kevTL888

this is for fwd TL owners only, for those who bought sh-awd, good for you. it has crossed my mind couple times. the main thing about TSX attracted me were: smaller size/more nimble, made in japan, exterior styling is much better than the TL, more aftermarket potential. the things that holding me back were: non-HDD navi, no push button start, no discount whatsoever on the v6 TSX the price for a new v6 TSX is a lot more than what i paid for my fwd TL Tech back in March.

ll_22

No way are you crazy? I guess if it's really too big fine. I don't find the TL that clumsy, are you driving switchbacks all day or something? I'll give you the made in japan part, but I prefer TL's styling/interior/content.

lpe387tt

What?????????? No way!!!

KeithL

While the TSX V6 is liekly to be a rocket and more nimble that the TL, the Tech in the TSX does not make it wroth while for the price premium. for the $4K+ V6 upgrade they shodul have thrown in some other goodies, like upgraded ELS and Nav screen to make it attactive, but then they would have eaten into TL sales.

PetesTL

I agree. Besides losing a lot in the trade, going to a TSX V6 means losing the luxury and features in the TL. Besides, the TSX V6 isn't that much faster than the TL in the first place. Now if you were going from a TL to a EVO MR or a WRX STi, that's completely different and maybe worthwhile if you're looking for a very fast, inexpensive car.

4G Express

Never crossed my mind once

guytdt

I try to be unabiased as much as I can. The answer is still TL if I had a chance now to pick either TL or TSX V6.
If size is important and I need something smaller, I would wait for 3 more months and get VW golf Diesel TDI.

omnimax

f**k no! When I was shopping, I knew the G/335 would totally smoke the TL (and most likely a V6 TSX for that matter) but that wasn't what I was going after. I wanted the more luxury/upmarket feel along with upgrade tech, very unique styling (the TL looks work for me, extremely well ) and close to last, good-enough performance. Given enough time, i'm sure there will be more aftermarket stuff for the TL as well. A good friend of mine has an 09 TSX i4 and its a fine car but it wasn't what I was looking for. It seems to me that if one is looking for small, pocket rocket type car with luxury, the V6 TSX should fit that mode pretty well but I think the TL is really meant for a different demographic. TL works for me, TSX not so much...

Memphis71

I own an 04 TL-AT and I purchased it from my local Acura dealer. During the first few months there were a few "we owe" things they agreed to take care of and this required me to drive loaner cars. By their bad estimation on the length of a job, I got to drive an 09 TSX(4cyl) on a 1000 mile work trip. I was SO delighted to get my 04 TL back. I was not impressed about anything with the TSX. The exterior of the car seemed to be identical in size to my TL, but with about 3-4 inches less rear leg room. The overall design of the interior seemed cheaper and less user-friendly. The 4 cyl sucked and I only got 1 mpg better than I get with my TL. I have averaged 26mpg for 22k miles and I get 30 on straight interstate intervals. The car just feels better and this is comparing a 5 year old 80k mile car to a 5 month old 4k mile car. I wouldn't even consider the TSX V6, because its still the same car! No matter how sporty we want to feel or be, we are driving a sedan. It is NOT a sports car and will never be one. Just sit back, crank up that sweet audio system and enjoy the ride. IMO an 08 TL with navvy is the best car on the market right now. Whoever is trying to decide out there, just don't get caught up in all the hype. Drive them all and try to be open minded. Good Luck!

Memphis71

I just wanted to follow up with my commment on legroom. I looked up these stats and according to Acura the 04-08 TL only has 0.6 in more legroom than the new TSX. I don't know how they measure this, but trust me, when I had the driver's seat in position, it was awkward for me to sit in the back seat, my knees were touching the front seat. When I sit in my 04 TL back seat, I am comfortable and there is additional space for my knees. I am 6' 1". My point is that things can "appear" one way on paper and then be completely different in reality. I have always been a bit of an audiophile for my home stereo. I would do so much research, read all the reviews and get opinions....then I would order and hook it up and it would be WTF! Finally I went to a local audio store and sat down and listened to all the different speakers with the same source....picked a pair and I was happy for years. What is good for my ears may not be for yours and the same goes for our criteria with an automobile. I hope I haven't digressed too much.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

I love the AWD so no.

YetiTL

+1

SSFTSX

TSX measure 185.6inh. 04-08 TL are 187-190inch. TSX has smaller turning circle. TSX is acknowledged leader in Aerodynamic efficiencey/refinement among all Honda product around the world. some versions even have both front/back sensors. Show me anyother luxury car in world that has 18inch standard rims in 4cylinder model.





It is among only car in the world where there is clear separation of HVAC, Navigation, Audio controls in three levels. It got 3 stars on Motortrend interior design despit using cheaper materials.



there is no separation of functional areas. the clock screen is low.

hdcolumbus

Um,

BleuM&M

I'd have a hard time getting used to the steering wheel on the passenger side. Before April I posted that I'd NEVER get used to the beak on the TL, that Acura lost me as a TL customer, stating the TSX was the best of the litter, and a V6 option would make me a TSX buyer.

Other than that, I disqualify myself since I now pilot a SH-AWD TL. I'm OK with the beak since I can't see it from the best position - driver seat.

csmeance

If I were in the market for a new TL (base/tech FWD), I'd take a serious look at the V6 TSX. I have an I4 one right now as a loaner, and honestly I like it quite a bit, maybe a little more than the 09 TL FWD Tech I had. The V6 TSX fully loaded has the same features as the TL except for the smart-key (not that big of an issue) and white LED lighting in the interior. If anything, it will be the faster than the TL out of the factory and with after-market support it will be far better than the TL. Yes interior materials are slightly cheaper in some respects, but it looks like the designs and durability of the materials in the new TSX surpass the TL.

In all honesty, the TSX has become the successor to the 3G TL, the 4G TL to the RL and the RL is just SOL.

alexSU

iTrader: (3)

Seems like Acura is taking the TSX into the right direction. If only they can do that with the TL and RL....

Ac Man

So you don't think Acura is going in the right direction with the TL? Are you serious? What's wrong with the TL? I can understand you saying that about the RL, but I think Acura did an outstanding job with the TL. Anyone who had a 3G TL will tell you that the 4G is WAY better, a ton of improvements. As for the TSX V6, I think someone would be a fool to go from a TL to a TSX V6.

SSFTSX

here is advantage of TSX V6 over FWD TL.
1. Japanese built
2. superior performance.
3. superior fuel economy
4. standard 18inch rim superior styling
5. smaller size for parking and handling.
6. superior refinement. (Active nosie cancellation).
7. better aeropackage that matches the car styling not.
8. possiblity of importing sport suspension/accessories/girll from overseas so better customization.

carconnection has done survey of all the magazine ratings. TSX 2009 got 8.8 points. the highest in Acura line up.

SSFTSX

for I4 6MT TSX is as good in performance as FWD TL auto atleast.
0-120 in 30 second. i am sure lighter rim/summer tires will close the gap.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...517bd990bc.pdf

3.7 TL Sh-AWD.

0-120 27 second.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...1b15b66cd1.pdf

Ac Man

Come on man, damn near everything you mentioned was a matter of personal taste and opinion. Unless you have spent time in them, and have driven both cars for yourself, you don't know for sure. Magazine ratings don't hold much weight to me, because there's a lot of politics involved.

winstrolvtec

Fact remains that the TL is positioned above the TSX and is more car for the money. To be fair, there are just as many reasons to by the TL regardless of one's individual listed tastes and preferences.

Babnik

I guess it's a matter of personal preference, but my problem with the 4G TL (I own a 3G) is that they took a sporty car and turned it into a luxobarge. A stock 04 TL only weighs 3400 lbs, that's less than the new TSX. That's why it goes 0-60 mph in under 6 seconds and gets 33 mpg.

While the 3G and 4G are both good cars, they just don't appeal to the same type of buyers. The type of buyer that would've liked the 3G would be more likely to buy the TSX V6 than a 4G.

I guess it depends on whether you put sportiness before luxury or the other way around. Me, I prefer sportiness over luxury so I wouldn't buy a 4G. My next car will probably be a base model bmw 335 6MT.

Babnik

Yes, I actually think the TL needs to be more expensive than it is now.

SSFTSX

I have presented all the objective criterias in which TSX is better than TL.

TL has better navigation system/upscale interior but thats all about it.
Another possibility is buy non tech package TSX and import Honda HDD system that can easily be installed.
you can always upgrade TSX with sport suspension(there is separate suspension between 6MT/AT)/summer performance tires/aero package/sport seats.

Ac Man

^^^^
Now how do you know that you can EASILY install an imported Honda HDD into a '09-'10 TSX? From what I know, nobody has tried this sucessfully. By the way, you don't need to import ANYTHING with a TL. You keep talking about all these add ons for the TSX, which just further hammers home the fact that the TSX is not a better car than the TL. Why spend all that money on suspension and HDD, etc. when you can just buy a TL? If size is the main issue, then I can't argue with that. But I'm 6'2, and the TSX was not an option for me. I had one last week while while I was getting my car checked out, and I couldn't wait to get back in my TL. The ELS in the TL blows the TSX's completely away, and don't get me started on the ride and handling.

Ac Man

I'm calling bullshit on this, because the TSX came out before the TL, and shortly after the TL came out the TSX V6 was announced. So those who bought FWD TL's instead of waiting for the TSX V6 are fools. Since size, quickness and fuel economy are most important to these individuals, then why on earth would you buy a TL?

SSFTSX

You have $43K SH-AWD fair enough.
but if some one buys $35K TSX V6 non-tech and put $8k worth of special rims/aeropackagage/sport suspension/sport seats/lights
you can sell the 18inch rims/tires to dealer for $1000~$1500. so it is actually
$33K plus $7k worth of adds on. including special Audio/Navigation etc.
The ending cars would be faster/more fuel efficient/ very unique in appearance, customized and handling.
so which one is better decsion? and also consider the resale value of such special car.

TSX is 100% same as EuroAccord.
http://www.honda-access.com/268/en/intro.jsp
Honda’s Solid State Drive (SSD) Navigation System
With no soldering or wire-cutting required, dealers will appreciate the fast and easy-fitting characteristics of Honda’s SSD Navigation System. Customers, meanwhile, will enjoy the wide variety of functions and its great blend of versatility and value


and also Honda spirior type S has started manufacturing in China. so expect further accessories.

winstrolvtec

The reasons to buy a TL are the same as buying a 5 series over a 3 or other mid over it's compact. Sportiness may be an advantage in the TSX over the TL FWD but nowhere near the SH, which is the sport distinctive model for the TL.

The better car is still the TL in the eyes of the people who make it, as already mentioned the TL is positioned above the TSX and one is a true Acura product the other a rebadged Honda.

$40-$43k for a TSX V6 customized is a waste when compared to what you can get an SH for, about $37k-$39k. Not even considering the upcoming 6MT. The comparison between both FWD models is a good one but when you bring the SH in it's not by any means. Uniqueness in appearance holds no actual dollar value and resale for a modified car is much lower than most would expect. You will be lucky if you get back half of what is put in and it still wont be close to the dollar for dollar resale of an SH and will probably only equal that of the FWD version.

SSFTSX

The refinement/interior space/weight/aerodynamic efficiency.difference between 3 and 5 series is there for similar optioned cars.

funny thing is 6MT TSX got 68dba on Car&Driver test. which is much lower than 71 dba of 5speed Auto TL-SH-AWD. You cannot go against consensus decision of All magazine tests. It is right there on carconnection with 8.8 score. TL is at 7.8
TSX is cleary more refined, having same weight and can still pull 0.85g on all season tires. Sport suspension/performance tires will close the gap in handling and it will beat any TL in straight line performance despite having similar weight and larger wheels than FWD TL.
I doubt 6MT will be discounted that much as they are not producing in quantity. if it is discounted from beginning. so it will clearly effect its resale value. we have only $2k discounts on TSX but $4 to $5k discounts on TL.
better i idea is to buy non-tech TSX V6 and customize it according to choice even better aftermarket brakes. why should some one drive a car that look like all others?

winstrolvtec

DBA does not necessarily reflect a greater level of refinement. Just because it's lower does not mean it is more refined and sound proofed and just because something is more sound proofed does not make it more refined. The TL has a larger everything when compared to a 6MT TSX. From engine to body panels, rims, tires, SH-AWD and all it's mechanical parts. So when considering all that and more it's easy to see why the DBA result is what it is and I am sure they were not done at the same time under the same conditions, so it's worth nothing.

So we need a consensus to tell us what to buy? Every post on this board has gone against that consensus so what exactly does that tell you? Different consensus have different results, but on a larger scale the TL would win.

The V6 TSX is quite capable against the FWD TL but it's needs more to match the SH. Sure with suspension and tires it could pull a similar skidpad but it will be inferior dynamically and it's still modified. Apply the same mods to the SH and the winner is?

A discount does not affect resale. A better buying value is a better selling value, and the better value is the TL in the automotive sales world. It's a bigger mid sized, offering more comfort and refinement and that alone goes for thousands of premium dollars charged in the automotive industry, no contest. My TLS is good for 75% value retention and is 3 years old and I bought it at invoice, no resale affect whatsoever, it's all about the market for the car at the time and no one can predict the future. The fact still remains that there is greater return on an actual vehicle purchase price vs a cheaper vehicle but equal with it's mods.

Funny part is you will probably pay more for a V6 TSX than a FWD TL, I rather use that money to customize the TL, but everyone is free to do what they like.

SSFTSX

Edmunds/C&D/Road&track and host of international magazines used dba numbers. It is the measurement of noise not comfort. but comfort depends on tires/suspension/wheel base. so comfort can be tweaked to certain extent.
how it will win. SH-AWD equiped car has larger maintiance/larger fuel bill/harsher rid. why would some one need it as second hand.
SH-AWD is already expensive. you cannot make it more expensive with mods and mods are not available to extent of TSX. look at different firms from Mugen to Modula.
you havent proved yet that TL has more comfort when its noise levels are already at bothersome levels. now what is resale value of 3 years old unmodified TSX?. It is atleast 67%. remember TLS sales were far less than standard TSX. and TLS was far upgraded than TSX. what will be a special modified TSX value be?
you cannot have the extent of aftermarkets parts like TSX. look at Japanes Honda side. I will even buy the head light washer system with bumpers.

winstrolvtec

Never said it had anything to do with comfort. Tires, wheels, suspension, and engine, etc, all affect the DBA results.

The consensus here is the FWD TL is already a better option for less money than a TSX V6 and a high percentage of others would agree.

Your taste in cars is similar to a teenager, most adult minded individuals want what the TL has to offer. There is no more maintenance involved in the short term aspect but even if it applies later it's well worth worth it for a more sport and weather capable vehicle with a refined sport ride and if you step up to an Acura engine and not a Honda 4 you get power and with that comes less mileage like anything else, in all honesty if that is a major priority than maybe you should not be considering a luxury brand. For what it's worth 6MT SH mpg will probably be the same as the TSX V6 AT. Your question of why would anyone consider it for second hand comes from a place of you personally not considering the vehicle first hand and if you see by the amount of people who have bought the FWD TL and the amount sold over the TSX V6 you know your tastes or your wallet is the thing that should be in question.

A TSX V6 discounts for about $37k and so can the SH, the FWD TL can be had for less than a TSX V6. If you put $8k into the TSX, it will cost you more money than both and not be as capable in aspects of either. You cannot finance or lease those parts into the car and you wont get half of that back, so it is a poor financial desicion if expense is a concern in the first place.

DBA has nothing to do with comfort unless you are the only indidviual in the world who drives in silence. The truth is no one can tell the difference in a few decibals anyway and if you are putting tires rims and suspension plus other mods into a TSX you are no longer getting the same ride or that "published" DBA, it would be the same as the TL at best. The TL has a more refined ride and cabin, much more spacious overall and larger more cushy and comfortable seats. A special modified TSX has no value because it is considered excessive modification and will be worth more to a dealer in stock form. You have almost a zero percent chance of getting more money for what it's actually worth with or without mods. So to answer your question the TL SH will be a better second hand car because no one wants to pay extra for your mods or more money for a TSX than a used TL SH for what you will need to charge to make your money back, the mods are worthless to everyone but yourself. SH sales are just as rare as TLS sales and it's more upgraded than the TLS therefore any TSX, but my point was that a discounted price has nothing to do with it's resale market.

You cannot have the extent of functionality in an SH even with $8k worth of mods in TSX. Mods are still mods, no matter how much or little the availability is. Take the mod money and buy a better more capable car from the start, if you don't like the TL there are plenty of other options otherwise you will be just throwing money away.

Truth is the TSX V6 is a nice car but it's only marketing prop vehicle for Acura to get more recognition for the TL in the mid segment. That will also allow TSX V6 shoppers to see the value in a base TL and it is successfully working to get them to upgrade. Honda knows where their cars place is and so should you. Compare the TSX to other entry compacts not same brand mid sized, different cars on different missions.

bagbklyn

I think some of the poster and even the original poster is missing the point of the TSX v6. Its not to go for the same market share as the TL. Its going after the customers that would cross hop the A4, lower end 3 series and the IS. Many wouldn't even look the the TSX way because it didn't have a v6 option like the others. Many here got the TL because at the end of the day when it comes to cabin room, the IS, A$, and 3 series can't compare to the TL. So asking if someone in a TL forum would trade there car in for a v6 TSX is highly unlikely on cabin space alone. It owuld be like look honey I shrunk the car.

SSFTSX

Again suspension/mods/ have nothing to with dba. It is moree related to aerodynamic shape/quality of materials/engine dampening/Active noise cancellation.


V6 TSX achieves 66dba. I4 is even lower than that.


TL FWD V6 is 69 dba.
why so much difference? both cars have similar weights/engine and one is on 18inch all season tires.(Which are quite heavy).

There is not even a single magazine test in which TL achieves lesser dba than TSX. They car is simply not designed for it.
I prefer aftermarket Audio/navigation systems. Tech package is simply too expensive. and aftermarket are constantly upgraded even from Honda.






I can say that with confident that with sport suspension/summer performance tires. TSX can achieve 68mph slolam run of TL SH-AWD as it is already at 65mph on all season 18inch.


1G TSX holds value better than TL. I am pretty sure 2G TSX will be even better. Acura is all about value. Specially built TSX with all mods is much better investment than plain vanilla FWD TL.

4G Express

zzzzzzz

Mattgtp

I drove the tsx I4 tech back to back with the 4G fwd and awd and I gotta say that the TL wins hands down. You are paying for prestige with Acura and the tsx just doesn't feel like a luxury car. It isn't bad on the inside I like the layout but it feels cheap compared to the TL and in my mind for 41 grand what the tsx I4 tech is up here it doesn't have nearly enough power. I had one as a loaner and you have to really wind it up to get power to move the heavy car and that just kills the gas mileage. Sure the V6 will help this but for the premium Acura wants for it give me a break. I decided to hold out on a new car for 1 more year but the tsx wont be on my shopping list again and the 4g awd will

winstrolvtec

LOL

The DBA difference between the TSX and TL is the extra tire the TSX rides on being one size larger profile, there is your DBA difference, otherwise they are the same and considering the TL is larger it should be less aerodynamic and have a worse DBA result, plus they use a lot of the same materials and build. So it's not because of superior refinement, everybody and their mother knows the TL is more refined. Your DBA argument would make a case when compared against a similar sized vehicle maybe one in the same class also with a similar engine displacement. I promise you that nobody actually cares about DBA anyway, ya I know but it makes the TSX look better "on paper".

Yes maybe but you do realize the slalom is more of a safety maneuver and does not translate to real world turning and handling. You are undermining SH AWD and it's torque vectoring capabilities. The TLS was the best handling FWD probably ever and no one misses it since they got their SH.

Ya right, when the TSX will cost more from the start, keep dreaming my man. It might be a better investment for you individually but not a smarter financial one. In the real automotive world not magazine and internet land the mid sized category commands thousands of premium dollars more than the entry compact, just look around, so when the TSX V6 model is priced the same as the base V6 TL it's very easy to see where the value and real bargain is coming from and where you will get a better return on the dollar.

SSFTSX

DBA number is most important. why all serious road tests publish it? and I4 has smaller tire than V6 TSX but I4 has lower DBA. TL is not more refined. It does not have more sophisticated suspension. It is just using more upscale interior. which you can upgrade TSX with wood grain interior. why Motortrend gve more points to TSX in interior than TL?. You simply have no answer to all the experts opinion.

so what other purpose is for handling than Safety maneuver. the ability to control the car in turns. why u need that heavy/inefficient AWD setup.


FWD TL is not competitor to TSX. It is the TL-SH-AWD and in comparison to TL-SHAWD. TSX is good value. Its handling can be upgraded to top of the line and its price is reflection of its ability.

DeMAN

The TSX when fully loaded is only 30 lighter than the TL yet its 10" shorter (according to Acura website)