winstrolvtec

Ya because of the smaller engine and exhaust note. Otherwise you would be suggesting the I4 is more refined than the V6 even with noise cancellation. Understand the DBA test is not a refinement measure. there are plenty of smaller lower DBA vehicles than the TSX, does that make them more refined? NO

So Motortrend in a comparison against each other gave the TSX more points than the TL? NO. The TSX is Honda grade interior except for the leather on the seats, that's it. Why, because it's a Honda. You said it yourself, "more upscale interior" so it doesn't matter what they write, understand it's means little in the real world.

The TL SH has displayed near super car like handling. No amount of modification will make the TSX as dynamically capable against a stock SH.

Right, the FWD TL is not a competitior to the TSX because it's a class above and the SH is even further out of the question. The TL SH can be discounted for nearly the same price of the TSX V6 and it has crap for ability in comparison for about the same price. For the same price or worst case within $2k no one in their right mind is getting the TSX V6.

YetiTL

Now if Acura came in with a TSX v6 with SH-AWD (and the 305hp engine), I would at least take it for a test drive...

*cough*Not that I would like to see that happens*cough*

SSFTSX

Can you name those small cars the cars which have lower price and lower DBA numbers than TSX?
Let me give you the answer. it is Audi A4/BMW3/5 series. Not even ES350/IS350/250.
Motortrend gives points based on comparision across the manufacturers. Audi A4 was one point ahead in interior than TSX. TL got the lowest in luxury car category.
Audi A4 despite having 110inch wheel base have achieved 70mph with sport suspension on edmunds test.(It doesnot have latest torque vectoring) There no reason not believe TSX with sport suspension cant do it. after all Diesel Type S is as heavy as V6 TSX.
FWD TL is not class above despite being larger size/HDD/Push button and smaller volume. (TSX is EuroAccord so R&D is spread over larger number of vehicles). There is no engine related costs.

SSFTSX

Remember GT version has special suspension and still it is better than Honda Legend. Type S version goes beyond it.

winstrolvtec

It's laughable and childish when taking the media so literally. Do yourself a favor and go visit the dealers to get an idea of where things are in perspective. Not only that you are talking about models not available in North America. The Honda Legend or RL is luxury intended no type S distinction. Either way agressively upgrade the suspension and tires on an SH AWD setup and you have a supercar and more potential to be far better than any modified Euro Accord or TSX since FWD has it's limitations as so do 4 cylinders.

You must think you pay thousands of dollars for an RL over a TSX and TL because of it's name. No, you pay for the extra luxury and refinement as you progress up the brand or any brand for that matter, everyone knows this. For what's it's worth the TL won Ward's Auto interior of the year award vs all premium brands. Ride quality is subjective to everyone including the author of your precious publications. The GT or grand "touring" may be very good but understand that the better it rides the worse it handles. No configured TSX will be able to match the combination of handling and ride quality of a stock SH, period. We are talking about one TSX primarily in stock form and you keep pulling up all this other irrelevant garbage cause your argument is fraud and you know it, unless you want to biuld a $50k FWD TSX, LOL.

The truth about DBA is in the idle. As you know the FWD TL does a better job by 2 decibals at idle vs the TSX V6 even with the noise cancellation and it's the same engine, I wonder why. At idle is where it strictly has to do with the car and materials itself but the cruising or at 70 mph test has much more to do with driving conditions, it's size, therefore air resistance, engine, exhaust note and tires, all fact. As a standard the TL does a better job with DBA on build alone and the rest comes from many other variables, ending that discussion once and for all.

SSFTSX

TL SH-AWD is already expensive and aero package is not impressvie to change its look to make it unique. so no point in modifying it.

This not simple media like a newspaper writing a review. They are professional magazine with experianced experts. you are still not getting the point. There are three standards of EuroAccord. Standard/GT/Type-S . Type-S will be probably closer to BMW. even GT exceeds Honda Legend. and it is not just from one Magazine. look at www.whatcar.com ratings. It is 4 star in refinement.
http://www.evecars.com/car-review.aspx?rt=458&EC=0


Again your making statement without factual back up. that people pay premium for RL/Honda Legend over EuroAccord.
TSX in US downgraded. it is not even equal to GT version let alone Type S.
What is price difference between RL and Type S. (once you add Techpack/navipack/pearl paint/autotransmission).
Now Type S is launched even in gasoline engine. $50K TSX will be built by Mugen and it will have great resale value, shape and special seats.

you can see Honda is continously adding new models to EuroAccord but no such investment in Legend.

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...rd-euro-type-s
Honda adds 201 horsepower gasoline engine to Accord Euro 'Type S'


so you want judge cars how its engine creates nosie standing? I want to consider ever thing from tire noise, wind noise and engine noise at triple digit speeds. if at 70mph it is big difference. how much will be difference at 90mph? and it is not true that bigger car means more DBA. BMW 5 series have lower DBA than 3 series.

winstrolvtec

Are these cars available in North America? NO. What is the topic in the thread? TL or TSX V6 consideration. All irrelevant information.

This has nothing to do with the thread but the US TL SH is a new model to the Legend platform variant. Little market for such a car in Europe, there is no point.

No not really, it's the point about materials and refinement and DBA you keep trying to make which is wrong. The TL has better material and soud proofing, it wins the idle DBA and full throttle DBA. The TSX has the 70 mph DBA. You must always drive at 70mph even in residential neighborhoods. The TL wins two out of three DBA tests without noise cancellation and you say the TSX is more refined, you know little about nothing my freind. The TL is way better in this regard. The only reason the TSX wins the 70 mph test is more rubber, noise cancellation and test conditions and just maybe the TSX revs point is a little lower at 70 mph than the TL making it more quiet at 70, think about it. It needs noise cancellation to acheive those results, the TL doesn't. You stress 70 mph but what about 10, 20, 30, 40 mph, etc.,etc. What if I change the tires? See the point. The TL is better from square one, since they share engines it's easy to see. Many things in magazines are too variable and too one dimensional to take seriously, as an enthusiast you should know better. That's what test drives are for.

And in the case of the TL FWD and TSX built on the same platform, sharing the same engine, size and air resistance go hand and hand and do affect driving DBA. The BMW 550 is worse at idle and equals the other 335 DBA results and M5 is worse then 335 in all DBA tests, it should be well understood why you see such differences.

SSFTSX

The point of spending $40k on car is too customize both interior/exterior/suspension to make it Uniqueand every thing is available and i can just go outside and buy it or ship it online. there is no point in investing larger car that is less refined from begining.


Car like TL has no future in EU. so it is mute point of creating accessories world wide for it.


I want to see a single magazine tests where TL achieves smaller DBA number than TSX. The ansewer is none. Even RL cant do it. 70mph is freeway speed where you have to bear it for hrs. not some intercity driving.
how many inches have TL width more than TSX?. why not compare 535 with 335? M5 is different with high reviving engine not a low torque engine like turbo.

winstrolvtec

You are free to do whatever you like but a $50k+ TSX might be unique but it's not really worth it on a FWD. $50k buys a lot of better more capable cars than the TSX. I don't know what TSX you are looking at but the way Acura builds it's models is the TSX than TL and than RL with refinement, size, price and prestige in order. If it's too big for your tastes or you don't like the style I understand but to suggest it's less refined is ignorant.

But that doesn't mean there are no accessories and won't be many more available for the TL and doesn't mean you can't customize it.

Man, the magazine must drive your car for you too. Edmunds, my man, Edmunds. The TL FWD surpasses the TSX V6 at idle and at full throttle with no noise cancellation according to Edmunds. You bear driving in silence for hours, no open windows or stereo?, I knew something was wrong with you but I didn't want to say anything. City driving is just as important and don't disregard idle either. Whatever it's worth the only time I actually don't have the window open or stereo on is when I start it at idle.

1.6 inches wder, .5 inch taller and almost 10 inches longer. Simple the TL is built better for DBA but is a little worse only at higher speed because of the lower profile tire and ANC. Without noise cancellation the TSX build would be exposed. Doesn't mean it's bad but let's be real it's only an entry level. Is it better at 70 mph? Yes. Does that make it more refined? No.

That's my point just because you read about DBA doesn't make the 335 more refined than the M5. There are reasons outside of build and refinement for worse or better DBA results. They have less to do with it than you think.

CGP CL9

well.... theres a japanese cl7 (jdm first gen tsx), a cl9 which is what we have in america and a handful of other countries, HOWEVER..... there was a CL8 which was all wheel drive, but only available in certain countries.
if the new tsx follows that trend at all, then there could be an awd v6 tsx. which would be a pretttty smart move imo, bc that would make it competition with a lot of other cars.
but... i like the tsx wagon for some reason and i hope that comes to the states.

SSFTSX

So whole world magazines are telling that TSX Euro Accord is mroe refined than RL (Legend). You can also upgrade it with wood grain interior. FWD cars not less refined than RWD. and add sport suspension, low profile summer tire and it turn into sports car.




Aerokit does not look good. and what other Customize car you can buy for $50K?. Most of German cars are V6 at that price point and with spartan interior. nothing fancy.

No one sit in idle car for too long. so it is moot.


V6 TSX they say is taller than I4 because it has larger tire diameter. Car is not entry level. Its price almost approaches Honda Legend and it does not even include AFS lighting price. It is just strip down in US configuration. M5 is not built for refinement alone.

winstrolvtec

Relax bro, it's one magazine that said maybe the ride quality was as good, since when does ride quality alone mean it's more refined overall? This may be the case in Europe since they focus on smaller more effecient vehicles but in North Americathe TSX is not even close and has nothing to do with the thread since it is about the North American TSX V6 vs the TL FWD. The modified TSX would be very sporty and I would never suggest RWD is more refined than FWD but in order to do all that interior and exterior work you want to do to a TSX you might need $55-$60k with installation costs and at that point you could get the new S4 or any other entry level premium, even any mid sized level premium also.

No one drives in complete silence either, that's also moot.

Those are the TSX V6 dimensions. The NA TSX is nearly as nice and large as the 3G TL and that was more of a mid sized, but let's face it Acura has positioned the NA TSX as it's entry level compact, that's where it stands and where it's marketed and competes, there is not dispute for that. The TSX in NA is nowhere near the NA RL. If it's so close to the Legend, what is the TL? It's not farther away. It may be stripped down for US configuartion but it is what it is here and that's what the thread is about. Since the M5 is not built for refinement alone than you should understand that many other cars are also not built on refinement alone. Many things make up refinement not just ride quality or DBA.

SSFTSX

From where this $55K figure comes from?
Non-Tech V6 is around $33K. add $8k for Mugen package. it is still around $40. for car with special looks, more refinement and performance than TL/RL. It is a bargain.
here is Civic sedan example. Remember there is no Type-S in regualar Civic Si. which is downgraded than Civic Type R.
It is unique experiance of same comfort/refinement with better handling. it is best of both worlds like FWD TL combined with TL-SH-AWD without penalty of AWD.



certianly but quietness if perferable then noise.


It does not matter where TSX price starts. Remember. JDM Fit starts lower than Civic but when you add all the bells to Fit like Civic. its price is almost becomes like Civic. Infact in Asia new City with smaller engine is pretty close to Civic with smaller wheels etc.
Honda has unique pricing strategy. That point your not getting it. You should remember always DBA is standard measure on which refinement is measure for all Magazine tests around the world. There is no second guessing about that. Dont confuse word refinement with comfort. comfort can be tweaked by tires/suspension/seats.

$30k FWD Mugen Civic can pull 0.92g. I am pretty sure Type S suspension TSX can repeat that performance even better.

winstrolvtec

If you are not adding options and packages than you can also get other premium cars for $40k minus the options and packages. Ask around see how many would take a Mugen TSX vs a TL SH 6MT, since we are talking about the same price.

Fact is the position and the pricing go hand in hand. That's how the brand labels the stature of it's product against each other, that's how it is in all types of sales and manufacturing all over the world. With packages and options you can surpass in price but it means nothing else.

Incorrect. DBA in a Rolls Royce Drophead being a convertible would suffer and is probably not that good against some basic luxury rivals, does that make it less refined? NO. If I am driving in an S class but my tires are very low and road noise is very load but a C350 is now quieter inside does that make it more refined? NO. If I change out the tires in the TL or add active noise cancellation so at 70 mph it's DBA is better than the TSX, now the TL is more refined, right? If what you say is correct than yes. If DBA is this universal standard than the TL is better at idle and at full throttle so how can it be more refined at idle and full throttle but not 70 mph?, the materials didn't change. If I improve insulation and soud proofing in a 1990 Chevy Astro Van so it's better than the TSX than it's more refined right? Do you see the point?

Don't confuse quieter (and only at 70 mph) with refinement. Refinement can add to comfort but generally not the other way around and it is a completely different thing, no confusion on my part. Also tires are a huge part of driving DBA so a change to a really good touring make will improve DBA, so that can also be tweaked. Refinement is more of a reflection of quality in materials and also in build.

SSFTSX

Most people dont wan to invest time in customizing vehicle. they buy what is available. What do u think in the rest of world Sell. Euro Accord GT/Type-S/Honda Spirior?.


I mentioned exact same configuration. Put 1.8L Honda City with 1.8L Honda Civic. with same rim size, same suspension setup, same navigation. which one is expensive? Honda strategy opposite of other car makers. same is true for Euro Accord Type S vs Honda Legend.
And another point. you simply cant compare a JDM Honda with overseas.
How many stars TSX got in Motortrend Finalists? 4 stars. If TL cant beat a downgraded TSX let alone a Mugen TSX. which is world aparts.







Rollsroyce is never about refinement. Handcrafted cars are not made to same tolerance levels. try again. (Think Lexus/Hyunadi Gensis)

winstrolvtec

Most of your defense is irrelevant, it's has nothing based on the North America Honda/Acura vehicle structure.

[QUOTE]The TSX's steering effort seems a tad light, and on uphill ascents, you need to keep the revs howling to maintain the excitement level. But this is an unusually sensitive driver, a credible poor man's BMW 3 Series (or maybe 1 Series).[QUOTE]

"Artificial feeling" in regards to the steering and it's also the same on the TSX with the same electric steering system and feeling. It's intent is luxury feel for low speed and sport for high speed. If steering is a real concern the 6MT SH will have the only revised electric steering for better sport and driving feel.

Reading in between the lines. The design rating goes to the TSX by one star, design is subjective. Engineering is equal in MT ratings. Interior and interior only, four stars for the TSX. Interior and functionality combined for the TL for some reason, three stars. Functionality is subjective, magazines don't like all the bottoms, owners like it, subjective. Performance, five stars for the TL and four for the TSX. Very important to many buyers as is size and comfort and refinement, but the TSX is only the four but handling and braking are obvioulsy down on the TSX V6 anyway. Ease of use, three stars TSX, two stars TL, can anybody tell me what ease of use is actually defined as by Motortrend? I believe that is highly vaque and very subjective. Safety and value are equal, but everybody knows that if you want to compare the TSX V6 and considering it's price, the value is in the favor of either model TL being a mid sized and nearly the same price. Safe to say that despite crash test ratings they use the size and SH would be a slight advantage in safety.

This is where you lost any support for your debate.

SSFTSX

your still not getting the point. Once you are spending above $40k on car. it is better to have customized car than a standardized. thats what Honda is doing in EU.
how many stars do u think Mugen TSX would have got?









Agains 4cyinder TSX with standard suspension and all season tires have decent handling. SH-AWD does not give any points to TL only the V6.
TSX lose one star in performance due to lack of V6. TSX interior is not of high quality as TL but still it beats it in functionality.
when TL loses out it is subjective. and all Magazines are biased. You are ignoring the fact that Euro Accord was designed as global car from Start. so the R&D spending and aerodynamics/structure testing took years. while TL is just souped up USDM accord by putting a SH-AWD.
how a car safety becomes equal when one is decidedly smaller?



surely.

winstrolvtec

If I spend nearly $40k and then still have to customize or improve it then I better not buy it, that's what $20k Honda Civics are for, not $40k + luxury cars. The fact that you feel a need to still have to customize tells you everything you need to know, that it's not good enough from the start. Just how much money is someone supposed to spend customizing and still no 6MT with a V6 or non FWD drivetrain. Much better off buying a TL SH 6MT. Mature adult minded people don't find the need to have to radically customize a $40k car, there is something wrong with that.

Mugen will run $10k with installation and you get a suspension, wheels, full body kit, and +6 hp exhaust, and you will have to get your own tires. LOL. It's half on looks alone, no functionality added and no real performance either. Ride quality and DBA in turn will suffer and it's not even configured to the TSX V6 only the 4 cylinder. I'd rather buy an Accord coupe V6, 6MT and customize that. That TSX will cost you $43K at MSRP and that's only the 2.4L. For the TL, add only $1k for HPT and 19's and the body kit online for another $1k and your done, cost $46k. For another $3k you get a much larger full mid sized car instead of a compact, more luxury, refinement and tech. It's more spacious and comfortable. Will out perform the TSX in every way and doesn't look and sound like a little rice rocket. Most importantly you get a 3.7 V6 and SH-AWD and better return on the money. With better discounts on the TL that $3k difference is really only $1k or $2k. The extra $10k for customized parts and labor on the TSX can't be financed or leased into it and you wouldn't lease that TSX to then modify it with $10k worth of parts and labor. The loaded TL lease will cost as much as the stock TSX finance every month and you still need to put $10k into it. The smart thing to do from the car stand point and the financial would be to lease the TL and invest the $10k instead.

Design, ease of use, and functionality are all subjective, no way around it. Lots of buttons does not mean less functionality it means more and once learned it makes it easier to use all the functions. Not to mention when there is more advanced tech present it's more things to learn how to use but that adds function doesn't take it away. This is why opinion and perception can interfere with reality and also why the magazines don't tell it like it actually is, they tell it how one or a few see it.

SSFTSX

It is good enough from start thats i want to customize it. because when you do extra effort and investment in car. you increase its uniqness/value.
http://www.mugen-power.com/top.html
Dont put 6MT and refinement in same sentence. 6MT TSX is noiser than 5AT. only talk DSG. FWD dont matter when there is sport suspension like Type-S or Mugen.
lighte alloy wheel with summer performance tires will improve performance than all season. leases are for those cars that lose values. TSX is rock solid. compare 04 TSX price with 04 TL price.(that was the best generation). 04 TSX came out in early 2003. and was only $28K on MSRP. they are still selling for $14K. 6 years after induction. Current TL dont stand a chance against new TSX.
check the Japanese accord navigation system. offcourse they dont want to put expensive systems in smaller cars.
http://www.honda.co.jp/ACCORD/webcatalog/navigation/

I always like special colors like Cobalt blue.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tsx-2009-2014-143/rear-sports-bumper-742243/

winstrolvtec

If you feel this way than more power to you but I doubt many feel the same. The 6MT and 5AT in the same car are equally refinement it's the noise level that is different.

A FWD Honda product under the right setup can achieve very good skidpad numbers but it's still inferior to SH-AWD as an all weather vehicle and it's still very limited in certain handling dynamics. It will always give you greater potential not just in handling but also in it's ability to manage extreme engine modification as well.

All recently used Acura products are doing very well in that regard. I think it is important to realize that what something is selling for is not what it gets sold for. The real figures are in the blue book values. The 3G is better overall in resale not just on a few individual cases and there is nothing to suggest that it will be any different this time except your opinion. Here's a clue, the TSX V6 is in many opinions is well overpriced for what it is, the TL in either model is well underpriced.

No, it's actually a very bad idea to lease a car with a poor pre set residual and that residual has no say on what the actual resale value will actually be.

That's why I bought a KBP 3G TLS and perhaps you should have looked into a used one. For around $27k US you can't go wrong and it's much more sport car than the TSX V6 and it comes in 6MT.

SSFTSX

SH-AWD setup is unrefined/slow/expensive/less fuel efficient to maintain over long term. for All weather i will use SUV and not all people live in rough weather. u have to remember now even in EU there is little snow in most places let alone in tropics.


All used Acuras are not doing well. ur again passing opinions. compare the MSRP prices with current asking on dealer lots. TSX V6 is well recieved by all magazine tests. no one is complaining.


Again less refined than V6 TSX. 3G TL has even higher NVH levels than 4G TL. Key point is refinement/safety/turn circle. TSX is world and it is likely it will get more upgrades along the way. TL cannot be successful outside NA.

winstrolvtec

Everything with exception to fuel economy is only your opinion and perception. I guess Acura, the luxury division of Honda, decided to build all their cars around SH because it's slow, inferior to FWD and less refined. Better all weather capabilities are still there if needed or not and everybody gets rain and there is no contest in driving dynamics.

Around here they are and the north east probably makes up the much of the Acura sales percentage anyway. That's the point asking price is not selling price, it's all about the blue book value. Easily take $3k off after negotiation pricing. Most 07 certified pre owned 3G TLS' are going for $30k sticker. The TSX V6 is well received in magazines but nobody is buying it and loyal customers complain about pricing, the TL is trashed in the magazines and it is outselling many competitors and the owners are very satisfied by the new product. Magazine editors are not everyday consumers and vice versa.

More refined, yet noisier due to type s sport distinction. More spacious, more comfortable, better handling and braking (brembos). Understand that the 3G TL is what the TSX is trying to be. Refinement/safety/turn circle/gas mileage, just like my grandmother. The world can keep their Accord, we have one, theirs is having a hard time even being considered entry level luxury here. It is one of the main reasons why Acura can't seem to distinquish themselves from Honda, it's not all that much more refined than the NA Accord offerings especially for the money and it needs an exclusive NA V6 model to even be able to continue to quietly compete in a bottom luxury segment otherwise it might as well be a Honda here. It's a good thing the 3G did as well as it did here, otherwise Acura might have been on the way out and the TSX would have been a more fitting Honda model for NA or maybe not available at all. The NA TL is what forced Honda to get their game up. It's why the RL sales were canabalized, why the current TSX is given higher aspirations and why the entire Acura sedan lineup is being pushed up segment and why we may actually see a proper flagship from Acura one day, not Honda's leftovers.

kevTL888

if you bought a TL just for its size, then there's nothing to be said, you picked the right choice for your need. however, other than the size and a modest better tech package (which will be leveled with the TSX when the TSX gets their mmc), i'd pick a v6 TSX over a memoth, american build highway cruiser any day of the week. imo, front wheel cars have to come in a smaller packages if you want the excellent handling and TSX is just perfect in that sense.

PetesTL

The TSX isn't that small.....it's actually pretty big for its segment. If you're looking for a small performance sedan that's in the same price range as the TSX V6, there are better choices. (Besides, FWD just doesn't belong in a sports sedan in the first place). The WRX and EVO are much better performing (and more fun-to-drive) cars than the TSX V6 and you get AWD to boot.

winstrolvtec

As far as the 4G FWD TL vs the TSX V6, I really can't disagree much. It's a very good comparison and a tough choice but when you bring the SH and new 6MT into the equation it is a completely different story. The other point about it is the MSRP may be a large gap but in reality a TL SH can be bought within $2k for what you will pay for a TSX V6 anyway, not to mention you can get a better deal on a base TL over a TSX V6. Coming from a 3G TLS I would not follow that up with a TSX V6 or a FWD TL, but if coming from a 3G base either one is a good upgrade with a few differences to consider. Looking at the other side, the TSX may get the navi upgrade but the TL MMC will then add even more distiction between the two since the RL is out of the way.

That about sums it up. If handling is the main priority than FWD should not really be an option, anyway. For practical FWD buyers who still want some sportiness, the TSX 4 may be a bit lighter on it's feet but the V6 is not and the TSX is now more in line with the size of the 3G TL, so it's not as small as it once was. The 3G TLS is a damn fine FWD product for those buyers and is still very sporty and capable in stock form with a 6MT available and does an excellent job of balancing ride and handling but the problem is the TSX V6 is not and does not. The only other alternative for an Acura product is the TL SH when considering excellent handling.

Bo_Darville

how about compared to the 2012 TL?

i would submit #2 & #3 & #6 all sway in the TL's favor now, and #1 is a disadvantage for the immediate future. with the engine refinements and the 6AT, the TL gets better mileage and only weighs 35lbs more despite being noticeably larger.

Edward'TLS

This topic was dead.

Why bring it back up from the grave ?

Bo_Darville

because there were no recent threads regarding a v6 tsx vs. tl comparo, and the '12 tl made significant changes since 2009, and people still buy cars and still cross-shop

but now i understand how you acquired 3,860 posts

Edward'TLS

"50 steps laughing at 100 steps".

Please Newbie, in case you don't know, there is a function called "Find more posts by Edward'TLS".

Take your time, go through all my previous posts, especially on my contributions to the 2G sub-forums. Then you'll have a much better understanding of how I acquired my 3,860 posts, next time before you start posting again.

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

This was my initial debate, since I refuse to pay the new car premium on the TL, do I want a new TSX or a 6 month old TL, because they're effectively the same money.

The TSX is plenty nice, but it's the little sister. The TL and RL are arguably equals, one being the plaything and the other being for the grandparents.

As someone else mentioned, a "Type S" AWD version with the peppier 3.7 (a dual clutch flappy paddle tranny while you're at it boys) and some brake/suspension/aero/interior work - that might be a game changer if they can deliver under 40k....

badgerboy60

I found the thread of discussion relevant. I recently chose a 2010 TL over a new V6 TSX. A new 2012 TL was in my mix of choices, and a lightly used V6 TSX would have been considered if any were on the market (in my area). I also felt that the TSX is the "little sister" especially in terms of styling, and I wanted something distinctive. Which made me rule out the Audi A4 because "everyone has one" and its pedestrian curb appeal. But I really liked how much nimbler the TSX was over the TL during my test drive/s. In the end, I wanted the AWD option for when the weather sucks, and that despite slightly heavier, the 2010 TL would be plenty responsive (in other words, not any more tiring to pilot) during my annoying mixed traffic hour long commute.

In other words, I did chose a 4G AWD TL over a V6 TSX, but it was a close decision, and the nearly total lack of available V6 TSX's (new or not) helped me make the buying decision.

Bo_Darville

i stand corrected -- you are acura forum stud personified

Bo_Darville

this is the more useful type of response i was looking for.

how much nimbler did the tsx feel? on paper, it does not seem like it would be much, but perhaps it has a lower center of gravity? i, too, found the V6 tsx to be scarce, which i attributed in part to overall target production as well as being assembled in japan, which is still in recovery mode. only new ones in my area are 2010's, and none were discounted a penny. 2012 tl, otoh....discount

Pseudomaniac

iTrader: (1)

You say "nimbler". Put the TSX and the AWD TL on the track side my side and watch the TL take corners 25-30mph faster without lifting. While there's no doubting the weight difference, and I took to driving the 09 AWD daily from a 300+ WHP 6 speed CL lowered on Potenzas with upgraded sways and bushings, not to mention am outstanding helical differential, that I don't believe the current TSX gets....The AWD TL destroys it through the corners, despite being 1000lbs or so heavier and making about 50 less horsepower.

It is not light on it's feet; but it will dance when you want it to, and winter driving is phenomenal.

Litt

Yeah the most fun thing with the AWD TL is to downshift and power through the corners.

badgerboy60

I'd probably have a more refined opinion if I had a test track. Instead, I had 15 minutes on a 4 lane State Highway in the V6 TSX. By nimble, I meant I could sense that the brakes had less work to do in slowing down the lighter car. And changing lanes felt easy and relaxed, but this may have more to do with the seats and visibility. In terms of carving turns, of course, the TL SH-AWD would blow away a FWD V6 TSX, and single word descriptions are inadequate to explaining all facets of driving a car, so my apologies there.

I was primarily evaluating cars for commuting on an annoying two lane highway behind dorky seniors terrified of getting a speeding ticket in rural Virginia and Maryland where there are no donut shops, and same seniors who slow down to 25 MPH on pseudo-sharp turns lest their Buick slide off the edge of the earth. So I wanted a car that would be relaxing to drive while I distracted myself with XM radio, but with enough power to pass the pokeys easily when there's 100 feet of dotted center line. *tongue firmly in cheek*

I've previously explained other reasons I picked the TL over TSX, and won't repeat them. I don't know if the lack of current and future inventory have them treading water, but the salesmen at the Acura dealerships are so soft sell as to be invisible.

compewterbleu

There in different leagues...

Bo_Darville

this is my point: was this perception or reality? the fwd v6 tsx is 35 lbs lighter than the fwd tl (according to acura specs). take out the tl's spare tire and the floor mats and they're practically even. the tl is just longer with a longer wheelbase. perhaps the tsx just felt more tossable due to shorter wheelbase? or has more grabby brake set-up?