Is the 2012 TL SH-AWD Auto REALLY that much slower than the manual ?
11-19-2014, 05:35 PM
#41
Drifting
Thread Starter
My opinion: the OP's question was the wrong question. As many here have suggested, if you like manual, go with the manual. If you prefer AT, go AT. The one second really shouldn't factor into the choice. Shifting happens all the time, whereas 0-60 jumps really shouldn't, unless of course one likes to show off at every red light, in which case the real issue is the likelihood that the people you left behind at the light are probably laughing at you.
Also, the MT on the TL is a really nice MT. At least for me, the throw and clutch feel are pretty good.
Also, the MT on the TL is a really nice MT. At least for me, the throw and clutch feel are pretty good.
03-13-2015, 08:57 AM
#42
10th Gear
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada
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I have to agree with the previous poster here, there absolutely is a technique (aka skill) involved in getting the car to act the way you want it to, using the flappy paddles. For example, in this thread and a few others I have seen people complaining that they cant get the car to stay in 1st gear with the 2012+ sh-awd TL's... well, I have a 2014, and I can keep it in 1st all day if I feel like it. But you have to know HOW to do it.
If anyone is interested i'll post a description of how to do it, and video of my '14 sh-awd doing it...
I figured it out playing around the other day; I had come from a 2005 6MT a-spec TSX, and was getting quite annoyed at the auto in my TL for shifting out of 1st gear constantly, but, there is a way to keep it there..
03-13-2015, 09:36 AM
#44
10th Gear
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Winnipeg, MB Canada
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Ok so... describing it is weird... i'll take a vid when I get home from work ( a long 8 hrs from now) ..
so to downshift into 1st:
be driving in S mode in M2 as slow as possible, now at this point if you click to shift in to M1, you'll just get the '1' flashing at you a few times, basically rejecting your request and the car will stay in M2... so instead, what you do is, accelerate softly (enough that you are actually accelerating, but not enough that the RPM climbs anywhere near the middle of the power band) .. a split second after you start accelerating, click down to M1; the car will go into M1... from here, it will stay in M1 all through the power band.
its subtle, but the key is to be accelerating while driving slowly in 2nd, only then will it go into 1st..
regarding starting off in 1st, and staying there .. i'll have to play around more to see if that's possible, but with my limited time last night I couldn't make that happen
so to downshift into 1st:
be driving in S mode in M2 as slow as possible, now at this point if you click to shift in to M1, you'll just get the '1' flashing at you a few times, basically rejecting your request and the car will stay in M2... so instead, what you do is, accelerate softly (enough that you are actually accelerating, but not enough that the RPM climbs anywhere near the middle of the power band) .. a split second after you start accelerating, click down to M1; the car will go into M1... from here, it will stay in M1 all through the power band.
its subtle, but the key is to be accelerating while driving slowly in 2nd, only then will it go into 1st..
regarding starting off in 1st, and staying there .. i'll have to play around more to see if that's possible, but with my limited time last night I couldn't make that happen
03-13-2015, 10:24 AM
#46
If you read down a bit, it also mentions that the 6MT they tested used high performance tires:
Without the high-performance Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 rubber fitted to our previous test car, we saw a significant drop in skidpad grip and, more important, braking distance. The 2012 TL SH-AWD, with its standard Goodyear Eagle RS-As, only managed 0.86 g on the skidpad and needed 178 feet to stop from 70 mph compared with 0.92 g and an impressive 158 feet on the optional rubber. That’s an easy refresher about the importance of what’s between you and the road.
Without the high-performance Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 rubber fitted to our previous test car, we saw a significant drop in skidpad grip and, more important, braking distance. The 2012 TL SH-AWD, with its standard Goodyear Eagle RS-As, only managed 0.86 g on the skidpad and needed 178 feet to stop from 70 mph compared with 0.92 g and an impressive 158 feet on the optional rubber. That’s an easy refresher about the importance of what’s between you and the road.
No, the 6MT C&D tested had regular tires not the HPT...in fact, their skidpad numbers were worse compared to the 2009 SH-AWD 5 speed auto they tested before with HPT (which did 0-60 in 6 seconds)
03-13-2015, 11:27 AM
#47
Ok so... describing it is weird... i'll take a vid when I get home from work ( a long 8 hrs from now) ..
so to downshift into 1st:
be driving in S mode in M2 as slow as possible, now at this point if you click to shift in to M1, you'll just get the '1' flashing at you a few times, basically rejecting your request and the car will stay in M2... so instead, what you do is, accelerate softly (enough that you are actually accelerating, but not enough that the RPM climbs anywhere near the middle of the power band) .. a split second after you start accelerating, click down to M1; the car will go into M1... from here, it will stay in M1 all through the power band.
its subtle, but the key is to be accelerating while driving slowly in 2nd, only then will it go into 1st..
regarding starting off in 1st, and staying there .. i'll have to play around more to see if that's possible, but with my limited time last night I couldn't make that happen
so to downshift into 1st:
be driving in S mode in M2 as slow as possible, now at this point if you click to shift in to M1, you'll just get the '1' flashing at you a few times, basically rejecting your request and the car will stay in M2... so instead, what you do is, accelerate softly (enough that you are actually accelerating, but not enough that the RPM climbs anywhere near the middle of the power band) .. a split second after you start accelerating, click down to M1; the car will go into M1... from here, it will stay in M1 all through the power band.
its subtle, but the key is to be accelerating while driving slowly in 2nd, only then will it go into 1st..
regarding starting off in 1st, and staying there .. i'll have to play around more to see if that's possible, but with my limited time last night I couldn't make that happen
03-18-2015, 02:09 PM
#48
Instructor
Two weeks ago I flew 1400 miles for my 2013 TL SH-AWD 6-MT, then drove it home through the Utah/Wyoming mountains (incredibly scenic & fun), then Nebraska (got a $25 speeding ticket), Iowa, Illinois and finally the home state of Wisconsin. It was a memorable trip and a great way to start the new car ownership. - Sarah
03-18-2015, 02:59 PM
#49
Two weeks ago I flew 1400 miles for my 2013 TL SH-AWD 6-MT, then drove it home through the Utah/Wyoming mountains (incredibly scenic & fun), then Nebraska (got a $25 speeding ticket), Iowa, Illinois and finally the home state of Wisconsin. It was a memorable trip and a great way to start the new car ownership. - Sarah
$25 speeding ticket?!? Never heard of such a thing. I've never had one under $250
03-19-2015, 04:38 PM
#51
It's odd, C&D says the 2012 manual is 5.2 seconds and the auto is 6.2 :
"Although not as fast as the row-your-own, which took only 5.2 seconds to hit 60 mph, the new auto did the dash in 6.2 seconds..."
"Compared with the five-speed auto, those are improvements of 0.3 second to 60 mph and 0.4 second and 3 mph in the quarter".
When you reference the 2010 article, it says the manual does 5.2 and the auto does 6.0 :
"Snicking off our own gearchanges liberated 0.8 second from the 0-to-60-mph time (5.2 seconds versus 6.0)..."
The first article implies the pre-2012 5 speed auto was doing a 6.5 second 0-60, but the second article shows a 6.0 second time. That's a huge variation.
My impression was the added gear in 2012 really helped close up the gap between the auto and manual. Having 19's would make for worse times due to the added weight. Wouldn't think the tires would matter too much with AWD since traction is not really an issue??
I also understand launching the auto is not actually that easy - it starts in second gear is something I read. I haven't tested it, but would doing a run in "Sport" be better? Sorry if I'm creating misinformation here, I'm just really curious to know!
I would have liked a manual, but I'm fine with the auto I bought considering this is a daily driver.
"Although not as fast as the row-your-own, which took only 5.2 seconds to hit 60 mph, the new auto did the dash in 6.2 seconds..."
"Compared with the five-speed auto, those are improvements of 0.3 second to 60 mph and 0.4 second and 3 mph in the quarter".
When you reference the 2010 article, it says the manual does 5.2 and the auto does 6.0 :
"Snicking off our own gearchanges liberated 0.8 second from the 0-to-60-mph time (5.2 seconds versus 6.0)..."
The first article implies the pre-2012 5 speed auto was doing a 6.5 second 0-60, but the second article shows a 6.0 second time. That's a huge variation.
My impression was the added gear in 2012 really helped close up the gap between the auto and manual. Having 19's would make for worse times due to the added weight. Wouldn't think the tires would matter too much with AWD since traction is not really an issue??
I also understand launching the auto is not actually that easy - it starts in second gear is something I read. I haven't tested it, but would doing a run in "Sport" be better? Sorry if I'm creating misinformation here, I'm just really curious to know!
I would have liked a manual, but I'm fine with the auto I bought considering this is a daily driver.
03-19-2015, 06:21 PM
#52
It's odd, C&D says the 2012 manual is 5.2 seconds and the auto is 6.2 :
"Although not as fast as the row-your-own, which took only 5.2 seconds to hit 60 mph, the new auto did the dash in 6.2 seconds..."
"Compared with the five-speed auto, those are improvements of 0.3 second to 60 mph and 0.4 second and 3 mph in the quarter".
When you reference the 2010 article, it says the manual does 5.2 and the auto does 6.0 :
"Snicking off our own gearchanges liberated 0.8 second from the 0-to-60-mph time (5.2 seconds versus 6.0)..."
The first article implies the pre-2012 5 speed auto was doing a 6.5 second 0-60, but the second article shows a 6.0 second time. That's a huge variation.
My impression was the added gear in 2012 really helped close up the gap between the auto and manual. Having 19's would make for worse times due to the added weight. Wouldn't think the tires would matter too much with AWD since traction is not really an issue??
I also understand launching the auto is not actually that easy - it starts in second gear is something I read. I haven't tested it, but would doing a run in "Sport" be better? Sorry if I'm creating misinformation here, I'm just really curious to know!
I would have liked a manual, but I'm fine with the auto I bought considering this is a daily driver.
"Although not as fast as the row-your-own, which took only 5.2 seconds to hit 60 mph, the new auto did the dash in 6.2 seconds..."
"Compared with the five-speed auto, those are improvements of 0.3 second to 60 mph and 0.4 second and 3 mph in the quarter".
When you reference the 2010 article, it says the manual does 5.2 and the auto does 6.0 :
"Snicking off our own gearchanges liberated 0.8 second from the 0-to-60-mph time (5.2 seconds versus 6.0)..."
The first article implies the pre-2012 5 speed auto was doing a 6.5 second 0-60, but the second article shows a 6.0 second time. That's a huge variation.
My impression was the added gear in 2012 really helped close up the gap between the auto and manual. Having 19's would make for worse times due to the added weight. Wouldn't think the tires would matter too much with AWD since traction is not really an issue??
I also understand launching the auto is not actually that easy - it starts in second gear is something I read. I haven't tested it, but would doing a run in "Sport" be better? Sorry if I'm creating misinformation here, I'm just really curious to know!
I would have liked a manual, but I'm fine with the auto I bought considering this is a daily driver.
I will try to answer some of your questions. Don't put too much emphasis on the 0-60 times,it takes a lot of practice and perfect conditions to duplicate some of the times quoted by magazines, you will notice variations from magazine to magazine. Reaction time is really important.
I wouldn't launch our auto,we already have issues with the torque converter as it is,better to put the car in manual mode and use the paddles for shifting.
Lightweight wheels will improve performance,i did upgrade to 19's but each wheel was around 6lbs lighter than the stock and the rolling diameter was maintained as per stock dimensions.
Yes,the manual is the way to go for better performance,it is faster than the auto.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
Last edited by KarKraze; 03-19-2015 at 06:24 PM.
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levelseventysix (03-20-2015)
03-19-2015, 09:08 PM
#53
It does help, thank you. I'm getting the impression the auto could have been nearly as fast as the manual if it wasn't hobbled to protect the trans/diff. Of course, it could just be geared more aggressively too.
You mention not recommending to launch the auto, then go to say "put the car in manual mode and use the paddles for shifting". How would this go any easier on the transaxle and rear diff? If from zero I go WOT with D vs WOT using S mode with paddle shift, is this not equally is stressful on the parts?
I'm playing with it some to see what throttle works and when S mode with manual shift can be beneficial. I tried a fairly light launch in sport mode starting in 1st gear...it did quick fairly quickly to 2nd by itself, but I wasn't really on it.
It's funny, I've owned a 500 hp RW drive manual and yet I'm still hesitant to pound this car or push it really hard around a corner...I guess that takes time as I've owned it for less than a month.
You mention not recommending to launch the auto, then go to say "put the car in manual mode and use the paddles for shifting". How would this go any easier on the transaxle and rear diff? If from zero I go WOT with D vs WOT using S mode with paddle shift, is this not equally is stressful on the parts?
I'm playing with it some to see what throttle works and when S mode with manual shift can be beneficial. I tried a fairly light launch in sport mode starting in 1st gear...it did quick fairly quickly to 2nd by itself, but I wasn't really on it.
It's funny, I've owned a 500 hp RW drive manual and yet I'm still hesitant to pound this car or push it really hard around a corner...I guess that takes time as I've owned it for less than a month.
03-19-2015, 09:17 PM
#54
I was referring to holding the RPM at around 3k and launching the car from a standstill,that i wouldn't do.
If you have the Sh Awd,don't be afraid to push it around the corner,its where most of the fun can be.
I mostly drive my car in manual mode and find it much more responsive than in auto mode, i also prefer to select when to change the gears and enjoy the 1st and 2nd.
If you have the Sh Awd,don't be afraid to push it around the corner,its where most of the fun can be.
I mostly drive my car in manual mode and find it much more responsive than in auto mode, i also prefer to select when to change the gears and enjoy the 1st and 2nd.
03-19-2015, 09:28 PM
#55
Just bought my 2012 TL-sh-awd "auto" Tech. Very fun car to drive compared to a 2008 ford escape. Thanks for the helpful info on the S mode. Still messing around with it myself. However, i just install the 11225 magnaflow and it is very nice.
03-19-2015, 10:32 PM
#56
I was referring to holding the RPM at around 3k and launching the car from a standstill,that i wouldn't do.
If you have the Sh Awd,don't be afraid to push it around the corner,its where most of the fun can be.
I mostly drive my car in manual mode and find it much more responsive than in auto mode, i also prefer to select when to change the gears and enjoy the 1st and 2nd.
If you have the Sh Awd,don't be afraid to push it around the corner,its where most of the fun can be.
I mostly drive my car in manual mode and find it much more responsive than in auto mode, i also prefer to select when to change the gears and enjoy the 1st and 2nd.
I have also certainly pushed it pretty hard around a corner, but I've not tried a near full throttle run while turning. In my Z, such a move would spin the car around or cause it to drift (no traction control
). I might have to visit an empty lot of test this out to see how it reacts. 
03-20-2015, 10:44 AM
#57
2011 SH-AWD 6MT
How do the 5-60 times compare? That is a more real world indicator because most people don't dump clutches in traffic and tend to roll on smoothly then floor it.
03-20-2015, 10:48 AM
#58
From the car and driver site :
Zero to 60 mph: 6.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 98 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 125 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 178 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.86 g
Acura TL Reviews - Acura TL Price, Photos, and Specs - Car and Driver
Zero to 60 mph: 6.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.4 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.6 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.7 sec @ 98 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 125 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 178 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.86 g
Acura TL Reviews - Acura TL Price, Photos, and Specs - Car and Driver
03-20-2015, 10:54 AM
#59
Huh, can't see a way to modify my posts. Wanted to add that this was on Goodyear Eagle RS-As. When they tested with summer tires, they got much better handling times :
"The 2012 TL SH-AWD, with its standard Goodyear Eagle RS-As, only managed 0.86 g on the skidpad and needed 178 feet to stop from 70 mph compared with 0.92 g and an impressive 158 feet on the optional rubber."
"The 2012 TL SH-AWD, with its standard Goodyear Eagle RS-As, only managed 0.86 g on the skidpad and needed 178 feet to stop from 70 mph compared with 0.92 g and an impressive 158 feet on the optional rubber."
03-20-2015, 11:06 AM
#60
2011 SH-AWD 6MT
2010 Acura TL SH-AWD Manual
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 171 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 171 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
03-20-2015, 02:36 PM
#61
Yes I've read about this technique somewhere else on this forum. Also, once you reset the ECU and do the idle relearn procedure, the car is very peppy! I bought my TL used and it was owned by an old-timer, so I know he didn't drive spirited. After the relearn, I can floor it in sport mode and the car won't automatically shift into 2nd until over 6000rpm.
Ok so... describing it is weird... i'll take a vid when I get home from work ( a long 8 hrs from now) ..
so to downshift into 1st:
be driving in S mode in M2 as slow as possible, now at this point if you click to shift in to M1, you'll just get the '1' flashing at you a few times, basically rejecting your request and the car will stay in M2... so instead, what you do is, accelerate softly (enough that you are actually accelerating, but not enough that the RPM climbs anywhere near the middle of the power band) .. a split second after you start accelerating, click down to M1; the car will go into M1... from here, it will stay in M1 all through the power band.
its subtle, but the key is to be accelerating while driving slowly in 2nd, only then will it go into 1st..
regarding starting off in 1st, and staying there .. i'll have to play around more to see if that's possible, but with my limited time last night I couldn't make that happen
so to downshift into 1st:
be driving in S mode in M2 as slow as possible, now at this point if you click to shift in to M1, you'll just get the '1' flashing at you a few times, basically rejecting your request and the car will stay in M2... so instead, what you do is, accelerate softly (enough that you are actually accelerating, but not enough that the RPM climbs anywhere near the middle of the power band) .. a split second after you start accelerating, click down to M1; the car will go into M1... from here, it will stay in M1 all through the power band.
its subtle, but the key is to be accelerating while driving slowly in 2nd, only then will it go into 1st..
regarding starting off in 1st, and staying there .. i'll have to play around more to see if that's possible, but with my limited time last night I couldn't make that happen
03-23-2015, 08:03 AM
#62
2010 Acura TL SH-AWD Manual
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 171 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.5 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 26.5 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.8 sec @ 101 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 134 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 171 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.88 g
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liquidneon (03-23-2015)
03-23-2015, 08:15 AM
#64
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