Acura Announces Nov. 2008 Sales: TL -22.2%, Overall, -38.9%
12-03-2008, 03:36 PM
#41
Honda Fanboy
Demographic of MDX is same as Q7. Are you aware that the MDX is the number one selling luxury SUV in the Ukraine? Here is the catch, Acura does not exist in the Ukraine while Audi does! People are paying something like the equivalent of like $80,000 to have an MDX imported to the Ukraine. Again, this is just one of those things that you have no leg to stand on. You already started it so you feel like you have to defend what you said even though you know it was a complete joke. You would be better to just step back quietly from this specific topic before you embarrass yourself further.
12-03-2008, 03:52 PM
#42
The next generation of platforms has already been under development by Honda. Have you not seen the NSX replacement being tested? What about the Frakenmule-RL? Those are new RWD platforms.
Fuel efficient cars still are in demand, peple just can't afford to buy them or are just choosing to hold on to their money right now. You really think gas prices will stay like this for as long as it did after the gas crisis in the 70's? Get real!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27825003/
VW Jetta TDI named ‘Green Car of the Year’
VW Jetta TDI named ‘Green Car of the Year’
Does Audi sell a V10 or V12 Q7 in this US? Just because you can load an Q7 to be as expensive as a LX, that doesn't mean they are competitors. You can't compare a fully-loaded Audi price to the starting price of a Lexus and say they are competitors. NOBODY agrees with you.
When Honda was making billions in income, kinda like they are still right now, they were busy developing alternative energy vehicles. Thats why they are the only manufacturer in the world to have a fuel-cell on the road right now. They were building a design studio just for Acura. They were busy rolling out a new Accord, Civic, CR-V, Pilot, Insight, TSX, TL, MDX, RL, RDX. Lol, Are you kidding me with this? Even if you think they didn't produce anything when all sales were up, then that at least means they have the money saved so that STILL means they have the money to develop the Acura line the way they want.
You are digging yourself in a deeper and deeper hole
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradv...4n-11825w.html
Extreme-Testing VW's Fuel Cell Hybrids on the Mean Streets of 30°04N, 118°25W
Extreme-Testing VW's Fuel Cell Hybrids on the Mean Streets of 30°04N, 118°25W
http://cleantech.com/news/286/new-vw...-hot-literally
New VW fuel cell is hot - literally
New VW fuel cell is hot - literally
12-03-2008, 04:07 PM
#43
AZ Community Team
I really suggest re-reading what you write before posting
12-03-2008, 04:11 PM
#44
TL cannot outsell ES
RDX/MDX combined cannot outsell RX
GX/LX/GS/LS are beyond Acura competition. Lexus atleast expanded to Europe. Acura is still stuck in home market.
12-03-2008, 04:22 PM
#45
Honda Fanboy
What ever way you look it. VW was more profitable than Honda when times were favorable to Honda interms of fuel efficiency and currency. What will happen when thos are not favourable. Stock market dont lie. u cannot compare a companies with 4 times market cap.
There is no denying that VW has more market cap than Honda. I never said that they don't.
Do you really see there being another time again in the near future that fuel efficiency won't be favorable?
What does the stock market have to do with market capitalization? GM is worlds second largest automaker and look where their stock is.
surely those platforms will take Acura out of its present misery. Acura made fundamental mistakes with TSX/RDX/TL/MDX/RL. It is next to impossible to recover from it.
What exactly was the mistake with these cars (minus the RL)? The TSX and TL have been out less than a year, what is impossible to recover from? The RDX is selling in numbers that the rest of the competition is selling. What's to recover? You do realize that the MDX is the number one selling 3-row luxury SUV in North America? Again, impossible to recover? Impossible to recover are cars like the Passat's sales this month. How about Q7, an suv that starts from $43k that couln't even break 1,000 sales. Or maybe the failure called the Phateon/A8? Pick your choice.
surely VW group is very real. thats why they have such commanding lead in diesels all they way upto V10. where BMW cant compete.
Again, in this economy, with these gas prices, how is that any good? speaking of a lack of diversity, VW is more vulnerable than Honda. If Honda's automotive chain goes completely down in the gutter and doesn't sell a single car ever again after today, they still have several other products in several different industries that they can sell.
Audi A4 starts at 30K but when you load up it. It costs as much as RL. It is they way German brand option package and engine system. You cannot compare a V6 SUV with V8 with such huge difference in standard equipment.
Who would buy a $50k A4? Not even an S4, but just an A4?
I am not comparing a V6 SUV with a V8 SUV. You are the one that told me to compare a V8 Q7 with an MDX. I was comparing the starting prices of a V6 MDX and V6 Q7. Have you forgotten already?
Evert car manufacturer is making alternative vehicles. whats they big deal with Honda. They lost it on Insight. Alternative fuel vehicles cannot save Honda from financial disaster. there is simply no money to be made for next decade alteast.
The big deal with Honda is that they have their alternative fuel vehicle on the road already. They have built the infrastructure to support it. Thats why in So Cal you have HONDA refueling stations, not VW. The only "alternative fuel" vehicle VW has available right now is a diesel. Honda has a lot of concepts also, but we are not talking about concepts. We are talking about what IS, not what COULD BE.
There is no denying that VW has more market cap than Honda. I never said that they don't.
Do you really see there being another time again in the near future that fuel efficiency won't be favorable?
What does the stock market have to do with market capitalization? GM is worlds second largest automaker and look where their stock is.
surely those platforms will take Acura out of its present misery. Acura made fundamental mistakes with TSX/RDX/TL/MDX/RL. It is next to impossible to recover from it.
What exactly was the mistake with these cars (minus the RL)? The TSX and TL have been out less than a year, what is impossible to recover from? The RDX is selling in numbers that the rest of the competition is selling. What's to recover? You do realize that the MDX is the number one selling 3-row luxury SUV in North America? Again, impossible to recover? Impossible to recover are cars like the Passat's sales this month. How about Q7, an suv that starts from $43k that couln't even break 1,000 sales. Or maybe the failure called the Phateon/A8? Pick your choice.
surely VW group is very real. thats why they have such commanding lead in diesels all they way upto V10. where BMW cant compete.
Again, in this economy, with these gas prices, how is that any good? speaking of a lack of diversity, VW is more vulnerable than Honda. If Honda's automotive chain goes completely down in the gutter and doesn't sell a single car ever again after today, they still have several other products in several different industries that they can sell.
Audi A4 starts at 30K but when you load up it. It costs as much as RL. It is they way German brand option package and engine system. You cannot compare a V6 SUV with V8 with such huge difference in standard equipment.
Who would buy a $50k A4? Not even an S4, but just an A4?
I am not comparing a V6 SUV with a V8 SUV. You are the one that told me to compare a V8 Q7 with an MDX. I was comparing the starting prices of a V6 MDX and V6 Q7. Have you forgotten already?
Evert car manufacturer is making alternative vehicles. whats they big deal with Honda. They lost it on Insight. Alternative fuel vehicles cannot save Honda from financial disaster. there is simply no money to be made for next decade alteast.
The big deal with Honda is that they have their alternative fuel vehicle on the road already. They have built the infrastructure to support it. Thats why in So Cal you have HONDA refueling stations, not VW. The only "alternative fuel" vehicle VW has available right now is a diesel. Honda has a lot of concepts also, but we are not talking about concepts. We are talking about what IS, not what COULD BE.
12-03-2008, 04:29 PM
#46
AZ Community Team
12-03-2008, 04:33 PM
#47
Honda Fanboy
LOL wow how the tides turn when VW can't support your cause.
The TSX never outsold the IS even when the economy was good. There are not enough variations of the TSX to match the IS. The 1st generation TSX slaughtered the 1st gen IS in sales though. Have you forgotten that the A4 has never outsold the IS either though?
The ES has outsold the TL for a while. Even when the economy was good the ES was still ahead. I believe though there were couple years in the lifespan of the 3rd gens sales that the TL was number one its class. Tell me, how many times has the A4 outsold the 3 series or C-class?
RX has historically outsold the MDX in all years, no debating that. Has any Audi or any VW for that matter ever outsold the RX? Doesn't even have to be an SUV, throw out a car if you want.
The RDX competes more inline with the RX. The RDX in fact has more rear leg-room than the RX.
The MDX is better suited to compete against the GX. Car & Driver seems to think so as well because they compared the two against each other. http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test
The RL competes with the GS.
The only cars that Acura can't compete with is the LX (neither can Audi) and the LS.
So clearly, your out of things to say so now your dragging Lexus in to the topic. Enough already. Your done.
Last edited by VTEC Racer; 12-03-2008 at 04:36 PM.
12-03-2008, 05:04 PM
#48
Please, just stop. NOBODY is supporting you. Your just arguing for the sake of argument now. You haven't contributed an ounce of knowledge to this debate.
There is no denying that VW has more market cap than Honda. I never said that they don't.
Do you really see there being another time again in the near future that fuel efficiency won't be favorable?
What does the stock market have to do with market capitalization? GM is worlds second largest automaker and look where their stock is.
There is no denying that VW has more market cap than Honda. I never said that they don't.
Do you really see there being another time again in the near future that fuel efficiency won't be favorable?
What does the stock market have to do with market capitalization? GM is worlds second largest automaker and look where their stock is.
What exactly was the mistake with these cars (minus the RL)? The TSX and TL have been out less than a year, what is impossible to recover from? The RDX is selling in numbers that the rest of the competition is selling. What's to recover? You do realize that the MDX is the number one selling 3-row luxury SUV in North America? Again, impossible to recover? Impossible to recover are cars like the Passat's sales this month. How about Q7, an suv that starts from $43k that couln't even break 1,000 sales. Or maybe the failure called the Phateon/A8? Pick your choice.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews..._features.html
Without extras, the Q7 is relatively unremarkable. Yes, it's built like a rock (sorry, Chevrolet), it beats any Mercedes-Benz for surface quality, and it has a truly versatile cabin, with no fewer than twenty-eight different rear-seat and cargo-deck combinations. But it takes a long, deep reach into the options bag before the Q7 begins to feel really special. You need, for instance, adaptive air suspension, which features antidive, antiroll, and antisquat technology; maintains a constant vehicle height no matter the load; lowers the body at highway speeds by up to 1.4 inches to reduce drag and fuel consumption; and lets you choose from six different modes: dynamic, automatic, and comfort, as well as lift, kneel, and off-road. Lift boosts ground clearance by 1.4 inches to 9.4, kneel lowers the rear suspension to facilitate loading and unloading, and off-road adds an extra inch of clearance to protect the car's undercarriage. The ride quality is improved, too, bettering a BMW X5 with the sport package but lacking the suppleness of a Mercedes-Benz ML500.
Without extras, the Q7 is relatively unremarkable. Yes, it's built like a rock (sorry, Chevrolet), it beats any Mercedes-Benz for surface quality, and it has a truly versatile cabin, with no fewer than twenty-eight different rear-seat and cargo-deck combinations. But it takes a long, deep reach into the options bag before the Q7 begins to feel really special. You need, for instance, adaptive air suspension, which features antidive, antiroll, and antisquat technology; maintains a constant vehicle height no matter the load; lowers the body at highway speeds by up to 1.4 inches to reduce drag and fuel consumption; and lets you choose from six different modes: dynamic, automatic, and comfort, as well as lift, kneel, and off-road. Lift boosts ground clearance by 1.4 inches to 9.4, kneel lowers the rear suspension to facilitate loading and unloading, and off-road adds an extra inch of clearance to protect the car's undercarriage. The ride quality is improved, too, bettering a BMW X5 with the sport package but lacking the suppleness of a Mercedes-Benz ML500.
Again, in this economy, with these gas prices, how is that any good? speaking of a lack of diversity, VW is more vulnerable than Honda. If Honda's automotive chain goes completely down in the gutter and doesn't sell a single car ever again after today, they still have several other products in several different industries that they can sell.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9a3f411c-c...0779fd18c.html
Toyota, Honda and Hyundai see sales slump
Who would buy a $50k A4? Not even an S4, but just an A4?
I am not comparing a V6 SUV with a V8 SUV. You are the one that told me to compare a V8 Q7 with an MDX. I was comparing the starting prices of a V6 MDX and V6 Q7. Have you forgotten already?
The big deal with Honda is that they have their alternative fuel vehicle on the road already. They have built the infrastructure to support it. Thats why in So Cal you have HONDA refueling stations, not VW. The only "alternative fuel" vehicle VW has available right now is a diesel. Honda has a lot of concepts also, but we are not talking about concepts. We are talking about what IS, not what COULD BE.
12-03-2008, 05:50 PM
#49
Honda Fanboy
Toyota is world largest automaker but Market cap is smaller than VW. what does it tell you that Toyota profits will suffer more because of its exposure to US/Japan. And this will effect its investment in new vehciles. U cannot deny the predictive power of earnings as reflected by Stock market.
Dude, YOU are the one that brought the stock market into this. You tried to show me how much better VW is than Honda because of its market capitalization and it's stock value. However, I proved you wrong when I pointed out the fact that GM is the worlds number two in the world yet its stock is in the dumps! Are you really serious with all of this? You are making no sense.
Q7 is No 1. Full size premium Sports Luxury. I underlne sports for you. MDX is not luxury but near.. where its height adjustment or airsuspension?
Uhhh, number one in what? What country? What city? Sales? Thank you for underlining sport for me because I always wondered what the S in SUV stood for
. The MDX is a very sport SUV. In fact, you even have the option of adjusting the magnetic-fluid shocks of the MDX between Sport and Comfort if you choose to do so. In what performance category does a V6 Audi Q7 outperform an MDX?
surely VW is more vulnverable than Honda/Toyota combined.. I told you Stock market dont lie. VW market cap exceed Toyota/Honda combined.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9a3f411c-c...0779fd18c.html
Toyota, Honda and Hyundai see sales slump
I never said ANYTHING about Honda or Toyota combined. The stock markets do lie the way you are looking at them. Would you believe that GM is the worlds second largest auto maker just by looking at their stock? You just continue to spit out nothing but garbage and words just for the sake of having something to say.
Apparently more people bought A4 than TL.
Right, for the first time ever. It helps that Audi is offering 0.9% financing and Zero drive off. Acura has ZERO incentives on the TL. You failed to answer my question though of how many times the A4 has outsold the 3-Series of C-Class.
what is included in that V6 price of Q7 that matters. just like A4 starts like TSX but endup like RL.
What is included is nothing. Which is why consumers chose every single mid-size 3-row luxury SUV out there over the Q7
The big deal is that Honda cannot make money out of it. so less money for developing and improving other products. Honda has few concepts. VW practically owns diesel market around the world.
You are right, Honda does have few concepts because most of the concepts they display usually go into production. How many concepts does VW have and how many are slated for production?
Honda is still making PLENTY of money to develop new cars and technology. With VW being rated as the most valuable car company in the world, can YOU tell me what they have done with their money? With all the money that they have, why can't they still produce a reliable car? Why does JD Powers give VW 2/5 stars in reliability?
Dude, YOU are the one that brought the stock market into this. You tried to show me how much better VW is than Honda because of its market capitalization and it's stock value. However, I proved you wrong when I pointed out the fact that GM is the worlds number two in the world yet its stock is in the dumps! Are you really serious with all of this? You are making no sense.
Q7 is No 1. Full size premium Sports Luxury. I underlne sports for you. MDX is not luxury but near.. where its height adjustment or airsuspension?
Uhhh, number one in what? What country? What city? Sales? Thank you for underlining sport for me because I always wondered what the S in SUV stood for
. The MDX is a very sport SUV. In fact, you even have the option of adjusting the magnetic-fluid shocks of the MDX between Sport and Comfort if you choose to do so. In what performance category does a V6 Audi Q7 outperform an MDX? surely VW is more vulnverable than Honda/Toyota combined.. I told you Stock market dont lie. VW market cap exceed Toyota/Honda combined.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9a3f411c-c...0779fd18c.html
Toyota, Honda and Hyundai see sales slump
I never said ANYTHING about Honda or Toyota combined. The stock markets do lie the way you are looking at them. Would you believe that GM is the worlds second largest auto maker just by looking at their stock? You just continue to spit out nothing but garbage and words just for the sake of having something to say.
Apparently more people bought A4 than TL.
Right, for the first time ever. It helps that Audi is offering 0.9% financing and Zero drive off. Acura has ZERO incentives on the TL. You failed to answer my question though of how many times the A4 has outsold the 3-Series of C-Class.
what is included in that V6 price of Q7 that matters. just like A4 starts like TSX but endup like RL.
What is included is nothing. Which is why consumers chose every single mid-size 3-row luxury SUV out there over the Q7
The big deal is that Honda cannot make money out of it. so less money for developing and improving other products. Honda has few concepts. VW practically owns diesel market around the world.
You are right, Honda does have few concepts because most of the concepts they display usually go into production. How many concepts does VW have and how many are slated for production?
Honda is still making PLENTY of money to develop new cars and technology. With VW being rated as the most valuable car company in the world, can YOU tell me what they have done with their money? With all the money that they have, why can't they still produce a reliable car? Why does JD Powers give VW 2/5 stars in reliability?
12-03-2008, 06:19 PM
#50
Dude, YOU are the one that brought the stock market into this. You tried to show me how much better VW is than Honda because of its market capitalization and it's stock value. However, I proved you wrong when I pointed out the fact that GM is the worlds number two in the world yet its stock is in the dumps! Are you really serious with all of this? You are making no sense.
Uhhh, number one in what? What country? What city? Sales? Thank you for underlining sport for me because I always wondered what the S in SUV stood for . The MDX is a very sport SUV. In fact, you even have the option of adjusting the magnetic-fluid shocks of the MDX between Sport and Comfort if you choose to do so. In what performance category does a V6 Audi Q7 outperform an MDX?
I never said ANYTHING about Honda or Toyota combined. The stock markets do lie the way you are looking at them. Would you believe that GM is the worlds second largest auto maker just by looking at their stock? You just continue to spit out nothing but garbage and words just for the sake of having something to say.
Right, for the first time ever. It helps that Audi is offering 0.9% financing and Zero drive off. Acura has ZERO incentives on the TL. You failed to answer my question though of how many times the A4 has outsold the 3-Series of C-Class.
A-4 outsells BMW 3 series and C class in certain other markets like China/Italy/Spain. In US it does not offer as many variations as MB/BMW.
What is included is nothing. Which is why consumers chose every single mid-size 3-row luxury SUV out there over the Q7
You are right, Honda does have few concepts because most of the concepts they display usually go into production. How many concepts does VW have and how many are slated for production?
Honda is still making PLENTY of money to develop new cars and technology. With VW being rated as the most valuable car company in the world, can YOU tell me what they have done with their money? With all the money that they have, why can't they still produce a reliable car? Why does JD Powers give VW 2/5 stars in reliability?
J.D power survey is statistically meaninless. Audi is ranked higher than Acura. With newer generation cars. the difference between 110 to 130 problems per 100 vehicle does not matter. what do u think about Porsche? I underlined for you.
12-03-2008, 06:46 PM
#52
Honda Fanboy
GM stock is practically worthless. so it means it is not profitable or its selling cars with deep incentives. Clearly It has no financial power to compete without Government AID. The same can happen (It is already happening to Honda). U cannot ignore stock market reality.
The reality is that GM is the number two car company in the world yet it's stock is worthless. It completely goes against what you have to say about VW's stock. How hard does this need to be pounded in your head before you understand the meaning of it?
GM has been loosing millions and billions of dollars for YEARS. When was the last time Honda has lost even a single penny? You forget the fact that Honda has BILLIONS in reserve. If a day ever comes where they go from being profitable to making a loss, they still have those BILLIONS of dollars to rely on before they even get close to asking for a government bailout. To even think that Honda is on it's way to losing billions and billions of dollars is just wishful thinking on your part, at best. I HIGHLY suggest you not make comments like that anymore because it will drop your credibility rating which is already in the gutter down into the depths of hell.
MDX is just minivan. SUV has very different definition.
LOL. Again, you show me your incompetence. If the MDX is a minivan, then the Q7 is a station wagon since we all know what it is based off of. Do YOU know what it is based off of or is it just another thing I need to tell you?
Please, tell me what the definition of an SUV and how the MDX does not fall within that category. I wonder how many MDX owners would be surprised if we told them that they have been driving a minivan this whole time!
Prove it stock markets lie. It indicatedfuture.
Are you serious? You need to prove it to me. You are the one that brought this whole thing up! lololol. OMG this is hysterical.
u havent counted boat load of heavily discounted 08 TLs.
Have you counted the boat-load of 2008 A4's that are still being sold?
A-4 outsells BMW 3 series and C class in certain other markets like
China/Italy/Spain. In US it does not offer as many variations as MB/BMW.
Again, you don't have a legitimate answer so you change the topic. We are talking about US sales here, not sales in Nigeria were BMW sold five 3 Series and Audi sold six A4's.
Yes they chose LX-570 instead of Q7
Last I checked, LX was a FULL-SIZE SUV
Honda insight was also in production. RL is also in Prodcution. Pretty meaningless comparision.
Uhhh.. and your point is? Again, you fail to answer a question that you know only has an answer of doom.
Surely plenty of money Honda. let see what happens.
J.D power survey is statistically meaninless. Audi is ranked higher than Acura. With newer generation cars. the difference between 110 to 130 problems per 100 vehicle does not matter. what do u think about Porsche? I underlined for you.
If JD Power is meaningless, then why even bother to point out Porsche? Furthermore, I was speaking of reliability, not Initial Quality. A Chevy has good initial quality when it is brand new also. What most people care about is long-term reliability. VW has shown that even when they are the most valuable company in the world, they still can't produce a car that is reliable.
The reality is that GM is the number two car company in the world yet it's stock is worthless. It completely goes against what you have to say about VW's stock. How hard does this need to be pounded in your head before you understand the meaning of it?
GM has been loosing millions and billions of dollars for YEARS. When was the last time Honda has lost even a single penny? You forget the fact that Honda has BILLIONS in reserve. If a day ever comes where they go from being profitable to making a loss, they still have those BILLIONS of dollars to rely on before they even get close to asking for a government bailout. To even think that Honda is on it's way to losing billions and billions of dollars is just wishful thinking on your part, at best. I HIGHLY suggest you not make comments like that anymore because it will drop your credibility rating which is already in the gutter down into the depths of hell.
MDX is just minivan. SUV has very different definition.
LOL. Again, you show me your incompetence. If the MDX is a minivan, then the Q7 is a station wagon since we all know what it is based off of. Do YOU know what it is based off of or is it just another thing I need to tell you?
Please, tell me what the definition of an SUV and how the MDX does not fall within that category. I wonder how many MDX owners would be surprised if we told them that they have been driving a minivan this whole time!
Prove it stock markets lie. It indicatedfuture.
Are you serious? You need to prove it to me. You are the one that brought this whole thing up! lololol. OMG this is hysterical.
u havent counted boat load of heavily discounted 08 TLs.
Have you counted the boat-load of 2008 A4's that are still being sold?
A-4 outsells BMW 3 series and C class in certain other markets like
China/Italy/Spain. In US it does not offer as many variations as MB/BMW.
Again, you don't have a legitimate answer so you change the topic. We are talking about US sales here, not sales in Nigeria were BMW sold five 3 Series and Audi sold six A4's.
Yes they chose LX-570 instead of Q7
Last I checked, LX was a FULL-SIZE SUV
Honda insight was also in production. RL is also in Prodcution. Pretty meaningless comparision.
Uhhh.. and your point is? Again, you fail to answer a question that you know only has an answer of doom.
Surely plenty of money Honda. let see what happens.
J.D power survey is statistically meaninless. Audi is ranked higher than Acura. With newer generation cars. the difference between 110 to 130 problems per 100 vehicle does not matter. what do u think about Porsche? I underlined for you.
If JD Power is meaningless, then why even bother to point out Porsche? Furthermore, I was speaking of reliability, not Initial Quality. A Chevy has good initial quality when it is brand new also. What most people care about is long-term reliability. VW has shown that even when they are the most valuable company in the world, they still can't produce a car that is reliable.
12-03-2008, 07:05 PM
#54
The reality is that GM is the number two car company in the world yet it's stock is worthless. It completely goes against what you have to say about VW's stock. How hard does this need to be pounded in your head before you understand the meaning of it?
GM has been loosing millions and billions of dollars for YEARS. When was the last time Honda has lost even a single penny? You forget the fact that Honda has BILLIONS in reserve. If a day ever comes where they go from being profitable to making a loss, they still have those BILLIONS of dollars to rely on before they even get close to asking for a government bailout. To even think that Honda is on it's way to losing billions and billions of dollars is just wishful thinking on your part, at best. I HIGHLY suggest you not make comments like that anymore because it will drop your credibility rating which is already in the gutter down into the depths of hell.
GM has been loosing millions and billions of dollars for YEARS. When was the last time Honda has lost even a single penny? You forget the fact that Honda has BILLIONS in reserve. If a day ever comes where they go from being profitable to making a loss, they still have those BILLIONS of dollars to rely on before they even get close to asking for a government bailout. To even think that Honda is on it's way to losing billions and billions of dollars is just wishful thinking on your part, at best. I HIGHLY suggest you not make comments like that anymore because it will drop your credibility rating which is already in the gutter down into the depths of hell.
http://www.247wallst.com/2008/10/vw-largest-mark.html
A a sign that the car industry is alive and well, the market cap of VW passed Exxon (XOM) to move it into first place worldwide.
According to Bloomberg, the stock rose when "Porsche SE announced plans to raise its stake in the German carmaker to 75 percent, triggering demand from short-sellers."
Now VW can buy Toyota (TM) and have equity left over to pick up Ford (F) and GM (GM) to boot.
Douglas A. McIntyre
A a sign that the car industry is alive and well, the market cap of VW passed Exxon (XOM) to move it into first place worldwide.
According to Bloomberg, the stock rose when "Porsche SE announced plans to raise its stake in the German carmaker to 75 percent, triggering demand from short-sellers."
Now VW can buy Toyota (TM) and have equity left over to pick up Ford (F) and GM (GM) to boot.
Douglas A. McIntyre
LOL. Again, you show me your incompetence. If the MDX is a minivan, then the Q7 is a station wagon since we all know what it is based off of. Do YOU know what it is based off of or is it just another thing I need to tell you?
Please, tell me what the definition of an SUV and how the MDX does not fall within that category. I wonder how many MDX owners would be surprised if we told them that they have been driving a minivan this whole time!
Please, tell me what the definition of an SUV and how the MDX does not fall within that category. I wonder how many MDX owners would be surprised if we told them that they have been driving a minivan this whole time!
u havent counted boat load of heavily discounted 08 TLs.
Have you counted the boat-load of 2008 A4's that are still being sold?
Again, you don't have a legitimate answer so you change the topic. We are talking about US sales here, not sales in Nigeria were BMW sold five 3 Series and Audi sold six A4's.
Yes they chose LX-570 instead of Q7
Last I checked, LX was a FULL-SIZE SUV
If JD Power is meaningless, then why even bother to point out Porsche? Furthermore, I was speaking of reliability, not Initial Quality. A Chevy has good initial quality when it is brand new also. What most people care about is long-term reliability. VW has shown that even when they are the most valuable company in the world, they still can't produce a car that is reliable.
12-03-2008, 07:52 PM
#56
Honda Fanboy
Thats good that u dont follow reliability ranking as reliabilities ranking from one country to another are pretty meaningless. have u seen Philipine made Honda Civic/Honda City. Why should Chinese/German/Brazilion consumer care how CR rates Honda?
I said I don't follow JD Power. I didn't say I don't follow reliability rankings period. I already said I DON'T CARE about other countries reports. We live in the US, we buy in the US, so I am talking about the US. In the US, Honda is considered the best by CR. Why should I care what cars are rated like in China when I don't ever plan on living there or buying a Honda from there? Again, steering off topic to avoid the truth.
The reality is that without Government bailiout GM/Ford will not exist and without Japanese closed door policy Toyota will not sell 20% of its vehicles domestically. and in free market system VW will be number 1 both in Value and in Profits and numbers. Stock market is reflecting that reality.
Who here is talking about bailouts and foreign policy other than you? You are talking to yourself! This article sums it up perfectly: http://www.autonews.com/article/2008...958467631/1199 Please read it.
I will show you definition of SUV. It is very different. just want to see how much you know.
Okay? Show me. I'm waiting. Does it require a drum roll?
Audi has only 273 dealers. There were never boat load of A-4 in existence.
Acura has 271 dealer. Whats your point? Does that mean that since there are less Acura dealers, there should be less TL's? Thats how your making it sound like with your analogy of Audi dealers and A4 quantity.
We are living in globalized World. Cars are not defined by US consumer alone. Chinese and EU market has seriously close the gap with US in terms of volume individually after 20% US fall.
Even with US auto sales at a 26 year low, we are still the worlds largest market. You can't argue that.
Nope.
Q7 is medium size SUV
Exactly my point. Thank you for confirming this. Being as the LX570 is a full-size SUV and the Q7 a mid-size, THEY DON'T COMPETE. The Q7 competes with other luxury mid-size SUV's which include the MDX, X5 and ML.
First impression is last impression. Trust me there reliable cars in VW if they are not Mexicon imports.
Well the first impression that VW's have given to most Americans was also their last impression. Honda sold more Accords than the entire VW brand combined.
I said I don't follow JD Power. I didn't say I don't follow reliability rankings period. I already said I DON'T CARE about other countries reports. We live in the US, we buy in the US, so I am talking about the US. In the US, Honda is considered the best by CR. Why should I care what cars are rated like in China when I don't ever plan on living there or buying a Honda from there? Again, steering off topic to avoid the truth.
The reality is that without Government bailiout GM/Ford will not exist and without Japanese closed door policy Toyota will not sell 20% of its vehicles domestically. and in free market system VW will be number 1 both in Value and in Profits and numbers. Stock market is reflecting that reality.
Who here is talking about bailouts and foreign policy other than you? You are talking to yourself! This article sums it up perfectly: http://www.autonews.com/article/2008...958467631/1199 Please read it.
I will show you definition of SUV. It is very different. just want to see how much you know.
Okay? Show me. I'm waiting. Does it require a drum roll?
Audi has only 273 dealers. There were never boat load of A-4 in existence.
Acura has 271 dealer. Whats your point? Does that mean that since there are less Acura dealers, there should be less TL's? Thats how your making it sound like with your analogy of Audi dealers and A4 quantity.
We are living in globalized World. Cars are not defined by US consumer alone. Chinese and EU market has seriously close the gap with US in terms of volume individually after 20% US fall.
Even with US auto sales at a 26 year low, we are still the worlds largest market. You can't argue that.
Nope.
Q7 is medium size SUV
Exactly my point. Thank you for confirming this. Being as the LX570 is a full-size SUV and the Q7 a mid-size, THEY DON'T COMPETE. The Q7 competes with other luxury mid-size SUV's which include the MDX, X5 and ML.
First impression is last impression. Trust me there reliable cars in VW if they are not Mexicon imports.
Well the first impression that VW's have given to most Americans was also their last impression. Honda sold more Accords than the entire VW brand combined.
12-03-2008, 08:05 PM
#57
AZ Community Team
Here's C&D's 2007 comparison test of mid-sized luxury SUV's, the MDX came in first. C&D obviously know something about testing and comparing SUV's.
12-03-2008, 11:58 PM
#58
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC - USA
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Think you may have a bad link
12-04-2008, 12:29 AM
#59
I said I don't follow JD Power. I didn't say I don't follow reliability rankings period. I already said I DON'T CARE about other countries reports. We live in the US, we buy in the US, so I am talking about the US. In the US, Honda is considered the best by CR. Why should I care what cars are rated like in China when I don't ever plan on living there or buying a Honda from there? Again, steering off topic to avoid the truth.
Who here is talking about bailouts and foreign policy other than you? You are talking to yourself! This article sums it up perfectly: http://www.autonews.com/article/2008...958467631/1199 Please read it.
Okay? Show me. I'm waiting. Does it require a drum roll?
Acura has 271 dealer. Whats your point? Does that mean that since there are less Acura dealers, there should be less TL's? Thats how your making it sound like with your analogy of Audi dealers and A4 quantity.
Evenafter 20% US fallen with US auto sales at a 26 year low, we are still the worlds largest market. You can't argue that.
Q7 is medium size SUV
Exactly my point. Thank you for confirming this. Being as the LX570 is a full-size SUV and the Q7 a mid-size, THEY DON'T COMPETE. The Q7 competes with other luxury mid-size SUV's which include the MDX, X5 and ML.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=136386
That sounds about right. We recorded a 22.7 mpg average in just over 1,500 miles of our usual mixed "normal" driving — 0.6 mpg better than the five-seat 2009 Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetec. What's more, the big Audi posted an eyebrow-raising 24.1 mpg over our 110-mile test loop through Orange County, a route with zero freeway miles. The Benz ML diesel recently managed only 20.3 mpg over the same course
Heck, most of us here would take the 2009 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI over the more expensive and more horse-powerful gasoline V8, and that's saying a lot. Clearly, the new crop of clean diesels is the real deal. May we have more, please? An A3 or A4 diesel sedan, perhaps?
That sounds about right. We recorded a 22.7 mpg average in just over 1,500 miles of our usual mixed "normal" driving — 0.6 mpg better than the five-seat 2009 Mercedes-Benz ML320 Bluetec. What's more, the big Audi posted an eyebrow-raising 24.1 mpg over our 110-mile test loop through Orange County, a route with zero freeway miles. The Benz ML diesel recently managed only 20.3 mpg over the same course
Heck, most of us here would take the 2009 Audi Q7 3.0 TDI over the more expensive and more horse-powerful gasoline V8, and that's saying a lot. Clearly, the new crop of clean diesels is the real deal. May we have more, please? An A3 or A4 diesel sedan, perhaps?
The sheer amount of money behind this clossal project will bankrupt Honda.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1b4db2/0
This Audi Q7's most obvious rivals include the Porsche Cayenne Turbo and the Mercedes ML63 AMG, but the Audi is the only one of these to stop at the diesel pump. Soon we'll see this V12 diesel in the A8 sedan and possibly the R8, but for now, the 2009 Audi Q7 V12 TDI is the company flagship, the most powerful and expensive piece from Audi that you can buy.
This Audi Q7's most obvious rivals include the Porsche Cayenne Turbo and the Mercedes ML63 AMG, but the Audi is the only one of these to stop at the diesel pump. Soon we'll see this V12 diesel in the A8 sedan and possibly the R8, but for now, the 2009 Audi Q7 V12 TDI is the company flagship, the most powerful and expensive piece from Audi that you can buy.
Well the first impression that VW's have given to most Americans was also their last impression. Honda sold more Accords than the entire VW brand combined.
This company is simply not prepared to make some thing big. They neither have the technology or money or philosphy to play in luxury league. I dont see future of Acura brand.
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbi...n_id=rss_daily
The fact is that the market changes are coming so fast we can barely catch up," Koichi Kondo, senior managing director at Honda, told BusinessWeek in an interview at the company's Tokyo headquarters on Nov. 28, before the November figures were released. "It's going to be quite challenging for us to meet profit targets."
What's more, just four "global models"—the Fit, Civic, Accord, and CR-V—account for 75% of Honda's total sales, with each selling more than 500,000 a year.
The fact is that the market changes are coming so fast we can barely catch up," Koichi Kondo, senior managing director at Honda, told BusinessWeek in an interview at the company's Tokyo headquarters on Nov. 28, before the November figures were released. "It's going to be quite challenging for us to meet profit targets."
What's more, just four "global models"—the Fit, Civic, Accord, and CR-V—account for 75% of Honda's total sales, with each selling more than 500,000 a year.
12-04-2008, 01:45 AM
#60
Honda Fanboy
Overseas markets are not important. Tell this to GM & Ford without overseas profits both companies would have packed alteast 5 years ago. What is profitable overseas has direct impact on product offering of firm in US. Honda also thought like that Acura exposure limiting to US market has badly damaged it.
Where did I say that oversear markets are not important? Again, you are changing the topic to hide from the truth.
Do u know how much expensive is new platform development? Ford/GM does not have money to for new plants and products. The same is going to happen to Honda. But there is important difference. There is no one to bailout Honda. It has to be sold like Nissan.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Honda is still well on it's way to earn a net income of over one billion dollars this year. What you are not capable of understanding and processing is the fact that Honda is still EXTREMELY profitable. Yes, even with sales down in the gutter like everyone else, Honda is still raking in the money.
I'll use my example that I used a few posts up that you couldn't process. Lets say Honda doesn't sell a single car after today. They still have BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars to do whatever it takes to get back on track. How is it that you don't understand this? Your lack of understanding amazes me.
Lets go to another example. Lets say that tomorrow the Republic of Congo will become the most powerful country in the world. On this same day, tomorrow, Honda just lost every penny of the billions they had in savings. Because they have had manufacturing plants in the US for over 10 years, they too can ask the United States Government for a bailout. This is something that no other foreign car maker can do.
Ur confusing SUVs and Crossovers and between Midsize and full size ultra luxury. not simple Luxury.
Okay, Enlighten me. I am still waiting for your explanation. Let me know how the MDX is a minivan and the Q7 is not and what each cars really are.
Dealers influence quantity as more dealers. more choices and better financing. SF Bayarea has 15 Acura dealers but One Audi dealer.
Again, you are wrong wrong wrong wrong. Lets see, we have Carlsen Audi, Audi of Oakland, Stevens Creek Audi, Livermore Audi, Sonnen Audi, Royal Motors Audi, Rector Motors Audi, Diablo Audi...ALL in the surrounding bay area. Would you like me to continue?
What more do the people here need to see to realize that nothing you say has credibility?
Volume does not matter. Even if US volume reaches 100 million the financial system and incentives provided by automakers make it less profitable per car. Selling 4 million cars to Russians is more profitable than selling 12 million car to US consumers and that part Auto firms are targeting. (It has plethora of reasons I am not going into this)
Volume does not matter yet you are touting the A4 outselling the TL. Which one is it? Is this another one of your topic changers?
U again fall for It. Auto magazines are comparing Q7 to X5 or ML because of its sportiness/comfort/German heritage not its size. Q7 has never been compared to minivan MDX. MB/BMW simply dont have the kind of money to splash around on Big SUVs.
You, in your own words said that the Q7 is a mid-size. Were you lying? The Q7 hasn't been compared to the X5, ML, or any other car for that matter in the US. Show me one comparison that it has been involved in.
Why do you keep changing the topic around? Changing the focus because you know you are a lost cause in this debate. Now BMW and MB don't have money to splash around on SUV's? Have you forgotten that MB has the G, GL, R, ML, and GLK. BMW has the X6, X5, X3 and soon X1. Audi was the LAST luxury manufacturer to offer an SUV. They were last to the game and they are last in sales in it's class. Deal with it.
Let see how many companies can produce full size SUV that can do 0-62 in 5.5 seconds on diesel power with noise level lower than gasoline V12.
The sheer amount of money behind this clossal project will bankrupt Honda.
Ummm... Okay. Audi hasn't because they don't have a full-size SUV. You even said that the Q7 is a mid-size SUV. What was the point of this?
VW has a choice of either supplyng cheap cars with lower quality or expensive cars but It seems US consumers are not buying the expensive ones and VW is not interested in subsidizing like others. They have created World most technological advanced and most profitable company in the world without even exposing to US. Thats say alot how powerful the brand and management behind it. That strategy will work as Honda goes the same way as other detroit brands but VW had money for new product blitz that will blow away financially deficient Honda. There is new reality emerging in Autoworld. situation for Acura even maintaining current share let alone moving up market is pretty much hopeless. The best Honda can do is to stay in 4 cylinder sedans like Civic/Accord/TSX/CRV/RDX. beyond that every thing will become unprofitable. TL was the final mistake.
This company is simply not prepared to make some thing big. They neither have the technology or money or philosphy to play in luxury league. I dont see future of Acura brand.
You do realize that VW's reputation is built off of cheap econo-boxes, just like Honda? The last time VW had buzz in US was when they released the Beetle. With all the money and "glitz" VW has, all they have given the US is a Beetle. The CEO of VW even released a statement about how big of a mistake it was for them to neglect the US market. He stated that his goal is to be more profitable than Toyota in 10 years. Everyone laughed at him. Did you read the article I linked for you earlier or was it another thing you couldn't comprehend?
To say that Honda doesn't have the technology or money to play in the luxury league is just ridiculous. It does nothing but show how clueless you really are. If you can't see the future of Acura as a brand, then Audi should already be non-existent to you in the US because they have never been able to outsell Acura
Where did I say that oversear markets are not important? Again, you are changing the topic to hide from the truth.
Do u know how much expensive is new platform development? Ford/GM does not have money to for new plants and products. The same is going to happen to Honda. But there is important difference. There is no one to bailout Honda. It has to be sold like Nissan.
Wrong. Again. As usual. Honda is still well on it's way to earn a net income of over one billion dollars this year. What you are not capable of understanding and processing is the fact that Honda is still EXTREMELY profitable. Yes, even with sales down in the gutter like everyone else, Honda is still raking in the money.
I'll use my example that I used a few posts up that you couldn't process. Lets say Honda doesn't sell a single car after today. They still have BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars to do whatever it takes to get back on track. How is it that you don't understand this? Your lack of understanding amazes me.
Lets go to another example. Lets say that tomorrow the Republic of Congo will become the most powerful country in the world. On this same day, tomorrow, Honda just lost every penny of the billions they had in savings. Because they have had manufacturing plants in the US for over 10 years, they too can ask the United States Government for a bailout. This is something that no other foreign car maker can do.
Ur confusing SUVs and Crossovers and between Midsize and full size ultra luxury. not simple Luxury.
Okay, Enlighten me. I am still waiting for your explanation. Let me know how the MDX is a minivan and the Q7 is not and what each cars really are.
Dealers influence quantity as more dealers. more choices and better financing. SF Bayarea has 15 Acura dealers but One Audi dealer.
Again, you are wrong wrong wrong wrong. Lets see, we have Carlsen Audi, Audi of Oakland, Stevens Creek Audi, Livermore Audi, Sonnen Audi, Royal Motors Audi, Rector Motors Audi, Diablo Audi...ALL in the surrounding bay area. Would you like me to continue?
What more do the people here need to see to realize that nothing you say has credibility?
Volume does not matter. Even if US volume reaches 100 million the financial system and incentives provided by automakers make it less profitable per car. Selling 4 million cars to Russians is more profitable than selling 12 million car to US consumers and that part Auto firms are targeting. (It has plethora of reasons I am not going into this)
Volume does not matter yet you are touting the A4 outselling the TL. Which one is it? Is this another one of your topic changers?
U again fall for It. Auto magazines are comparing Q7 to X5 or ML because of its sportiness/comfort/German heritage not its size. Q7 has never been compared to minivan MDX. MB/BMW simply dont have the kind of money to splash around on Big SUVs.
You, in your own words said that the Q7 is a mid-size. Were you lying? The Q7 hasn't been compared to the X5, ML, or any other car for that matter in the US. Show me one comparison that it has been involved in.
Why do you keep changing the topic around? Changing the focus because you know you are a lost cause in this debate. Now BMW and MB don't have money to splash around on SUV's? Have you forgotten that MB has the G, GL, R, ML, and GLK. BMW has the X6, X5, X3 and soon X1. Audi was the LAST luxury manufacturer to offer an SUV. They were last to the game and they are last in sales in it's class. Deal with it.
Let see how many companies can produce full size SUV that can do 0-62 in 5.5 seconds on diesel power with noise level lower than gasoline V12.
The sheer amount of money behind this clossal project will bankrupt Honda.
Ummm... Okay. Audi hasn't because they don't have a full-size SUV. You even said that the Q7 is a mid-size SUV. What was the point of this?
VW has a choice of either supplyng cheap cars with lower quality or expensive cars but It seems US consumers are not buying the expensive ones and VW is not interested in subsidizing like others. They have created World most technological advanced and most profitable company in the world without even exposing to US. Thats say alot how powerful the brand and management behind it. That strategy will work as Honda goes the same way as other detroit brands but VW had money for new product blitz that will blow away financially deficient Honda. There is new reality emerging in Autoworld. situation for Acura even maintaining current share let alone moving up market is pretty much hopeless. The best Honda can do is to stay in 4 cylinder sedans like Civic/Accord/TSX/CRV/RDX. beyond that every thing will become unprofitable. TL was the final mistake.
This company is simply not prepared to make some thing big. They neither have the technology or money or philosphy to play in luxury league. I dont see future of Acura brand.
You do realize that VW's reputation is built off of cheap econo-boxes, just like Honda? The last time VW had buzz in US was when they released the Beetle. With all the money and "glitz" VW has, all they have given the US is a Beetle. The CEO of VW even released a statement about how big of a mistake it was for them to neglect the US market. He stated that his goal is to be more profitable than Toyota in 10 years. Everyone laughed at him. Did you read the article I linked for you earlier or was it another thing you couldn't comprehend?
To say that Honda doesn't have the technology or money to play in the luxury league is just ridiculous. It does nothing but show how clueless you really are. If you can't see the future of Acura as a brand, then Audi should already be non-existent to you in the US because they have never been able to outsell Acura
12-04-2008, 06:16 AM
#61
AZ Community Team
12-04-2008, 06:38 AM
#62
AZ Community Team
It's probably time for this since logic and rational reason are not working
12-04-2008, 07:47 AM
#63
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North Carolina
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If you go to www.audi.com, you can see for yourself that Audi is offering 0.9% financing on the 2009 A4. They are also offering a lease-deal where you can drive one off the lot with not a penny out of your pocket. It is VW's Sign Then Drive event for Audi, only they aren't calling it that.
Special new vehicle APR financing is now available on select Audi vehicles.
0.9% APR on all 2008 Audi A6 models.
2.9%* APR on all 2009 Audi A4 Sedan, Avant and Cabriolet models.
2.9% APR for all 2009 Audi Q7 models.
This offer is good through January 5, 2009 so hurry into your local Audi dealer today to take advantage of these winning savings.
*0.9% and 2.9% financing for approved credit by Audi Financial Services through participating dealers.
*FINANCING EXAMPLE: 2.9% APR financing available on all new 2009 Audi A4 2.0 T quattro Premium models through Audi Financial Services to qualified buyers.
0.9% APR on all 2008 Audi A6 models.
2.9%* APR on all 2009 Audi A4 Sedan, Avant and Cabriolet models.
2.9% APR for all 2009 Audi Q7 models.
This offer is good through January 5, 2009 so hurry into your local Audi dealer today to take advantage of these winning savings.
*0.9% and 2.9% financing for approved credit by Audi Financial Services through participating dealers.
*FINANCING EXAMPLE: 2.9% APR financing available on all new 2009 Audi A4 2.0 T quattro Premium models through Audi Financial Services to qualified buyers.
12-04-2008, 08:00 AM
#64
Wrong. Again. As usual. Honda is still well on it's way to earn a net income of over one billion dollars this year. What you are not capable of understanding and processing is the fact that Honda is still EXTREMELY profitable. Yes, even with sales down in the gutter like everyone else, Honda is still raking in the money.
I'll use my example that I used a few posts up that you couldn't process. Lets say Honda doesn't sell a single car after today. They still have BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars to do whatever it takes to get back on track. How is it that you don't understand this? Your lack of understanding amazes me.
Lets go to another example. Lets say that tomorrow the Republic of Congo will become the most powerful country in the world. On this same day, tomorrow, Honda just lost every penny of the billions they had in savings. Because they have had manufacturing plants in the US for over 10 years, they too can ask the United States Government for a bailout. This is something that no other foreign car maker can do.
Okay, Enlighten me. I am still waiting for your explanation. Let me know how the MDX is a minivan and the Q7 is not and what each cars really are.
Again, you are wrong wrong wrong wrong. Lets see, we have Carlsen Audi, Audi of Oakland, Stevens Creek Audi, Livermore Audi, Sonnen Audi, Royal Motors Audi, Rector Motors Audi, Diablo Audi...ALL in the surrounding bay area. Would you like me to continue?
Volume does not matter yet you are touting the A4 outselling the TL. Which one is it? Is this another one of your topic changers?
You, in your own words said that the Q7 is a mid-size. Were you lying? The Q7 hasn't been compared to the X5, ML, or any other car for that matter in the US. Show me one comparison that it has been involved in.
Why do you keep changing the topic around? Changing the focus because you know you are a lost cause in this debate. Now BMW and MB don't have money to splash around on SUV's? Have you forgotten that MB has the G, GL, R, ML, and GLK. BMW has the X6, X5, X3 and soon X1. Audi was the LAST luxury manufacturer to offer an SUV. They were last to the game and they are last in sales in it's class. Deal with it.
Ummm... Okay. Audi hasn't because they don't have a full-size SUV. You even said that the Q7 is a mid-size SUV. What was the point of this?
You do realize that VW's reputation is built off of cheap econo-boxes, just like Honda? The last time VW had buzz in US was when they released the Beetle. With all the money and "glitz" VW has, all they have given the US is a Beetle. The CEO of VW even released a statement about how big of a mistake it was for them to neglect the US market. He stated that his goal is to be more profitable than Toyota in 10 years. Everyone laughed at him. Did you read the article I linked for you earlier or was it another thing you couldn't comprehend?
To say that Honda doesn't have the technology or money to play in the luxury league is just ridiculous. It does nothing but show how clueless you really are. If you can't see the future of Acura as a brand, then Audi should already be non-existent to you in the US because they have never been able to outsell Acura
12-04-2008, 09:14 PM
#65
Honda Fanboy
Reread your posts. You said who cares what people buy in China and other countries. I said it is Globalized World. Firm needs profitability in global scale to create new 21st century product. It is not Ford Model T.
Yes, I did say that because like I said, we are not discussing global sales. You only brought global sales into the debate because you were looking for something to grab a hold of so you would have something to say. Global sales are important, however, this discussion is limited to the US, ONLY.
I told you that it was untill September 30 quarter where high fuel prices favoured 4 cylinder cars from Honda. Lets wait and see for next quarters.
All analysts agree that oil prices will go back up sooner than later. You do realize that VW's powerhouse in the US and abroad are fuel efficient vehicles? It's not their V10 and V12 engine cars that are really an insignificant proportion of their sales. People buy them for their fuel efficient diesels.
Hypocritical a bit?
Who will feed Japanese pensioners, workers salaries, shareholders above all Tax to Japanese government which has debt to GDP of 200%. Japan of Today is not country of 1980s. I told you Stock markets dont lie. They clearly priced the future. Only Globalized brand with brand identity to individual countries can survive like Seat in Spain and Skoda in Czech.
You do realize Japan is still the worlds number two economy? Seat in Spain? Spain's economy isn't even ranked high in the EU, let alone the world. Don't even get me started on the Czech republic.
Let first resolve issue with Ford and GM. THey need help for next 5 years.
You are the only one talking about Ford and GM. Unless you have some creative way to tie it into the conversation any further, then end it because right now you're just using it as filler.
I am not going to educat you if you dont understand sarcasm. Just look at size of Q7 and internal volume.
Acura MDX Passenger Volume: 144.2
Audi Q7 Passenger Volume: 133.2
You must be all the way to China in that hole of yours.
Please continue.
I've already proved my point in that regards. If you want to embarrass your self further, then go ahead and post the information your self.
I said A4 outsold TL despite it is expensive with basic options than basic TL. Which is what majoirity of sales of TL.
How do you know what the majority of the cars are selling with? Please show me your scientific data. One thing you should make note of though... If you look at the TL owners sign-in, I think something like 90% of the owners bought Techs, highly contradicting what you are saying.
Q7 is definitely a mid size SUV. I wonder how big will be full size SUV
We know the Q7 is a mid-size. You just can't seem to make up your mind though between that and full-size.
BMW X6 is failed project bound to dome. X3/GLK are unrefined. They havent understood the market.
NOBODY except for you is talking about the sales of either the BMW or MB. Your main reason for bringing those up was to say that BMW and MB don't have money to develop SUVs. I, again, proved you wrong in this regards.
When have you driven the GLK to conclude that it is refined? Let me guess, you've driven the Q5 also?
Yeah Audi hasnt produced a full size SUV. I wonder how heavy will be Full Size if mid size approach 6000lbs for 5.5second time.
You are right, Audi does not have a full size SUV. Full size SUV's are the LX570, GL550, QX56, Range Rover, Escalade, Navigator, etc... lol. I'd love to see those cars side-by-side with a Q7.
Past is not indicator of future. Only time will tell whether it was mistake for VW of not concentrating on US. VW has already achieved its goal profitability after collapse of Toyota profits starting this quarter.
Toyota, right now, is still considered the most profitable auto company in the world. The CEO of VW said he wants to beat Toyota in ten years. Everyone laughed, and still is. You really think that VW was magically able to achieve this in two months? lol. Wow.
Think about it, your claiming that something that the CEO of VW is hoping to happen in ten years, has already happened. Your claiming that VW has surpassed Toyota in profitability, according to quarterly results that haven't even been published yet, from a quarter that hasn't even ended yet. LOLOL. Wow.
Thats why we got cars with no options and essentially Hondas with different badges.
Yes, I did say that because like I said, we are not discussing global sales. You only brought global sales into the debate because you were looking for something to grab a hold of so you would have something to say. Global sales are important, however, this discussion is limited to the US, ONLY.
I told you that it was untill September 30 quarter where high fuel prices favoured 4 cylinder cars from Honda. Lets wait and see for next quarters.
All analysts agree that oil prices will go back up sooner than later. You do realize that VW's powerhouse in the US and abroad are fuel efficient vehicles? It's not their V10 and V12 engine cars that are really an insignificant proportion of their sales. People buy them for their fuel efficient diesels.
Hypocritical a bit?
Who will feed Japanese pensioners, workers salaries, shareholders above all Tax to Japanese government which has debt to GDP of 200%. Japan of Today is not country of 1980s. I told you Stock markets dont lie. They clearly priced the future. Only Globalized brand with brand identity to individual countries can survive like Seat in Spain and Skoda in Czech.
You do realize Japan is still the worlds number two economy? Seat in Spain? Spain's economy isn't even ranked high in the EU, let alone the world. Don't even get me started on the Czech republic.
Let first resolve issue with Ford and GM. THey need help for next 5 years.
You are the only one talking about Ford and GM. Unless you have some creative way to tie it into the conversation any further, then end it because right now you're just using it as filler.
I am not going to educat you if you dont understand sarcasm. Just look at size of Q7 and internal volume.
Acura MDX Passenger Volume: 144.2
Audi Q7 Passenger Volume: 133.2
You must be all the way to China in that hole of yours.
Please continue.
I've already proved my point in that regards. If you want to embarrass your self further, then go ahead and post the information your self.
I said A4 outsold TL despite it is expensive with basic options than basic TL. Which is what majoirity of sales of TL.
How do you know what the majority of the cars are selling with? Please show me your scientific data. One thing you should make note of though... If you look at the TL owners sign-in, I think something like 90% of the owners bought Techs, highly contradicting what you are saying.
Q7 is definitely a mid size SUV. I wonder how big will be full size SUV
We know the Q7 is a mid-size. You just can't seem to make up your mind though between that and full-size.
BMW X6 is failed project bound to dome. X3/GLK are unrefined. They havent understood the market.
NOBODY except for you is talking about the sales of either the BMW or MB. Your main reason for bringing those up was to say that BMW and MB don't have money to develop SUVs. I, again, proved you wrong in this regards.
When have you driven the GLK to conclude that it is refined? Let me guess, you've driven the Q5 also?
Yeah Audi hasnt produced a full size SUV. I wonder how heavy will be Full Size if mid size approach 6000lbs for 5.5second time.
You are right, Audi does not have a full size SUV. Full size SUV's are the LX570, GL550, QX56, Range Rover, Escalade, Navigator, etc... lol. I'd love to see those cars side-by-side with a Q7.
Past is not indicator of future. Only time will tell whether it was mistake for VW of not concentrating on US. VW has already achieved its goal profitability after collapse of Toyota profits starting this quarter.
Toyota, right now, is still considered the most profitable auto company in the world. The CEO of VW said he wants to beat Toyota in ten years. Everyone laughed, and still is. You really think that VW was magically able to achieve this in two months? lol. Wow.
Think about it, your claiming that something that the CEO of VW is hoping to happen in ten years, has already happened. Your claiming that VW has surpassed Toyota in profitability, according to quarterly results that haven't even been published yet, from a quarter that hasn't even ended yet. LOLOL. Wow.
Thats why we got cars with no options and essentially Hondas with different badges.
12-04-2008, 10:27 PM
#66
Yes, I did say that because like I said, we are not discussing global sales. You only brought global sales into the debate because you were looking for something to grab a hold of so you would have something to say. Global sales are important, however, this discussion is limited to the US, ONLY.
All analysts agree that oil prices will go back up sooner than later. You do realize that VW's powerhouse in the US and abroad are fuel efficient vehicles? It's not their V10 and V12 engine cars that are really an insignificant proportion of their sales. People buy them for their fuel efficient diesels.
Hypocritical a bit?
Hypocritical a bit?
Honda cannot even dream of putting such variety of engines across the line up. There cost/technical structure dont allow it.
where on earth you mate 5speed auto with 300bhp engine for luxury sport sedan. upto 200bhp its ok. Honda does not know the market.
You do realize Japan is still the worlds number two economy? Seat in Spain? Spain's economy isn't even ranked high in the EU, let alone the world. Don't even get me started on the Czech republic.
You are the only one talking about Ford and GM. Unless you have some creative way to tie it into the conversation any further, then end it because right now you're just using it as filler.
Acura MDX Passenger Volume: 144.2
Audi Q7 Passenger Volume: 133.2
How do you know what the majority of the cars are selling with? Please show me your scientific data. One thing you should make note of though... If you look at the TL owners sign-in, I think something like 90% of the owners bought Techs, highly contradicting what you are saying.
We know the Q7 is a mid-size. You just can't seem to make up your mind though between that and full-size.
NOBODY except for you is talking about the sales of either the BMW or MB. Your main reason for bringing those up was to say that BMW and MB don't have money to develop SUVs. I, again, proved you wrong in this regards.
When have you driven the GLK to conclude that it is refined? Let me guess, you've driven the Q5 also?
When have you driven the GLK to conclude that it is refined? Let me guess, you've driven the Q5 also?
You are right, Audi does not have a full size SUV. Full size SUV's are the LX570, GL550, QX56, Range Rover, Escalade, Navigator, etc... lol. I'd love to see those cars side-by-side with a Q7.
Toyota, right now, is still considered the most profitable auto company in the world. The CEO of VW said he wants to beat Toyota in ten years. Everyone laughed, and still is. You really think that VW was magically able to achieve this in two months? lol. Wow.
Think about it, your claiming that something that the CEO of VW is hoping to happen in ten years, has already happened. Your claiming that VW has surpassed Toyota in profitability, according to quarterly results that haven't even been published yet, from a quarter that hasn't even ended yet. LOLOL. Wow.
Thats why we got cars with no options and essentially Hondas with different badges
Thats why we got cars with no options and essentially Hondas with different badges
12-05-2008, 02:09 AM
#67
Honda Fanboy
I live by Auto Industry analyst.
What do you mean you live by auto industry analyst. I asked what you do for a living. If you are trying to say you are an auto industry analyst, then I'm sorry, I must LOL.
We are discussing proitability and which is now dependent on markets outside US. It is the profitability that will allow companies to do R&D and create global supply chaine.
[B]We are talking about profitability and US sales. Again, you are just trying to bring in the global scales to take attention off of your other failures in this discussion.[B]
There very high taxes on Fuel prices in other countries. So it does not matter a bit if it goes little higher or little lower. This huge fluctuation is fuction of US market and it will be at depressed level for number of years unless dollar collapse against other countries. I gave example of V10 and V12 to show that VW has money to spend to create such things. There is engine calle W12 also in addtion to V12 and both gasoline and diesel engines across the lineup.
Honda cannot even dream of putting such variety of engines across the line up. There cost/technical structure dont allow it.
where on earth you mate 5speed auto with 300bhp engine for luxury sport sedan. upto 200bhp its ok. Honda does not know the market.
Gas prices have not been going up a little or down a little. Try double and almost triple. Where were you when the fishers in France went on strike in protest of the high cost of fuel a few months ago? Where were you when the taxi drivers in Spain went on strike in protest of the high fuel prices? I don't know why your turning this into a my daddy has more money than your daddy contest. I've already affirmed that VW has more money than Honda. I never doubted it or tried to debate against it. What your not understanding is the fact that most of VW's profit comes from it's small, fuel efficient cars. If you knew anything about the industry, you would at least know this. People don't buy expensive VW's. They can keep their V10's and V12's because NOBODY wants them. Even when the US economy was at it's peak a year or so ago, NOBODY bought a VW Phaeton.
Second largest economy doesnot mean anything if it is built on debt. there is fiscal and monetary flexibility left thats why they have to live below 660c cars. Japanese automarket dont define world car market.
Japans car market is the third largest in the world. The largest is the US with China second. Again, without the US, VW will not meet their goal of beating Toyota. Think about the fact that US sales are at a 26 year low and we are still the worlds largest market.
When did you decide to abandon common sense?
I mentioned GM/Ford beacause these are the priority for US government. US government is not responsible to extracte Honda from its deep hole.
If Honda was in a deep hole, they wouldn't be on their way to making a net income of over a billion dollars.
What is passenger volume of Honda odyssey?
Find out at www.honda.com
Just run a search query on Autotrader for used Audi A4 models and see what kind of result you get. It is all loaded with packages. That is layman model.
You can't compare an old model with a completely new model. I didn't search so if you want to prove your point, why don't you give me the results. Is it safe to conclude then using your method that 90% of the TL's sold will be Tech since the owners who signed in here mostly all have Tech?
Surely we know the definition of ultra luxury full size SUV. Its drag coefficients, its departure and approach angles, Its 9.4 inch ground clearance (with regular tires even more), it water immersion ability, its crawl ability.
Is the Q7 a full size SUV or a mid-size SUV? Give me your clear answer.
Q5 is universally praised as more refined than MB/BMW by Edumunds/Automobile magazine.
Universally praised? By two people? Maybe it is, who knows. Were not talking about the Q5 though. Again, only you are and thats how this whole thing got started when you thought the Q5 is going to save Audi.
First u have to know the definition of ultra luxury full size SUV before u can compare.
Please give me the definition. I am still waiting for it because you still haven't kept your word.
That is past information.
I haven't seen any news showing that this is past information. Right now, the industry considers Toyota as number one. If you wish to discuss this subject further, come back with some evidence.
VW was not present in US on big scale so its CEO didnot saw the full impact. Now they have very subtle smile on there faces as it will eliminate there competition for future products.
VW needs to eliminate a lot of competition before it can think of future products in the US. Honda and other brands sell single cars in sometimes double the number of cars that VW sells as an entire brand.
What do you mean you live by auto industry analyst. I asked what you do for a living. If you are trying to say you are an auto industry analyst, then I'm sorry, I must LOL.
We are discussing proitability and which is now dependent on markets outside US. It is the profitability that will allow companies to do R&D and create global supply chaine.
[B]We are talking about profitability and US sales. Again, you are just trying to bring in the global scales to take attention off of your other failures in this discussion.[B]
There very high taxes on Fuel prices in other countries. So it does not matter a bit if it goes little higher or little lower. This huge fluctuation is fuction of US market and it will be at depressed level for number of years unless dollar collapse against other countries. I gave example of V10 and V12 to show that VW has money to spend to create such things. There is engine calle W12 also in addtion to V12 and both gasoline and diesel engines across the lineup.
Honda cannot even dream of putting such variety of engines across the line up. There cost/technical structure dont allow it.
where on earth you mate 5speed auto with 300bhp engine for luxury sport sedan. upto 200bhp its ok. Honda does not know the market.
Gas prices have not been going up a little or down a little. Try double and almost triple. Where were you when the fishers in France went on strike in protest of the high cost of fuel a few months ago? Where were you when the taxi drivers in Spain went on strike in protest of the high fuel prices? I don't know why your turning this into a my daddy has more money than your daddy contest. I've already affirmed that VW has more money than Honda. I never doubted it or tried to debate against it. What your not understanding is the fact that most of VW's profit comes from it's small, fuel efficient cars. If you knew anything about the industry, you would at least know this. People don't buy expensive VW's. They can keep their V10's and V12's because NOBODY wants them. Even when the US economy was at it's peak a year or so ago, NOBODY bought a VW Phaeton.
Second largest economy doesnot mean anything if it is built on debt. there is fiscal and monetary flexibility left thats why they have to live below 660c cars. Japanese automarket dont define world car market.
Japans car market is the third largest in the world. The largest is the US with China second. Again, without the US, VW will not meet their goal of beating Toyota. Think about the fact that US sales are at a 26 year low and we are still the worlds largest market.
When did you decide to abandon common sense?
I mentioned GM/Ford beacause these are the priority for US government. US government is not responsible to extracte Honda from its deep hole.
If Honda was in a deep hole, they wouldn't be on their way to making a net income of over a billion dollars.
What is passenger volume of Honda odyssey?
Find out at www.honda.com
Just run a search query on Autotrader for used Audi A4 models and see what kind of result you get. It is all loaded with packages. That is layman model.
You can't compare an old model with a completely new model. I didn't search so if you want to prove your point, why don't you give me the results. Is it safe to conclude then using your method that 90% of the TL's sold will be Tech since the owners who signed in here mostly all have Tech?
Surely we know the definition of ultra luxury full size SUV. Its drag coefficients, its departure and approach angles, Its 9.4 inch ground clearance (with regular tires even more), it water immersion ability, its crawl ability.
Is the Q7 a full size SUV or a mid-size SUV? Give me your clear answer.
Q5 is universally praised as more refined than MB/BMW by Edumunds/Automobile magazine.
Universally praised? By two people? Maybe it is, who knows. Were not talking about the Q5 though. Again, only you are and thats how this whole thing got started when you thought the Q5 is going to save Audi.
First u have to know the definition of ultra luxury full size SUV before u can compare.
Please give me the definition. I am still waiting for it because you still haven't kept your word.
That is past information.
I haven't seen any news showing that this is past information. Right now, the industry considers Toyota as number one. If you wish to discuss this subject further, come back with some evidence.
VW was not present in US on big scale so its CEO didnot saw the full impact. Now they have very subtle smile on there faces as it will eliminate there competition for future products.
VW needs to eliminate a lot of competition before it can think of future products in the US. Honda and other brands sell single cars in sometimes double the number of cars that VW sells as an entire brand.
12-05-2008, 08:05 PM
#68
[QUOTE=VTEC Racer;10256308]
I guess u have missed the fortune that people made of VW stock.
US sales are not profitable enough to create new products.
What difference does it make from 5 bucks to 8 bucks a gallon. It doesnot change driving habbit and perception. But change from 2 buck to 4 bucks do change.
Japans car market is the third largest in the world. The largest is the US with China second. Again, without the US, VW will not meet their goal of beating Toyota. Think about the fact that US sales are at a 26 year low and we are still the worlds largest market.
third largest based on minicars. European market especially Russia is pretty big by Value.
When did you decide to abandon common sense?
If Honda was in a deep hole, they wouldn't be on their way to making a net income of over a billion dollars.
With all that income they could not create V8 or dominance in diesel. There is little prospects of further models coming up when income is down.
.
You can't compare an old model with a completely new model. I didn't search so if you want to prove your point, why don't you give me the results. Is it safe to conclude then using your method that 90% of the TL's sold will be Tech since the owners who signed in here mostly all have Tech?
Surely we know the definition of ultra luxury full size SUV. Its drag coefficients, its departure and approach angles, Its 9.4 inch ground clearance (with regular tires even more), it water immersion ability, its crawl ability.
Q7 has 6500 lbs tow capacity from 4.2 litre. LX-570 has 8500 from 5.7L. Imagine V10/V12 which are closer to LX-570 capacity. SUV definition is way different than Minivan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT1xA...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0qb_...eature=related
VW needs to eliminate a lot of competition before it can think of future products in the US. Honda and other brands sell single cars in sometimes double the number of cars that VW sells as an entire brand.
It is already doing. I am not going to debate any more as u have little understanding of topic at hand.
What do you mean you live by auto industry analyst. I asked what you do for a living. If you are trying to say you are an auto industry analyst, then I'm sorry, I must LOL.
[b]We are talking about profitability and US sales. Again, you are just trying to bring in the global scales to take attention off of your other failures in this discussion.[b]
Gas prices have not been going up a little or down a little. Try double and almost triple. Where were you when the fishers in France went on strike in protest of the high cost of fuel a few months ago? Where were you when the taxi drivers in Spain went on strike in protest of the high fuel prices? I don't know why your turning this into a my daddy has more money than your daddy contest. I've already affirmed that VW has more money than Honda. I never doubted it or tried to debate against it. What your not understanding is the fact that most of VW's profit comes from it's small, fuel efficient cars. If you knew anything about the industry, you would at least know this. People don't buy expensive VW's. They can keep their V10's and V12's because NOBODY wants them. Even when the US economy was at it's peak a year or so ago, NOBODY bought a VW Phaeton.
Japans car market is the third largest in the world. The largest is the US with China second. Again, without the US, VW will not meet their goal of beating Toyota. Think about the fact that US sales are at a 26 year low and we are still the worlds largest market.
When did you decide to abandon common sense?
If Honda was in a deep hole, they wouldn't be on their way to making a net income of over a billion dollars.
.
You can't compare an old model with a completely new model. I didn't search so if you want to prove your point, why don't you give me the results. Is it safe to conclude then using your method that 90% of the TL's sold will be Tech since the owners who signed in here mostly all have Tech?
Surely we know the definition of ultra luxury full size SUV. Its drag coefficients, its departure and approach angles, Its 9.4 inch ground clearance (with regular tires even more), it water immersion ability, its crawl ability.
Is the Q7 a full size SUV or a mid-size SUV? Give me your clear answer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT1xA...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0qb_...eature=related
VW needs to eliminate a lot of competition before it can think of future products in the US. Honda and other brands sell single cars in sometimes double the number of cars that VW sells as an entire brand.
12-05-2008, 08:27 PM
#69
Yea, It's Me!
[quote=SSFTSX;10259061][quote=VTEC Racer;10256308]
US sales are not profitable enough to create new products.
If US sales aren’t profitable enough to create new products then why did VW build plants in the US?
[font=Verdana][quote=SSFTSX;10259061][quote=VTEC Racer;10256308[/FONT]
What difference does it make from 5 bucks to 8 bucks a gallon. It doesnot change driving habbit and perception. But change from 2 buck to 4 bucks do change.
If you do the math, the ratio of 5:8 vs 2:4 with all things being equal, ………..Oh - Never Mind!
US sales are not profitable enough to create new products.
If US sales aren’t profitable enough to create new products then why did VW build plants in the US?
[font=Verdana][quote=SSFTSX;10259061][quote=VTEC Racer;10256308[/FONT]
What difference does it make from 5 bucks to 8 bucks a gallon. It doesnot change driving habbit and perception. But change from 2 buck to 4 bucks do change.
If you do the math, the ratio of 5:8 vs 2:4 with all things being equal, ………..Oh - Never Mind!
12-05-2008, 11:34 PM
#70
Honda Fanboy
12-05-2008, 11:37 PM
#71
Honda Fanboy
What difference does it make from 5 bucks to 8 bucks a gallon. It doesnot change driving habbit and perception. But change from 2 buck to 4 bucks do change.
If you do the math, the ratio of 5:8 vs 2:4 with all things being equal, ………..Oh - Never Mind!
If you do the math, the ratio of 5:8 vs 2:4 with all things being equal, ………..Oh - Never Mind!
Don't even bother. Logic needs to exist on both sides of the table to take part in a debate. I can see the logic on your side, I'll let you guess where it's missing though. lol.
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