hat year is yours again?
They have mine AS WE SPEAK...Im so stressed in hoping the cover it. How does it drive? Any different?

Oil consumption 4G TL SH-AWD Automatic transmission (J37 engine)
 

I have looked up the internet and found this is a common issue for the J37A engine (Also used on the previous generation RL, MDX, ZDX etc.) . I started to notice this on my 2010 TL around 8k km (5k miles) where at 30% oil life the low oil indicator comes on. I suspect this is a problem right off the beginning just getting worse and finally noticeable when the engine gets to a certain age. Right now at a little over 13k km (8k miles) I am consuming a little over a quart every 2000 miles, requiring 3 quarts between oil changes. There seem to be people with the same engine having even worse oil consumption than me. Since the owner's manual doesn't say exactly what is "normal" oil consumption I am wondering about the oil consumption level of other people with the same engine?

By the way, I have been using mobile 1 5w-20 fully synthetic oil (although recommend by the manufacturer this is quite thin which may worsen the oil consumption). I am wondering has anybody tried a heavier viscosity oil or conventional oil and does it help reduce oil burning?

I am suspecting there is a design flaw with the J37 engine, as the block is made of aluminum (instead of cast iron for the J35) and since aluminum is softer the internal parts (cylinder walls, piston rings etc.) wear prematurely and oil start goes into the combustion chamber..
It is interesting that they dropped the J37 all together starting from the TLX, which makes me wonder there is really a defect (apart from the reason that they need to make the engines more efficient)

Not all consume excess oil. It seems to be hit or miss. Not sure why some do and some don't. FYI acura has put out a service bulletin saying 1 quart for every 1000 miles is "normal". Which means they wont do anything for you unless its consuming that much or more.

Mine does eat oil, not sure how much exactly. I just check it regularly and top up if needed.

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have heard about that 1 quart/1000 mile which to me is way too high than "normal"...

Unfortunately nowadays they also recommend longer oil change intervals and thinner oil which just magnifies the issue...

As for why some cars consume oil and some don't, as I mentioned, it may be the aluminum engine. There are always manufacturing variations and some engines are better built than others. If you are lucky you will get an engine that wears down slower than others. However, on average aluminum engines wear down faster than cast iron engines so the percentage of cars having oil consumption issues is way higher. But this is just my guess.

I thought it had to do with the silicon lined cylinders as well.

The 3.5 in the FWD cars dont seem to consume excess oil at all the the 3.7's do. The biggest difference between the two engines seems to be;

3.5 has: Aluminum alloy block with cast-iron cylinder liners
3.7 has: Aluminum alloy block with high-silicon aluminum cylinder liners

Acura actually has a TSB open for this issue, It may be listed in the thread dopeboy linked but if you take a look at the bulletin here Acura states it is caused by carbon deposits on the oil control rings causing them to stick and allowing oil through. They have changed the procedure to fix it from a whole short block replacement to just swapping out the pistons and rings. I don't believe the different liners have much to do with excessive oil consumption.

Also the addition of A-VTEC which controls both sets of valves. It's on the 3.7 but not the 3.5L for these years

"service bulletin saying 1 quart for every 1000 miles is "normal"". From what I understand, most manufacturers, consider 1 Quart per Thousand miles, to be acceptable oil consumption! While 1K miles per quart, may be THEIR standard, It's still difficult to ACCEPT, when compared to my 15 year old, 241K mile 3.2 03 TLS, with a consumption rate of less than 1/2 quart, at 4-5K mile change interval! IMO, any QUALITY car, under normal operating conditions, SHOULD NOT, consume engine oil, at a rate of 1K per quart!

Problem Solved. They pulled apart my engine and Saw no significant damage. They allowed me to see engine when torn down,
Based on Photo comparison from Acura Tech guide and What I saw in real life they looked almost perfect. The culprit for my Excessive oil consumption...The oil.

Techline instructed to switch oil to 5w30. I had already instructed on my last oil change to do so, SOMEHOW, they failed to do it a few oil changes back. It was only whe nacura Requested the Service Records (they wanted proof I was using the Reccommended oil) did I realize they were using 5w20 Even after telling them i wanted 530.
Anyway, Im at 1400 miles into the 5w30 FULL SYNTHETIC and not a single drop of oil seems to be gone since the day the oil change was completed. Even though the manufacturer suggesst 5w20 for our cars in the onwers manual, the manufacturers suggested in my case 5w30 and..well, it worked!!!!!! They urged me to ONLY use Acura 5w30 as its carries some seal of approval? Anyway, I now feel free to enjoy my car.

AMEN. Seafoam is POWERFUL stuff.

Yup, it is certainly powerful enough to kill cockroaches, but for cars it is pretty much worthless.

Interesting, my mechanic also strongly recommended I switch to 5w30 to help with the oil consumption. I was reluctant to do so but maybe ill give it a try next time. It doesn't seem to consume much oil when the oil is fresh, it really starts when the maintenance minder is at say 60-50%.

So the 5w20 helps with gas mileage but makes the oil consumption worse?

Thank you everyone for posing updates.

it totally worked for my car. I even went in to Acura Dealer Weekly to ensure correct levels. The revs come on much smoother as well.

Pretty much. But I watch my Gas milage like a hawk, I notice no degradation in MPG. None. perhaps under certain conditions? But Daily "Spirited" Commuter driving on freeway and streets the MPGs stayed the same.

Ive been using synthetic 0-40w for the last 50K miles and it reduced consumption significantly although gas mileage did get worse but not a concern of mine.

Do you guys notice any difference in VTEC response? 40W at operating temp is quite a bit thicker than 20W.

I've put 600 miles on mine so far, doesn't look like it's consumed much of any at all. It's still at the full mark, maybe even a little above. Even my TSX consumed more than that.

Just an update...after switching to 5w30, not a single drop of oil used. Car runs smoother, revs come on like velvet.
I made the switch - Im a believer. For me here in California, this oil worked better than 5w20. I did notice a slight downgrade in mpg's.Just by like a couple miles.

How long have you been using 5w30?

I'm looking to get a 2013 TL SH-AWD. Still a good car to buy after all these owners with oil consumption problem? or the problem is pretty much fixed with oil change to 5w30? thanks.

Definitely does not fix the problem, but I also wouldn't let it turn you away from the car completely. A quart of oil every 3-4 weeks is no big deal in my opinion. Of course I'd love for the problem to go away!

It's def a nice car. I think the handling is better than the Lexus GS 350 AWD I'm looking at. Both are 2013. My previous 04 TL did not give me any problem for 10 years (got it used in 08). Ah I wish I still have it. Getting a new car is such headache lol.

I'm at about 66k miles in my 13 TL AWD 6MT and I've been keeping track of how much oil my engine is burning. I'm at about 6k on my current oil change and I had to add about 3.5 quarts so far.

On my 12 SHAWD ADV with almost 96K miles I recently replace spark plugs, head covers gaskets and pcv valve. Car used to burn almost 2 quarts every 7K and after replacing this parts the comsuption has reduced to 1 quart, I think the PCV valve helped a lot, replacing it took me almost 15 minutes. Also noticed the exhaust pipes stay clean for a longer time.

Why did you replace your head covers? And I think you may be experiencing a "placebo effect". The oil consumption is caused by a design flaw in the oil control rings. If you are in fact experiencing less burn, then I'm afraid it's likely short lived.

i love my car in spite of...and using 5w30 fixed my problem of:
• having buy oil more often ( I was having to add a quart every 500 milles or so. This is after checking and there were no leaks found by acura)
• oil changes sooner. My % of oil quality started to slow down. I went about 5000 miles before my car reach 0%. The thinner oil seemed to shear faster.

it also quieted my engine, smooth out starts ups and it idles consistently smooth. Now that to me sounds like a fix. But again it all depends on what the problem was.
In every stage of issues i loved my car and still get excited to drive it EVERY time I approach. Yeah Its THAT fun to drive. The feel of the controls...

and until you've driven through some dangerous weather and see just how quickly the car regains crontrol after losing it to a hydroplane or a spin out...
I wouldn't pick anything else at this time. I love my car. How it looks. How it drives.

I have no idea what you're trying to say with that statement; can you elaborate?

on the Acura TL there is something called an MID (Multi information Display). This tells you various info about the car such as Outside temp, Oil contamination/Degradation %, Etc.. SO when I mention % I am specifically talking about My oil Degradation monitor went from 100% to 0% much slower with 5w30 than it did with 5w20. As the oil life fades, the % monitors shows a lower number. For example. 100% reflects new oil 0% reflect oil that needs to be changed. when I used 5w20, Usually it goes from 100% to 0% in about 3200miles. However When I used 5w30 it didnt reach 0% until about 5ooo miles. Then When I said Thinner oil (5w20) seems to shear more (get dirty or brown collecting microscopic pieces of metal and contaminant more dramatically. meaning just before I changed my oil, 5w30 was cleaner and more clean looking than my other 5w20.

Ummm, no, it doesn't work that way. The monitor in your car is a mileage based system and has absolutely no idea of the condition of your oil.

https://www.edmunds.com/car-care/oil...g-systems.html

No? it doesn't? Read this/ also feel free to contact acura and ask Because thats exactly what I did. And they confirmed thats how their system in our cars works.

i claim to be no expert, I just know what happened when i changed oils. And Before I chaged Oil I had many conversations with acura out of fear of what using a recommended oil would do because I heard so much conflicting info here on the forum. So my switch was founded on info directly from the car maker and its technicians. Call them! they are awesome. they will even research a problem and even correspond with R&D with your concenrs. They did for me.

Maybe I didn't say it in words you understand; the OLM in your car has no actual idea what the condition of your oil is; all it knows is certain metrics have been met and it signals an oil change. If you use rot gut oil, then the system will indicate a change way too late, if you use the most perfect high-dollar oil for your engine, the system will call for a change too early. You can argue all you want, you clearly need some more education on the issue.

How does one get into that menu?

I believe the button says 'select' or something like that on it. Its on the right side of the steering wheel in between the up and down arrow buttons. Keep pressing it and it will change what info is being displayed on the MID.

Haha, yes, that display. I was thinking of the secret menus the dealers get into with more information about the car. I know when I picked up my car from the dealer they were going through other screens on the navi screen.

Just so we're all on the same page on this, I did a little research and the only official Acura statement for the Gen 4 TL Oil Life Monitor (OLM) is as follows:

• Your vehicle displays engine oil life and maintenance service items on the multi-information display to show you when you should have your dealer perform engine oil replacement and indicated maintenance service.
• Based upon the engine operating conditions, the onboard computer in your vehicle calculates the remaining engine oil life and displays it as a percentage. (emphasis mine)

What this means is if you use the exact oil Acura recommends for your car, the OLM can make a fairly accurate GUESS as to the condition of your oil. However, if you put low quality oil in the engine, then the guess will be incorrect as it will call for an oil change long after the oil is exhausted, the flip side of course is if you use a higher quality oil than Acura calls for, the OLM will call for an oil change too early. Regardless, the OLM has absolutely no idea of the actual condition of the engine oil, contamination level, level of shear (which has nothing to do with oil color), or anything else. The technology to allow a car to analyze it's own oil is simply not available yet and may never be.

[QUOTE=horseshoez;16289138]Maybe I didn't say it in words you understand; the OLM in your car has no actual idea what the condition of your oil is; all it knows is certain metrics have been met and it signals an oil change. If you use rot gut oil, then the system will indicate a change way too late, if you use the most perfect high-dollar oil for your engine, the system will call for a change too early. You can argue all you want, you clearly need some more education on the issue.[/QUOTE

I never said the car was an intelligent being that could sit and ponder oil degradation. WTF???! i will continue to argue. My statements are supported by Acura Client relations. If you feel the info I have provided is not accurate TELL THEM their MID indicator and oil monitoring system doesn't know jack about oil quality. And all you did was spout EXACTLY what I mentioned before and the article Acura gave me that supports their product. how is your expertise any different from mine? If you read incorrectly, thats ot my fault. I didn't say the car comments on shear and such. That was MY OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE when i mentioned that. What my EYES saw when I changed the oil. oil life is evaluated by the car evaluating engine conditions. SUBTLE Performance decreases occur as oil life decreased. THATS HOW THE CAR SUGGESTS THE %. That was my original statement.

ah there are tons. You can do a self diagnostic check of all infotainment system components, change the guide lines on your rear view camera, etc....all by tapping in to the hidden menus.

[QUOTE=mrphilipanderson;16289961]So you're saying you didn't write the things you wrote? Okay, whatever.

[QUOTE=horseshoez;16290025]wE AGREE TO DISAGREE. SO YEAH "WHATEVER".

I replaced both front and rear head cover gaskets after discovering that a little bit of oil was leaking through the gaskets. Before, my exhaust pipes used to be black full of carbon and now after changing gaskets and PCV valve there is for sure less carbon buildup on the tips, also changed oil to Royal Purple 5w-20. Placebo or not I can see real difference.

Ive heard good things about Royal purple. I may give it a try .

And then you can try Scamzoil, and then Eneos, and then Total Unobtanium.

Why are you raining on everyone's parade? Did you have a week?

Nope, just your parade.

This oughtta be good.

*period

I found the conversation about a higher-viscosity oil producing a longer oil-change interval very interesting. I've been working on cars since the mid-70's, and find that the useful life of oil between changes depends on a whole lot of factors. In the "old days" before maintenance minders, oil analysis testing companies, etc, you'd typically do 3k mile changes just to make sure you did it frequently enough. These days the cars' computers try to analyze factors that contribute to oil degradation. From one of the Honda sites I visited long ago, the factors that the maintenance minder takes into account include engine operating conditions such as speed, engine temperature, ambient temperature, time, and vehicle use to determine when an oil change and regular maintenance is necessary. It seems pretty logical to bring all those into play, and the Honda system looks at all of these.

How does this come into play with higher viscosity oil (i.e 5W20 to 5W30)? First off one could conclude higher viscosity oil runs a bit cooler (maybe). Or one could say the conditions during a particular period are different than the previous one (colder outside, maybe longer/shorter trips being done with the car, etc). So overall, I'd guess that the only way one could deduce a longer OCI with a higher viscosity oil would be to do it over a few years - so you bring in different seasons, different driving conditions, etc.. If the OCI is longer after that time, then you have a result. But trying to map 1-2 oil changes to a trend is probably not quite valid.

Just my $.02.....

andy

I've been wrenching on cars since the 1970s as well (and have even worked for a few manufacturers over the years as a consulting engineer); your thoughts are well expressed and reasonable. For my part, I don't believe I've ever seen any definitive engineering documentation which indicates heavier grade oils can go longer between oil changes. Have you seen any compelling evidence which supports one argument over the other?

Nope - just trying to speculate why an automated oil life monitor might behave differently with higher viscosity oil. To me, internal engine temperature may be the only plausible factor to impact this automated calculation. All the others appear to be external influences.......

Ahhh, the fact is, it won't. An oil monitor has exactly zero ability to react in a different manner based upon oil grade.

This conversation has turned into one I'd expect to see over at bobistheoilguy. :biggrin: