Is the AWD faster than just the Front Wheel drive?
09-21-2011, 05:57 PM
#1
Pro
Thread Starter
Is the AWD faster than just the Front Wheel drive?
I was debating with a good buddy of mine who has an AWD, I have a front wheel drive. He said of course his is faster as he has an extra 20 HP underneath his hood.
I explained that since it is AWD, its actually slower because the wheels have to correlate with each making them slow the vehicle down as a matter of fact.
I read this somewhere when I first obtained my Acura TL w/tech package.
Does anyone have any info on this? I remember reading it, I thought i might have been on AcuraZine.
Any help or thoughts on this topic would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
I explained that since it is AWD, its actually slower because the wheels have to correlate with each making them slow the vehicle down as a matter of fact.
I read this somewhere when I first obtained my Acura TL w/tech package.
Does anyone have any info on this? I remember reading it, I thought i might have been on AcuraZine.
Any help or thoughts on this topic would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks in advance!
09-21-2011, 06:50 PM
#2
Moderator
i would naturally assume that the awd is faster.. since it is AWD and about 20hp faster at with 0.2 liters more on the engine.
anyone got numbers?
anyone got numbers?
09-22-2011, 04:33 AM
#5
AWD means out of the hole faster, and MUCH faster through the corners. It is more weight. On this model, it also means a bit more power and torque with the displacement bump; AWD 3.5 vs FWD 3.5, the AWD would still be faster out of the hole and in the corners.
On the SH-AWD system, after the initial launch, the power shift turns it into a FWD car on the straights and only shifts power under cornering loads.
On something like a Subaru or VW/Audi's traditional Quattro, the AWD resistance actually plays against them on top speed and straight-line performance, as it is full time and creates additional resistance and drivetrain loss at all times.
On the SH-AWD system, after the initial launch, the power shift turns it into a FWD car on the straights and only shifts power under cornering loads.
On something like a Subaru or VW/Audi's traditional Quattro, the AWD resistance actually plays against them on top speed and straight-line performance, as it is full time and creates additional resistance and drivetrain loss at all times.
09-22-2011, 09:50 AM
#7
AWD with 6MT and you're talking mid to high fives 0-60
Trending Topics
09-22-2011, 09:53 AM
#8
09-22-2011, 10:31 AM
#12
I think it would be a great drivers race. The TL FWD is basically equivilent to the TSX V6 or 07-08 TL-S auto in straight line acceleration. I think the extra weight of the AWD model negates the extra HP and TQ when you compare auto vs auto. Both run similar 1/4 mile times. From a roll my money is on the FWD. off the line the SH-AWD would have the slight advantage. Only way to really know is if you and your friend line up in a friendly race.
2012 TL FWD - 3699lbs - 13.2lbs per HP
2012 TL SH-AWD -3962lbs - 13.00lbs per HP
Drivers race for sure
2012 TL FWD - 3699lbs - 13.2lbs per HP
2012 TL SH-AWD -3962lbs - 13.00lbs per HP
Drivers race for sure
Last edited by SatinSilverAV6; 09-22-2011 at 10:43 AM.
09-22-2011, 10:47 AM
#13
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
I love the chirp!
AWD means out of the hole faster, and MUCH faster through the corners. It is more weight. On this model, it also means a bit more power and torque with the displacement bump; AWD 3.5 vs FWD 3.5, the AWD would still be faster out of the hole and in the corners.
On the SH-AWD system, after the initial launch, the power shift turns it into a FWD car on the straights and only shifts power under cornering loads.
On something like a Subaru or VW/Audi's traditional Quattro, the AWD resistance actually plays against them on top speed and straight-line performance, as it is full time and creates additional resistance and drivetrain loss at all times.
On the SH-AWD system, after the initial launch, the power shift turns it into a FWD car on the straights and only shifts power under cornering loads.
On something like a Subaru or VW/Audi's traditional Quattro, the AWD resistance actually plays against them on top speed and straight-line performance, as it is full time and creates additional resistance and drivetrain loss at all times.
This system by Acura with it's torque vectoring is bestial!!!!
Last edited by Steven Bell; 09-22-2011 at 09:41 PM. Reason: Merged Posts.
09-22-2011, 10:57 AM
#14
Reminds me of a Audi A4 2.0 AWD(quattro) vs. FWD(FrontTrak) that the dealer my neighbor works at side-by-side tested. They ran both and the FrontTrak was 1/2 sec faster to 60mph.
But who the hell wants an Audi "FrontTrak"???
But who the hell wants an Audi "FrontTrak"???
09-22-2011, 06:51 PM
#18
6G TLX-S
But now the SH-AWD TL has a slightly bigger engine with higher power output, we really have to test them side by side in order to be sure which TL is faster.
The following users liked this post:
Stew4HD (09-23-2011)
09-22-2011, 08:56 PM
#21
Three Wheelin'
as i said sh-awd from a stop. i do not know about rolling, frankly the difference is not that great. why does this matter so much? AWD benefits far outweigh FWD's. owning a 2003 acura tl i sometimes hate its tendency to toruqe steer and lose grip on launch. it's also not that great here in canadian winter. of course there were no AWD TLs back then or i would have bought it for sure.
Last edited by pickler; 09-22-2011 at 08:58 PM.
09-23-2011, 01:01 AM
#22
It's difficult to generalize but with most brands the AWD is usually a variant using the same engine and tranny and is rarely slower than a RWD or FWD counterpart on paper. Altough the AWD adds weight and experiences additional drivetrain losses, it also gains added traction and almost always uses shorter, more agressive gearing. That's why they are usually still in line with the 2WD version and performance stats are largely the same. Those issues are well compensated for, so it's pretty much a wash.
In some situations, like a roll race or top end acceleration, where traction advantages don't play a big roll, the additional weight of the AWD will usually still find a way to manifest itself. That is, if there is no added power, with the only differences being the additional mechanics for the AWD and shorter gearing, which is what we normally see in AWD variants.
The TL is different because it adds a sport distinct model with a larger more powerful engine (plus other performance enhancements) and is not just added AWD, but it's also worth mentioning that the drivetrain loss gap between a FWD and AWD variant is usually a bit larger than that of a RWD and AWD variant instead. So I don't suspect that 100% of the statistical power advantage of the SH is fully represented in the performance difference but there is still an overall edge with the SH in this regard.
As far as the acceleration differences, it's hard to say for sure but for many of those reasons above, I would safely assume the SH is faster from a stop and then they are both pretty equal from a roll, probably depends on who hits the gas first. Again, looking at most RWD vs AWD variants as an example, they are very much the same as far as 0-60 and 1/4 mile is concerned but the RWD usually still has the top end and roll acceleration advantages being that traction advantages of the AWD don't play a big role there and the two models are often powered exactly the same.
Because the TL SH has the power bump over the FWD, I am lead to believe that the top end and roll acceleration are very much the same and one of the reasons the extra power is there in the SH is to level those aspects off. Again, the SH is supposed to be a sport distinct model as opposed to just an AWD variant, so hypothetically, having the same performance numbers but the FWD being measurably faster from a roll and in top end acceleration would kind of defeat the purpose of a sport model in the first place. So those two aspects of acceleration seem much more in line in the TL variants than other 2WD and AWD variants.
This would apply to comparable transmissions of the same pre MMC and post MMC models, not the 5AT models vs the new 6AT models or having anything to do with the last gen, since those scenarios would change some things.
In some situations, like a roll race or top end acceleration, where traction advantages don't play a big roll, the additional weight of the AWD will usually still find a way to manifest itself. That is, if there is no added power, with the only differences being the additional mechanics for the AWD and shorter gearing, which is what we normally see in AWD variants.
The TL is different because it adds a sport distinct model with a larger more powerful engine (plus other performance enhancements) and is not just added AWD, but it's also worth mentioning that the drivetrain loss gap between a FWD and AWD variant is usually a bit larger than that of a RWD and AWD variant instead. So I don't suspect that 100% of the statistical power advantage of the SH is fully represented in the performance difference but there is still an overall edge with the SH in this regard.
As far as the acceleration differences, it's hard to say for sure but for many of those reasons above, I would safely assume the SH is faster from a stop and then they are both pretty equal from a roll, probably depends on who hits the gas first. Again, looking at most RWD vs AWD variants as an example, they are very much the same as far as 0-60 and 1/4 mile is concerned but the RWD usually still has the top end and roll acceleration advantages being that traction advantages of the AWD don't play a big role there and the two models are often powered exactly the same.
Because the TL SH has the power bump over the FWD, I am lead to believe that the top end and roll acceleration are very much the same and one of the reasons the extra power is there in the SH is to level those aspects off. Again, the SH is supposed to be a sport distinct model as opposed to just an AWD variant, so hypothetically, having the same performance numbers but the FWD being measurably faster from a roll and in top end acceleration would kind of defeat the purpose of a sport model in the first place. So those two aspects of acceleration seem much more in line in the TL variants than other 2WD and AWD variants.
This would apply to comparable transmissions of the same pre MMC and post MMC models, not the 5AT models vs the new 6AT models or having anything to do with the last gen, since those scenarios would change some things.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 09-23-2011 at 01:13 AM.
09-23-2011, 02:00 PM
#23
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
As stated in this post elsewhere, the TL SH-AWD is the sportier of the two for a reason...to have the base perform better at either stand still or from a roll would be...dare I say ludicrous. The base FWD model serves it purpose similar to the days of the premium TL/CL and the Type-S versions.
Not sure what it does for your 0-60 time though
09-24-2011, 06:37 PM
#27
^There doesn't seem to be adequate enough testing of the 2012 SH 6AT to put it in terms of numbers IMO but Acura has claimed about a .4 improvement in 0-60 compared to the 5AT. So figure whatever gap there was has probably been cut in half, more or less.
A personal estimate would be a difference somewhere around .3 -.5 of sec in 0-60 and 1/4 mile, with about half of that difference being a product of the 6MT's higher (4k rpm) launch ability. So for everyday driving, it's a lot less noticable and fairly insignificant as opposed to racing.
A personal estimate would be a difference somewhere around .3 -.5 of sec in 0-60 and 1/4 mile, with about half of that difference being a product of the 6MT's higher (4k rpm) launch ability. So for everyday driving, it's a lot less noticable and fairly insignificant as opposed to racing.
Last edited by winstrolvtec; 09-24-2011 at 06:40 PM.
09-25-2011, 10:24 AM
#29
DEAD WRONG. http://www.zeroto60times.com/Acura-0-60-mph-Times.html
Might want to google your info next time
09-27-2011, 12:16 PM
#30
Mademoiselle Chanel!!
Hmm, I think what we have here is a case of model envy, LMAO! Why would Acura make a sportier car then have it out performed by the base model? I understand the added weight, but I also understand the reason for a engine with a larger displacement and more horse power...could it possibly be he engineers knew they were pulling more weight and want a better handling sedan with better performance. Oh wait no, that can't be....why would they do that?
09-27-2011, 09:10 PM
#32
Intermediate
According to Road and Track
"The most powerful Acura engine ever, the 3.7 pulls hard and evenly, lower-pitched off idle and swelling to a cleaner, more urgent sound near the 6700-rpm redline. It accelerates the TL to reasonably quick times, but at 6.3 seconds to 60 and 14.8 sec. at 96.7 mph through the quarter mile, it's considerably off the pace of a key competitor, the BMW 335i, which generates corresponding numbers of 5.0 and 13.5 at 104.5. Even the front-drive version of the new TL pips the SH-AWD flagship in acceleration by a tenth in each contest, despite a slightly taller final-drive ratio and 25 less bhp from a smaller 3.5-liter V-6. The front-drive TL's 263-lb.-lighter curb weight evens the score with Father Physics."
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/ca..._sh-awd_page_2
"The most powerful Acura engine ever, the 3.7 pulls hard and evenly, lower-pitched off idle and swelling to a cleaner, more urgent sound near the 6700-rpm redline. It accelerates the TL to reasonably quick times, but at 6.3 seconds to 60 and 14.8 sec. at 96.7 mph through the quarter mile, it's considerably off the pace of a key competitor, the BMW 335i, which generates corresponding numbers of 5.0 and 13.5 at 104.5. Even the front-drive version of the new TL pips the SH-AWD flagship in acceleration by a tenth in each contest, despite a slightly taller final-drive ratio and 25 less bhp from a smaller 3.5-liter V-6. The front-drive TL's 263-lb.-lighter curb weight evens the score with Father Physics."
http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/ca..._sh-awd_page_2
09-28-2011, 12:02 AM
#34
6G TLX-S
Not me. I always says that 2WD cars are faster than their AWD counterparts when drag raced in the dry.
But the TL is slightly different, being that the AWD version has more torque which also comes in earlier in the rpm band.
But the TL is slightly different, being that the AWD version has more torque which also comes in earlier in the rpm band.
09-28-2011, 07:05 AM
#35
Suzuka Master
What if a skinny guy was drivig the AWD and a fat guy driving the FWD? What then?The extra HP of the SH-AWD compensates for the difference in weight... but you just go on hating the TL... you do it so well
09-28-2011, 07:06 AM
#36
whats the point of the conversation? are we seriously talking about 0.2 difference in 0-60, which means nothing to everyday driving? at the end of the day the AWD version is sportier since it takes corners much better and has superior handling in the bad weather. it also rides firmer and has no torque steer. you can try to justify getting the FWD version all you want but at the end of the day the sh-awd is better than the FWD in every way except gas mileage.
The following users liked this post:
Stew4HD (09-28-2011)
09-28-2011, 11:12 AM
#39
Team Owner
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO (Overland Park, KS)
Posts: 36,545
Received 6,470 Likes
on
5,162 Posts
Guys, these are all good points and good aspects of each TL. Please, just don't make these conversations personal and stay focused on the topic.
09-28-2011, 11:57 AM
#40
Moderator