Cecilt

These are both on my list to replace my '06 TL 6 speed. Pricing the new Audi a4 quattro 2.0t is just a hair over $40k. This price has the premium plus, navigation and 18" sport package. Almost everything the TL SH-AWD will have except push button start. Head room is bigger in the a4, trunk size is way bigger but shoulder room is less. The 2.0t has a whopping 256 lbs of torque beginning at 1500 rpm. Reviewers say the 3.2 v-6 is not worth it and the 4 cylinder is equally as quick (0-60 in 6.7 seconds). I think the A4 in pics looks great. For more than $2k less than the TL SH-AWD I find the Audi on paper to be a better deal. Test driving may reveal a different story. Anyone driven both. THanks

TLDeac

I drove both, and really liked the Audi. The 2.0T is a great engine, and the car drives very nice. Honestly, they are both great cars, but in the end, I went with the FWD TL, since AWD is not a requirement here, and the FWD TL handles very well for a FWD car.

Also, the Audi dealers didn't ever have enough stock with the colors and options I wanted, and honestly, they are kinda stuck up around here!

I don't think you can go wrong with either vehicle!

Rocketsfan

I love the Audi styling - it's one of the sexiest cars out there (the A5 as well) for that price. The only things I don't like about it are the interior styling and Audi's historical reliability. The interior on German cars looks dated/boring to me (just a personal opinion). That being said, it's really a nice looking car.

PetesTL

I test drove the 2.0T and 3.2 A4 several times before getting my TL. These cars were on my short, short list. I really liked the style of the new A4's and the way they're put together. What I didn't like was the high prices on the option packages. To get the B&O upgraded sound system, LED running lights, keyless start, heated seats, NAV, and 18" wheels, you have to spend just over $45K (Prestige Package & NAV). If you want the neat "Drive Select" package (adjustable steering, shocks, etc), that's another $3500. The cars drove very, very well.....ride was smooth, power was decent.....overall performance was very good but not exceptional. For the price of the TL Tech ($39K), you cannot get an A4 that is eqippped similary (a base A4 has absolutely NOTHING). The car that I'm really looking forward to in a couple years is the upcoming S4 with the new supercharged V6 engine, and 6 sp DSG.

S2000 Driver

Their reliability record is abysmal.

smsTL

iTrader: (1)

I don't what you guys see in Audi. The styling never seems to attract me to begin with. Only thing i like about Audi is the lighting on the front. Not to mention they are VolksWagen.

Cecilt

Pete, thanks for sharing but your numbers with options are not spot on. The Premium Plus package has LED running lights and heated seats. It does not have the B&O and keyless start as you mention. You can get 18" wheels by adding the sport package which gives you sport seats, sport suspension, paddle shifters and maybe one other do dad. Therefore, as my original post suggests you can be at $40,100 for an A4 with quattro, nav, premium plus and 18" sport package. I'm not an adiophile. If its sounds good and is loud I'm good with that. I woud assume the stock system woud meet my needs. I do agree with keyless start. I woud want that but you do need the Prestige package and that throws in other options I don't feel are necessary and jumps the price another $3k. Check out the features in the premium plus. I think you will agree it compares very favorably to the TL at a better price than the SH-AWD.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Do you think you will miss the top end power? I mean, 211hp and 256lbft clearly shows that the engine has a lot of low-end torque like you said, but the torque drops considerably at higher rpm. The TL on the other hand would make a bit more torque overall, but the extra weight probably offsets that. When you rev it up though, it will keep pulling and the torque doesn't drop off.

Since you quoted 0-60mph time, I'd assume high end power is important to you. For comparison, C&D also got 6.7s in the TSX 6MT. Of course, it doesn't feel as quick as the A4 2.0T. The TL on the other hand, should hit 0-60mph in 6s flat for the 5AT model.

Actually, I'm not sure what is more important to you, low end torque of high end power? With the TL SH-AWD, the low end should be comparable to the 2.0T, and the high end will shame the A4 for sure. The TSX on the other hand is as fast as the A4 on the straight, but in city driving I believe it "feels" slower because of less torque. Also, is AWD a must-have for you? If not, and assuming torque is very important, perhaps the upcoming TSX diesel is another candidate? It will also have much better fuel economy.

TL|GTX

The new a4 looks fucking amazing, looks like an exotic. And if u want more higher end torque get the v-6 3.2L. It has more hp but less low end torque but still manages to get faster 0-60.

stevesTL

I drove the A4 at the WV Summit Motorsports at an Audi drive event. We did a comparison with the IS, 300, 328. They also let you take it on the track in groups of 5 @135MPH. It was an incredible thrill. These were loaded up A4's with a sticker price of 48k, as best I could figure out. Of course most of us will never have a place to drive our cars like that, but it did give you an idea of the impressive capability. After I got home I went to the Audi web site and calculated that if I wanted the 3.2 A4 it would cost about 43k, or 40k for the 2.0 fairly well equipped. That would include the Nav., but it would still be lacking push button start and some other features included on the 09TL such the upgrade radio. It seems about 3k overpriced to me.

I did drive the TL too, but not on the track. I thought it handled very well. It would be fun to go to an event where you can compare the Acura to other cars, but I haven't heard of Acura holding such events. My salesman on my TL test drive said the sales staff attended such an event and that the TL did very well against the competiton. He was impressed.

My 2 Acura's are really reliable, and I don't know about Audi. I think consumer reports gives it a decent review.

Cecilt

Did you drive the 2.0t, the 3.2 or both? Can you compare/contrast how they compared against each other. The reviewers all favor the 2.0t for its torque, fuel economy and no sluggishness off the line. I agree the 2.0t loaded like a TL SH-AWD will be about $1500 less. No keyless start in the Audi, but has bi-zenon self leveling headlights, LED running lights, over 16 cu ft of trunk room, 6 disc cd changer, and basically everything else the TL has. In addition, to me the looks are 100% better and looks like a luxury car. I want to like the TL, keep showing my wife the car as well and she just walks away and says its a boat with bad exterior looks. I'm loyal to a fault which is why I would like to stay with the TL but with their price jump and looks I'm not easily convinced yet. Tough decisions out there right now.

I drove the Mazda 6 6speed manual 4 banger and the 3.7L v-6 auto grand touring models today. The 4 banger was noisy until you got it up to speed but still not bad. I liked the v-6's power. Fit and finish was pretty good but not on par with the TL. More features than 3g or 4G though for a whole lot less. No torque steer and handled very well. In tight times this is one no one should overlook IMO. highway noise was more, so some of these negatives might keep it off my list but not by far if it does slide off.

ostrich

It's funny that you are also cross-shopping these two cars. I am starting to look at new cars as I probably will be replacing my 04 TSX with a new car in late 2009. Anyway, I went down to the Acura dealership today and saw the new TL. It actually looks REALLY GOOD! The infamous grille actually looks so much better in real life. In fact, I love the styling now! A block away was the Audi dealership. I saw the 09 A4 sedan from a distance - it's a very beautiful car, but it just did not have the same road presence as the new TL. Also, it just looked too similar to the previous generation... that said, the Avant is still amazing looking.

I think that while the A4 2.0T w/ Premium Plus package will be priced similarly to the 09 TL SH-AWD. If you go with the navigation system too, I am not sure if the Audi system will be as advanced as the Acura one.

One thing that the Audi wins for sure though is gas mileage. However, when it comes to reliability, I am still not sure about Audi... and the resale value of Acura is typically better than that of Audi too.

PetesTL

Personally, no matter how good the A4 2.0T is, I just can't justify spending $40K+ for a 4-banger. To me, the only 4-banger worth over $30K is the one that's in the Lancer EVO MR........I test drove that car with the 6sp dual-clutch trans several weeks ago, and can testify that is one sweet, sweet motor.

Colin

Once upon a way back when, I would have taken a Lotus Turbo Esprit.

sebounet2005

I can't stand the awful engine noise of A4 2.0T AWD. After testing it , i drove my 2007 TL and thought i had a rocket in my hand compare to the A4. I'm talking a bout feeling, may be the figures on 0-60 mph are almost the same, but feeling is not the same. The A4 is almost boring

zeezz

it looks great, but after having two friends with horrible reliability problems on older a4's (over $5k in repairs), i'm a bit worried.

TL|GTX

The 3.2l still has more better 0-60 then the 2.0l! And about that comment some one said "same road presence as the new TL is an ugly fat looking car" The audi will never have that presence.

Cecilt

Are you talking about the 3.2 in the 3G TL or the 3.2 in the A4? The A4 3.2 might have 1/2 second better. The 3.2 in the 3G is 6.3 so barley 1/2 against the 2.0T.

Since I have not driven the 2.0T does the engine sound like a 4 cylinder trying to push the car up to speed. The 4 cylinder in the MAzda 6 I drove today was like this and I immediately knew it was not the right car for me. Does the A4 sound deaden engine noise if the 2.0t has this whine to it?

Pete, I understand the 4 cylinder/$40k deal to. However, if a 4 cyl. turbo can perform as well as a 6 cyl and get better gas mileage I just call that good technology and I am willing to pay for that.

For top end speed from another poster. ARe you referring to cruising at 75 mph on the interstate and wanting to pass a slower car but see someone coming up in the fast lane pretty quickly and the 2.0t will not have the balls to make the pass vs. the 3g or 4g TL. Just curious what you mean by top end. I'm not into going 100 mph but I spend enough time in that 5 to 55 mph zone that this is where I want to know I have something under the hood that will respond with confidence. Just looking for clarification on your comments. Thanks

cp3117

You need to go drive a 2.0T It has awesome power and you will be surprised at how it still pulls strong when you accelerate in fifth or sixth at 75 MPH. Trust me, you wont have any problem when it comes to confidence in passing and this is coming from a 2.0T owner....this engine has more than proven itself over the years.

http://www.ukipme.com/engineoftheyea...s_08/18_2.html

I wish they would bring the S3 version of the 2.0T here...It produces similar numbers to the Lancer Evo etc but with Audi luxury.

I cant say what the engine noise would be like though on the new A4...you will have to decide that one yourself.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

The 6.3s you quoted is for a 3G TL 5AT. The 6MT on the other hand can do 0-60 in 5.8s.

By top end, I mean, top end power - as in keep producing decent amount of torque at high rpm. I guess my point is that, when you are at say, 2000-4000rpm, both the A4 2.0T and the TL might feel the same in terms of power and torque. Once you go into higher rpm though, the TL is far superior, as suggested by its much higher hp number. What this means is that, if you are cruising at 75mph, and then you want to make a pass, for the 2.0T, whether you are in 5th gear or 3rd gear, the difference is not that big. But for the TL, the difference would be huge. That's because at say, 2000rpm (car travelling at 75mph or so), both engines make about 230lb of torque. When you shift down to 3rd gear, assuming both engines will rev to say, 5000rpm in 3rd gear, the 2.0T engine would be making far less than 256lbft of torque, say, may be 210lbft or so. But the TL at the same 5000rpm will be making even more torque than it did at 2000rpm, perhaps 250lbft. I hope I'm not being too confusing here.

cp3117

That was well put..... but there are other factors such as the gear ratios between the 5sp auto (TL) and 6sp auto (A4). The TL is also around 800 lbs heavier than the A4.

While i agree there would be a difference at higher RPM's i dont think the OP would notice a huge difference when it comes to passing...i have yet to see a Torque curve chart on the updated 2.0T but i hear it can keep a large majority of its torque still in the upper RPM ranges which is why its performance numbers are so good.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, for sure the gear ratios are different. As for the weight, the A4 2.0T Quattro is 3715lb. That's about 250lb lighter than the TL SH-AWD.

Yea, if you are passing without shifting down, I think the A4 might feel a tiny bit stronger. But when you shift down, it doesn't feel much stronger either. If you use the good old hp/torque/rpm equation, if you assume the torque (258lbft) can keep up all the way to 5000rpm, the hp at 5000rpm would be 245.6hp. Obviously the A4 2.0T isn't making 245hp, so there's no way it's making 258lbft of torque at 5000rpm. What does it make at 5000rpm then? Well, let's assume it makes 211hp at 5000rpm (I don't know the exact rpm it makes that hp), then the torque at 5000rpm is 221.6lbft. What about at 211hp at 6000rpm, how much torque would the engine be making at 6000rpm? 185lbft is the answer. What about the TL SH-AWD? It makes 273lbft of peak torque at 5000rpm, but what about when it's making its peak hp? It makes a maximum of 305hp at 6200rpm. So at 6200rpm, again applying the formula, it makes 258lbft of torque at 6200rpm. That's 73lbft more than the 2.0T engine at 6000rpm.

These are just some very crude calculations, but I think you get the idea right?

cp3117

You would think Audi would release its stats on their website...(unless i missed it this early in the morn) I have now seen weights tested by various articles showing its weight for the 2.0T anywhere from 3100lbs up to around 3800lbs

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=122888

mickey3c

I own an 07 A4 2.0T that has 45,000 miles on it.. The car has rock solid reliability. The 09 2.0T is a great improvement over the 07 with 25% more low end torque. The 07 has acheived 34 mpg combined highway and city driving as well. In 6th gear the A4 turns 2400 rpms at 73 mph.

The A4 2.0T rarely leaves the 3000 RPM range for normal driving and 4500 for more spirited driving. The engine set up is different and little reason to go all the way to redline. To really wake up the engine above 5000 you need to have a chip or a bigger turbo. Don't get me wrong its a great car and performs very well but it does not pull like the tl up to 6k and beyond.

The A4's traction control does not cut in until the very last second, something my G35 did not do which made me disengage it quite a bit. The TL was set up much better than the G35 for this as well. The A4 would only tell me when I was in trouble as soon as it happened.

The 3.2 A4 has greating inproved over the 07 3.2 and the 0-60 times reflect that. While I was not able to fully test that on the test drive with the salesman, it did feel better than the 07 3.2. The mags report a 5.7 0-60 time which is very respectable in this class and I think anyone could easily dash to 60 in about 6 seconds.

Interior quality and fit and finish has always been a german strong point. The 07 has no rattles at all (unlike my 3g TL which has had a few).

The transmission on the A4 is much better than the TL. Of course you have more gears in the A4 so power and shifting is very smooth. I did not notice any turbo lag on the 2.0 It was quite impressive since I owned a turbo from the 80s which took about 3k rpms before you could feel the boost. Of course you got a 2.0 so you do not have crazy torque off the line but it appears very fast.

As for stick vs auto. With 6 gears you can do a lot of rowing with smaller raitos. I have a standard but I can see why people would buy the automatic.

As for which to buy since the 05 3g's time has come... I am not sure.. Depends on a number of factors and since I live in the northeast, all wheel is great. Since gas prices are still high the 2.0T has its appeal as well. Oh yea don't forget the 90.00 oil changes at the dealer (but they say do it every 10K).

I did not notice what kind of rubber is on the new TL but I know the A4 has 235 45 17s continentals pro contact which is much more competent than the stock tires on the TL from 05!

As for costs... the insurance on my A4 is about 800 where the TL is 1000.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol 3100lb..that would be very impressive!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, that's the benefit of having that much torque at low rpm. And now the 2.0T has even more low end torque, I'd imagine it's even more fuel efficient.

The 09 base TL FWD has crappy turanza's (just saw the car in person yesterday). The SH-AWD model has better tires I believe. And the optional wheel/tire package has Michelin Pilot Sport S2's which helps the TL SH-AWD to pull 0.96g on the skidpad.

static808

Saw a new A4 2.0T on Saturday. My sister is looking to move from a 3G TL to A4. To me, the LED look up front is very lame. Audi is really trying to have a BMW type of front look. As in unique "audi-esque" light setup. It looks way too tacky for me on the A4, looks ok on the A5 and R8. Everything else looks like an upgrade (engine, leather, etc..).

BTW, you can't compare the TL to the A4. Different leagues now with the 4G. Price yes, but car content, engine and overall size....TSX is more comparable.

PetesTL

You really can't go wrong with either car. They both offer good performance, lots of features, good fuel economy, and value. That being said, if you don't need AWD, the TL Tech is a better value than the Audi and offers standard features that can't be had in the A4 for under $40K.

Cecilt

Why do you think the TL is not in the same class now? To me, and I own a TL is the TL is still on the outside looking in as it relates to a near luxury car sedan(mainly its front wheel drive layout). The 4G has bridged that gap and now the SH-AWD, IMO brings it into true comparisons to BMW's, Audi's, MB, Lexus etc. The interior space is not much bigger than an A4. In fact the A4 has more headroom, equal leg room but does give it up in shoulder room. The trunk is 16 cu ft on the A4 vs. 12.5 on the SH-AWD(this is huge when you want to go on trips). A4 has rain sensing wipers, the TL does not. The TL has hard drive nav over dvd on the A4. I love the LED lights. Clearly sets it apart and not cheesy at all.

static808

Audi's are nice cars and the A4 is a solid, good looking car. Difference between a TSX, TL is minimal just as in A4, A6 or 3series and 5 series. Its really more about shelling out the extra $$ for a car that's out of the entry-level class (TSX, A4, 3 Series, C Class, IS)

Regarding FWD, Audi has either FWD or AWD. Acura is FWD or SH-AWD. So in your comparison Audi has always been near luxury anyway due to FWD just like Acura.

I don't believe Acura has been on the outside looking in per say. They sell more cars here (US/Canada) than Audi. Audi is global while Acura is "pending" the global expansion. Its all relative, just like the LED-look on the Audi's

To me, I'd buy a 4G TL with the beak then a A4 or A6 with the LED's, but that's all personal preference.

cp3117

Yea i thought the same...Everyone including Audi says the new A4 is 10% lighter than the previous model, which puts it in the low 3K range so i guess we will have to wait and see.

cp3117

Like you say, looks are subjective. I dont think Audi is trying to copy BMW, if anything i think they have created their own look and this can be seen how they went with the large grill a few years ago. They went back in time for the "retro" look to their racing days in the early 1900's.....or at least this is what they said when they first introduced the large grill look.

As far as the TL being in a different league. I think Acura has finally produced a car that can compete with the A4 and that they are finally very comparable. especially when you compare size, price, value, equip, drivetrain etc.

The TSX is comparable to the VW GLI/2.0T in all the same areas and most automotive journalists always compare the two. I havent seen any comparisons with the 2G TSX to the GLI but I know the GLI always outperformed the 1G TSX in most areas.

When comparing Acura to VW/Audi it seems to be:

TSX=GLI
TL=A4
RL=A6

and Acura currently has nothing to compare to the A8, R8 or S/RS models, TT etc etc.

mickey3c

I think the point people are making here is that they want to choose from 2 premiums car makers in the mid 30s to low 40s. The A4 and TL are different cars. There is comparing car models and advantages / disadvantages and then there is saying that something is comparable to another model.

The cars are different but the pricing is comparable since you can get a 2.0T for mid 30s and if you get the 3.2 v6 you are in the 40s. That's a lot of cake! But same for acura.

Lots of car makers are also putting on 18 or 19 inch tires. For those of you running anything bigger than a 17 inch tire, you know what new shoes cost and the choices you might not have for winter tires. If you are running 18s or 19s you might have great handling, however you might not get more than 2k out of them before you are tossing 300 bucks a tire for new rubber. Same for brakes. We have seen that some brake shoes have to be replaced at 25k and some last much longer.

Warranties are comparable.

Service - I have not had great service from either acura of peabody or audi of danvers/peabody. They have both damaged my car during service and while it is not the fault of the management or service writers, it has happened and leaves me with a poor impression of their service. I will say that the 10k check ups in the audi have not been more than 190 bucks.

Recalls - Both models have had them and they have been minor in nature. However when I went to the audi place for service they told me there were two recalls that would take 2 additional hours to perform. I asked why was I not notified and they said well they were not safety related. Hmmm sure!!! If for some reason I broke down as a result on the middle of interstate 95 isn't that a safety issue or what if I did not service my car at a dealership and never got the replacement parts...

Model year - This is a redesign for acura and not for the A4. In defense of acura the engine and transmission has been around for some time now and they should have worked out any isses with the 5 speed auto. The new body style could have some issues. The A4 style has been around for a few years and some may say it is understated, has slight mods over the older models (lights, grille, trunk lip) etc.

Performance - while I was not able to really see where all the performance was in etiher model... I do know that acura has max torque of 254 at 5000 rpms and max hp at 6200, where the 2.0T has it at the low end (258 torque at 1500) and maxes out around 5300 (211 hp). So what is the extra 1500 to redline for!!!? You won't know that you are driving a 4 cyl in the 6 speed automatic.

milk man

it seems like you like the audi a4 more... and seems like you have already made up your mind

TL|GTX

Doesn't the nsx compete with the rs4? The new nsx coming out in 2011 or 2012 will compete with r8 maybe?

Cecilt

Not at all, just asking for opinions and trying to state facts as my research indicates. Sometimes posts will say something totally untrue about a model in question and most might not look into it. If I'm in the post i will try to point this out so misconceptions don't arise. BTW, drove a 335i today. Sweeeetttt!!!

007Acura

hard drive nav is better than dvd

1. Faster
2. Easy to update

Cecilt

Agreed. I figured most would know this I just listed it as a difference. Nav to me is more aesthetics and using it to show radio stations. To me they almost always improve the looks but I don't use mine too much. Maybe b/c I don't live in a major metropolitan area but a tom tom would suit me fine.

stevesTL

When I got home I called my Audi dealer for a test drive of the 2.0t. It is fast and very responsive but the turbo lag annoyed the heck out of me. I would feel I was downgrading if I were to buy a 2.0t. The 3.2 is too expensive. I want all the features the TL offers, and 40K is enough to spend on a car.....for me anyway.

Type34

At least here in SoCal, many Audi dealerships are teamed with VW dealerships. I owned a 2001 Jetta VR6 GLX and unfortunately had numerous occasions in which I visited Audi/VW dealers (my wonderful VeeDub left me stranded on the freeway 3x in the 1st 2 years of ownership)...needless to say, I sold it in 2003 to get my TL-S.

Anyway, Audi/VW service was the worst I've ever experienced (I've owned Chevys and Fords mind you). An example: I had my Jetta in for brake service and they returned the car with no center VW caps on my wheels. I asked the service advisor where my caps went and he said I brought the car in with no center caps...WTF?? He told me I was lying and that I'd have to take it to the manager. The manager said he believed his advisor and that I'd have to contact the owner of the dealership (it was almost as though these guys were in cahoots on stealing things, it was weird). I contacted the owner and never heard back...I ended up buying replacement caps on eBay and vowing to light the dealership on fire...


Not learning my lesson, prior to buying our '08 TSX we looked at the A4 2.0T cabriolet w/ S-line (we had a bug up our arse for a convertible). After the test drive, the young salesman actually begged us to buy the car 'cuz he needed a sale and was throwing out so much misinformation it was embarrasing. I couldn't wait to get off the lot.

One of my best friends is now experiencing the same horror with his Audi Q7. The service is awful (his experience is worse considering his wife has been getting the run-around)...I told him not to buy Audi, now he's paying...not sure what you guys have experienced, but he nor I will ever own another Audi/VW product again.