tech ($39K), you'll have to spend over $50K! (The window sticker for a loaded '08 335xi I saw at my local BMW dealer's lot was $52,550!) If you want 335i performance for less than $40K, you'll have to get a 135i (with almost NO options).

Johns

Well I was on my way home from work and planned to stop at the local Sam's club. I got off the highway and remembered, the new TL is out. I was 1 block from the local Acura dealer. I stopped by to see it in person. It is not the most cohesive design. The front doesn't flow well, and the rear doesn't go with the front. That being said. I didn't think it was an ugly car and I could see it growing on me. I would never love the "blade" front grill, but the car did have a modern, muscular, also luxurious look to it. The interior also looked good. If you hate the look of it, I can understand, but it looked better in person than the pictures to me.

Cecilt

I took my wife by the Acura dealer today to show her the TL. She has a level head and does not care about performance, features etc but can spot good looking from bad. Before we even stopped the car we saw a WDP and she said "Is that the new TL, it is HIDEOUS". We stopped and looked at a black and gray one. She said the whole car was a disaster (front, rear and sides). She said my current 3G blew this one away and that I would be a fool to consider getting rid of it for a 4G no matter how much I wanted to have SH-AWD.

Drove down to Honda and she thought the v-6 Acord looked better than the TL. Drove down to Nissan to show her the new Maxima. She didn't like the chrome door handles but said of the 3 cars the Maxima was much better looking than the TL. BTW, I did not tell her anything about the TL and what people were saying about it before we pulled into the dealership. I let her form an unbiased opinion and it matched what most people here are saying. I do think Acura made a blunder.

pokin

A bit of a low blow? Come on - he simply stated his opinion. I am sure that we can express strong emotions without getting personal.

WiLLs TypE S

So your saying a Lexus, BMW, Benz are not high-end luxury cars? Acura has not step up into that field at all. Or at least they are trying too but jacking up the tag of the car. I'm sorry a TL is nothing more than a mixture of a G35 and a ES350.

WiLLs TypE S

I'm not trying to bad mouth Acura TL, but the only reason why I owned a Acura TL was because it was best bang for the buck in regards of options. That is why I'm a loyal Honda fan..for commuter cars. I give it props if they say it can outperform a BMW 335xi, since it's been awhile since I've seen a Acura TL outperform a BMW. Giving props to the new 4g TL. But once again not my cup of tea.

Oh and thank your for agreeing with me..people don't really care about performance. The only reason why TL did so well is b/c the 2G brought it alive. Now with the 4G..I think it will go downhill.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Colin,

I'm surprised....

You know, I went out of my way to write an official and formal apology when you and Cecilt pointed out my obsessiveness to the exterior looks of the TL...please see my Post #62. Then Legend2TL takes a swipe at me too. But in your Post #69, you STILL don't let up on me.

But I didn't see you bashing Cecilt when he posted comment about how much his wife doesn't like the 4G TL in Post #72. And he was the one who called me on being so negative! So my question to you is....why are you taking this so personally? And why are you bashing me over and over? Wasn't this originally about the car?

So now who's being obsessive?





PS: And, by the way, the P-51 Mustang is THE most agile fighter of it's time. The F-86 Sabre was underpowered but strong during the Korean War. And the F-100 Super-Sabre was a step up to the F-86. No, I never flew in those planes, but I sure wish I could have.

Colin

Oh no, you took that wrong. I was saying that as a Navy man, you probably wanted a F4U, F6F, A4 or F-14 and not those other planes that were flown by 'regular pilots' in the Air Force. It was intended as a compliment from an aviation enthusiast.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Well, if you're an aviation enthusiast, you'll know that pilots say that anyone can land on 3,000 feet of stationary runway. But when you are landing on 350 feet of runway that is rolling up and down in the ocean....it kind of separates the Navy from the Air Force boys. That's why Navy men say, "if you ain't Navy, you ain't shit."

By the way, you seemed to not address the rest of my most recent post????

Colin

I did not address the rest because I did not intend to take a swipe at you so once I explained that, I considered the issue closed.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

IMO, not all Lexus, BMW, Benz are high-end luxury cars. I mean I can go out and buy myself a 1994 318i, does that mean I have a "high-end luxury car"? Well may be to some, yea, but to me, I don't think so. I guess everyone has different standards.

This TL is not the "tier-1" car. The TSX isn't either. So in a sense, you are right, they are not "there" to compete with the big boys yet.

In terms of price, really, I find it reasonable. Obviously it would "seem" to be overpriced if you compare to the Hyundai Genesis. But as someone has already pointed out, a somewhat loaded 328i is already at $40k. While at $40k, you can already get a 305hp TL with SH-AWD and is loaded with features already. Again, if you are purely looking for the prestige of the brand, then Acura certainly isn't for you.