Mpunk

The TL is selling relatively well, considering the current market conditions, but then again one has to wonder how many of them are actually 4G TLs vs. the remaining 3Gs + incentives. TSX, RDX sales drop like a rock. The MDX isn't doing so well, either, and Acura is thinking about yet another crossover??

Acura Announces November Sales Results
Tuesday December 2, 1:25 pm ET
All-New TL Is Sales Leader for Acura

TORRANCE, Calif., Dec. 2 /PRNewswire/ -- In its second full month of sales, the all-new 2009 TL performance luxury sedan remained Acura's sales leader for November with 3,160 vehicles sold. Acura sales for November were 7,888, down 38.9 percent* versus 2007, while year-to-date** sales for the luxury nameplate totaled 133,824 units, down 17.9 percent.

The all-new 2009 TSX sports sedan recorded sales of 1,712 for the month, with year-to-date sales reaching 29,694 units. The MDX luxury SUV was Acura's best-selling light truck, with sales of 2,101, while the RDX crossover SUV tallied 681 units.

For media information and high-resolution photos of Acura vehicles, please visit http://www.acuranews.com. For consumer information, please visit http://www.acura.com.

*The daily selling rate is calculated with 25 selling days for November 2008 and 25 selling days for November 2007.

Code:

**Year-to-date sales based on 282 days for 2008 versus 281 days for 2007.



                American Honda Vehicle Sales For November 2008
                                                     Month-to-Date
                                             November    November       DSR**
                                               2008        2007        % Chg.
    Acura Division Total                       7,888       12,910      -38.9%
       RSX                                         0            0
       TL *                                    3,160        4,064      -22.2%
       TSX                                     1,712        1,884       -9.1%
       RL                                        234          392      -40.3%
       MDX *                                   2,101        4,891      -57.0%
       RDX  *                                    681        1,679      -59.4%
    Selling Days                                  25           25

                                                     Year-to-Date
                                             November     November     DSR**
                                               2008         2007      % Chg.
    Acura Division Total                      133,824      162,522    -17.9%
       RSX                                          1          295    -99.7%
       TL *                                    43,159       52,557    -18.2%
       TSX                                     29,694       30,199     -2.0%
       RL                                       4,272        5,676    -25.0%
       MDX *                                   41,994       52,700    -20.6%
       RDX  *                                  14,704       21,093    -30.5%
    Selling Days                                  282          281

        * Honda and Acura vehicles are made of domestic and global sourced
          parts.

       ** Daily Selling Rate

DivinDude

I read an article that the RL rework was supposed to bring the RL annual sales back to the 5 digit range (>= 10,000). apparently the buck-tooth grille is failing ... pitty

ejliang34

TSX only down by 9.1% which is way much better than the market average, i think.

Colin

This may not be the case for everyone, but I can say that we have received a grand total of 1 2009 RL and it sold months ago. We have yet to receive our second RL. If other dealers are having similar problems receiving inventory, it's hard to post sales. We also have not received any SH-AWD TLs.

Colin

True Cost of Incentives for the "Big Six" Automakers posted by Edmunds

Mfg. Nov.08

Chrysler $3,490
Ford $3,731
Gen Mo $3,248
Honda $1,130
Nissan $2,347
Toyota $1,908

Honda is the lowest of the major brands.

PGSberg

I wonder if part of the decline is due to the increased size of the TL. I drove all 3 cars. It is uncanny how close they all are in interior dimensions. I dismissed the TSX due to the 4 banger and rear seat room. I really wanted the RL in SilverJade but the difference of 10K + less technology caused me to go for the TL. I couldn't see spending 2008 dollars on 2006 technology on the RL and even older on the 3G, even with incentives. I plan on keeping the TL for 5+ years.

Silver_Surfer

Spy shots show that the bird grille will be migrating to the RDX as well. This ain't good. I hope they keep that nice shield grille for the MDX but it looks like it might get the bucktooth down the line also. Sad.

http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=802205

EZZ

As I recall, the 3G TL outsold the 1G G35. The 2G G35 is currently outselling the brand new 4G TL which does not bode well since new models traditionally do much better when they launch.

Colin

Not really. When the G35 launched it was still selling against our 2G TL. We spent a year behind them but overtook them when the 3G launched a year later. We should revisit this once the G37 is selling vs. the 4G only. Right now, the numbers are 'polluted' by the sales of the outgoing 2008s (for both brands).

KeithL

Funny thing is Infiniti sold more G35 Sedans than Acura sold TL's so much for the 4G helping sales against year old G35, although YTD numbers still give the TL a slight edge.



INFINITI DIVISION
November November Monthly CYTD CYTD CYTD
2008 2007 % chg 2008 2007 % chg
G Sedan 3,495 4,399 -20.6 41,040 49,532 -17.1


http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...C68EA0E0EFC%7D

VTEC Racer

Keep in mind that 95% of those YTD sales of the TL are the 5 year-old 3rd gen also. Even when the G35 came out as a brand-new 2007 model, the TL from 2004 was still outselling it. I'm sure 0% financing isn't hurting the G35 either right now. It is rare for the G to outsell the TL in a month, this is one of them. I don't think the G35 (even though it is a cheaper car) has ever outsold the TL YTD though which is the most important number.

Once the dealers start dealing on the TL and Infiniti drops the 0% financing, the TL almost certainly will increase it's already current sales lead. History has shown this to be true since the inception of the G35.

CL6

It's a bad market and few cars are selling well. I don't think the 4G, even under the best of markets, will sell as nicely as the 3G did. The 3G (aside from being FWD) had the most advanced Navi, the best sound system, and the easiest Bluetooth interface of anything pretty much. It also was a good looking car. The 4G just improves on existing technology but everybody else has caught up.

sgmotoring

I hate to say it but Acura is a dying breed! They need to fire the whole crew and get some new blood lines. Car got uglier and uglier. Who okayed the front grill of the TL? Someone must have thought it looked like the beak of a bald eagle instead it look like the beak of a seagull or squid. Stop messing around with those super expensive AWD when your car got no HP to use it! How many of your customer actually take their SH-AWD and go sliding in the Canyon? I hope Acura see this. I am all Honda baby!!! I was even an Acura and Honda employee for 13 +years! To see the Acura line going to C%@p, just pisses me off. Would I buy another Acura? Probably! but not everyone bleeds Honda blue!

crxb

based on my experience last weekend at a dealer - I couldn't tell sales were down so much. Could be the fact I was looking at the 4G TL SH w/ HPT - only been out a few weeks Guess too hot for the dealers to go out of their way to sell. You would have thought it still was 2007 - "a take it or leave it" attitude

SSFTSX

A4 with 3300 sales also outsold TL. And 09 A4 is in different class than last year model which essentially dealer gave at throw away prices. Audi with 6800 sales is with in 1000 sales of Acura. Wait untill Audi Q5 with next generation MMI comes early next year. RDX/MDX will be gone.
TL has first few months where few Auto enthusiasts will buy it. Later on its a practically hopeless situation.
Just unfavourable currency situation will force Japanese Automakers to big losses. I doubt Acura/Honda can afford new model launches or RWD platforms soon enough. Acura has one cheap option of upgrading TSX to save itself.

VTEC Racer

Well Audi is offering 0.9% financing on the A4 and it's only been what, a month since the introduction? Acura isn't offering a pennies worth of incentives on the 2009 TL.

Your comparing Audi being within 1,000 sales of Acura yet you forget to realize that this is one of the worst sales positions Acura has ever been in during it's entire history. Acura has had sales below 10,000 units about as many times as Audi has had sales over 10,000 units.

Q5? Don't hold your breath. The MMI isn't going to sell the car. Hardly anyone is buying the X3/RDX/EX. What makes you think everyone is going to flock to the Q5, especially when you add the Mercedes GLK to the equation also? RDX and MDX gone because of the Q5? How can you say that with a straight face when the Q7 can't even break 1,000 sales? I believe November 2008 was the lowest month for the MDX, ever. Even if the Q7 and Q5 both sold over 1,000 units each and you combined them, the MDX ALONE in its possible worth sales month ever would still outsell the two. Try and be a bit more factual if your going to debate things like this.

Just like you say the TL has auto enthusiasts buying during the first few months, the same can also be said about the A4. Only difference is that car enthusiasts here have overwhelmingly shown that they do not like the TL. So something tells me it's not the enthusiasts that are buying the cat but rather your average consumer. Chances are the A4 has more of the enthusiast effect since most enthusiasts were very receptive of the car.

bmode

I feel it's completely unfair to compare anything with this current recession, all bets are off. In fact, those numbers are good considering! All the haters above will be haters! I really do believe if some of these individuals had this new TL in their garage, they would feel different despite the often mentioned grill and be defending it like us. I was so proud of my 05' TL and loved it passionately, but this TL is just so much more in every way that I don't want to get out of it! The only thing I don't like is the stock rims on the base model, the rest is gravy!

Type34

I think we're all missing the point here...

our real focus should be...

Who's the 1 dude who bought a "new" RSX sometime in 2008?? Last model year was 2006...

SSFTSX

0.9% is for those who qualify and even know Audi. Audi is not as famous MB/BMW. but give them couple of months. end result will different. Audi is the least effected by current crises. They may production limitations.
Q5 is very different animal. The real sport in Utility. Audi Q7 beats Lexus LX-570 is sales. Acura has nothing to offer in that class. Audi A6 beats Acura RL in Sales.
US is supposed to be home turf of Acura.
There is big market of Lexus RX/BMW X3/X5/ML-320. Acura hasnt been able to exploit it. Rather it is selling Minivan as SUV called MDX. But time has changed. The question is can Acura get back above 10,000 sales figure. to make it viable brand that will continue to provide some thing different than Honda or Losses will mount that will disband the brand.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I believe the Q7 competes with the MDX, ML, RX, FX etc. But I guess if we compare like that then it would make the Q7 looks bad....

Well, it doesn't take too many customers to qualify for that 0.9% program. What I mean is, the A4 outsold the TL by 200. I'd imagine more than 200 customers knew about that program.

Back to your comment about "There is big market of Lexus RX/BMW X3/X5/ML-320. Acura hasnt been able to exploit it." I don't really know what you mean, but the MDX and RDX compete well in this segment, especially the MDX, at more than 2100. It sold more than both ML (by the way, ML320 is long gone) and X5. Acura only sold 681 RDX, vs 740 or something for the X3. That's pretty close.

No, I doubt the sales figure will get back up that soon. Every mainstream manufacturer is dropping. Mini is the only brand I know that's gaining.

But you are right, Audi is doing pretty good. It dropped by 25%, while most other brands dropped 30-40%.

VTEC Racer

In this market, of course it is only for those who qualify. That goes for any sort of financing, if you can obtain it. I think it is safe to say that anyone that doesn't live under a rock knows what Audi is, more so then they would know what Acura is.

You are right, Audi sales are actually down the least among the luxury manufacturers. However, that goes more to support my claim that Audi still has a long way to go before it catches Acura in YTD sales. Maybe they will have a month here and there where they beat Acura in monthly sales (hasn't ever happened yet though), but surpassing Acura and sustaining the lead is not as easy as you think. Keep in mind that Acura is going to be releasing an onslaught of new products within the next 5-6 years. Additionally, Acura's sales are probably the worst in its history right now while Audi's is still fairing well YTD.

The Audi Q5 is probably a great car, but so are most of the cars in this class. The class itself just never took off in sales. The Q7 is not a competitor to the LX570. Audi does not offer a direct competitor. The Q7 competes directly with cars like the X5, ML350, and MDX.

Yes, the Audi A6 beats the RL in sales. What doesn't? It's total sales that are important.

Acura's sales, just like other manufacturers, will mostly be dependent on the state of the economy. If Acura sales do stay below 10,000 units, other companies will be proportionally down also mainly because the economy sucks. For comparison, this time last year, Lexus sold 24,848 cars. This year, they are only at 16,223. This is Honda we are talking about though. Do you really think they will let failure happen under their watch? They know Acura needs work. It needed it before the economy went into the dumps and they started that work before it went into the dumps. Acura is not sitting around and they will come back with a force.

Now the following you can take with a grain of salt because it is purely just speculation on my part. I believe that when the economy does recover, Acura will fair better than Audi. Why? Because even when the economy was good and Acura was selling like 16k-17k units YTD a year or so back, Audi was still selling less than 10k units a year. Audi would have had to double it's sales to match Acura's sales. Anyways, just some food for thought.

KeithL

I don't agree that it is totally unfair. If anything in these tight times the peopel that are buying will show what they really want and value. If the TL is such the great value it shoudl hold its own or better than the competitors since people are being supposedly smarter with their money. Look at Nissan 350Z took 44% hit, becasue those segments are where the economy hits hardeest, the non-practical car buy. If the TL is running neck and neck with 09 A4 and 08 G35 to me it says the initial swell of a new model sales are not helping, is it all economy, the 4G styling? No one knows for sure, but I agree with others that I don't think the 4G will match 3G in popularity.


True some people will always hate the 4G. I dislike it, I have tried to liek it, driven it now 3 times and the SH once. The SH is nice and I woudl live with the styling on the SH at the right price, and $43K is NOT the right price. The Base TL is too soft and the stock wheels make the car look odd.

Legend2TL

The 2G MDX beat the X5, ML, GL in a Car and Driver comparison test of eight luxury SUV's. Calling it a minivan as a SUV is incorrect, very little is shared with the 3G Odyssey except they are built at the same Alabama facility

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-5.html


You really do have a anti-Acura bias.

SSFTSX

Your making a mistake which every one else is making. Its Ok for Audi/VW to lose 25% of sales (smaller volume smaller decline) But it is not ok even 10% decline for Honda/Acura as US is the home country of Honda. (volume/profits).
Even without US market exposure. Audi/VW has the world largest profits and largest market cap. with very strong protfolio of products both in engines and diversity. from Coupes to cabriots to sports sedans to ultra luxury(Bentley/lamb). Acura is not even in that categories.
Q7 is not competitor of MDX so it is never in competition. Just look where Q7 price starts and where it ends up. (In some markets there are $150K V12/V10 version).
Look at Cd for such a size.
Honda is droping like a rock. I doubt Acura can afford new product line up on new platforms after TL disaster. MDX sales was based because it was considered as Minivan by public not ML-350/RX/X5. so quantity of decline in MDX is far larger.

Legend2TL

No auto media ever has listed a MDX as a minivan, it's always has been considered a SUV. It's competed against RX, X5 and ML and has done very well in sales and review.

Considering what a rough year it's been for the auto industry total Honda/Acura sales in the US are only down -5.8%. Overall US car sales are up 1.8%, which is pretty remarkable in this marlet. Some of that is luck (only having the Ridgeline), some of it is planning (some of the latest Honda manufacturing lines in the US can produce multi-size vehicles Civic/Accors/...). So your claim of Honda dropping like a rock is extremely exagerated.

http://www.hondanews.com/categories/1097/releases/4884

SSFTSX

That 5.8% decline is based on sales figures upto september when gas prices were record high so Honda could sell its fuel efficient cars. Now gas prices will stay low for considerable amount of time. So that incentive for public has gone. You will the end result pretty soon. That strategy and business model no longer works.

Legend2TL

No it's up to November, check your facts it's stated quite clearly in the table.

And you and noone else knows where gas prices will stay. So whatever incentive you think is gone is just your opinion, not fact. The business model for the Civic has has endured very well from the mid-70's through several oil crisis's, so the folks are Honda seem to understand the market better than you.

I only wish the heads of Detroit would follow that concept in long range planning that Honda and Toyota have followed.

Stash

0.9% is only valid on 2008 A6's. Not A4's.

maverickinvestor

I agree with you. I think the lack of enthusiasm from current TL customers is one of the key reasons why the TL's monthly comps went from positive to negative so quickly.

No incentives on the new TL and the dwindling supply of the 3Gs are the other top reasons I think.

Overlay the general economic problems, December is going to be really tough for the new TL.

SSFTSX

I think you misinterpreted my statement. I said gas prices were higher untill September that gave advantage to Honda. so the decline is much less than Industry. but since October that advantage is not available. so decline has become serious. Honda simply cant afford more than 10% decline per quarter. It will directly translate into loss for that quarter.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

You reason that "...it is not ok even 10% decline for Honda/Acura as US is the home country of Honda." But, don't you think the same can be said for Ford, Chrysler, GM, Toyota, Nissan? All of these companies sell a lot of cars in the States, especially the big 3. Toyota, Nissan, and Honda all sell cars in other parts of the world. I believe in Japan, Honda is in 2nd or 3rd place in terms of sales.

May be I misunderstood what you meant by the statement. If so, could you please explain it?

SSFTSX

Toyota and Nissan are much more diversified with commercial operations (pickup/Truck/bus/Van) on strength of diesel engines and large capacity engines in EU/Middleast/Asia.
Honda 50% proift and volume are tied to US and much more to declining Japan market.

BackinBlackTL

i was at my dealership yesterday talking to the salesmen, they got rid of 4 since they got them in...

economy or not, the car is fugly and looks like a toyota

VTEC Racer

I don't think you have any idea of what you are talking about. Honda is probably one of the most stable auto manufacturers in the world. They had a net profit of $1.3 billion for the second quarter of this year. That is actually a 44% decline in profit for Honda. VW's net profit for their second quarter was $1.38 billion. That is with a 16% increase. So really, as down as Honda is right now, their net profit is still within 1 million dollars of VW. Considering how "diverse" VW is, thats not bad at all for Honda when their profit is 44% down and VW's is up by 16%. So as you can see, it will take A LOT for Honda to really be greatly affected by this downturn. At a time when most people are reporting LOSSES, any profit is good profit. Clearly, the fact that they have a profit shows that they are not 100% reliant on American sales. Emerging markets are playing a key role in Honda's growth right now.

Here in the US, the difference in starting price between an MDX and Q7 is less than $1,800. The Lexus LX starts from $76,000. The Q7 starts from $43,000. You could almost buy two Q7's for the price of one LX. Are you really trying to convince yourself that these two cars are competitors? In some aspects, even the MDX is bigger than the Q7. The MDX has more rear legroom, more shoulder room all around, and the front legroom is within .1 inches of the MDX's. You say that the MDX and Q7 have never been in a magazine comparison... what magazine comparison in the US has the Q7 been in?? The Q7 was the latest SUV to the game. Audi joined the SUV march when it was already in the middle of its downturn. So yes, the Q7 hasn't been compared to an MDX in a magazine, but it hasn't been compared to a LX570 either, or ANY other SUV for that matter.

Again, look above. Honda has A LOOOOOOT of money. You do realize that every Acura Honda sells is a cash-cow for them? They are using a the mid-size global platform and that platform is shared A LOT. The cost of the platform has probably been covered 10,000 fold already. I'm pretty sure that the development of the TL didn't cost Honda much considering that everything thats in the car is from already existing technology. Even if the TL just tanks in sales, Honda would still be fine. Look at the RL as a perfect example. I can guarantee you that it was probably extremely expensive to develop. It had several world-firsts technology that was exclusive only to the RL. I'm sure Honda is disappointed with sales, but clearly they are still doing just fine. Before Honda builds a car, they also consider what their position would be if the car is an utter failure. Clearly, the TL has been released knowingly that if it is an utter failure, they will still be in a profitable position. BTW, show me one magazine that considered the MDX to be a minivan. What minivan gives a V6 Cayenne a run for it's money around a track?

VTEC Racer

Again, Honda had a net income of $1.3 billion in it's 2nd quarter and that is with a 44% drop. A large portion of the drop came from the high rise in material costs and the rise in value of the Yen. Do you know how much Honda's sales had slumped by the end of this quarter in the US? 9.9%! Almost exactly the 10% that you are claiming that would cause Honda to suffer a loss. So tell me how a 9.9% drop in sales for the quarter and a net income of $1.3 billion directly translates into a loss.

Nothing you have said here has had any credibility because you have been proven wrong with just about everything.

SSFTSX

Ur making more mistakes.
VW had profit of net profit of $2B per quarter untill september and that without new product blitz and avg Euro rate of 1.5 to dollar.
Now avg euro rat is 1.27 after September.
Honda Profits is representing past performnance where fuel efficient cars were in demand. Just wait untill this quarter and next quarter. Honda will survive but it will not have the scale of money to creat next generation platforms. VW already had.


Try to load V8 4.2 Prestige Q7 with all options and see where you ends up. and ur comparing it with 5.7 L Lexus. I can also bring V10/V12 Q7.


Think a little critically. When Honda has alot of money what it produced? what will happen when it starts making losses.what kind of cars to u expect from them?
Do you think it will end up like Nissan to be rescued by French or Mazda/Suzuki. Japanese economic systems does not allow sustain losses. I think you havent observe demographic of MDX.

VTEC Racer

How does having a pickup/truck/bus/van and large capacity engines make Nissan and Toyota "much more diversified" than Honda? Those are all tied into the automotive industry, which utterly sucks right now.

Diversity is having your feet in more than one pond. Honda has their feet in several. Toyota and maybe Nissan have their feet in a couple.

Lets see what Honda has:

ATVs
Engines
HondaJet
Home Energy
Generators
Lawnmowers
Tillers
Trimmers
Motorcycles
Outboard Motors
Personal Watercraft
Pumps
Scooters
Snowblowers
ASIMO Robot

Can you honestly tell me by looking at that list that Toyota and Nissan are more diversified companies compared to Honda?

VTEC Racer

VTEC Racer

If you go to www.audi.com, you can see for yourself that Audi is offering 0.9% financing on the 2009 A4. They are also offering a lease-deal where you can drive one off the lot with not a penny out of your pocket. It is VW's Sign Then Drive event for Audi, only they aren't calling it that.

MMike1981

HONDA MAKES A F'ING JET!!!!!!

wait, they arent diversified lol, o they also make that little robot that is basically a human...what a very narrow minded company.