C-003: OFFICIAL Oil Thread (All oil related threads will be merged here)
08-03-2011, 06:10 AM
#84
I guess I take for granted I was rebuilding 2 strokes when I was 12 under a very mechanically savvy father's watchful eye, oil just became one of those common sense things.
You can let the car tell you, or you can pull the dipstick and go "Well, the oil level is good/bad and hmmmmm, this is clear/clear enough/dark/too dark, I probably should/shouldn't go ahead and change the oil".
On the left is what a Dodge Neon's oil color and level looks like at 3000 miles, on the right is what your oil color and level should look like at 3000 miles.
You can let the car tell you, or you can pull the dipstick and go "Well, the oil level is good/bad and hmmmmm, this is clear/clear enough/dark/too dark, I probably should/shouldn't go ahead and change the oil".
On the left is what a Dodge Neon's oil color and level looks like at 3000 miles, on the right is what your oil color and level should look like at 3000 miles.
08-03-2011, 06:23 AM
#85
Suzuka Master
... and by 15 you were rebuilding jet engines? Do you use a viscosity meter to tell if the oil is no good or color all you go by? Yes, I know, black means carbon but that does not mean that the oil is not doing it's job. If you want to keep it golden color, you have to change it at about 2k miles.. or less... but I digress. Changing oil frequency is obviously a personal preference.
If my car manufacturer suggests that I let my car tell me when to change the oil, I will listen to them. It's their warranty. Why do it sooner than needed? I won't sleep better at night if I change it at 50% life?
We've been handed the BS for so many years by oil companies that we HAVE to change the oil at 3k miles that it's refreshing to me that cars not do a much better job of self checking.
If my car manufacturer suggests that I let my car tell me when to change the oil, I will listen to them. It's their warranty. Why do it sooner than needed? I won't sleep better at night if I change it at 50% life?
We've been handed the BS for so many years by oil companies that we HAVE to change the oil at 3k miles that it's refreshing to me that cars not do a much better job of self checking.
08-03-2011, 07:06 AM
#86
Someone needs a little less vinegar with their wheaties this morning.... 
I'd disagree - it's not their warranty, it's your warranty. They can choose to honor it or not honor it, and if they think they can get out of it, or find a way to make you part with more cash for their time, they will; every time.
If you're beating the eyeballs out of the thing every time out, it's going to use as much of a quart of oil in 3000 miles. Yes, it will. Don't believe me? Try it. With the high silicon aluminum sleeves on the new blocks, you're going to have a more forgiving experience - but it will still burn it up.
Under normal and occasionally spirited driving, expect it to use about 1/3 of a quart over 7-8k. The pan is large enough where the 1/3 of a quart isn't a big deal.
Running continually hard on the engine a quart short however, is hard on it. The remaining 4 quarts then take the same abuse that burned up a quart out of a 5q pan in 3000 miles; what do you think it's going to look like at 6000? It's all good though, the counter on the car says I've got 50% oil life left, right?
As someone who's blown up a J motor, and rebuilt a couple, CHECK FOR YOURSELF.
Automation is beautiful, but don't trust the idiot button when your own eyes are telling you a different story.
If you're going to let erring on the side of caution with a $27 oil change even 2000 miles earlier than what you could probably get out of it be a bank breaker, then I wish you the best when arguing with the dealer after it locks up.
I'd disagree - it's not their warranty, it's your warranty. They can choose to honor it or not honor it, and if they think they can get out of it, or find a way to make you part with more cash for their time, they will; every time.
If you're beating the eyeballs out of the thing every time out, it's going to use as much of a quart of oil in 3000 miles. Yes, it will. Don't believe me? Try it. With the high silicon aluminum sleeves on the new blocks, you're going to have a more forgiving experience - but it will still burn it up.
Under normal and occasionally spirited driving, expect it to use about 1/3 of a quart over 7-8k. The pan is large enough where the 1/3 of a quart isn't a big deal.
Running continually hard on the engine a quart short however, is hard on it. The remaining 4 quarts then take the same abuse that burned up a quart out of a 5q pan in 3000 miles; what do you think it's going to look like at 6000? It's all good though, the counter on the car says I've got 50% oil life left, right?
As someone who's blown up a J motor, and rebuilt a couple, CHECK FOR YOURSELF.
Automation is beautiful, but don't trust the idiot button when your own eyes are telling you a different story.
If you're going to let erring on the side of caution with a $27 oil change even 2000 miles earlier than what you could probably get out of it be a bank breaker, then I wish you the best when arguing with the dealer after it locks up.
08-03-2011, 07:39 AM
#87
the car does tell you to change the oil sooner if you drive it hard or have lots of city driving. i personally usually do all my service at the dealer; so ya i'll follow the MID. if i follow it and my engine blows than they will replace my engine under warranty. i'm sure they did lots of testing as to how often you should go before changing the oil and i'm sure they tell you to change it sooner than you really need just to be safe; they're not idiots. that 3000 mile oil change interval is BS from the oil companies to make us change it more often; i once sent a sample of my oil from my 03 accord to that place that analyzes your oil and they told me i had 2K miles left before i needed oil change. on my previous BMW (04 530i) i went a whole year between oil changes (13K miles). i will trust the people who build the cars...
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Stew4HD (08-03-2011)
08-03-2011, 07:58 AM
#88
Suzuka Master
^ Precisely what I was getting at.
Too bad the "Chicken Little's" of the world can't see that but, the oil companies love them and that helps to keep me employed!
I drive my car like a normal person drives a $45K sedan. Since I was rebuilding motorcycles engines at age 4 and car engines at 6
, I learned that the harder you work an engine, the more wear due to load you put on the parts. Driving a car under normal loads significantly increases the life of th eengine and all drive train parts... amazing, isn't it?
This isn't a pissign match, just saying that the manufacturer/dealer/service folks say to use the MID as an indicator when to change the oil.. you are more than welcome to colesely monitor your dipstick
Too bad the "Chicken Little's" of the world can't see that but, the oil companies love them and that helps to keep me employed!
I drive my car like a normal person drives a $45K sedan. Since I was rebuilding motorcycles engines at age 4 and car engines at 6
, I learned that the harder you work an engine, the more wear due to load you put on the parts. Driving a car under normal loads significantly increases the life of th eengine and all drive train parts... amazing, isn't it?This isn't a pissign match, just saying that the manufacturer/dealer/service folks say to use the MID as an indicator when to change the oil.. you are more than welcome to colesely monitor your dipstick
Last edited by Stew4HD; 08-03-2011 at 08:08 AM.
08-03-2011, 08:33 AM
#89
Drifting
My dad thinks I'm crazy for letting my car go more than 3k miles between oil changes. The thing I always come back with is: Wouldn't you think in the last 30 or 40 years they've made enough technological advancements in engine oil that would allow you to go longer than 3k miles?
He always says, you should see how dark my oil is after 3k miles. I tell him to send it out for testing to see how much life it has left, or if it has completely broken down. He still hasn't.
He always says, you should see how dark my oil is after 3k miles. I tell him to send it out for testing to see how much life it has left, or if it has completely broken down. He still hasn't.
08-03-2011, 09:14 AM
#90
Undoubtedly have been advancements. These aren't big iron blocked 1974 Chevy Malibus that need a rebuild every 30k either.
I would normally look at the oil around 6-7k and decide if it was time. After sticking a rod on the 03CL with 85K on a lightly bolted engine, I revisited the logic. Now I check at 3k, and at 5k, and I don't let it go past 7. I've never used anything but Mobil 1 in the N/A cars.
With the 6-7k rule, It was that way on the 99TL, the 01CL, the 02MDX, the 03CLS, the 07TLS and now on the 09TL. Computer says 20-30% left. Is it right? I don't know. I know what I'm comfortable with running in my vehicles.
I sold the 99TL, still running like a top with 284,000, on trans number 2, timing belt and water pump number 3, a 150k EGR replacement, and original head gasket and internals. The engine guts outlasted the paint on that one, and it was garaged.
Sold the 01CL, headers, exhaust, and intake - with 170k on tranny number 2, timing belt and water pump number 2 and original head gasket and original EGR.
For the OP, sorry for trying to help out, apparently trusting the cars computer is all you need to do.
I forget this isn't an enthusiast forum where 3rd and 4th generation gearheads try to offer some insight beyond "RTFM". I think if you invest in some aluminum pedal covers, you'll get more oil life. :eyeroll:
I would normally look at the oil around 6-7k and decide if it was time. After sticking a rod on the 03CL with 85K on a lightly bolted engine, I revisited the logic. Now I check at 3k, and at 5k, and I don't let it go past 7. I've never used anything but Mobil 1 in the N/A cars.
With the 6-7k rule, It was that way on the 99TL, the 01CL, the 02MDX, the 03CLS, the 07TLS and now on the 09TL. Computer says 20-30% left. Is it right? I don't know. I know what I'm comfortable with running in my vehicles.
I sold the 99TL, still running like a top with 284,000, on trans number 2, timing belt and water pump number 3, a 150k EGR replacement, and original head gasket and internals. The engine guts outlasted the paint on that one, and it was garaged.
Sold the 01CL, headers, exhaust, and intake - with 170k on tranny number 2, timing belt and water pump number 2 and original head gasket and original EGR.
For the OP, sorry for trying to help out, apparently trusting the cars computer is all you need to do.
I forget this isn't an enthusiast forum where 3rd and 4th generation gearheads try to offer some insight beyond "RTFM". I think if you invest in some aluminum pedal covers, you'll get more oil life. :eyeroll:
08-03-2011, 11:08 AM
#92
Suzuka Master
That 3,000 to 4,000 miles between changes always cracked me up. The car's manual would recommend roughly 7k miles but the oil companies created this huge campaign to sell more motor oil, recommended we do it 3k miles.. all that stop and go driving, ya know?.. then a huge service business sprang out of that.. Jiffy Lube's were popping up everywhere to satisfy that niche.
I used the recommended frequency of the car maker and never had any premature breakdowns or repairs... but that is just me. I was never much of a street racer other than my old '70 Nova..
I used the recommended frequency of the car maker and never had any premature breakdowns or repairs... but that is just me. I was never much of a street racer other than my old '70 Nova..
08-03-2011, 11:14 AM
#93
Moderator
I think if you invest in some aluminum pedal covers, you'll get more oil life. 
ditto,
never hurts to change it early..
Last edited by potmilkz; 08-03-2011 at 11:19 AM.
08-03-2011, 11:44 AM
#94
your right; also doesnt hurt to change your tires when they have 50% life left. also do your brakes at 50% life.. while your at it, why not do the transmission too? never hurts
see what i'm getting at..your right it cant hurt but it also doesnt help. how do we think we're smarter than the people who build this engine and stand behind it? trust me if it was better to change at 3K miles they would tell us so; more money for them and less likelihood of them needing to change out the engine.. either way do what you want; but dont think your doing something better; your pretty much pissing money away into the pockets of the oil companies
08-03-2011, 11:51 AM
#95
The Sicilian
I think everyone's circumstances and opinions on this subject are going to be different. And it should be whatever makes sense to the individual person.
In my case we bought our 2010 TL in Nov. 2009 and it currently has less than 15,000 miles on it. So I'm averaging about 750 miles a month. So there goes folowing the 3 months or 3,000 mile rule.
So I figure I'm safe with changing it every 3-4,000 miles.
In my case we bought our 2010 TL in Nov. 2009 and it currently has less than 15,000 miles on it. So I'm averaging about 750 miles a month. So there goes folowing the 3 months or 3,000 mile rule.
So I figure I'm safe with changing it every 3-4,000 miles.
08-03-2011, 11:55 AM
#96
I'm deciding to ignore OP and turn this into an oil thread haha. Random link!
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ Heard good things about their oil tests..
So to keep the discussion going, what oils do you use besides dealer/honda/acura oil? I heard a vote for Mobil 1 earlier.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ Heard good things about their oil tests..
So to keep the discussion going, what oils do you use besides dealer/honda/acura oil? I heard a vote for Mobil 1 earlier.
08-03-2011, 04:06 PM
#97
Moderator
i could have sworn Ive read something about metal shavings causing damage to pistons walls, and clogging oil filter..
also if tires and brakes were as cheap as oil, id do it just to be on safe side.. but unfortunately its not..
also if tires and brakes were as cheap as oil, id do it just to be on safe side.. but unfortunately its not..
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Stew4HD (08-03-2011)
08-03-2011, 04:38 PM
#98
Suzuka Master
ummm-kay.. and just how does this play into it? If we don't change the oil every 3,000 miles, we may have metal shavings in our oil? Well, dust particles may get through your air filter and stick to the cylinder walls causing the rings to gouge grooves in the cylinders.. OMG.. now what? Better change your air filter every 3,000 miles too.
08-03-2011, 06:03 PM
#99
Moderator
Are you serious? your comparing dust particles to Metal shavings?
keep in mind, dust particles can get burned off, while metal stays in your motor and circulates with your oil.. and do you know where your oil circulates? Yes you guess it right, your pistons, cylinder side walls, main bearings, etc.
and believe me when i say that our stock air intake filters will never let that happen. its built well enough.
keep in mind, dust particles can get burned off, while metal stays in your motor and circulates with your oil.. and do you know where your oil circulates? Yes you guess it right, your pistons, cylinder side walls, main bearings, etc.
and believe me when i say that our stock air intake filters will never let that happen. its built well enough.
08-03-2011, 07:22 PM
#100
Suzuka Master
I was building motors long before you were even a twinkle in your daddy's eye, please do not preach to me about metal shavings in the oil, pistons, sleeves, etc.
How do you think metal shavings get into the oil? By magic? No, by metal to metal contact.
The POINT being, if you change your oil when you should, be it by MID or whatever frequency you want to, there should NEVER be metal shavings in the oil. But, I am sure you will find fault and reason to argue with that as well... I have nothing further to add to this thread.
How do you think metal shavings get into the oil? By magic? No, by metal to metal contact.
The POINT being, if you change your oil when you should, be it by MID or whatever frequency you want to, there should NEVER be metal shavings in the oil. But, I am sure you will find fault and reason to argue with that as well... I have nothing further to add to this thread.
08-05-2011, 11:01 AM
#101
10th Gear
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not related to anything here, but my dealer in Austin only uses 10-30 grade. because of this i change it myself using Mobil1 synthetic 5-20. 5-20, as the manual states! the lame excuse they gave is Acura sends them 10-30. this is Texas and it is friggin hot. but the manual states 5-20 is sufficient past 100F. forecast for the highs is for 104-107 for the next 10 days. i don't want to lose gas mileage or performance. any comments?
08-05-2011, 11:46 AM
#102
I don't see any reason to argue about this. Honestly change your oil whenever you want. People change their oils whenever they feel they need to based on their driving style or just old habits. If you drive spirited a lot changing the oil out every 3-5k is really what you should be doing. If you drive a 45k car and you're gonna bitch about $30-40(synthetic oil & a new filter) then follow the mid is all I can say. I get about 3-5k before my mid tells me to change it anyway. Not a lot to pay for a peace of mind.
I agree with the oil burning. I once reset my Oil MID cause it was at 10% at 2k miles(Royal Purp burns too easily) so I just reset it back to 100% and figured I would changed it after it hits 20% again. I started getting indicators on my navi telling me check oil level. I start getting these indicators when my oil is about due for change(oil burned). I used to get it a lot when I used royal purp. I just use castrol now and it doesn't burn merely as fast as royal purp under same driving conditions.
Someone needs a little less vinegar with their wheaties this morning....
I'd disagree - it's not their warranty, it's your warranty. They can choose to honor it or not honor it, and if they think they can get out of it, or find a way to make you part with more cash for their time, they will; every time.
If you're beating the eyeballs out of the thing every time out, it's going to use as much of a quart of oil in 3000 miles. Yes, it will. Don't believe me? Try it. With the high silicon aluminum sleeves on the new blocks, you're going to have a more forgiving experience - but it will still burn it up.
Under normal and occasionally spirited driving, expect it to use about 1/3 of a quart over 7-8k. The pan is large enough where the 1/3 of a quart isn't a big deal.
Running continually hard on the engine a quart short however, is hard on it. The remaining 4 quarts then take the same abuse that burned up a quart out of a 5q pan in 3000 miles; what do you think it's going to look like at 6000? It's all good though, the counter on the car says I've got 50% oil life left, right?
As someone who's blown up a J motor, and rebuilt a couple, CHECK FOR YOURSELF.
Automation is beautiful, but don't trust the idiot button when your own eyes are telling you a different story.
If you're going to let erring on the side of caution with a $27 oil change even 2000 miles earlier than what you could probably get out of it be a bank breaker, then I wish you the best when arguing with the dealer after it locks up.
I'd disagree - it's not their warranty, it's your warranty. They can choose to honor it or not honor it, and if they think they can get out of it, or find a way to make you part with more cash for their time, they will; every time.
If you're beating the eyeballs out of the thing every time out, it's going to use as much of a quart of oil in 3000 miles. Yes, it will. Don't believe me? Try it. With the high silicon aluminum sleeves on the new blocks, you're going to have a more forgiving experience - but it will still burn it up.
Under normal and occasionally spirited driving, expect it to use about 1/3 of a quart over 7-8k. The pan is large enough where the 1/3 of a quart isn't a big deal.
Running continually hard on the engine a quart short however, is hard on it. The remaining 4 quarts then take the same abuse that burned up a quart out of a 5q pan in 3000 miles; what do you think it's going to look like at 6000? It's all good though, the counter on the car says I've got 50% oil life left, right?
As someone who's blown up a J motor, and rebuilt a couple, CHECK FOR YOURSELF.
Automation is beautiful, but don't trust the idiot button when your own eyes are telling you a different story.
If you're going to let erring on the side of caution with a $27 oil change even 2000 miles earlier than what you could probably get out of it be a bank breaker, then I wish you the best when arguing with the dealer after it locks up.
09-13-2011, 10:47 PM
#103
An update after the first oil change on my car... used Royal Purple 5w-20 synthetic oil along with an RP filter and the engine now feels lively even during the peak hours of sweltering Houston heat... before the engine wasn't as "eager" as the temps rose, but now there's a marked difference for sure...
09-27-2011, 04:46 PM
#104
Racer
Oil Viscosity
Here's the newest oil viscosity charts from AHMC. These supercede any previous recommendation, including the oil cap on your vehicle. Hope they are helpful.
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lji (03-26-2012)
09-27-2011, 08:02 PM
#107
Instructor
Quick question... I just picked up a 2012 TL SH-AWD Advance and was told by my salesman that they are using 5W-20 full synthetic because of the slight engine changes made in teh 2012... I looked at my owners manual and it did not state that in there only the weight of the oil... I usually use a synthetic blend type oil but did not kow if anyone or you have a preference... If you are a Acura/Honda mechanic please let me know your thoughts...
Thanks
09-27-2011, 08:38 PM
#108
Racer
First question ...
There are two significant differences between 0w20 and 5w20 ...
1) The base oil is a 0 weight in the former and a 5 weight in the latter. Both have VI to match the flow to that of a 20 weight when hot. In the right application, the former can provide better overall results, including fuel economy and; 2) While both are synthetic blends, the former has a VERY high percentage of synthetic ... it is almost a full synthetic (Group III).
Next question ...
The 2012 TL AWD 3.7L does indeed call for a 5w20 viscosity. However, the OEM product IS a synthetic blend. While it is not necessary to upgrade, the car would appreciate the higher quality protection of the Honda/Acura 0w20 full synthetic (Group III).
Hope this helps.
There are two significant differences between 0w20 and 5w20 ...
1) The base oil is a 0 weight in the former and a 5 weight in the latter. Both have VI to match the flow to that of a 20 weight when hot. In the right application, the former can provide better overall results, including fuel economy and; 2) While both are synthetic blends, the former has a VERY high percentage of synthetic ... it is almost a full synthetic (Group III).
Next question ...
The 2012 TL AWD 3.7L does indeed call for a 5w20 viscosity. However, the OEM product IS a synthetic blend. While it is not necessary to upgrade, the car would appreciate the higher quality protection of the Honda/Acura 0w20 full synthetic (Group III).
Hope this helps.
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sadonhonghun (11-03-2011)
11-03-2011, 05:55 PM
#111
Love Guru
It totally depends on how much you drive, how you drive and how much you love your ride.
If you drive in mostly stop and go, and/or give high rpms to your engine, synthetic is a way to go. Because it provides better protection. But if you are just an average driver who doesnt do too much of "Jack Rabbit" starts, revves alot or do lots of stop and go, then the good old dino is perfectly fine. Some people will say that a Walmart brand dino is sufficient for your car as long as it satisfies and meets all the viscosity requirements, but I will say, spend a dollar extra and buy the brand names like Mobil 1, Castrol, Penzoil or Quaker State. It always pays to spend an extra dollar on the oil on the long run.
I myself prefer synthetic oil as soon as I am done with the break-in MOI oil in my Acura, but that is where it ends, I like everything else natural, if you know what I mean.
But then again, I change my car's oil twice a year, at the most, because of car pooling, so shelling out 30 - 40 bucks just for oil twice a year doesnt hurt me that much. Yeah, if I would be changing my car's oil every 3 - 4 months, I would be thinking twice about that.
Also, it always pays if you spend extra bucks on a good oil-filter. Its not always about the oil, oil-filter is a crucial part in the equation. I myself prefer which one is cheaper, the Mobil 1, K&N or the Royal Purple. All three of them are made by the exact same company and the exact same location, but they have different colors and stamping. Just my
Happy Acura-ing.....
If you drive in mostly stop and go, and/or give high rpms to your engine, synthetic is a way to go. Because it provides better protection. But if you are just an average driver who doesnt do too much of "Jack Rabbit" starts, revves alot or do lots of stop and go, then the good old dino is perfectly fine. Some people will say that a Walmart brand dino is sufficient for your car as long as it satisfies and meets all the viscosity requirements, but I will say, spend a dollar extra and buy the brand names like Mobil 1, Castrol, Penzoil or Quaker State. It always pays to spend an extra dollar on the oil on the long run.
I myself prefer synthetic oil as soon as I am done with the break-in MOI oil in my Acura, but that is where it ends, I like everything else natural, if you know what I mean.
But then again, I change my car's oil twice a year, at the most, because of car pooling, so shelling out 30 - 40 bucks just for oil twice a year doesnt hurt me that much. Yeah, if I would be changing my car's oil every 3 - 4 months, I would be thinking twice about that.
Also, it always pays if you spend extra bucks on a good oil-filter. Its not always about the oil, oil-filter is a crucial part in the equation. I myself prefer which one is cheaper, the Mobil 1, K&N or the Royal Purple. All three of them are made by the exact same company and the exact same location, but they have different colors and stamping. Just my
Happy Acura-ing.....
11-03-2011, 07:33 PM
#113
12-10-2011, 01:33 PM
#115
6G TLX-S
My dealership is using 0W20 weight oil, which is synthesis, for the 2012 TL sedans. Conventional oil doesn't go down to 0Wxx.
12-10-2011, 01:50 PM
#117
Don't know what year 3.7L TL engine you're asking about, but the 2010 TL 3.7L engine is not "authorized" by Acura to use the 0W-20 oil... there's a chart on here somewhere...They still recommend the 5W-20 for the 2009-2010 TL 3.7L. I bought Royal Purple (fully synthetic) 5W-20 oil & filter when they were on sale at Pepboys and used it the last time around. The 2012's can use the 0W-20 oil.
Last edited by lji; 12-10-2011 at 01:54 PM.
12-10-2011, 06:18 PM
#119
6G TLX-S
When I was in the dealership a couple days ago installing the aero kit, I asked the service guy on the particular weight of engine oil for my 2012 3.7L-V6 TL-Elite.
The guy showed me an Acura bulletin which was pinned on his reception desk. The factory bulletin specified that all 2012 TL sedans were recommended to use 0W20 engine oil, and this is what the dealership is using for all 2012 TL sedans.
So there shouldn't be any more confusion with the factory bulletin on engine oil weight.
The guy showed me an Acura bulletin which was pinned on his reception desk. The factory bulletin specified that all 2012 TL sedans were recommended to use 0W20 engine oil, and this is what the dealership is using for all 2012 TL sedans.
So there shouldn't be any more confusion with the factory bulletin on engine oil weight.
