2012 TL SH-AWD or Lexus 2013 GS350 AWD F Sport
#81
Three Wheelin'
Thanks for the inputs. AWD is a must for me on my next vehicle. We get snow here quite often(although this year has been very grey). I travel to Montreal at least once a month and the road to Montreal can be treacherous in the winter months. The roads in Montreal are not anywhere near as clean in terms of snow removal and treatment. All citizens are required to have snow tires.
I can't wait til February to come so I can test drive the GS and get this over with.
I can't wait til February to come so I can test drive the GS and get this over with.
I said the TL feels more like a sports sedan. I cannot emphasis that enough. You immediately know you are in the sport car of the two. The ride is much stiffer, seats are more confining with lateral support, the steering wheel is thicker, smaller and steering is much more responsive. Keep in mind there are pros and cons to that. For a five hour drive, the attributes that make the TL the sport car of the two also make it less comfortable.
There are a few differences in equipment - such as the fully powered steering wheel in the Lexus. But honestly the difference are not much. The Stereo, navigation and bluetooth functionality in the TL are all better. But I'm expecting the '13 Lexus to have great strides in those areas (and the current Levinson stereo is very good).
You have to decide how much you want a sports sedan versus a luxury sedan. If you don't need the F-Sport package then the prices are going to be closer. If you want the sport packages & AWD and all the goodies then yes, the Lexus might be $15,000 more money. And no, it's probably not worth it from a truly objective standpoint. But not everyone buys cars for strictly objective reasons.
Most folks on these forums are car nuts who factor in purely emotional reasons for buying cars, and if the extra $15,000 is not a strain on our budgets, we often spend stupid money because it's what we do. Heck, why not buy an Accord for $15,000 less if its all about the money and being objective?
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Kenya Graham (11-08-2012)
#82
Suzuka Master
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saturno_v
So the bottom line is you can get the TL discounted. I found your no or little discount statements in the debate interesting since all the TL’s here are going at or below invoice, walking in the door.
This is despite the two dealers, Raleigh/Chapel Hill are 20 miles apart & the next one down the road is 60+ miles away & having no competition.
So the bottom line is you can get the TL discounted. I found your no or little discount statements in the debate interesting since all the TL’s here are going at or below invoice, walking in the door.
This is despite the two dealers, Raleigh/Chapel Hill are 20 miles apart & the next one down the road is 60+ miles away & having no competition.
#83
saturno_v
So the bottom line is you can get the TL discounted. I found your no or little discount statements in the debate interesting since all the TL’s here are going at or below invoice, walking in the door.
This is despite the two dealers, Raleigh/Chapel Hill are 20 miles apart & the next one down the road is 60+ miles away & having no competition.
So the bottom line is you can get the TL discounted. I found your no or little discount statements in the debate interesting since all the TL’s here are going at or below invoice, walking in the door.
This is despite the two dealers, Raleigh/Chapel Hill are 20 miles apart & the next one down the road is 60+ miles away & having no competition.
I always get my car discounted......from any brands and any brands does discount......even BMW have been bought below invoice....and rest assured I would buy one under invoice if I decide to get one...
#84
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^^^^
But the point is you have been stressing that Acura stores will not deal to keep the TL pricing up for the debate.
But the point is you have been stressing that Acura stores will not deal to keep the TL pricing up for the debate.
#85
Yes in my experience (1 car) they were very tought and not willing to negotiate much for a long time which is surprising to me for a vehicle that supposedly does not sell very well...eventually they relented....maybe it is the attitude from Acura dealers in Seattle who knows.....
#86
Suzuka Master
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^^^^
Yeah it must be because even 90210 is below invoice.
Yeah it must be because even 90210 is below invoice.
#87
Drifting
Just saw the road test of the 2013 GS on Motorweek. My take away is, if you feel like "driving" then the TL SH-AWD is the way to go. Motorweek says the GS is improved over the previous version, basically due to improved electronics. "it still falls short of providing the absolute feedback of European and even American rivals" per Motorweek.
#88
WTF^ So Motorweek said, "The TL drives better than the Buick."
God damn, I hope so.
God damn, I hope so.
#89
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I went to a Lexus dealer today and spent quite a bit of time there. Obviously, they don't have the 2013 GS but I did get to talk with the sales guy and his manager on the 2013.
I took the 2011 GS-AWD for a test drive and as expected, ride quality is very very good. First we went on the MA pike(freeway) and with the power mode on, I feel the power is definitely there. Wind noise at highway speed is minimal. Then we went to a narrow and bumpy road in the city and the ride was quite comfortable. Then I went into the parking lot and did some donuts to check out the turning radius. Overall, I was quite impress.
If I were to buy a car just to buy a car and didn't care if I get what I really want or not, I would save quite a bit in the 2011 as they don't have many left and offer steep discount from the sticker to get rid of them. The sticker price on the particular one is $53k(AWD with premium package, park intuitive, and some other small options). A rough negotiating brought down the price to $46K. If I were serious, I probably could've walked out with it for $45K. The problem is, they only have a black and a white one. Both are not my favorite color car. But the deal is pretty appealing.
We then talked about the 2013 GS and the manager gave me the invoice of what's on his radar for February. 2013 GS-AWD with F sport package+cold weather, navigation package, park intuitive, and some small accessories for $58.5K. He said discounting on this one will be very hard. But I'm pretty sure I will be going with this one. Some of the options I like that are only available on the 2013 are
-adaptive variable suspension
-heated steering wheel(I live in cold weather so I do appreciate this)
-windshield wipers de-icer
-and the abundant of tech/gadget on the interior
-and most of all, I like the exterior and interior styling of the 2013 a lot more than the 2011
I took the 2011 GS-AWD for a test drive and as expected, ride quality is very very good. First we went on the MA pike(freeway) and with the power mode on, I feel the power is definitely there. Wind noise at highway speed is minimal. Then we went to a narrow and bumpy road in the city and the ride was quite comfortable. Then I went into the parking lot and did some donuts to check out the turning radius. Overall, I was quite impress.
If I were to buy a car just to buy a car and didn't care if I get what I really want or not, I would save quite a bit in the 2011 as they don't have many left and offer steep discount from the sticker to get rid of them. The sticker price on the particular one is $53k(AWD with premium package, park intuitive, and some other small options). A rough negotiating brought down the price to $46K. If I were serious, I probably could've walked out with it for $45K. The problem is, they only have a black and a white one. Both are not my favorite color car. But the deal is pretty appealing.
We then talked about the 2013 GS and the manager gave me the invoice of what's on his radar for February. 2013 GS-AWD with F sport package+cold weather, navigation package, park intuitive, and some small accessories for $58.5K. He said discounting on this one will be very hard. But I'm pretty sure I will be going with this one. Some of the options I like that are only available on the 2013 are
-adaptive variable suspension
-heated steering wheel(I live in cold weather so I do appreciate this)
-windshield wipers de-icer
-and the abundant of tech/gadget on the interior
-and most of all, I like the exterior and interior styling of the 2013 a lot more than the 2011
Last edited by this is me; 01-14-2012 at 11:04 PM.
#90
Hello everyone,
Long time member here but went off the radar for several years to focus on college and career.
I still have my original first car that was bought in Apr of 2002. The 03 TL-S now have 140K miles with original transmission. Though, I feel like the tranny is on its way out with occasional slip on 1st and 2nd gear. It does not happen all that frequent and I can't duplicate it. I want to trade this in before it completely calls it quit. We do have a 2010 TL in the family and it's quite nice.
The vehicle that I'm really interested in is the 2013 Lexus GS350 AWD F-Sport. However, the 2012 SH-AWD TL is quite stunning as well and it's about $15K cheaper! Obviously, I haven't owned a Lexus and not really sure if it's worth the $15K premium. Anyone with experience with both manufactures? Are Lexus more reliable? I feel like I can get more out of my current 03 TL-S if it's not for the tranny. It's a 10 year-old car but the body and paint is still shiny and can compete with any new car on the road with its look. I just feel like the mechanical parts from Acura can be a little better.
Long time member here but went off the radar for several years to focus on college and career.
I still have my original first car that was bought in Apr of 2002. The 03 TL-S now have 140K miles with original transmission. Though, I feel like the tranny is on its way out with occasional slip on 1st and 2nd gear. It does not happen all that frequent and I can't duplicate it. I want to trade this in before it completely calls it quit. We do have a 2010 TL in the family and it's quite nice.
The vehicle that I'm really interested in is the 2013 Lexus GS350 AWD F-Sport. However, the 2012 SH-AWD TL is quite stunning as well and it's about $15K cheaper! Obviously, I haven't owned a Lexus and not really sure if it's worth the $15K premium. Anyone with experience with both manufactures? Are Lexus more reliable? I feel like I can get more out of my current 03 TL-S if it's not for the tranny. It's a 10 year-old car but the body and paint is still shiny and can compete with any new car on the road with its look. I just feel like the mechanical parts from Acura can be a little better.
#91
Burning Brakes
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The Lexus is a solid choice. Funny that you're in the opposite position I was in a few months ago. I wanted a sportier drive, with great road feedback and handling characteristics. I was in an Avalon Limited (essentially a FWD GS, or as I considered it, a sofa on 4 wheels) and was tired of that numb, dull drive.
When I test drove a GS 350 it was still just too comfortable, if that makes sense, lol.
Since you're coming from a TL to a GS, I'll be curious if you're itching to get back to the sportier feel after a few years. I was in a 2000 SLP GTP before the Avalon and missed that car every day. My '12 TL SH-AWD reminds me a lot of that car, a lot better in many respects, but a similar feel that I'd been missing.
Enjoy your new car!
When I test drove a GS 350 it was still just too comfortable, if that makes sense, lol.
Since you're coming from a TL to a GS, I'll be curious if you're itching to get back to the sportier feel after a few years. I was in a 2000 SLP GTP before the Avalon and missed that car every day. My '12 TL SH-AWD reminds me a lot of that car, a lot better in many respects, but a similar feel that I'd been missing.
Enjoy your new car!
#92
The Sicilian
Lexus vehicles are and always have been a very quiet comfortable car. My mother-in law owned a number of Lexus vehicles and they were just to cushy for me. No road feel at all.
It all boils down to personal preference. Lexus/Toyotas are good quality vehicles. I can attest to that with my 97 4Runner bought new and having 164,000 dependable miles and still running strong.
But for me,it's not what I am looking for in a car so a TL or a Maxima would be more to my liking.
It all boils down to personal preference. Lexus/Toyotas are good quality vehicles. I can attest to that with my 97 4Runner bought new and having 164,000 dependable miles and still running strong.
But for me,it's not what I am looking for in a car so a TL or a Maxima would be more to my liking.
#93
Three Wheelin'
Lexus vehicles are and always have been a very quiet comfortable car. My mother-in law owned a number of Lexus vehicles and they were just to cushy for me. No road feel at all.
It all boils down to personal preference. Lexus/Toyotas are good quality vehicles. I can attest to that with my 97 4Runner bought new and having 164,000 dependable miles and still running strong.
But for me,it's not what I am looking for in a car so a TL or a Maxima would be more to my liking.
It all boils down to personal preference. Lexus/Toyotas are good quality vehicles. I can attest to that with my 97 4Runner bought new and having 164,000 dependable miles and still running strong.
But for me,it's not what I am looking for in a car so a TL or a Maxima would be more to my liking.
But I also have a Z06 Corvette that I take out on Sunday mornings and run some backroads that have wide open space to run it through the gears, and I know of some nice twisty roads on my 140 mile round trip ride for a donut and cup of coffee (just got back from doing it this morning).
#94
Burning Brakes
I agree it boils down to personal preference, but a lot of people overlook that is also has a lot to do with where you live and what you use it for. My Lexus is used for commuting around Houston, which is one of the most boring cities to drive in this side of Florida.
But I also have a Z06 Corvette that I take out on Sunday mornings and run some backroads that have wide open space to run it through the gears, and I know of some nice twisty roads on my 140 mile round trip ride for a donut and cup of coffee (just got back from doing it this morning).
But I also have a Z06 Corvette that I take out on Sunday mornings and run some backroads that have wide open space to run it through the gears, and I know of some nice twisty roads on my 140 mile round trip ride for a donut and cup of coffee (just got back from doing it this morning).
On the theme of using it based on where you live, a lot of SUV like vehicles to get through the snow.
However, when I tire of the G I will be ready for a switch based on the current offerings and will not hesitate to get into a luxury sedan like the GS whatever, if that's what I think I want.
#95
Three Wheelin'
Agreed. There are a lot of Z06 in my neck of the woods. But they all go in the garage covered, when there is a cloud in the sky, rain or heaven forbid 2 feet of snow. Useless transportation devices if you ask me.
On the theme of using it based on where you live, a lot of SUV like vehicles to get through the snow.
However, when I tire of the G I will be ready for a switch based on the current offerings and will not hesitate to get into a luxury sedan like the GS whatever, if that's what I think I want.
On the theme of using it based on where you live, a lot of SUV like vehicles to get through the snow.
However, when I tire of the G I will be ready for a switch based on the current offerings and will not hesitate to get into a luxury sedan like the GS whatever, if that's what I think I want.
#96
Burning Brakes
#97
Lexus vehicles are and always have been a very quiet comfortable car. My mother-in law owned a number of Lexus vehicles and they were just to cushy for me. No road feel at all.
It all boils down to personal preference. Lexus/Toyotas are good quality vehicles. I can attest to that with my 97 4Runner bought new and having 164,000 dependable miles and still running strong.
But for me,it's not what I am looking for in a car so a TL or a Maxima would be more to my liking.
It all boils down to personal preference. Lexus/Toyotas are good quality vehicles. I can attest to that with my 97 4Runner bought new and having 164,000 dependable miles and still running strong.
But for me,it's not what I am looking for in a car so a TL or a Maxima would be more to my liking.
#98
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I will get a get a chance to test drive the 2013 GS next Tuesday before the February launch. The Lexus rep is in town to show the sales people and train them on the new GS.
If all goes well, I should be depositing my money on the all new 2013 GS F-Sport.
If all goes well, I should be depositing my money on the all new 2013 GS F-Sport.
#99
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this is me, congrats on choosing the GS. The 2013 is a beast of a contender in the mid-size luxury sport sedan market and I'm sure you'll love it!
#100
Honestly it comes down to personal preference. Both are great buys!!! I love the radical styling of both however in my experience Acura will prevail over Lexus. Acura's are focused more on performance, efficiency, reliability, and "timeless beauty", where as Lexus is more of a cruise around and look good while doing it with the occasional WOT (Wide Open Throttle). I say Acura....you'll get so much more for your money.....amenities that you'll actually use everyday.
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Kenya Graham (11-08-2012)
#101
Safety Car
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I went to a Lexus dealer today and spent quite a bit of time there. Obviously, they don't have the 2013 GS but I did get to talk with the sales guy and his manager on the 2013.
I took the 2011 GS-AWD for a test drive and as expected, ride quality is very very good. First we went on the MA pike(freeway) and with the power mode on, I feel the power is definitely there. Wind noise at highway speed is minimal. Then we went to a narrow and bumpy road in the city and the ride was quite comfortable. Then I went into the parking lot and did some donuts to check out the turning radius. Overall, I was quite impress.
If I were to buy a car just to buy a car and didn't care if I get what I really want or not, I would save quite a bit in the 2011 as they don't have many left and offer steep discount from the sticker to get rid of them. The sticker price on the particular one is $53k(AWD with premium package, park intuitive, and some other small options). A rough negotiating brought down the price to $46K. If I were serious, I probably could've walked out with it for $45K. The problem is, they only have a black and a white one. Both are not my favorite color car. But the deal is pretty appealing.
We then talked about the 2013 GS and the manager gave me the invoice of what's on his radar for February. 2013 GS-AWD with F sport package+cold weather, navigation package, park intuitive, and some small accessories for $58.5K. He said discounting on this one will be very hard. But I'm pretty sure I will be going with this one. Some of the options I like that are only available on the 2013 are
-adaptive variable suspension
-heated steering wheel(I live in cold weather so I do appreciate this)
-windshield wipers de-icer
-and the abundant of tech/gadget on the interior
-and most of all, I like the exterior and interior styling of the 2013 a lot more than the 2011
I took the 2011 GS-AWD for a test drive and as expected, ride quality is very very good. First we went on the MA pike(freeway) and with the power mode on, I feel the power is definitely there. Wind noise at highway speed is minimal. Then we went to a narrow and bumpy road in the city and the ride was quite comfortable. Then I went into the parking lot and did some donuts to check out the turning radius. Overall, I was quite impress.
If I were to buy a car just to buy a car and didn't care if I get what I really want or not, I would save quite a bit in the 2011 as they don't have many left and offer steep discount from the sticker to get rid of them. The sticker price on the particular one is $53k(AWD with premium package, park intuitive, and some other small options). A rough negotiating brought down the price to $46K. If I were serious, I probably could've walked out with it for $45K. The problem is, they only have a black and a white one. Both are not my favorite color car. But the deal is pretty appealing.
We then talked about the 2013 GS and the manager gave me the invoice of what's on his radar for February. 2013 GS-AWD with F sport package+cold weather, navigation package, park intuitive, and some small accessories for $58.5K. He said discounting on this one will be very hard. But I'm pretty sure I will be going with this one. Some of the options I like that are only available on the 2013 are
-adaptive variable suspension
-heated steering wheel(I live in cold weather so I do appreciate this)
-windshield wipers de-icer
-and the abundant of tech/gadget on the interior
-and most of all, I like the exterior and interior styling of the 2013 a lot more than the 2011
Edit: Okay who was the guy who bumped a old thread. lol.
Last edited by pimpin-tl; 06-05-2012 at 07:40 AM.
#102
i'm actually very interested in the GS350. i went and test drove one last week and i was very impressed. they only had one (non-Fsport) available to test drive; but i was able to look at an F-sport (already sold) and IMO it's stunning. it was white with the red leather and it looked great. i drove the "base" car (still has nav, etc) with RWD (i'm in FL, they dont even stock AWD). and IMO it's much more luxurious. from the leather dash, rear sunshade, HUGE screen, rear climate control, and adjustable suspension. also it's insanely quiet; it's definitely a step up in refinement; however it's nowhere as fun to drive as my 6 MT. i also do like the availability of high end options (HUD, night vision, etc). they were also surprisingly open to negotiating on the price; he was willing to sell me the car for $500 over invoice. maybe in a few years, when i hit the big 3-0 and want something a little quieter i'll look into it.
#103
Burning Brakes
Honestly it comes down to personal preference. Both are great buys!!! I love the radical styling of both however in my experience Acura will prevail over Lexus. Acura's are focused more on performance, efficiency, reliability, and "timeless beauty", where as Lexus is more of a cruise around and look good while doing it with the occasional WOT (Wide Open Throttle). I say Acura....you'll get so much more for your money.....amenities that you'll actually use everyday.
#104
Safety Car
i'm actually very interested in the GS350. i went and test drove one last week and i was very impressed. they only had one (non-Fsport) available to test drive; but i was able to look at an F-sport (already sold) and IMO it's stunning. it was white with the red leather and it looked great. i drove the "base" car (still has nav, etc) with RWD (i'm in FL, they dont even stock AWD). and IMO it's much more luxurious. from the leather dash, rear sunshade, HUGE screen, rear climate control, and adjustable suspension. also it's insanely quiet; it's definitely a step up in refinement; however it's nowhere as fun to drive as my 6 MT. i also do like the availability of high end options (HUD, night vision, etc). they were also surprisingly open to negotiating on the price; he was willing to sell me the car for $500 over invoice. maybe in a few years, when i hit the big 3-0 and want something a little quieter i'll look into it.
#108
Intermediate
Interestingly enough those that don't think it is warranted at all are, coincidentally, the ones that just do not like the TL.....it may be that they just dislike the car??
Like our friends g37guy01 and cp3117 that do not even own Acuras as far as I can recall but they are happy posters in the specific 4th gen TL section of the forum.....
Like our friends g37guy01 and cp3117 that do not even own Acuras as far as I can recall but they are happy posters in the specific 4th gen TL section of the forum.....
This comment made my day! LOL
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Kenya Graham (11-08-2012)
#110
I debated the new GS vs. the 6MT TL. In the end I went the Acura route. My wife has owned 2 RX SUV and they were superb...100K + without an issue and the resale was impressive. The GS is excellent in many ways. The engine/tranny are superb and the interior is gorgeous. Handling is solid in F sport. The exterior is OK. The TL is a different car especially in MT. It is far more engaging and handles like a dream especially when pushed really hard (SH-AWD is legit). I can afford any car and thought I would be happier is something with a bit more entertainment behind the wheel. That being said, the GS is excellent and I would take it any day over my previous 5 series.
#112
IMHO:
I owned an '05 TL FWD (Only Option), traded for the '10 SH-AWD TL, crashed it in July and am now leasing a '13 GS 350 F-Sport RWD.
I live in the Austin, TX area where it's summer road conditions 10 months out of the year.
I was bored with the TLs in their styling and handling. The '05 TL had a tendency to understeer in tight turns and the stock Michelin tires sucked on slightly wet surfaces when cornering. I finally settled on Yokohama Avid Envigor tires that performed well and lasted significantly. They are all-season HP tires.
I personally loved the body styling over the latest generation which led me to the dilemma in Nov '10 on what to buy. Options: Audi S4, Acura TL SH-AWD. I had to step up to something over my '05 TL.
Loved the AWD performance and handling thrill of the Audi S4. Much more responsive and overall more powerful (330 HP over 305 HP). Cornering was an adventure in the S4 and you felt and interesting torque in curves at accelerated speeds. The TL SH-AWD at accelerated speeds was stable and clean and rarely misbehaved. It was stable and a little boring.
Crashed the '10 TL SH-AWD, looked at the Audi S4 again but could not find what I liked in a total package for a price that I could work with.
Shopping with a friend who was also in the market for a car went to Lexus who I had ruled out already because I thought all of their cars just LOOKED like glorified Toyotas. Get to the lot and see the GS 350 and GS 350 F-Sport. F-Sport sold me on the spot purely on its aggressive sporty styling. Lexus was more creative in their leasing options in that I was able to get a 20,000 mile / yr lease and put down $11.5K. My terms came out to $600 / mo. which was only $25 / mo. more than my '10 TL.
Styling:
A matter of taste but the car feel bigger than the TL. Wider because of the straight dashboard lines and the huge Navi / information display.
The telescoping wheel assist and seat recessing upon leaving and entering the car are my favorite features. I'm 6'0" 230 lbs, so that helps ease getting in and out.
Outside key lights at night upon sensing you and the keys are near ... very nice. Also on the BMW line.
Blind-spot detection now on the 2013 TL.
Parking assist I use to avoid getting too close and staying away from someone scratching my car.
Overall fit and finish is impressive but the TL is impressive new as well. A matter of taste and color can make a difference. I'd give the F-Sport a slight lead though overall.
Main missing features: no Hard Drive to store CD tracks. If you still have CDs that you don't have in digital form, this forces you to either keep them in the car or make them digital. Nuisance.
Audio control: No control for your center channel. I think the standard audio sounds better in the Acura than in the Lexus standard audio.
Performance:
I mainly drive in Normal Mode but have tried both ECO and Sport+ modes. I would say that I'm generally not impressed with throttle response in any of the modes nor the manual shifting as it is a little sluggish and slow to kick. In downshifting I usually have to try to drop 2 gears before I get a strong response. I'll attribute it to the car being 6 speed as opposed to 5 like the TL. The TL responses a little better to shifting.
Turning: Excellent road contact with the F-Sport. Accelerating through turns is stable and strong even without AWD. Tighter turn radius in the RWD than the AWD too. The stock tires hold awesomely. Haven't really had too much wet to really test but I think I had at least one day. I haven't had oversteer which is more attributed to the stability assist I'm sure. I've tried to keep stability assist off to see if I can get the car to misbehave but keeping that off is not easy.
The only thing that I will say is that a high speeds the F Sport feels a little scary especially on fly-overs. In Central TX we have fast hwy speeds ranging from 65 to 85 MPH. The TL feels more comfortable at higher speeds and that may be to the F Sport's quick response handling.
Overall: Choose the F Sport for its cornering performance while keeping excellent traction. The TL's stock Michelins just don't cut it after 2 months of driving. The TL AWD still has a tendency to understeer. The "Big Car" feel of the F Sport takes away from the sportiness of the car and feels almost too roomy up front. It mentally makes you think the car is going to roll all over the road but it handles better than most as a 4 door sedan.
Also I get better gas mileage on a smaller tank in the Lexus and about $10 less per fill up on the Lexus than the Acura. I fill up about every 4 - 5 days and get about 330 miles per tank. About the same in the TL. They both take premium.
I owned an '05 TL FWD (Only Option), traded for the '10 SH-AWD TL, crashed it in July and am now leasing a '13 GS 350 F-Sport RWD.
I live in the Austin, TX area where it's summer road conditions 10 months out of the year.
I was bored with the TLs in their styling and handling. The '05 TL had a tendency to understeer in tight turns and the stock Michelin tires sucked on slightly wet surfaces when cornering. I finally settled on Yokohama Avid Envigor tires that performed well and lasted significantly. They are all-season HP tires.
I personally loved the body styling over the latest generation which led me to the dilemma in Nov '10 on what to buy. Options: Audi S4, Acura TL SH-AWD. I had to step up to something over my '05 TL.
Loved the AWD performance and handling thrill of the Audi S4. Much more responsive and overall more powerful (330 HP over 305 HP). Cornering was an adventure in the S4 and you felt and interesting torque in curves at accelerated speeds. The TL SH-AWD at accelerated speeds was stable and clean and rarely misbehaved. It was stable and a little boring.
Crashed the '10 TL SH-AWD, looked at the Audi S4 again but could not find what I liked in a total package for a price that I could work with.
Shopping with a friend who was also in the market for a car went to Lexus who I had ruled out already because I thought all of their cars just LOOKED like glorified Toyotas. Get to the lot and see the GS 350 and GS 350 F-Sport. F-Sport sold me on the spot purely on its aggressive sporty styling. Lexus was more creative in their leasing options in that I was able to get a 20,000 mile / yr lease and put down $11.5K. My terms came out to $600 / mo. which was only $25 / mo. more than my '10 TL.
Styling:
A matter of taste but the car feel bigger than the TL. Wider because of the straight dashboard lines and the huge Navi / information display.
The telescoping wheel assist and seat recessing upon leaving and entering the car are my favorite features. I'm 6'0" 230 lbs, so that helps ease getting in and out.
Outside key lights at night upon sensing you and the keys are near ... very nice. Also on the BMW line.
Blind-spot detection now on the 2013 TL.
Parking assist I use to avoid getting too close and staying away from someone scratching my car.
Overall fit and finish is impressive but the TL is impressive new as well. A matter of taste and color can make a difference. I'd give the F-Sport a slight lead though overall.
Main missing features: no Hard Drive to store CD tracks. If you still have CDs that you don't have in digital form, this forces you to either keep them in the car or make them digital. Nuisance.
Audio control: No control for your center channel. I think the standard audio sounds better in the Acura than in the Lexus standard audio.
Performance:
I mainly drive in Normal Mode but have tried both ECO and Sport+ modes. I would say that I'm generally not impressed with throttle response in any of the modes nor the manual shifting as it is a little sluggish and slow to kick. In downshifting I usually have to try to drop 2 gears before I get a strong response. I'll attribute it to the car being 6 speed as opposed to 5 like the TL. The TL responses a little better to shifting.
Turning: Excellent road contact with the F-Sport. Accelerating through turns is stable and strong even without AWD. Tighter turn radius in the RWD than the AWD too. The stock tires hold awesomely. Haven't really had too much wet to really test but I think I had at least one day. I haven't had oversteer which is more attributed to the stability assist I'm sure. I've tried to keep stability assist off to see if I can get the car to misbehave but keeping that off is not easy.
The only thing that I will say is that a high speeds the F Sport feels a little scary especially on fly-overs. In Central TX we have fast hwy speeds ranging from 65 to 85 MPH. The TL feels more comfortable at higher speeds and that may be to the F Sport's quick response handling.
Overall: Choose the F Sport for its cornering performance while keeping excellent traction. The TL's stock Michelins just don't cut it after 2 months of driving. The TL AWD still has a tendency to understeer. The "Big Car" feel of the F Sport takes away from the sportiness of the car and feels almost too roomy up front. It mentally makes you think the car is going to roll all over the road but it handles better than most as a 4 door sedan.
Also I get better gas mileage on a smaller tank in the Lexus and about $10 less per fill up on the Lexus than the Acura. I fill up about every 4 - 5 days and get about 330 miles per tank. About the same in the TL. They both take premium.
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Glashub (11-10-2012)
#113
Burning Brakes
Welcome aboard Kenya, Jesus Christ 11.5k to lease a car sounds a little much. I mean I don't know how deep your pockets run but let's just say(and I would not wish this to anyone) your car gets into an accident you do know that u loose all that money you put down. Anyways enjoy the car the new GS is a beautiful car. I've had my 12 AWD tech advance for about 5 months and got to test out the AWD in the snow and I was just amazed how the car drove in the snow during the northeaster in New York. I think the Tl is a great car for the money specially in AWD form.
#114
TL SH-AWD will be way sportier than a GS.
the GS is more about luxury and comfort. the TL is more about sportiness and luxury is second.
for the money, the TL is the better buy. the Lexus is more prestigious..
what do you care about
test drive them both and get the one you like better that you can afford and feel is the best value for your money.
the GS is more about luxury and comfort. the TL is more about sportiness and luxury is second.
for the money, the TL is the better buy. the Lexus is more prestigious..
what do you care about
test drive them both and get the one you like better that you can afford and feel is the best value for your money.
#116
#117
Moderator
holy shit dude.. 11k must be the biggest down of all time under a lease..
a current lease is only $3800 down and $500 a month for lowest model.. even with the f-sport which adds on nearly 9k still wouldnt beat 11k down and $600 a month
a current lease is only $3800 down and $500 a month for lowest model.. even with the f-sport which adds on nearly 9k still wouldnt beat 11k down and $600 a month
#119
2010 TL AWD 6MT: New King
Holy smokes, I had to read his post again and did a double take. I am not usually a proponent of leases, and would only recommend it if one can lease a vehicle through their business/corporation....
But $11,500 for a lease down payment? Is that right? Wowzers, that's money you won't get back. If I were ever to lease a vehicle, it would definitely be through my corporation, and I would aim to put as little down as possible (as close to near zilch if possible), no matter what vehicle it may be. IMHO.
But $11,500 for a lease down payment? Is that right? Wowzers, that's money you won't get back. If I were ever to lease a vehicle, it would definitely be through my corporation, and I would aim to put as little down as possible (as close to near zilch if possible), no matter what vehicle it may be. IMHO.