Again, you assume the vast majority of luxury car buyers buy at the limit of their budgets.....the real world is not made only of forum car enthusiasts and car magazines.

 

Congratulation for your new ride.


I really fail to understand how you could possibly feel that way...just look at the seats alone...no comparison at all, the TL feels so much richer. The 3 Series interiors, especially the E90 were among the worse in quality and detailing for the 3 Germans.

The 3 Series seats look like they belong to a Civic in comparison....

 

Congrats on your purchase OP. Happy Motoring.

 

Sorry, I agree with you. I didn't mean the seat design, but the doors, and materials for some reason felt nicer. That's why I highlighted it's odd, when to the eye the tl interior looks way more rich and classy.

 

I think the biggest thing with BMW vs my TL that you notice right away when getting in is when you slam that door. The solid sound that the BMW (even a basic 3 series) makes ensures you that the sound deadening is there and the quality (whether it's foam padding or just random crap) in between the door makes the sound of closing to your door to cruising on the highway and not having to hear exterior noise makes it that much better. This is what the german quality brings and this is what Acura and other brands have lacked across all their model lines (including the top of the line RLX which I've driven multiple times)

He also said the 2011 was an M package. So the seats are a lot different than the picture you posted.

 

Even at the doors...both visually and to the touch the TL feels just more upscale, more detailed and rich texturing with fully encapsulated door walls....

Look also at the front seats rear panels...hard plastic with nylon nets used as pockets in the 3 Series...notice how skinny the seats are.

The 3 Series, again, look like a Civic in comparison...but again to each his own....

 

Sorry but the "thud" thing is not wit the 3 Series...with the 5 Series yes....which, by the way, it does not mean anything whatsoever....the "closing door thud" is a myth. The 3 Series is noisier than a 4G.

The M package has a bit more of bolstering....seats are still a joke compared to the 4G TL.

Let me ask you this question...you drive a 3G....with similar money you could have landed your lusty 3 Series...why didn't you?? And please do not bring up the reliability thing....BMW gives you 4 years warranty.



It is unbelievable what the brand image can do to perception...anyone looking at these pics can tell you which car is much more upscale....if you do not mention the badge.

 

You will definitely love this car in the long run. I purchased my '09 White Diamond with Umber 3 years ago and it truly has been worry free experience. It still handles on rails at 86K miles and the ELS is one of the best sound systems, period. There are very, very few cars on the market that I would be willing to trade my TL SH AWD for.....especially since I'm close to paying it off. 😉

 

The regular 3 series use to use leatherette not real leather. I believe the 335 did and still does have real leather.

 

The vast majority of luxury car buyers do have a budget. Also many people don't even consider the TL a true luxury car. So I don't know where you are going with this. The 3 series is BMW's number one selling car. If there were no budget limits it should easily be the 7 series according to you. Why would luxury car companies even build cheaper options? Should I mention the 1 and 2 series BMW has started to build so they can reach a different market. Or the Mercedes CLA 250 or how about Audi's A3. I mean even Acura has the ILX. Your theory on luxury cars and the budgets people have is just plain ridiculous.

Most people lease luxury cars anyways, you can get more car for your money, but a 65k dollar car isn't going to cost the same as 45k car no matter how you dice it up. Also the TL sold more FWD versions than AWD and that is a cheaper car.

 

You didn't actually cross shop the cars with a 30k gap, if I remember correctly you were interested in many cars with various prices and the. Reality set in when you saw the prices. I'm not saying you can't afford a 100k dollar car, but you certainly took the more expensive cars off the table right away. For what ever reason. There is only a tiny segment of the country that can walk into a dealership and buy or lease a car without worrying about the numbers. Most people that can do that still have budgets, they don't want waste money and the people with a lot of money are less willing to just spend freely. The info the dealership gave you is completely useless, it's just a guy with his own opinion selling cars. Even if his statement is 100% true! it's just what customers say when they walk in. There's no credibility there at all.

 

I know i see a ton more 3-series and c-class on my daily 100km commute than sh-awds

 

Yes.. When I sat in the 335 I can smell the leather! I can't smell leather in the tl, and it's abundantly clad in leather.

 

I do not think you understood me well...everybody has a budget obviously and no I cannot easily afford a 100K car...well I can afford it but that would take a lot of thinking. No I cannot afford an Aston Martin.

What do you fail to grasp is that not everyone stretch their finance to the max when buying a luxury car...

You remember wrongly.....when we replaced my wife STI we considered from the low end a fully loaded Outback to, on the high end and Audi A7...you do the math.

Finally we narrowed to the Q50 Sport and the GS and the Q50 won....we did not exclude the A7 because of its price.


You keep bringing up this argument despite the fact that I showed you media publication that mentioned the 5 Series as a TL competitor (and some are major media likr KBB and Edmunds), Acura own press release and, finally people that actually own the TL......

You decide to live in your reality where everybody spend up to their last cent on a car, I live in my reality where a quite a lot of people can afford a noticeable price delta when shopping for cars, especially upscale cars.....and I provided ample proof of that.

 

I'm not sure of the source of the myth that a 535 is superior to the TL AWD in performance. It is a myth, at least comparing the 535 MT to the TL MT. The TL bests the 535 in acceleration, handling, and braking. For 20K less. Add more comfortable seats, a vastly better sound system and Japanese reliability, and at least for me, it was a no-brainer.


I will agree that the Acura AT really seems to strangle the output of the AWD car - hard to say why.

 

I don't keep my reality where I spent my last cent, I keep it in the real world. Yes certain publications will compare a TL and a 5 series due to size, while others will compare a TL and 3 series due to price. The TL fits into both categories for that reason, but most consumers do stick to a budget and a car costing 20 grand more than the others will usually push itself out of contention. As for my last dollar, I actually went shopping for a 5 series and ended up with an Acura. Mainly because of the BMW dealerships themselves. I went to 3 dealerships looking to buy a 5 series outright cash in hand. They all said the same thing, "lease the car never buy a new one, you will regret it". Well that right there pushed me away from BMW and I went looking at. Acuras because several friends own them. I mean in 2013 I bought a SHO which is a direct 5 series competitor and larger than the TL and I feel an all around better car. But my last few cents were spent on the 2010 Camry I just bought in October. Yet my only gripe is with the TL. The Camry and SHO do exactly what they were built to do, so does my 09 Vette. But the TL seems to be lacking. I own a SH AWD fully loaded TL and while it's not the worst car I have ever owned it's not in the top 5 either. Many people on here are Acura fanboys and get mad about the reality but it's my car and my opinion about it. And yes most people do cross shop the TL and 3 series, because in the end it's all about money and 95% of the people buying cars have budgets.

 

Congrats on the new ride! In the long run you will be happier that you went with the TL, not as engaging as a BMW but better in every other aspect.

 

Lady Luck is on your side.

 

Brock, finally we converge....ask yourself, despite having similar size, no comparison are ever drawn between a Camry, an Avalon or an Accord to a 5 Series.....they do have powerful V6 as well....

 

Exactly.

Some couch jockey, sitting at home, looking at only at numbers, can become an internet expert and compare a lot of cars.

Go take several for a real test drive, and the comparisons start to mean something.

Then research and consider: build quality, reliability, resale, and yes 'exclusivity' ( I know, it's a dirty word) and a comparison starts to mean something.

The 335 is a very good car. The TL is a very good car. They are simply different strokes for different folks. Neither are super exclusive, which I like.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you on how 3 series don't have sound deadening in the doors. Also, in the pictures. You displayed the rear seats of the 3 series without the rear seats, but also if you noticed the bottom of the panels don't show raw metal like our TL's do. They in fact have a layer of felt/foam over it. It might have been the 3 series you drove that was noisier or you might have compared an E46.

And I drive a 4th Gen TL, not a 3G. I didn't want a 3 series because I needed a roomier car and also I could not find a 2009+ 335i sedan with the M package and nav under 24k. My initial plan was that this car was for my family to share. After I purchased it, my parents did not like the gas mileage and bought themselves a Camry Hybrid to share. I won't be holding my car for too much longer. Since there's now a family vehicle, my next purchase will be an ISF and this is mainly for the reliability issues that I've been having with Acura and for the 400+hp V8 NA vehicle that I've always dreamed of owning.

It's not brand image. It's research and engineering. Yes there might be plastic and I'll agree that TL's do have probably one of the best seats in the market in terms of comfort. But as everyone in this forum can agree when comparing the TL to any major comparison (Lexus IS, Mercedes C, BMW 3) is that there is a more road and cabin noise than the other major 3 brands.

 

I think you go the pictures confused...it is the TL that has almost fully encapsulated door thickness where the 3 doesn't and it shows raw metal (the red door is the 3 Series).

I drive 3 Series often not only one....they are extremely fun to drive but their interiors are clearly inferior and build quality is actually not on par with the other Germans (Audi and MB)

Buy a 5 Series then....especially used the price gap with the TL narrows considerably....if you cosider the Germans so superior you should spend the extra coin.

More road noise does not mean the car is less refined.....a Camry an Avalon or a Lexus ES are extremely quite (especially the ES) I woudl hardly consider them more sophisticated than a TL.

I do not recall any 3 Series quieter than a 4G TL.

It's thinner less contoured seats, cheaper feeling plastics, thinner doors etc....the 3 Series interiors are simply not on par nor as inviting.

 

I was talking about specifically the rear seats where the raw metal is covered with felt in the 3 series. If you've ever done coilovers or springs in a 4th gen TL, you'd know that as soon as you lift the rear seats off it shows bare metal. When I lean against my interior door panel in my TL, I hear creaking and I know music with enough bass would rattle the panels (as what is currently happening in my passenger side door panel).

As for the 5 series. I was specifically looking at a 535i but the E60 style is quite outdated with the earliest model coming from 2004, their navigation iDrive model not being updated until 2010 from the CCC to CiC model where as the E9x models were already upgraded from 2009 to CiC. I also focused on purchasing the LCI models which again, were very limited for E60's and only came in 09+ for 3 series.

On top of that, the 535i and onwards only had a single outlet exhaust or dual exhaust from the left and not double port like the F10 535i and 550i which was what I wanted in looks. Price ranges on the 535i and 550i F10's start at 35k+ and aren't fully optioned and at that time, it wasn't one of the vehicles I was "budgeting" or "cross shopping" for.

I chose the TL UA9 because it was the latest generation in it's model where as I knew the E9x and E60's were being phased out with the F10 and F3X's. I also chose it because I had heard amazing reviews about the AWD system and although it is FWD oriented, it is supurb and I do like it a lot. However, I'm not satisfied nor do I believe that Acura's reliability and durability is there where it originally was in their TSX, RSX and multiple 4 cylinder vehicles. I'm sorry but my CL Type S was a 2001. It's 2014 and they still haven't figured out how to properly build a transmission without it blowing up or having torque converter issues (also a common occurrence in my parents 2005 Acura MDX). 13 years...

Was also very disappointed that a 2009-2011 TL only had 5 speed. I didn't think it was a concern at the time of purchase but now, the 6th gear would really improve gas mileage (as seen in 12+). This is again, why my reinforcement for the ISF is in place. While the vehicle is a 5.0 V8 at 420hp. The 8 speed transmission is built like a rock and continues to provide on average 10-11L/100km where as my TL is continuously giving me about 14 (for the past 2 months at least).

 

We agree that the TL slushbox was not the best in the business....luckily I drive the manual which is instead among the best.

I never had any rattle in my TL even with blasting music. I think that is up to the individual car. Some early 4G TL had problem with rattles. Mine luckily does not.

If we are talking about engineering the 4G is very light for its size (5 Series size class), the chassis is extremely rigid and at the time of its debut it had some of the highest safety score....that is engineering refinement too.

I'm not denying that a 3 Series it may have more insulating material and foam here and there (but overall is not quieter regardless) but it also had many shortcomings as I described before (seats, padding, plastics, etc..).....the cabin does not feel upscale at all.

Good luck on your IS-F...that is a fantastic machine.

 

I bet the refused to refuse the pinstripe because on a used car, that's been sitting in the sun for a few years...they can't guarantee that the paint won't have faded and the removed pinstripe will reveal un-faded paint underneath.

Congrats on your decision.

From what I gather...it would all boil down to one simple question. Are you someone that views driving as an experience? Or just transportation. If the latter, the Acura with the awesome technology would be the pick. Otherwise, German all the way. That said, I my TL very much...but my next car will either be American muscle (have to get this one mustang purchase out of my system) OR German.

 

Ford just announced their Mustang GT350R. That vehicle is beast and I don't think any M series or AMG series vehicle in it's class (whatever class its even in) or price range can compare. Raw down to the bone of the naturally aspirated engine with 500hp. No ac, no extra weight. I've never been a fan of any american vehicle (even the new Ford GT. V6 Twin turbo. Are you kidding me?) but this one caught my eye... I would take this over a new M4.

 

Congrats on the TL, enjoy it..

 

Every car is going to have good points and bad, no make or model is an exception. The Acura definitely has good qualities about it. But those are completely subjective to each person for what they value so arguing opinions isn't very worthwhile.

For me, I just traded in my TL-SH due to reliability issues. It had way too many issues in the year I owned than it should have. But if someone has a trouble-free example that meets their needs and wants, it's a nice car for sure.

To the OP, good luck on your TL! I love that umber interior. I also looked at a BMW while comparison shopping recently (335d) and loved a lot about it, but the reliability scared me away too. If I could just lease a car there'd be no question about it. But I drive too much for that.

 

GT350

Yeah...that's another thing, if leasing, reliability as a factor is removed. Then it's just whatever gets your pants moving.

 

that Umber interior is really nice. I think years ago in the 3G tl they had a color called Camel that looked orange. I didnt like that but I do like the Umber/Black combo for sure.

 

Umber does look really nice when it's newer. But boy oh boy have you seen an older umber interior. Even with proper care, umber still ages terribly.

 

Really? Then dodged a bullet! I was hellbent on Umber and or Mayan Bronze at one point...

I wonder how Saddle holds up (like in the new Mustangs)

 

Actually the thud was present and obvious in the 2011 335 I almost bought.. And honestly wish I had.

Nothing against the tl. It's a nice car. But sitting in the 335 I noticed the car just felt more solid. I don't know what else to say...

Carsense has a 5 day return policy. I bought the tl Friday night. I might be returning it tomorrow. I'm not sure I like this enough to warrant the 29900 I paid for it. Again.. Just me. It's a great car just not doing it for me.

 

Return it. Buy the 3 series.


Glad you enjoyed the thud.


Only thud you will hear in the TL, is when the transmission takes a dump.

 

When I read your initial post that the 3'er was sold and you bought the TL, my initial thoughts were that it seemed like you settled for the TL but I didn't want to assume. Nonetheless, I still wanted to congratulate you on your purchase. With this post, I see that my assumption was right....

Only you can decide what is best for you. I think the 4G TL (without discussing its looks) is a great car but I do agree with you that the 3 is engineered better than the TL and uses better materials.

 

Do newer model 2014+ 3 series even come in manual still?


Its sad all the manufacturers just killed them off. I'm 25 and would like to drive a stick for at least another 10-15 years.

 

I agree, he needs to buy the BMW because he will never be happy with the TL.

 

 

you used to pay less for a manual transmission and it was called a standard transmission...

at this point, I'd pay extra for a manual car!

 

Return it and get a 3 Series then...I would never settle myself for something I do not really like. You need to be happy with your purchase.

Luckily there are a gazillion of used 3 Series to pick from...it's almost as common as a Civic sedan....with a look to match I would add but that's me.