sonnyboyacura

A coworker and I test drove the MT yesterday and I can't understand how anyone has any issues with shifting it. I previously owned an SI, so maybe they're similiar #shrug...

However, we both drove the car for quite some time after the salesman handed us the keys. It's an amazing car and I wouldn't be able to purchase it with an auto at this point. The AWD system handled anything we threw at it (which wasn't much, lol), the car always feels planted.

The ride was a bit stiff but nothing I didn't expect. I wonder if the seats would soften a bit after being broken in, that would be one nitpick of mine.

axg

> As for the topic, overall this setup has got to be one of the best engineered manuals ever

Everyone has their own tastes, and of course their own experiences, so I can't exactly say you are wrong because it's mostly subjective but ... this is rather a strong statement.

The clutch is an important part of the manual transmission and I don't see anyone at all actually praising it, not in the slightest. Some people don't say bad things (so it's probably fine enough for them); some people say have problems but get used to it eventually; and some people after extended ownership are talking about commissioning replacement clutches and/or are re-engineering the slave cylinder! This thread has complaints about mushiness, strange over-revving, and more.

This isn't "best engineered" in my opinion, it seems more like a problem. And the transmission is a package - the rest being pretty great doesn't absolve weakness in such a key subsystem. I'm not an Acura hater (my TL is a month old bought new for MSRP, and it's my second Acura and my third Honda) but IMO they've damaged up an otherwise good package. I don't know how to give a "best engineered ever" prize for that!. Give me the engineers who gave me my type-R tranny, for instance, they seemed to have their eye on the whole system. Here it seems like they had separate teams, and some got the good engineers but one got the interns.

And: it's not really fair to future buyers to be too uncritical. Nor is it fair to Acura/Honda - how can they thrive without feedback about mistakes.

DannyZRC

axg, you've had the car for a month but pretty early on you had talked yourself into hating it.

Getting used to a new clutch takes time, and driving a car with a much bigger engine smoothly is more difficult on top of things (you said your previous car was an RX-8, something with damn near zero engine braking especially in the lower register).

RPM float that people are complaining about is a fact of life for any modern car, it's a result of meeting emissions regs.

I have a car that has rev float, it has a high and abrupt clutch, I got used to it.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't think you've given yourself enough time to get used to it, and I think that the attitude you've displayed about it is indiciative that you will take longer to get situated than you should.

Once a person forms a negative opinion about something, every little thing will annoy them about it, this has happened for you and it shows in your various posts. The best favor you can do for yourself is to realize this and to try and stop this downward spiral you're suffering.

I say this not to insult you, just to try to persuade you to RELAX and just get used to it.

axg

DannyZRC:
I take your point ... really. And I am trying to moderate both my feelings (certainly not hate, closer to disappointment and annoyance at myself :-) and try to restrict my comments to be informative as to either getting solutions to my concerns or genuinely help people who might fall into the trap I did. Ok, I shoudn't say trap, it was my doing...

But when someone says that this "has got to be one of the best engineered manuals ever" ... ?! Look, if you have the car already, you know whether you love the transmission or not so what does this opinion add? And on the other hand if you do NOT yet have the car, like the original poster who is asking for opinions, why shouldn't I as a new owner warn people that "best engineered" is a pretty idiosyncratic judgement?

I'm very, very, clearly not alone in being an experienced stick shift driver who is somewhat taken aback at what Honda has given here.

My initial comment on this thread was: don't every buy before you try, because there's something a bit unusual going on here and the press reports about how absolutely great the stick shift should not be relied on if you are used to MT elsewhere. This is true. It's a fair warning. It's not even a criticism. I'm saying: this is a bit different, make very sure this car is for you before spending $40K plus. I don't think it's one of the best engineered MT ever, but even if in some theoretical sense it is, people should know it's a _different_ MT than even the most experienced stick driver may be used to or happy with. Try before you buy. The truth is, with current MT availability, there is a really true unarguable reason to buy sight-unseen in this market (I did, and I don't think I was tricked into it; I think they really are that rare in the Western half of the US.) I think I am doing people a service in warning them not to do this, pretty much no matter what. Because there's something a bit unusual - I think bad, but that's taste, but definitely unusual - with this shifter.

saturno_v

I cannot believe someone coming from an STI does not find the TL manual setup a HUGE improvement....my wife's STI has even the optional short throw shifter and it is still light years far away (in a bad way) from my TL 6 Speed.

The STI lever is notchy, not as sharp and precise in gear insertion, and still with longer throws compared to my TL.

This is something my wife always tell me when she drives my car...how much better my shifter is...

winstrolvtec

To be clear, I didn't say "the best" or in what rank among the best or even how many finalist were included but I think you get the picture and it is mostly an opinion as denoted by the "got to be". Sorry if that was not made clearer but then again I only think you are having this response because of your adjustment period and possibly even buyers remorse.

Don't get me wrong, your opinion is just as valid but with only one month's ownership under your belt and what appears to be a curious unfamiliarity with Honda/Acura typical manual setup characteristics, I think it's a bit too premature and unwarranted at this point. Now if you feel this way in six months or a year and have given it it's fair shake, then I would say you may have valid concerns based on your perspective.

With fewer and fewer manual offerings in the entire auto industry and especially in the TL's segment range, with Honda already being considered one of the best manual engineers, it's hard to entirely disagree that it isn't excellent "overall". There is no such thing as perfect only someone's idea of what that is. Perhaps the "ever" part was a bit strong but out of manuals currently available, I think it is not only fair but also appropriate.

I also have driven if not owned all of what some experts would consider Honda's all-stars when it comes to stick shifts and the type R, other than not being as luxury oriented and being attached to SH, is not worlds different. Many of the same people who brought us the type R's, S's, Si's, etc, brought us this product.

I think you may just be dissappointed with manual setup given it's context or application, which happens to be an AWD mid size luxury sedan, you can't necessarily exclude that in any form of comparison, be it only the manual setup or otherwise. I don't expect the same type of shift feel and/or overall manual experience of something like a Nissan 370z in my TL AWD and I don't think it's supposed to work that way. What I feel makes a manual better or worse is how well adapted it is to it's application and perhaps even the typical consumer who drives it.

Undertstandably, it is rather subjective and it is a very opinionated topic, everyone would agree on that but the parts that are not or are the least subjective (at least to me) are the aspects that make it a well reknowned stick shift. The only other issue I have with what you are suggesting is that if it is subjective when it's considered great, why is it also not subjective that you consider it bad or a "mistake"?

That is also rather strong and is suggested with more certainty from your perspective than what I said from mine but I have at least retracted my statement a bit or at least further explained it, so in fairness I feel you should do the same.

winstrolvtec

Oh and Axg, I will add (and hopefully this helps) that my shifter and clutch feel is a lot different today than it was when I intially got the vehicle after putting more miles on the it and fully breaking the components in. More than any other manual I have owned (and they have all been manuals) this tranny seemed to really benefit from more driving time and miles. I don't know why that is but it is pretty well documented in these forums so I am not just saying this, others can probably attest to this.

And yes, there is a 3rd gear issue which has been around some Acura's and Honda's for a while now. Had it in my TLS and it can take a lot away from it but there are fixes and lucky this TL is clear of any issues and hopefully it stays that way and that goes for everyone else as well.

Strosek

When I test drove the MT TL I also experienced the Rev Up syndrome you're describing... I've been driving standard cars for about 20 years and never had this problem. In my opinion I believe what's happening is that you are faster at shifting then the drive by wire is at closing the throttle blade.... It's for this reason the engine revs up as soon as you press the clutch and the load is removed... the throttle isn't quite closed yet! I know I'm talking fractions of a second but in theory it makes sense.
I'm sure you'll be able to adapt your shifting style and get it sorted but I actually preferred the auto which is unusual for me.

Good luck it's a great car

OrlandoM

If you care about gas mileage then its better. If you care about performance you probably wont even reach sixth gear in sports mode. But I think it is a good addition to the car!