Greeting forum! I am considering the TL SH-AWD 6MT and am cross shopping it with the Audi A4 6MT and perhaps the upcoming Regal GS.

I test drove a '12 6MT earlier this week and I came away mostly impressed.

The exterior looks much better in person, but nobody would call it groundbreaking, unique or expressive. It certainly won't offend anyone either.

The interior felt much more open and roomy than the A4 I drove, which is to be expected, given the size difference. This was especially true in the rear passenger area. The trunk wasn't huge (smaller than my current Maxima), about the same size as the A4. Of course the A4 has the advantage of folding rear seats. But it was big enough for my purposes.

The transmission was typical Honda perfection. Light feeling clutch, although it did take me a bit longer than the A4 to get used to because of the rather abrupt engagement point. The shifter was easy to run through the gears, so much so that I found myself up-shifting and down-shifting just for the hell of it.

The power was more than adequate and easily moved around the TL's not-inconsequential mass. However, that mass really never made its presence known during my drive. It felt just as light on its feet as my Maxima or the A4 I drove, relatively speaking, since none of these cars are lightweights.

The suspension was compliant and more than capable of delivering on any request I made of it during my suburban test drive. I took one corner deliberately hard, in an effort to induce some imbalance and understeer and the TL just pulled itself around the turn. Yes, the SH-AWD works as advertised!

The tires, on the other hand, simply couldn't keep up. Why Acura took away the option of summer tires on the 6MT is a question I came away with. I can only imagine that the take rate on them was even lower than the minimal take rate on the 6MT itself. Going around that corner, the tires squealed in protest and on an aggressive 1st to 2nd upshift, I was able to chirp the tires (on an AWD car?). Summer tires would most certainly benefit the engine and suspension capabilities of the TL and it would be an upgrade I would have to make immediately.

Inside I didn't notice much wind or tire noise, but I didn't really go fast enough to know for sure. The seats were plenty comfortable, but I found the anti-whiplash headrests a bit intrusive. Interior materials were a mixed bag. The leather felt to be of premium quality, especially on the steering wheel. However, most of the interior plastics, especially on the lower instrument panel felt out of place in a car with a $43K+ sticker price. Certainly no better than my Maxima and I the A4 definitely has the edge here.

I did wish there was more interior storage, specifically, someplace to put my phone. There is a retractable cubby hole in the center armrest, but it is not something I could use while the phone is plugged into 12V power. As it stands, my phone would have to go in the cupholder.

I have also driven the G37 6MT and found the transmission unbearable (among other issues I had with the car). The TL certainly has the speed advantage over the A4, but if I got the A4, I would be doing an ECU upgrade to help mitigate that issue. The A4 I would get would have the sport package, which includes summer tires. So while I would have to pay for the ECU upgrade on the A4, I would also have to pay for summer tires on the TL.

I will be leasing and right now the A4 comes out about $20/mo less expensive (plus about $30/mo cheaper in gas consumption) than the TL. This would be an A4 Premium Plus with the sport package, advance key, and Bang & Olufsen stereo. It would not have navi (or a backup camera, which I do value), but I can use the navigation on my phone when needed.

Did anyone cross-shop the A4 with the TL and, if so, what were your reasons for going with the TL?

Thanks!

 

Sounds like you have a good handle on the cars you've considered.

I gave the A4 some initial consideration because it was offered with a 6MT and I've liked Audi's recent interiors a lot (although they seemed to have slipped a bit in material/design quality the last couple of years). But in the end, I was highly doubtful about Audi's reliability and so didn't include the car among my finalists. The 2.0T 4 cylinder in the A4 has been showing up with a rash of problems, some of which are pretty serious/expensive to repair. I've already posted about a good friend whose A4 was discovered to be seriously leaking oil while it was in for minor body work. It turned out to be the cam follower/fuel pump drive (google it, common issue). He was out 3K for a new camshaft, fuel pump (or drive), etc. His car had less than 30K miles. Unclear yet whether Audi will take care of it. I just find that unacceptable for a 40K+ car.

So at the end of the day my final options were G37S (6MT) and the TL. I chose the latter for many of the same reasons you mention plus the fact that Infiniti dealers in my area didn't seem very interested in obtaining a 6MT for me.

Good luck with your decision.

 

I am all-too familiar with that issue! My wife had an '07 A4 that would go through a quart of synthetic every 1K miles. Dealer said it was normal but, as you have mentioned, the 2.0T had known issues with the cam follower and oil consumption. It was one of the reasons we didn't replace her car with another Audi.

However, I understand that the new TFSI 2.0T doesn't have these same issues.

One thing I am not thrilled with is the notion that I have to have the differential fluid replaced every 15K miles on the TL. Audi offers their pre-paid maintenance plan that is essentially free when you lease (because it ups the residual value by 1%, covering the cost). So it looks like my maintenance costs will be higher with the TL too.

 

Sorry to hear of your first-hand A4 experience. I don't have any information on the newer 2.0Ts so perhaps they've figured it out since I made my purchase decision.

Regarding the diff fluid change, my dealer gave me a service credit when I bought the car that essentially gives me free oil/fluid changes for the first 4 years. You might try negotiating something like that into your deal if you go the TL route.

 

The maintenance cost isn't a deal-breaker, just something to keep in mind, I guess.

 

I test drove an A4 and TL too. I wasn't all that impressed with the Audi personally. I preferred the look of the TL on the outside because the A4 IMHO is kind of boring other than those LED headlights. The TL stands out a lot more compared to most other cars in a parking lot and the Audi styling kind of looked "camery-ish".

The interior of the TL felt much more refined, and above all, the tech in the TL is WAY better and much more refined. The sound system of the TL is amazing (the best stock one I heard), the NAV is great also with some of the best practical options you can get. The icing on the cake to me was the connectivity: 1 dedicated ipod port, 1 audio input, bluetooth audio (I love streaming Pandora from my phone), phone contact import,...

Gas Mileage for the A4 was much better and for the size of the car, it felt "roomy" enough. Audi reliability to me was also spotty, so in the end, the TL won me over and I have never regretted it yet!

 

i'm in a similiar boat for cars i've cross-shopped, did you happen to test drive the S4? now THAT car is a beast.

 

I have not test driven one...didn't wanted to be tempted. Plus, it is pretty much out of my price range and $100/mo more than the A4 or TL. I wish I could justify the added cost!

 

In 5 years, the $40,000 TL will be fetch $25,000+ and the $50,000 Audi will fetch $20,000 from stealership "certified" lots. The Audi will be on (insert major electrical component here) number 2 or 3 with various rattles, pops, and throttle hesitation from turbo wear.

The Acura will be on it's second set of tires, brakes, and may have a rattle or two - possibly needing a near future timing belt/water pump change out if not already done.

 

The sound system for the TL is rated the best in it's class by MSN Auto:

As for exterior style, I find the TL very groundbreaking and unique compared to the other sedans out there. .. but, it's an eye of the beholder case

 

Addressing some of the OPs concerns about the TL:

1) I usually place my phone on the cupholder cover once it's been covered about halfway, so that solves that issue for me.

2) The headrests issue you've mentioned bothers the wife more than myself as I do not rest my head on it while driving, but you could try negotiating a headrest swap with that of the RL. Sat in an 08 RL and the headrests were super comfortable. Other members here have swapped out the headrest for an older gen TL or even an Accord.

For me, the positives far outweigh the negatives and hence I own one.

 

Yep, been reading a bit about dealing with the headrests. Seems like turning them around could be a solution too.

It is funny, reading this thread would have me believe that I have no business comparing the A4 to the SH-AWD since the TL is always compared to the S5.

Still, I did find some valuable information in that thread, including the fact that the SH-AWD system really is superior when it comes to handling vs the more basic system on the A4.

 

Every Audi that me and my immediate family has owned has needed constant maintenance. There have been 9 between the 5 of us. Every month my S4 was in the dealership for a couple of issues so I was on a first name basis with the service department. I traded in my 2002 S4 for my 06 TL and I have almost forgotten what a check engine light looks like... it has been 5 years since I have seen one

 

My mother in law's 2010 A4 is consuming oil at about the same rate and the dealership has been saying it's normal. That by itself rules out Audi for me.

 

There was a thread in this 4G forum also about the SH-AWD's 3.7L-V6 consuming oil as well, although not as severe.

 

It depends what you are looking for. For me, the A4 just has a tremendous amount of disadvantages for what I was looking for in a car priced and equipped very similarly. You will get a lot of these types of answers here because ultimately most of us chose the TL over the A/S4 for our own reasons, so keep that in mind. The only major more objective advantages I can give the A4 are the split fold seats, a splash or two of more soft touch materials here and there, better fuel economy, and on the more subjective side, a less controversial design.

To some, those are high priority areas but to me, they were not worth sacrificing the extra size, space, and comfort, torque vectoring AWD, larger more powerful engine and overall performance in factory form, and superior reliability, at least statistically speaking. These are higher priority aspects in my case and most others here.

There are a lot of little more in depth areas as well that trade off for the most part but I still give the edge to the TL but mostly by way of personal preference. Things like BT audio, multiple sound inputs that are also conveniently located, ELS stereo with 5.1 "discrete" playback, more voice control abilities, XM weather, Zagat incorporation, Acuralink, leather pockets for the rear of seats, full TPMS readout, larger navi/function display with more intuitive and attractive interfaces IMO, telephone numbers for it's navi database and integration with BT phone. Floor mat embroidering and stitching on the door materials, also a flat screw clamp vs a pointy clip for the floor mats and so on and so forth.

A lot of small and perhaps somewhat insignificant and/or nit-picky things that you might want to weigh out and before this starts a flame war, the Audi has it's fair share of these types of things as well like faster iPod scrolling, DVD movie playback while parked, music HD storage that doesn't have to burned from CD's, SD slots, 3D graphics navi display, etc, etc.

As far as charging the phone and it's storage, you can charge it off of the USB slot in the storage bin and still keep it in the sliding tray. Also, the head restraints can be reversed as designed and you can get a great set of Toyo summer tires for cheap. The decision is yours but based on the 6MT and summer tire emphasis, it leads me to believe your way more on the enthusiast side of things and it's kind of a no-brainer the TL fits that bill better than the A4. The S4 is another discussion altogether though.

The 6MT and SH with torque vectoring combo is extremely capable and massively enjoyable. It just fits and works so well together and it's a very rare combo to get in any car in general. Usually you have to spend way more to get something that rivals that. If you do decide on the A4, I would go for the prestige and it is a more favorable comparison to an SH tech. Good luck with your decision and if you have any questions or need more info regarding the TL, feel free to ask.

 

Out of the three cars you mention, TL will be trhe most reliable.
You will have reliablity/repair issues with the Audi and that can get expensive.
The Regal GS will be a new model and I personally never buy the first year of a new design and GM still has a long way to go in the reliability dept. as well.
If you are going to buy, go for the TL. If you are going to lease go for the Adi or Regal.

 

I test drove the TL AWD Tech, G37, and A4. The A4 looked great from the outside with alot of LED lights on the front that everybody notices and back, with that being said thats all I remeber about the Audi. The G37 was small inside and drove rough, and the inside seemed cheap to me especially with some of the color combos they have just like Audi. The TL's interior is best in class and the exterior is awesome except for the beak in the front which grows on u. Buy the TL!!

 

i agree that the interior of the G37 seemed cheap, that car just doesn't get me excited in anyway for some reason.

 

I'm also on the verge of vehicle purchase. I have LONG drooled over the TL since driving a SH-AWD one last summer. I have been heavily leaning towards the Acura until recently. I test drove a '10 Lexus IS250 AWD last weekend and was pleasantly surprised. I know the car is significantly under powered, especially compared to the TL. But, with just 204 hp and the 6 spd autostick, it was really fun. I'm drawn to a few options the Lexus has...but mostly I REALLY enjoy using the gear shift (in the automatic) to shift as I am very uninterested in the shift paddles. I don't want to drive a manual in start and go traffic here in NY and the autostick is the next best thing, for me anyway. I was upset when Acura took this option away and left the car with just the paddle shifters. I'm in no position to purchase a new car, so this will be a CPO purchase. I've found similar pricing for both the AWD TL & AWD IS250. I'm not sure anyone has been behind the wheel of the Lexus, but I unpleasantly discovered a huge hump in the floor, from the transmission I suppose, that nearly pushes right up against my right leg while driving. Not sure how I would deal with this on a long trip. I've owned 3 Acura's previously and my wife has an '08 TSX I got her for Christmas last year. I love this brand and feel like I'm "cheating" by looking at other vehicles. Reading all the responses in this post, though, has been very enlightening and may have helped sway me back to this side.

 

Fine if you like your TL, but giving bogus information to shappy isn't helpful.

The TL is a fine car, no need to mislead. Here are current/verifiable numbers which will apparently shock you:

2011 projected residual values (%) from ALG, after 2,3,4,5 years:

Acura TL SH-AWD: 65, 57, 50, 43
Audi A4 Prem+: 69, 58, 48, 39
Infiniti G37S: 62, 54, 47, 39

Reliability data from truecar.com (repair trips per 100 vehicles):

2010 Acura TL: 47
2010 Audi A4: 28
2011 Audi A4: 31
2010 Inf. G37: 20
2011 Inf. G37: 37

 

Yes, I did, back in 2009 before I bought my 2010 6-6 SH-AWD.

Although I liked the A4, the Acura had a better satisfaction rating and rate of repairs, and I would have had to have spent thousands more on the A4 to get everything that the TL offered as standard equipment (SH-AWD 6-6 Tech).

There has been a generational change in the A4 and A6 since then, however, and I hear very nice things about them.

Remember that whatever Audi you are buying must have the Sports Differential option in order to be competitive with the TL SH-AWD. In one of those cars, either the A4 or A6, you can't even get the Sports Differential any longer, an enthusiast told me.

I was surprised he had the Regal in his shopping list, to be honest. It's a completely different idea automobile, and it shows up in strange places, like the rear suspension design.

 

Being a newb here, I didn't want to be the one to call him out on that info.

This is something that I am beginning to realize, that the TL's AWD system is much more advanced than the one in the A4 and is easily the equal of the one in the more expensive S4 (assuming you get the optional $1100 sport rear diff package).

I have to say, the TL is quickly becoming the object of my attention, simply because of its AWD system and the amazing handling it bestows upon it.

The Regal GS, while FWD, is actually an excellent handler and has top-flight brakes. Yes, it is not nearly as fast as the TL, but it is the equal of the A4, in that respect. Plus, it does have a significant price advantage.

The irony is that it is a car from an American company, but it is built out of the country (Canada), while a car from a Japanese company is built here in the US (TL).

 

dear shappy --

based upon the cars you are looking at and what i believe is your criteria, if you were willing to wait for the gs (its not on lots yet, right?), you owe it to yourself to wait for a test drive of the subaru legacy gt. the supply is not there right now but believe the 2012's will begin to find their way dealers soon.

its interior will not be quite on par with tl or a4, but still very nice and can get nav and backup camera to boot for about $12-$13k less. its reliability is easily on par with the tl, and it is more fun to drive than the a4 (with much more power and less weight). it also arguably has the simplest and yet the best awd of the three. it only comes with 6mt.
subaru does not have the panache of the other two but a loyal following nonetheless (with great aftermarket support) and a reverence in certain parts of the country due to its awd capabilities. i'm sure some will say its boring looking, blah, blah, blah, but the tl has not been universally praised for its looks in recent years and the a4 is certainly no headturner. just my 2 cents, fwiw

 

I agree with most of what you have said. However, one important feature missing from the Legacy GT is rear A/C vents. I have my daughter in the car with me 90% of the time I am driving, and here in South Florida, having dedicated rear A/C vents is very desirable. But since I was willing to consider the Infiniti G37 6MT, which deletes the rear A/C vents when you opt for the manual transmission, it would be fair to also consider the Legacy.

But, the other problem is that I am leasing, and running the numbers on a Legacy GT with short shifter, the available audio upgrades and autodim/homelink mirror, a 36 month lease would run me about $466/mo.

For comparison, the TL SH-AWD 6MT would be $540 for the same term (with lots of features and amenities that the Legacy GT wouldn't have, including a far superior stereo, navi and backup camera). An A4 Premium Plus 6MT with the sport suspension, keyless start and B&O stereo would run me $533/mo. Again, with a better stereo and more features than the Legacy GT.

The lease residual value on the Legacy GT (not to be confused with real-world residual values) is only 46%. The TL residual is 57% and the A4 residual is 58%. So even though the Legacy is nearly $10K less expensive and it has a lease rate that is almost 0%, the relatively poor lease residual value results in a lease payment that is not that much less than the TL or A4.

It gets even worse when I take into account the gas mileage difference between the A4 and Legacy GT. Based on the amount and type of driving I do, the A4 would save me $25/mo in gas over the Legacy, so the total monthly payment difference between the two is even less. Not that gas is a huge concern, but when shopping for cars and comparing the costs, I always take into account the total ownership cost (payment, gas, insurance, maintenance, etc).

Since I am willing to pay more to have the "nicer" car, the Legacy would really have to either blow me away on a drive or be so much less to lease that I could justify its less upscale nature.

The funny thing is that I have become so enamored with the AWD system on the TL that, even though it is the most expensive (total ownership cost) I am currently trying to find a dealer willing to get me out of my Maxima and into the TL.

Unfortunately, I think I am going to have to wait a few more months before I am equity neutral in my Maxima and can get out of it without it costing me anything extra.

But I think I am really sold on the TL.

 

Wow, I didn't realize there were THAT many maintenance issues with an Audi. They're always intrigued me, but maybe I should rethink that....

 

I would never own a German car out of warranty. One of the great things about leasing an Audi is that you can get their AudiCare maintenance plan included at no cost, since it raises the residual value by 1%, which essentially covers the actual cost.

So maintenance during the lease is more or less free.

 

Shappy, would you be upgrading the ECU on a leased Audi?

 

Yes, I would, just to get the acceleration performance where I would be satisfied. It wouldn't be to the same level as the TL, but it would be enough to make me happy.

I would go with either APR



234 hp and 333 ft/lbs torque

Cost is about $800.

The other option is a company called StaSIS that offers similar gains, but is installed by the dealer and is covered under their warranty. Cost is about $1500.

If I got the TL, I would want to put summer tires on, which would also run me about $800.

 

I had the APR chip in my s4 an I liked how it allowed you to toggle between programs by holding down the cruise control for a few seconds. It would notify you it was changing programs by blinking the check engine light. When I took the car in for its monthly services at the dealer, I could easily return it to stock settings by holding down my cruise control button.