KeithL

I took a 4G out for about an hour and over 40 miles today. It was a TECH model. The car I drove already had 330 miles on it.

OK I am a little nuts, I have owned 5 3G TL's and currenlty have a 08 Type-S so the bar is high. My initial reaction to the 4G in pictures was nasua!! I have no doubt they will sell a ton of these, since many are not as picky about the desogn, but they will also loose some Acura faithful, time will tell how successful this design is.

In person the design is not as bad, but it is somewhat polarizing. It is VERY different. The car looks like it has a bit of a beak and the high fender lines and concave hood are again different. The back does look like it has a big booty and again a different design. Time will tell how this design ages, some may want to compare this departure to the somehting liek the CTS when it debuted, but to me a CTS has a consistent style from front to back and the 4G TL seems liek it was designed in sections. The amount of chrome on the car is a bit too much for my taste. I know they feel the chrome roof joints look better than black, but to me, body color is the way to go. Also the car needs 18 inch slightly lower sidewall tires. The 17's ont he 3G look perfect size compared to wheel well and body, ont he 4G is looks off.

OK enough of the exterior and to the interior. OK the interior to me is more appeallng, but I much prefer the 3G Type-S gauges over the 4G. The back lighting of the 4G guages does not seem as smooth and uniform as the 3G. Als the MID are while a higher resolution is smaller. The NAVI screen is awesome, the resolution and clarity is superb! My only complaint with is the plastic screen covering the navi shoudl be closer to the actual LCD screen and less angled, it does seem to glare and distory the navi at certain light angles. The ELS is a nice step up, more power, but again as you get over half way up the power band the bottom end falls out. It a 3G this happened around 24-26 on the volume, on the 4G it happens aroudn 30-32. I think the ELS is probably a tad clearly than the SOW in the G35, but the G35 delivers better through its power band, and then the Lexicon in the Genesis is better than either of them. The center instrument pod is wel the single downfall of the interior. The hugh mutlti-function knob and array of confusing and clutter mess of buttons cheapens what is otherwise a nice interior. The voice activated comamnds seems better at recognizing commands than the 3G and the responsiveness of the navi and voice system blows away the 3G and is better than that in the G35. TThe drivers seat is close to the Type-S seat, very comfortable and supportive. The grade of leather in the 4G is a obvisou step up over the 3G, but I already noticed seat issues in the 4G on the showroom, the driver left bolsters was all malformed and creasing already. The steering wheel is a hugh improvment, the thickness, slight decrease in diameter and the overall feel and leather are awesome. The buttons on the wheel are logical and well laid out, far better than the G35 and a tad better than the 3G. Also closing the doors made some sort of rattle clatter sound, typical of what I come to expect from American cars, but not Asian cars, I expect that soft thump when I close the door. The trunk is big and expansive, but not flat which may be an issue for some. Also the lift over is a few inches higher thana 3G. One nice thing os the delck lid stays put whereever you leave it through its opening swing.

OK to where it matters.. the ride. If you come for a base or navi 3G this si a great step up, slightly better rider with good control, a tad bit over sensitive steering, but well controlled and maintined ride. It is softer and more numb than a Type-S. Also while the same size engine the 4G did nto seem to launch as well as my Type-S, may be the extra weight or ECU timing or something else. The ride was very nice, the car rode nice, but yet handled well and provided decent feedback. The electric steering is not as numb as the 09 TSX, but not as firm as the 3G. Within a few minutes I felt right at home in the 4G TL, the car behaved as I expected and rode as I expected from an Acura. The car is a bit more quiet inside than a 3G, which is one are the TL excels over a G35, G35 is far more noisy inside.

I could easily come to enjoy the interior (less the button and that knob) and ride of this car, but in the end the exterior just does not do it for me. It may grow on me over time, BUT I want to love the car I buy and the 4G for me si a mix of great improvemsnets and styling let downs. Maybe the mid-life MMC will see some improvements to win me back, but I don' see my next car being a 4G. Looking at a 3G next to a 4G in the dealer lot will have many saying the 3G is dated, but it is still a stylish and awesome car, the best I have ever owned!!

bmaczo6

iTrader: (1)

No need to be modest, with 5 3G TL's, I would say "little" might not be the right adjective.

I thought the car looked much worse in person.

It appeared ugly in pictures but I was not prepared for how really ugly it is in person. Side by Side with a 3G there is no doubt as to which is the better looking car. I would not be surprised if this design is short lived as I do not think it will be very well received. It reminds me of the Subaru front grill redesign from a few years ago that only lasted 2 years.

xenonhid

I think you pretty much summed it up for the rest of us too by your response of:

"Mix of great improvements and Styling Let downs."

reddogTL

good write up Keith.. I have yet to see the new TL in person.. i thought it looked hideous in pictures when i first saw it... its very slowly growing on me but as of right now, it hasnt grown on me enough for me to actually want one.. seeing it in person might change my mind but we'll see... i took my 07 TL in for the power steering recall the other day and took an 08 TSX as a loaner.. i asked if they had the 09 TSX as a loaner yet and they said no but i never drove a TSX before and wanted to see how much smaller it is.. unless the new 09 TSX has a big improvement over interior space i dont think thats going to cut it for me.. im a big guy and the TSX felt too cramped

i am curious though as to why you have had five TL's?? couldnt make up your mind? had problems with them? were they all bought or were some of them leased? just curious..

KeithL

The 04 I had the longest, then decdided I wanted navi. The 06 I was stpid I had it 8 months then gas shot up the first timeand I dumped it, got a Camry Hybrid. Great on gas, but was dull and boring to drive, after 5 months I went back to an 07 TL. 8 months later I thought wanted a G35 so I sold the 07 and was going to get a G35, but drove a Type-S and feel in love. Had that Type-S 8 months and was kind of bored driving essentially the same body style for 4 years and still was yearning a G35, also my Type-S had a bunch of small monot assmbly issues, head liner that woudl never stay put, some various squeaks and rattles, mis-aligned trunk, etc. I sold the Type-S and went to drive a G35 and kept missing the Type-S, so went back and got a new Type-S for actually the same I just sold my first one for (they had a $2K rebate on top of selling it for invoice). I love my current Type-S still have a yearn to try a G35/G37 sedan, as I still get a tad bored since I have essentially been driving this car for 4 years, it is a shame they really didn't change up the center stack or sotmhing in 07 to make this feel more fresh. I have never lost more than $100-$200 on any of these transactions, the great thing about the 3G si the resale has always been great!! I buy them at great deals then can usually sell them to people within a year. So many people don;t research and know what they can really pay for the car, they think Acura does NOT negotiate so when I sell them a 6-12 month old car at $3-$5K below MSRP they think they are getting a great deal. Plus in GA on a private sale there is NO sales tax, so they can save a few grand easily.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Keith,

Do you feel like you've got the car you want now or will you possibly trade the '08 Type S sometime soon?

KeithL

One never knows, I love driving my Type-S, but as I have said, I have essenetially been driving the same body sytle now for 4.5 years! I drive other cars, really have an itch for a G35, but the Type-S ride is so damn good! The 3G ELS is getting old for me, it is weak and the XM is very muddy compared to just about everything els eI have tested. The few squeaks and rattles get on my nerves every so often and they still in 5 years and every TL I have owned fail to be able to quiet the back deck under moderate bass. But the Type-S seats are so great and the ride so good and this car still returns respectable MPG. I woudl porbaly jump to a G35 if not for the horror stories of those owners complaining of such horrible MPG. Also the G35, while I liek the interior better, is a bit cramped and does not ride as good as the Type-S. The TL is also quieter inside on the road, the G has much more road noise. I have had the itch for some time to try someothing else, but the Type-S is an addiction.

PetesTL

Just curious, Keith, how "fast" does your Type-S feel compared to your reg. TL?

KeithL

I never push my cars that hard. The Type-S feels a bit quicker off the line than the base TL and the tranny seems smoother. The overall drive train feels a bit smoother and more refined, nothing dramatic, and the steering feels a tad more precise. The Type-S just feels liek it spools up a little better and quicker. My best guess is the 4G TL feels liek the 3G base TL to me int he acceleration and quickness area. Ont he Test drive I did a few quick launches form the line and then when I got back in my Type-S I did the same thing and the torque seemed to come on stronger int he Type-S. Could be the 4G is a bit heavier, or they time things differently.

PetesTL

Interesting......to me, my '09 TL feels quite a bit quicker than my previous '04 TL......throttle response is more immediate, down shifts come sooner, and passing power is a lot stronger. (I had the car for a while now so maybe it has adapted better to my driving style.....it's definatey quicker than when I first test-drove it).

KeithL

Well it has been a whle since I drove a base TL, but it did not seem as quick as my Type-S. Again it may be in pure 0-60. but the torque feel that presses you back in the seat sure did not feel as good as my Type-S. Also since the demo had 330 miles on it I suspect the ECU learned some lame responses from the various test drives.

2004 TL

I still have my 04 TL with 119k because I just love it. I have been thinking about getting the 09 TL-SHAWD based upon weather conditions in my area. A friend of mine was able to set up a test drive of the AWD version with the Tech package at a closed track in Monticello, NY that he is a member of. They recently had the M5 and the CTS-V there which you can easily find on you tube. Several people along with me flogged this test car for hours, and we were all supprised that the brakes never faded, the balance was remarkable, and the grip was shockingly good. Now I took my 04 with me which has been modified a bit, and because it is lighter, but hampered by FWD, it was obviously slower than the 09. I strapped my G-Meter on board and did a back to back run. No weather corrections were done, but since they were completed within 20 minutes of each other, I think they will depict interesting information. Here are the details:
04 TL: 0-60 5.66 sec, 1/4 mile 13.99 @ 101.22 mph, .92 lateral gs (ave).
09 TL-SHAWD: 0-60 5.33 sec, 1/4 mile 13.68 @ 103.36 mph, .96 lateral gs (ave).

Both cars had about 1/2 tank of gas so the weight was not bias.

I have read some comments that the car looks aweful, but I think it is simply personal taste. You can be sure that Acura test marketed the design very well before they would risk messing with their most important model's sales success. I think they will sell a ton of them.

As far as my getting the new one, I am on the fence. I want to see how the 09 G37 sedan with the increased hp and 7 speed trans drives. I also was considering the IS350. I drove the ISF and although the car was simply fantastic, I feared the winter would have that car parked, and I can't drive my vette in anything but perfect weather since that is modified by Lingenfelter with all the trimmings.

I hope my comments are helpful to someone out there in cyberland.

KeithL

I'm sure somone at Pontiac said that about the Aztek as well!

Costco

Enough with all the people saying "it will look better in person" and "pictures don't do it justice." Yeah, cars can look better in person, but they can also look WORSE.

gurneyeagle

Great thread Keith!

Honest, open and informative. I love the story of how you ended up with so many cars in so few years. I need to show this thread to my wife to prove there are others out there "like me'.

erick3

aren't the shifts freaking CRISP? flawless...

Oswald Vater

I saw the 09 this past Monday when I took my 08 in for a warranty issue (battery). I must admit that I was not "as much" turned off by it in person as I was by the pictures. The front beak is huge but I could live with it. The car seems to be put together well, at least the ones I looked at. Some nice interior upgrades like LED lighting and the trunk/gas lid switch on the door panel. Price-wise, 3k more than the 08/Nav sticker for the "Tech" version is too hefty an increase in my book. I didn't drive one so I can't compare the ride or handling. But as many have already said, the car just didn't give me the same level of excitement as when I first saw the 3g. I will give it another look,though, in 2011 when my current lease is up depending on what else is out there.

KeithL

OK so I had to drop my 3G off for work and they loaned me an 09 TL for 2 days. So now I have real world use of the car in my normal environment so I thought I woudl update my impressions. OK first I may have been worng about the acceleration, the 4G accelerates at least as good as my 08 Type-S, and feels very refined. The car also feels very tight, but then it had 100 miles on it and my car is at 10K. The ride is very nice if you like the softer ride of a base TL, I love my Type-S ride so the 4G felt soft and not as precise. The EPS steering is very nimble, but does not provide enough road feel or resistance, I know this is a common trend lately, but I don't like it, it needs a tad more resistance and more feedback.

As for the interior, well I know most people love it, and while I don't love it I don't hate it. I don't care for the Navi hump and wish they made it more like the TSX or BMW where the dash cowl flow across the entire dash. I still prefer my 3G Type-S guages, the 4G guages seem smaller and not as clear. The thing that really turns me off on the interior is the clutter and confusion of button in the center stack and the cheap look to them especially the navi knob. Sure the Inifinit knob is plastic, but it looks classier. The leather is real nice and supple and the materials on the interior are mostly an upgrade fomr the 3G. The steering whell is a tad smaller and fatter and feels real good. The doors close with a nice thump and the car is quieter than my 3G making a G35 seem down right overly noisy!The ride is not my cup of tea as the car is very large and feel bigger and less controlled than my 3G, again mine is a Type-S so this shodul be expected.

OK and finally the exterior. It has been a month since I test drove a TL so having the loaner for 2 days I wanted to like the car, but I still can't. The grill is the biggest offender, but the concave hood and bulging front wells just turn me off. The car just does not flow for me, seems like front mid and rear were styled by different people. The trink deck seems very light and requires extra force to close if you use the close hanlde in the trunk, likely because the truck lid is much smaller and lighter thana 3G.


The most ironic thing is my 3G was in for second time to try and quiet buzzy back deck, well the 4G is not much better it buzzed under certain medium bass loads, seems Honda still can't secure a back deck after 5 years!!

All in all the car has substantial improvements over the 3G, but in the end I need to liek the look and love the car, I just can't. As much as I want to I felt if I bought one it woud lbe like a forced pre-arranged marriage, you toloerate it, but wish you had something else!

The good news is as much as I keep looking for soemthing to buy as I still have the itch I feel I will be in my 3G much longer than I planned, whci in tough econimc times will likely save me $$$$. .

For those that like and buy the 4G, congrats if it is your thing it is a good thing to own, for those that don't like the 4G and wanted to, well maybe the MMC in 3 years will help or there is always the 5G.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Will you be test driving the SH-AWD model soon?

KeithL

My dealer will call as soon as they have a AWD to test drive. They had a pre-sold one come in this week, so I could not drive it. It will have to be one out of this world ride to win me over the styling objections I have. I just took out a G35 again today and if the SH-AWD does not convince me to overlook the styling then G37 Sedan will likely be in my garage in about 4 months. If they get super agressive on 08 G35 I may bite, but they have to go more than the $4K off invoice sine the car is already now a year old.

ks7123

Keith L, do yourself a favor and get the G37, had mine since Tuesday (G37xs), rainy weather, with leaves on the ground, and dry weather, the car is FUN to drive, I test drove the SHAWD, and it doesnt compare

Wavehogger

You know all our opinions are subjective. And I drove the G37x as well, and yea it is 'fun', meaning it's a little quicker straight line (only), when that nice high revving VQ is up at 7600rpm it sounds great but a little noisy in a weird way, and it has much less of the ride quality. So it all depends on what Keith is looking for. Does he rathers the look of the TL or G37x, and/or a bit more refinement in ride and interior quality in the TL, as well as much nicer VGA nav etc, or more of the performance factor of the G37x. Keith wait to drive the SH-AWD for sure, then I think you'll know right away. And if you can drive one with the High perf tires.

These two cars are headed in two different directions more now than ever. I'm not putting down the G37x one bit, I love the car for what it is, and gave it a try, but I actually LOVE the TL design and everything it has to offer me. Now it is sitting here at home after picking it up last night because I had surgery 2 wks ago and I can't drive yet, well not without being in pain so I have to wait a bit.

KeithL

Yeah if the 09 G37 Sedan were out I woudl have gotten one today, just not sure I want a 1 year old car the day I buy it. 09 is dleayed until January, glut of 08's left.

KeithL

Yeah I agree the TL is headed in a different direction, more luxury, which I woudl not mind if the styling were there, I figure the SHAWD will give a great ride, but the styiling and honestly the car is getting to big! I wish the G were about 1-2 inches wider as us larger Americans it is borderline snug, but snug does translate into a fun driving car.

I do agre that the 4G the refinement is up a notch and while the Infiniti G is no slouch it is more straight foward. I think what Infiniti needs to fix ASAP is their Navi, it is very small compared to competition and the rez is poor as well. It is acceptable 2 years ago, but to go another 2-3 years Infiniti is going to start to have trouble. Also they need to improve their Navi ergonomics as well, the voice activation is crap compared to Acura, especially the 4G. My 3G DVD Navi is far superior in functionality than their HD Navi.

In the end no car is perfect and there are compromises, but the one comprise I just can;t make yet is the styling, I have to LOVE my car, as I have said over and over, every day I exit my car and back and turn back and love the car, I can do that with a G35 or G37, but find it hard to think I could ever do that as much with a 4G TL.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Keith, what you should do is make the 09 TL as your screensaver and/or wallpaper. That way you will get used to it..hopefully..haha

KeithL

Oh maybe it will casue me to and vomit, or casue me to use my computer less

ks7123

Keith, buy a 1 way ticket to Philly, I'll pick you up at the Airport, drive you to the Infiniti Dealer, then you can enjoy a nice ride back to Atlanta in your new 2009 G37.

Also, I had the Navi in my 2007 G and this one is a little better in the 09 G, maybe not as nice a pic as the TL, the G however has easier buttons to handle, and I guess my only complaint is the fingerprints on my monitor from the touchscreen, at least the TL screen should stay smudge free

KeithL

OK so my daler go int 3 SH-AWD cars, they prepered one and let me take it for a spin. I only drove it about 22 miles in about 40 mintues, hit some traffic, but the performance, was WOW! I understand why Pete traded up his 4G after a month, this car is awesome ride! This thing just sticks int he corners. Now how much is SGH-AWD vs. the stiffer suspension vs. the 18" wheels with shorter tires, is anyone's gues, but I threw it into a few monor steep curves at 45MPH and it was planted, it also is nice that the seats are even deeper, more scuplted and more side blostering than even my 3G Type-S. The one thing that bothers me is this car is still so damn big, my Type-S feels a bit more agile and nimble, but dies not corner as well as this thing does. And of course the styling, well the grill and rear still turn me off. The SH wheels are very nice and the base TL needs 18 inch wheels badly. The dealer told me the 2 things helping them sell 4G TL is wheel upgrades and painted grills. These are 2 easy fixes Acura can make for 10, I woudl think minimal if any engineering effort. Even the dealer said they did not liek the grill at first, but now they stare at it every day it grew on them, if it takes staring at the grill every day for 2 months to grow on me, forget it. I will say the SH is one beast, I can't imagine what the 4G Type-S will be like and offer in 2012!! I can guess it will easily push them toward $45K+ by then.

PetesTL

Hey Keith....you finally did it.....you finally test-drove the car! Congrats! It's nice to hear you validate some of what I was saying about this car earlier. I mean it's one thing to talk about a car endlessly, but unless you actually take one for a spin yourself, it's very difficult to describe or judge the true character of the car. I cannot see Acura not putting out a true Type-S in a few years.....in my opinion, all they need to do is put the TL on some weight-loss program, maybe get a Direct-Injected engine or a supercharger, and a 6 or 7 sp. trans.....yes, it most likely will cost more, but new cars go up in price every year.....that's inflation for you.

KeithL

Pete,

When you havd the base 4G with thr 19" wheels how did it ride compared to with the stock wheels and tires and then compared to the SH, I know th eSH will be better, but how much of the poor ride in the base car is while and tire I wonder? Would a 18" inch stabdard tire help?

PetesTL

The base car with the 19" wheels and hi-perf. tires rode a little stiffer than with the stock rims, but the grip and cornering was improved a bit (as it should be expected when you put on more rubber). However, it's still no contest compared with the SH-AWD car....the way this car takes on a corner or accelerates from a hard launch, is in a whole other league.....or the confidance it inspires when the road becomes less than ideal......it's like driving a completely different car (which you probably understand now after test-driving it).

KeithL

So for giggles I went and drove a Passat CC yesterday. I was intrigued by the car's styling as I now am searching for my next ride since I pretty much have scratched the 4G becasue of the size and styling. I really doubt I woudl own a VW due to their notorious reliability problems, but figured, let me see what is out there.

The VR6 CC really gets up and moves and handles very well. I would out it in the middle of a 4G base and SH model. It is nimble, spools up power quickly and feel far lighter than it really is.

The styling of the VW is very sleek, very much borrowed from the MB CLS, not as swept as the CLS, but overall fits that 4 door coupe look. The exterior styling is very nicely executed and flows vey nice front to back, although the rear is a bit too tapered for me and I prefer true dual exhaust on each side, not dual pipes on one side.

The interior is where the CC begins to fall aprat. After coming from 5 3G TLs the VW materials are just not worth what is a $42K loaded VR6 CC. The keyless push to start is not really keyless, you put the key in a slot in the dash and push it to start, how lame is that. The Dynaaudio sound system is not bad, has more power than even the 4G TL ELS, but is not as clean easpecially as power climbs. The lows are boomy and not clean, but it does deliver lows much higher in the power band than the 4G ELS. The HVAC controlas are very cheap and simplistic. Als sicne this is a 4door coupe style the door sill is high and if you try to position your seat high the sterring wheel begins to cut of much of the guage cluster. They could really benefit from an infiniti stlye wheel and instrument adjust as one set up. The leather seats are nice combo of sporty and comfortable, but you clearly feel the difference where the leather ends and vinyl starts.

Overall this is a decent car that needs some interior work and just does not warrant a $42K price tag loaded. You can get lesser modles for $30K and if they were that price point decently optioned up this would be a nice car. Interestingly there were several people in the VW dealership checking out the CC, more than I saw in the Acura dealership checking out 4G TLs, I know that is no big deal, but in tough car times thought it was an interesting observation. What I though was odd was why this does not wear an Audi badge and have a better interior they could probably easily get more $$$ for it.

kobi2002

lol

SebringSilver

Keith,

Why not expand your search to include the new Audi A4? I suspect you'll be very pleased with both the interior and exterior design. It handles very well and the Quattro AWD gives it great versatility. If you need more power, there's also the new S4 with its supercharged V6.

Do you have a budget in mind?

PetesTL

I was close to buying a '09 A4 several months...the one I wanted was a loaded A4 2.0T w/Prestige Package and Drive Select.....only problem: $48K! (Base cars are so stripped down, they look like rental cars). I love the look of the upcoming new S4.....but given that the current S4 is easily well over $50K, I can imagine what the next S4 will cost. Audi's are nice, elegant cars, but way over-priced.

SebringSilver

LOL

You might be right, Pete. I dug up some old files the other day and it turns out my '06 S4 cost more than my '09 C63! Oh well, at least it's got AWD and lots of carbon fibre inside.

I still think Acuras are great value for money.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

C63 AMG is such a great deal. $63k CAD and you get the MB badge, 457hp V8, and lots of luxury features.

KeithL

A4 is appealing but just outside my price range I'm trying to stay aroun $40K, the CC was justa whim and I knoew it woudl never attract me with it being a VW and $42K, as much as the 4G styling does not appeal to me for $42K I'd do a 4G SH in a heart beat over the CC. The CC needs major interior work to justify $42K. I may look at an A4 for the hell of it then just wait a little while.

cp3117

Thats a pretty fair review of the new CC. I am starting to see more people cross shopping the new CC to the TL especially on these forums. I personally like the styling better with the CC and feel it matches up very well with the TL except when it comes to the interior.

The previous generation TL and TSX i felt could be compared with the VW group but Acura in this model year has done a nice job on their interiors to finally bring them away from from Audi's parent company.

To answer your question about why this new CC isnt an Audi is already in the works. Its going to be the new A7 which will probably be released next year. Its going to be way out of the TL's league though as its aimed at the MB CLS.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...di_a7_car_news

With the new E-class, A6, 5 Series coming out next year and all of them are looking to be bigger than the new TL its obvious that the new TL is the direct competitor to the new A4 especially now that the 09 A4 is similar in size (interior room, etc).

You have to be careful also when comparing the cars price wise as lots of people i see show the Audi to be way overpriced etc compared to the TL.
I dont understand why people complain about why the German brands, Lexus etc are always thousands more and way overpriced compared to Acura but then they add options to those brands that are thousands more and not even available from Acura, such as Audi drive select, intelligent cruise etc etc.........you get what you pay for.

bmode

If their faithful, how could you loose them? Maybe they were never faithful to begin with?