I had a talk with a dealer yesterday and got the word (probably opinion) that the 4G TL is going to be replaced in the 2015 MY with a smaller vehicle. When the 5G TL comes out, the TSX will disappear. Idea is that the new TL not compete for the same group which might buy the new RLX.

 

We own a TL and TSX wagon and I wouldn't mind if there was some kind of merging of these two. A wagon with the head room of the big TL with a V6 and the new hybrid SHAWD.

Billy

 

Dealers don't know squat. That being sad if Acura delays the 5G an extra year they will fall further behind. With a new Genesis, Q50, IS CTS and ATS plus the new 3 seres they can not compete with 5 year old models. Hell, they will even loose sales to their own Accord as the Touring Accord is a sweet ride with lots of cool tech the TSX and TL do not have. I also doubt there are that many people that will be swayed from a TLX to and RLX because my guess is with the RLX starting at $49K the TLX will likely top out by then.

 

Not to mention the fact that the 3 SKUs for the new RL, upon release, will all be FWD with AWD "coming later." That's so lame. I can't imagine spending $60K for a FWD car, even if it is the "flagship" model. I don't know how Honda botched that one... Going from one of the best AWD systems out there standard on the flagship to FWD. Really!? Just like how they went from SH-AWD on the RDX to the much less awesome AWD system from the CRV with the 2013 model.

I love Honda, and probably always will.... But it's getting harder to justify spending the $ over the competition when so many bad decisions are being made lately.

 

Acura would probably disagree with you on the "bad decision" with regard to the RDX. It's selling very well. Better than the previous RDX did. The new RDX is a hit.

As for the OP and the 5G coming out as a '15 model, it will make my decision easier. My next car won't be an Acura because I won't be able to wait that long. I'm not even sure I'll be able to wait until the '14 model comes out, but I'm trying to see what they have coming. Right now, every other make is releasing a competing model (KeithL mentioned this already) and they are coming hard with the options.

It remains to be seen about the RLX. I can't say I'm gaga about the design, but then these forums don't seem to always speak for the majority. lol.

 

I agree with KeithL as well....Acura can't afford to wait for the 2015 MY.....My gut feeling tells me that the OP's dealer information is likely inaccurate, not by fault of the OP, just a misinformed staff member. Now if that is indeed the case, I will likely stray away as well. I have a few other models that tickles my fancy at the moment and the segment is loaded with great options....none are perfect but neither is Acura

 

Unless they stray from what they've done in the past, it should come out as a 2014, one year after the intro of the 9th Gen Accord, on which it will be based. I can't see Acura waiting until MY 15 to introduce the new TLX.

 

I was reading an interesting article (can't find it right now) about how the Euro Accord was up in the air and might be delayed. Seeing as it is built on the TSX body I do begin to wonder if Honda/Acura is about to really screw themselves in if they delayed the Euro Accord and the TLX an additional year. I would get a 13 TL AWD Advance, but I really want the updated electronic and really want adaptive cruise control. This is really a very important year for Honda, they can not afford to miss a step because the competition will run right over them.

 

People are still getting less for the same amount of money in terms of the tech that is packed in to the car. Sure it comes with a V6 now, but the trade-off is a less capable AWD system.

Just because people make uninformed decisions doesn't mean that removing features is ever a good decision. I'm sure they'll sell more new RLXs than the old, stale RL upon launch even though they're only FWD too... still lame that what you'd be getting is a $60K Accord with LED headlights that's built in Japan. The nicer interior and the fact that it's built in Japan vs Ohio wouldn't be worth the $30K premium over a similarly spec'd Accord to me... but idiots will buy it just because it's "fancy." Personally, I'd rather buy TWO loaded Accords for the same price.

My point was that these constant compromises are what's ultimately throwing Acura behind the curve vs its competitors. They should moved FORWARD and made SH-AWD system standard on all of their cars and advertised how good it is vs its competitors. Instead we get a wave of new cars (RDX and RLX) that used to have it standard and now don't have it at all (RLX will eventually), and we get Acura commercials starring dumbass Doctor Phil and loudmouth Suzie Orman sliding FWD TLs around Christmas tree farms.

It seems like Acura is spending as much money on their advertising firms now as they are their designers. Infiniti and Toyota are getting really aggressive in this space now - Hell even the new Avalon looks pretty good, and that's a car that I've always hated because it was so vanilla.

I love my TL, I really do. The fact that I could get a real manual transmission in a large sedan is something that is dying trend. I'm glad Acura kept it around at least through the 4G. Honda has killed it from the Accord (the sedan at least), and I'm afraid with this new generation of TL that they're going to kill it there too. I know that the markets dictate what cars get made, but it's still sad.

Ever since the early/mid 2000's it seems that Honda's passion flame has been slowly going out.

 

I have always wondered why someone would pay substantially more for an RL versus a TL given that the specs were almost the same for both cars. So if Acura downsizes and diminishes the TL that would be good news for someone like me that keeps cars a long time since suddenly my 4G TL will be more thought of as being in the RL class.

 

That is my fear, the rumored TLX should be based on 13 Accord and they shrank the Accord. Hopefully they will not compromise on the features and will use the TLX to span what used to be filled by the TSX and TL. I have found that the TL Tech and Advance leather is very nice, but TSX and RDX the leather is not as good, and I bet they will cheap out on the TLX. I just hope they don't dump SH-AWD, but I fear they will dump it or go to the RDX AWD. I have been debating for a while now on whether to jump into a 13 TL Advance AWD or hold out and hope Acura does not screw up. I really want the new Tech that is coming and the adaptive cruise control, but if they pull SH-AWD from the car then I will likely go GS350 or get another M37 as the RL is looking too bland for my tastes, especially at $61K for FWD! Also imagine the SKUs they would need to fill the gap of TSX and TL:

4 cyl base
4 cyl tech
6 cyl base
6 cyl tech
6 cyl advance
6 cyl AWD Advance

Plus there will likely be a hybrid to slot in there. So I suspect at least 6-8 SKUs. Wonder if the Hybrid will come in multiple SKUs.

 

^^ Don't be put off by the "shrinking" of the '13 Accord. The car is big on the inside (maybe even bigger, or bigger feeling than my TL). We bought a new Accord, and the back seat is cavernous for this class, even with front seats all the way back. My 14 year old can stretch out in the back (sitting with legs/feet on the seat cushion) much the way I remember doing so in my dad's old, giant-sized Mercurys.

The more I drive the new Accord (it's my wife's car) the more impressed I am with it. It's really a fine platform and gives great promise for the TLX.

 

I'm very tempted to step into a 12' or 13' advanced TL considering the speculation that the 5G will be smaller. I just don't know if I'd be able to live with keeping a 12' or 13' for 3-4 yrs

 

True they just shrunk the outside, but I also feel with them having to have the TLX fill in for TSX and TL that it will be hard to cover a $15K price spread with one car without some compromises somewhere.

 

Sales manager at my local Acura dealership just returned from a sales conference in Arizona. He tells me the TLX will go on sale as a 2015 model in early 2014. This is similar to the 2014 RLX going on sale in March of this year.

 

So sad as my lease is up in September, so if this hold true the unless they really discount the RLX, I see my next car as a GS350, maybe an Audi or another Infiniti. Just read that next Genesis will also be unveiled at next January's Detroit Auto show. So that would scratch 2 of my options this year.

 

That would suck BIG time but I am starting to think it makes sense given that we have not seen any spy pics. It would be easier for me to get rid of my lease on the spring of 2014. That being said, I am not a big fan of having to wait that long.....Although, this will give me a chance to test the IS, the GS and the Q50 and have them work their quirks. By the spring of 2014, when the TLX comes out, if it looks like crap, I'll just decide which one of the 3 I'll get.

So bottom line...Thank You Acura....you may make it easier for me to walk away if you mess your design

 

Yes, a V6 that gets better mileage than the turbo-4 it replaced in a bigger vehicle. As for the AWD, it's a wonder anybody can survive with "plain ol' AWD". I doubt 5% of the people who bought the SH-AWD version ever exercised it to any appreciable amount. The average person buying it probably doesn't know the difference between SH-AWD, AWD, GOOD LAWD, etc. and probably doesn't care. It's disingenuous to say they removed SH-AWD from the RDX and yet it received no benefits.

The 3G TL sold very well and it was "just" FWD in a sea of RWD competition in the segment. Like I said, the average person buying many of these vehicles don't give a flip. What's really throwing Acura behind the curve is their design and the people they're targeting. Maybe they're just not targeting the same people anymore with all their vehicles and this is something people will have to get used to.

BTW, I think the RLX would sell in droves if the design of the thing was a little better. Who knows, it still may, but I'm not sure.

 

Keith, you can always extend your lease up to another year month-by-month if you decide you like the direction the 5g is headed (should be spy pics at least by then). My lease is up in November and if the 2014 release date holds true I may be doing the same thing.

 

Never thought of that. I may do that then. That would work well actually for me.

 

Look at the HOnda concept C from last years show in China, I'd put my money on it being a disquised TLX..
V6 hybrid SH-AWD with 7 speed DCT = sure winner (if that is indeed what we get)
Honda indicated the concept C would go into production the following year (so 2013 as the show was last year), I would think since the TL and Accord are based off of each other that the new one will be too so since the new Accord just came out then bodes well for a new TLX.. I say late summer?
I'm not sure if anybody knows but there is no Acura in China right? Would explain why it's a Honda show car...

 

Acuras (at least some of them) are sold in China.

 

I posted this in one of the other 5G threads, but :

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/hon...t-c-auto-shows

It basically said this was a design collaboration between the Japanese and Chinese and it will be released in China and slot between an ILX/TSX in terms of size. Acura didn't design it - Honda did. The "C" stands for "cool", "challenge", and "China". Acura also apparently told C&D that they had nothing to do with it.

 

Mendel has already confirmed the TL will be introduced as 2015. We will probally see a 6 month run of MY 14.

 

Maybe the V6 AWD will be an option but based on the RLX and 2014 MDX both coming with FWD base models, so will the TLX.

The Chinese market TSX is built in China.

 

The 3G TL sold well because it was a great looking car. Like it or not people buy cars based on the way they look. The 4G TL is much more "love it or hate it," read: generally offensive, than the 3G was - especially with the "schnozz" before the update. Hence it sold less. I know it drove me away from the brand temporarily.

I didn't say that the new RDX gained zero benefits over the outgoing version, I was simply trying to convey that the fact that they developed this great technology for their flagship brand, and rather than making it standard on all cars they're scaling it back in favor of a less sophisticated version of the technology to save on cost is lame to me. It's not about what the "average driver" can or can't utilize. If that's the case, 90% of the drivers on the road wouldn't need anything more than a FWD sedan with room for a few groceries in the trunk and room for 2.3 children.

Honda can't stand behind people buying its cars based only on reliability anymore. Just about every brand has good reliability now, and almost everyone has a better standard warranty than Honda/Acura. Like I said, I love Honda, but in a market that is HIGHLY competitive, they have to step it up. They can't rest on their laurels anymore. Part of stepping it up isn't replacing the extremely highly regarded AWD system in your luxury brand with either a.) none at all (FWD) or b.) only a slightly enhanced version of an AWD system that came in a $8,000 Honda Civic 25 years ago.

You can argue that nobody NEEDS SH-AWD, but at the same time I could also argue that nobody NEEDS a 12 speaker audio system with Dolby DTS. Nobody NEEDS either of those things, but for $40,000+ of my dollars, you damn sure bet I want it... and if I don't get it from Honda, I'll get it from someone else - and if I'm buying new I'll do it with a longer warranty.

A good example is the new Accord. I was checking one out at a dealer yesterday. It was the "touring" model - and it came with more features than my $43K TL SH-AWD did for $10K less. The only two MAJOR differences - no AWD and no manual. Since the world hates manuals now, the only REAL difference is no AWD. Even compared to a current model FWD TL - same price, more features. Like you said, nobody really "NEEDS" SH-AWD... so why would anyone buy a FWD TL over the Accord? The badge? Personally I'd rather have more features for the same money with VERY similar interior build qualities (I actually thought that Accord Touring had a nicer interior than the 4G TL).

As far as the RL goes - I don't think they're going to sell very many of the new RL's at all beyond the initial "hey check this out, it's new!" sales. Anyone spending $60K on a car isn't going to want a FWD V6 sedan when there are SO many of the same things available from other competitors for half the cost. RWD snobs will shun it because it's FWD. Displacement snobs will shun it because it's a 60K car with a mid-sized V6 in it vs a V8 or FI-V6. Badge snobs will shun it because the Acura badge still isn't as prestigious as Lexus or as a German brand. The type of people that are willing to go drop $60K on a new car care about some or all of those things, like it or not.

And how much wiil the AWD version cost? Especially if they put the hybrid electric AWD system from the NSX in it? $70K? $80K? Once you start getting up in to that range you're in a whole new league of marquees to choose from.

 

I have seen in person the new RLX, and i'm really afraid for the next generation TL. My lease will end in january 2014, and if the design will be the same kind, i think i going back to infiniti

 

I have been waiting for five years for the new gen, so I really hope this is some trick 4g was so ugly I have stuck with my 07 tl-s for 170,000 miles. If I have to I guess I can wait, I still love me car, but it is starting to wear.

 

I have a friend who is a salesman at Acura and was invited to Atlanta to test drive the RLX, he took pictures and video while test driving the RLX and he said its a pretty solid car. While there he asked about the TLX and was told that the car is going to be downsized to the size of the 3G.

 

It's a good thing. Smaller car size = more nimble.

 

The TLX is supposed to be based on the new US Accord platform which is slightly smaller in external dimensions but the interior is still pretty roomy. I just think they can't get it out fast enough. Their competition is already advertising the cars that will compete with the TLX and will be out well before the TLX. Acura needs to step up.

 

Never trust a sales person ;-)

They will do the same thing the Accord did, downsize the exterior while maximizing interior volume. Go to Honda web site and do compare vehicles and load up the Accord Sedan, Acura TL and Acura TSX and you will see the new Accord is on par with the current TL for interior sizes. The car only got smaller on the outside.

 

Actually I do trust him he's my best friend, know the guy for about 25 years, one thing is what Acura says and one thing is what they do but he asked and that's what they told him, On another note he says the RLX felt really good and if the TLX has all the tech and handles as good as the RLX it's going to be an amazing car.

 

Did he mention when it's expected to be out? I keep hearing about a possible September/October release on the forum, but since we haven't even seen a camo'd appearance, I'm starting to wonder.

 

I am guessing if the car is coming in Sept/Oct we will see it in New York Show in April otherwise I suspect they will do the same thing they did with RLX, tease in April, show it in November and ship it in March of 14.

 

I hope that is true but... that would make the RLX OBE except for the SH-SH-AWD version which will be priced through the roof for an Acura.

 

Have the transmission options for the RLX been released? It's been rumored that the ZF 9HP will be adopted by Honda/Acura in 2014, that would definitely be something I'd love to have in the 5G TL.

 

The RLX will have a 6-speed and I thought I read the sport hybrid variant will use a 7-speed.

 

I doubt the TL will have the superior trans

 

I feel the exact same way. I love Honda products, but it seems like they are regressing as opposed to advancing, at least by my standards. I just hope they don't replace SH-AWD on all of their models with the CRV AWD, because I am not sure what I'm going to replace my TL with. It really starts too feel like Honda is starting to be more luxurious and offer more than Acura . I wonder if any of the influential Honda/Acura employees monitor forums like this one and take what we say into consideration when they make their decisions. I realize car enthusiasts are a small percentage of total customers, but we are still out there and want cars that are fun to drive. Thank God for the TL SH-AWD 6-speed MT.