jjsC5

As a percentage, I'll bet the price bump is no more than the 3G to 4G price bump. The GS is actually less money than it's primary competitors - the BMW "5" series and Infiniti M's.

KevTL-S

I just got back from a trip from Dallas as well, and I got 26.5mpg going around 82-85 mph. I got the GS460, and let me tell you it's so fuel efficient.

As far as VTEC Racer, he has no clue about the GS that I am not even going to respond

jasonwdp10

I'll use MSNAUTO as a source since it's the first place that came up that still had the original MSRP


http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...d=2563#trimsel

(1st year of that gen)
1998 GS300 MSRP 36,900
2011 GS350 MSRP 46,100
The base MSRP went up $9,200, or nearly 25%

later year to match TL
2004 GS300 MSRP 38,875
2011 GS350 MSRP 46,100
The base MSRP still went up $7,255, or 18.5%

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/pr...Acura&model=TL

2004 TL Base MSRP 32,650
2012 TL Base MSRP 35,605
The base MSRP went up $2,955, or 9%

So no, not even close, in dollar amount or percentage.

That, IMO, is one of the contributing factors to its (the current gen GS) demise.

It may still cost less than the european brands, but have you looked at it's sales vs it's competition?

Here I got it for you, from Feb 2011:
5 series 4,212 +85.6
E class 4,203 +4%
DTS 1,512 +147.5%
M 1,178 +44.2%
A5 594 +17.2%
MKS 568 -52%
GS 349 -28.5%
RL 168 +28.2%

Thank TSX69 from TOV for the above numbers.

kevTL888

if money is not the issue, definitely the GS. it's a class higher than the TL, it's Japan made rear wheel drive true luxury sport sedan unlike the TL which is made in here, front drive based (yes, even the sh-awd models are based on a front drive platform). if the money is a factor then the best bang for the buck is definitely the fwd TL.

Monte TLS,MAX

Agreed, funny they are comparing the TL to the GS instead of that drab poor selling RL which out to be dropped........Just looking at and feeling the quality of materials in a GS vs TL alone you know that you are in an higher end car, TL has good quality materials but the GS is that much better. Also as JasnonWDP said there are quite a few things on the GS not offered on the TL ........Funny how references to the GS vs the 6th gen Max look similiar trying to see where , I have read and heard many say the current TL has styling clues from the 6th gen Max. Many say they both have that bloated (similiar side profile) and fat rear end look.....Most considering a GS the TL has just not crossed their line of thought but the 5 series Bimmer and Infiniti M has, thats just fact. When you get to this level of car money is way less of factor in a purchase vs the TL's level as these people tend to be well established folks.

MIKEYDRED

If you run down the list, you will also find features that the TL has that the GS doesn't especially in the standard catergory. Each company has a different approach and what they feel is important to their buyers. In terms of a sporty mission, Lexus fails miserably with the GS, however.

Monte TLS,MAX

Actually it was not the same engine at all, they had the same displacement 3.0. The 2nd gen came with an inline 3.0 6cyl, the 06 came with a 3.0 V6 engine.

"More Tech Doesn't Mean More Power
Toyota's new 3.0-liter VVT-i V-6, making its debut in the 2006 Lexus GS, is a high-tech marvel. It replaces the 220-horsepower inline-six of the previous GS 300, with 25 more horses and 10 more pound-feet of torque (to 230). It features direct injection, which means the fuel injectors are placed directly in the combustion chamber for more precise timing based on driving conditions and power demands. Because fuel is injected directly into the cylinder, it absorbs heat as it evaporates, acting like an intercooler. This allows a compression ratio increase from 10.5:1 to 11.5:1, accounting for much of the extra power. NOx regulations in the U.S. prevent the engine from running lean to save fuel, which is another advantage of direct injection in other markets. Throttle is drive-by-wire.

Continuously variable valve timing for intake and exhaust valves provides a wide, flat torque curve in the 3.0 VVT-i"

KevTL-S

Ding ding ding, we got ourselves a winner. I drove the 2004 GS300 for 1 1/2 year, The inline 6 was very smooth, but lacks power. When they changed the engine in 2006, I have already heard about the 3.5 that will come out in the '07. I was like why did Lexus waste R&D like that on the 3.0. Finally, when the 4.6 came out in '08, I just had to get it.

Monte TLS,MAX

Good ?, and it was the only yr and model to use that direct injection 3.0 V6.....weird if you ask me.....lol. They actually had the 3.5 V6 in the 05 Avalon.......Direct Injection is still iffy IMO, but the Lex has not had the issues of the carbon buildup causing all kind of issues as some of the other MFG's that are trying it in recent yrs.

ZCL

Funny seeing this thread as I am thinking about replacing my wife's car and giving her the MDX.

I'm in the boat for a sport sedan and set my budget at $40k. I will not buy something that doesn't have ventilated seats, navi, etc., so the new TL is not in my budget. (It would also need to be the advance model anyway and that's easily mid 40's) So I am stuck comparing pre-12 TL's to the GS and I can't seem to give the win to the TL.

Yes there are some downsides to the GS, i.e. no traffic navi in the 2009 model I am looking at. However its fit and finish seems to be better and it has ventilated seats. I like the power mirrors, as gimmicky as they are.

They are both great performers with AWD and the TL does handle a little better. Let's be honest, neither is a truly amazing performer when you see what the germans offer.

We'll see which way I go but I don't think the TL is winning this battle. (Also owned a 2005 TL Aspec Navi that I sold for the MDX)

winstrolvtec

^I don't think you will have to spend a full $46k on an SH advance, even now you could probably negotiate for around $43k with little trouble and usually with new car financing being cheaper over used (assuming you intend to finance), you could be looking at roughly the same cost. There is the FWD advance if you don't really need or care for the SH, that will save some additional money.

Honestly though the TL SH is an amazing perfomer maybe with exception to straightline acceleration and especially for it's size and weight. The 6MT tested better in braking and handling than the 335i, G37, and S4 on more than one ocassion and those are the smaller, lighter, and faster models, nevermind the larger mid sized sedans like the A6, 5, etc. The 5AT isn't much different than the 6MT in that regard and the new 6AT for 2012 is probably the same.

I am just throwing some bits of info and consideration out there, it's your car and your money, both cars have their pluses and minuses, you should definately go with what you prefer overall.

ZCL

I appreciate the info. I can't imagine Acura knocking nearly 10% off of a loaded TL SHAWD/Advance when it just came out. Hell I had to pull teeth to get them to knock 10% off a brand new MDX Advance at the end of the 2010 model run. On top of that I would have to eat the typical 1-2 year depreciation, something I could avoid with a 2009 model. If the 09-10 TL came with ventilated seats and the advance package, it would make the decision much more challenging.

As far as FWD, my last FWD car was an 05 TL Aspec/Navi. I will never own another FWD car in my life, so AWD is a must. I certainly wouldn't force a car into my budget by removing one of its best attributes.

I will certainly drive the 2012 TL just because I feel I should. If it truly blows me away in comparison I am sure I can bump my budget. I just need a real justification for spending 7-10k more than I plan.

Bearcat94

Post the exact same question on club lexus. Then add the results together.

Let us know how it turns out.

Monte TLS,MAX

Hey Bear I was thinking the same thing, place this thread in 99% most other forums even in another gen here the results of the poll would be very much different no doubt. The TL has been the ugly duckling since 09, the 12 updates help but not a whole lot & keeping it real the first thing that attracts 99% of us to a car is its looks (Interior/drive etc all come secondary). Most other car enthusiasts and forums I have been to/talked with just do not like the 09+ TL. The GS on the other hand has had alot of praise for its design and top notch interior, it has a few faults but its styling is good. The new Jag XF and even the new KIA optima took alot of styling cues from it and both of them look great.

Bearcat94

^^

I was thinking more along the lines of it's an Acura-based site, it'll be biased toward Acura. Just like a Lexus site would be biased toward Lexus.

Monte TLS,MAX

Well based on what 3rd genners and 2nd gen TLers think of the 4th gen TL, I dunno. In the 4th gen forum it will probably prevail, the Lexus guys don't like the new TL over their although they did give the 3rd gen its props. Have seen a few threads on it the past couple years since its inception.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Noticed that a good number of the GS voters are those who are often on this forum bagging on the 4G. Not surprising, I guess.

IMO both nice cars, but with different driving characteristics, purposes and, above all, prices.

cjTL

iTrader: (2)

I was looking at a thread over in clublexus land regarding the 2012 TL. Many, if not most, seemed to like it.

ZCL

I saw some positive reviews, though most did not like the styling. However, any thread I found that compared the TL to the GS saw the TL getting blasted. (as expected)

ZCL

Just for an update.

I drove a 2009 Lexus GS350 awd and liked it. The drive, especially the steering, felt great. Car moved decently for its size.

The tech was disappointing. When I got back into my MDX I felt like I jumped into a car 10 years newer. Didn't love the GS.

Decided to drive a new 2011 TL SH-AWD Tech. ($43k sticker) Liked the tech, drove like crap. I felt the steering was not remotely responsive or tight and the car felt too light. I did not like the dash layout at all. No go.

I decided to try the 2010 Infiniti M35x. Felt quick but the interior was HORRIBLE. I mean dated beyond belief. NOT A CHANCE.

Frustrated I decided to stop at Audi. I drove a 2011 S4 Premium Plus with bonus features. (Rims, trim work, etc.) This thing was amazing. Interior was gorgeous, sound system was fantastic (made the TL look pathetic) and the drive was fantastic. It was exactly what I wanted.

I decided that spending $55k on a new s4 was stupid at this point, but what it showed me was that at $40k there was nothing I wanted to buy. I'll hang my hat and wait for a while. Maybe next year I'll pick up a new s4.

MD-DRIVER

I think the TL more closely compares with the IS then the GS in driving characteristics

VTEC Racer

What changes did they make over the past three years? They got rid of the cassette player. I'm sure they have made changes, but there were no notable changes because I can't think of a single one that makes it relevant to the competition today. I think trying to debate that the GS is a modern car is like beating a dead horse. As you can see even on here, a lot of people think the car is outdated and lacks many features that other cars in it's class and even a class below it have.

VTEC Racer

I guess that goes to show how irrelevant the engine was. I don't know if I would call it a high-tech marvel considering the technology it had yet produced only 5 hp more than the 3.0 liter Honda Accord. Makes me wonder why this "high-tech marvel" was discontinued after only a year.

Monte TLS,MAX

Well "irrellevant" or not it was not the same motor as the previous GS, also there are several higher end cars that V6 Honda Accords etc have rivaled in H.P etc through out the yrs........

jjsC5

I was primarily referring to the engine which was changed about 3 years ago (not sure exactly what year). One of your big bitches was that the engine in the current generation GS was the same as the last generation. What I'm saying is that it was, but isn't any more.

There have been a few other changes as well. The 2010 has an upgraded Nav system. I have no idea whether it's as good as the TL or not, but it is upgraded from previous years.

Monte TLS,MAX

Read my post that VTEC quoted a few post ago, they had the same displacement 3.0 but 2 totally different engines on the 06 GS vs 05 and older. The older ones were inline 6's, the 06 was a new direct injection V6 used for that 1 year only.

VTEC Racer

One of my big bitches? It was in a list of many. It debuted in 2005 with technology that was on par with the rest of the competition, but here we are in 2011 and nothing notably new was added to keep the car current. Does Lexus still force you to stop the car to use the nav system? The point is that the GS is outdated, big time!

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

Also the engine changed in the V-6 and V-8. The car has a 6 speed and gained an 8 speed automatic. The brakes were enlarged. The wheels changed. 303, 340 or 342hp

3 different trims of real wood and semi analine leather Then they brought the first RWD hybrid. They debuted sport parts for it as well, suspension bits and even a Big Brake Kit. Surely there are other things if we went to the website.

But I guess I'm puzzled as the GS is clearly a category higher than the TL. Not sure how that is unchanged or not advanced? Am I missing something?

enbe

The navigation system on the Tech is not a user friendly system; that said, the sound system is great. Should have added a CD changer instead of a single CD player in the dash. The electric motor driven power steering is superior to any of the previous hydraulic systems. The re-styled front is far more pleasant to the 2009 of which I owned, and didn't realize how much I disliked it, until I bought the 2012. In retrospect, may have waited for the 4-wheel drive model in metalic white (not their name); is my only minor regret; however, the Tech TL does feature a 6-speed AT and is nimble and agile enough; compared it to the Hyundai Genesis and preferred the TL in a 15 minute 2 AFC comparison; the ride in the TL was "better" damped felt more controlled with less "harshness"; both were well done; the Genesis's dashboard panel was far more elegant and was more pleasant to the eye, in a quick 2 AFC judgement. After 2 months; it's been a pleasure to own. The smaller iLX had not been introduced at the time or may have gone in that direction; the rear showing camera is well-worth the convenience and ease for backing tasks.
This is my 3rd Acura V-6 and not sure if I would have appreciated a 4 cylinder engine; this one (V-6) has more than any V-6 I've owned; the smoothest power initiation and direct 1:1 acceleration to foot pedal pressure; Acura has done a fine job with that, especially; each time I'm on the road accelerating the car on a slight incline I'm reminded of this.

birdy*feet

Really? You would rather fumble around with changing discs, having to have multiple CDs floating around your vehicle at all times, than have the ability to put a CD in once and have it burn to your car's hard drive, eliminating the need to ever have that disc in your car again???

Anyhow, the 2013 GS is sick -- no two ways about it. I test drive one and damn near walked out minus one TL. I love the new interior styling and the front end is sexy as hell. The only real complaint I have with the new GS is that the rear looks wayyyyy too much like a Hyundai.

012TL-GLM

old thread is old...

birdy*feet

Thread is old for sure -- but Lexus is still currently producing the GS, and I think the 2013 redesign kind of makes this debate a whole new animal.

MyBlackBeauty

I am going to talk numbers as per the Canadian pricing.

A fully loaded Acura TL SH-AWD with every option imaginable is CAD 50,000 whereas a Lexus GS 350 AWD loaded with all options is CAD 85,000.

Acura TL wins on those grounds.

If I were to spend CAD 85,000, I would add another CAD 3000 and get the Loaded Audi A7.

birdy*feet

100% agree.