This just hit my email box

2022 MDX Frist Drive MT

 

definitely cashing his Genesis check

 

Whatever. Acura is going to sell a metric shiz-ton of these. That digital cluster alone is amazing, let alone the external look. I'm not even an SUV guy and I like the look.

 

Same here, I'm actually shocked by the MT review seems to be the only harsh one I seen so far. The MDX interior and exterior is now on par with the competition. I agree that second and third row should have had power functions but the current access works well in the 3rd generation and power function may have taking away some of the intuitiveness and they can be annoying when you have to hold the button for some.

 

Brings up the beak which has been long gone for a number of years; likely has no problem with the gaudy grill of the GV80.

 

I think he was comparing what is now the second or a mid level MDX with the top level or levels of some of the other brands, which is unfair. I have the two row captains chairs etc that he was talking about in the Chevy but they are not available across the line up.

Need to see what is available on the "S" version.

 

The Advance trim isn’t exactly chopped liver. I do agree that the 2nd row doesn’t look comfortable at all. It’s a glorified bench with a center console remove capability.

Also, I’m starting to see the piano gloss black in the interior could be a huge problem not just for fingerprints but also for sun glare!

 

I see many reviewers still talking about the "Acura beak" with various Acura models over the recent years, but those vehicles don't have one and like you said ... haven't for years.
Pretty silly actually.

 

This is funny, i know it's like , but Acura claims they are performance brand.
TLX, MDX, RDX all of them were faster in previous generation. They improved materials, design and suspension components. But nothing in engine "performance"
Thanks God they did not put turbo 4 in this thing, but they added extra weight with no HP increase. Also, don't like intake manifold design with air filter integrated in to manifold. Sitting in traffic on a hot day there will be more heat soak.
It looks much better and more expensive compared to previous generation. And, if I will survive upcoming economic crisis, will strongly consider MDX as a replacement for aging 2nd gen MDX.

 

New model at first glance seems more upscale than the one it’s replacing. I’m not sure what the MT reviewer expected with a price increase of just $2,400. Perhaps he wasn’t very familiar with the previous generation.

 

This is exactly the purpose of the Type-S trims : improved engine performance.

For those who crave for more engine power can go straight for the TLX-S and MDX-S, and don't even bother looking at the regular "low performance" trims.

 

That was one scathing review by MT. Here is an alternate take.


IMO, one buys Acura for value, not for performance or luxury.

 

Reviewer didn't seem to like Interior, so why would an S-version make a difference with that or the suspension? It was already a high-priced Advance model.

Is that the normal tag-line now ... new TLX or MDX , they are just OK, but wait till you see the S-versions ?

 

Well ...
1. Advance models of both used to be the best models
2. They ARE STILL only version released (still no S-models).
3. Aren't they like $48k and $62k respectively ? Gosh, how much you gotta spend for a nice Acura these days ?

 

Buy some $GME or $DOGE, and you won't have to ask that question.

Back on topic, I think Acura is very competitively priced. I spent $45K on a lightly loaded 328i M-Sport back in 2015! The new models are even more expensive.

 

That's the issue Edward doesn't quite understand. A type-s MDX will probably reach 65-68K if not break 70K.. That's a lot of coin for Acura buyers and those prices are in a dangerous spot for this brand. While I do agree the MDX is a nice upgrade from the previous generation and will sell a ton of these, I just don't see them selling a ton of type-s models.

 

When the 3G "S" came out it had an upgraded interior. Also a heaver suspension. They did not have the adaptable back then. For the TLX-S software, springs, bars, wheels & tires can make a big differences in the handling package.

I have my differences with the TLX more advertising & product positioning but I thought the MT article was more of a hit piece than a fair assessment of the truck.

 

I am comparing apples to apples. New vs OLD. Type- S is not available now and the price will be on another level. Same principle applies to RDX, TLX too. Comparable trims are slower.
My 2012 MDX Tech is faster compared to 2022 MDX Tech. Don't you think there should evolution? I think it should.

 

That's the opportunity cost of keeping the same V6 engine over the years while weight goes up.

For the TLX, Acura probably figured: "We're going to be slower anyway with the previous V6, let's put in a turbo 4 to get some incremental mpg back to at least be somewhat competitive."

 

There are always buyers willing to pay more for faster and higher performance trims of a vehicle, be it the Acura Type-S, or Audi S/RS, or BMW M, or MB AMG.

But don't worry if you don't see them selling a ton of Type-S, S/RS, M, AMG than their respective regular production trims, because the purpose of their existence is never to increase sales counts but solely to boost the brand/model image of the premium automaker.

It gives buyers another choice. Want more power, prepare to pay more for the turbo-V6 Type-S trim. Want to pay less, go with the regular V6 model trims.

If you have been following the history of Acura, you will see that Acura always strives to go upmarket, in terms of brand recognition and product pricing, to the same level as Audi, BMW, Lexus, and MB. So its strategy is to increase its product pricing slowly and gradually, and hope that buyers will start to accustom to the new premium pricing, and slowly bring the brand upmarket.

Rome isn't built in one day. Using Lexus as an example. It was created from nothing 31 years ago, with a pair of bargain priced sedans : ES250 and LS400. People loved them at bargain MSRP, and Lexus gained fame and recognition. Over the years, Lexus became famous and Lexus slowly increase its product pricing. Lexus products are no more bargain priced. The very first $40K LS400 has now become a $80K topped-out LS500. The Lexus brand is now a recognized luxury brand in the US. Even with V8 and RWD hardware, it still takes Lexus 31 years to become what it is today.

 

"you will see that Acura always strives to go upmarket"

As Yoda said, "No try only do" Acura only made one serious announced corporate strategy to make a run at the Germans (First Tier) in their words. Was the 4G model & it failed to establish Acura as a Tier One product and lost 50% of their TL sales volume in the bargain. They went at the time from selling more cars in some months than the 3 series to less cars than the 5 series.

Rome isn't built in one day. Using Lexus as an example. It was created from nothing 31 years ago

IIRC Acura was introduced to the US market in 1986 about 3 years before Lexus was.

The Lexus brand is now a recognized luxury brand in the US.

The Lexus brand is now a recognized luxury brand in 40 countries around the world.

I would think the last guys in the world you would want to compare Honda/Acura marketing to is Toyota/Lexus. Toyota took Yoda's advice & they DID it.

They best be looking over their shoulder because Genesis is the brand most likely to pass them as a dealer network & wider product portfolio is built. They are adding additional car lines like the GV70 compact crossover at 375bhp in 2021/2022. The TLX - TLX-S is going to be pushed from below by the Mazda 6 due to its price points the same way Acura tries to underprice the Tier 1 cars.

The next-generation Mazda 6 is set to go full Bavarian, transitioning to a longitudinal-engine platform with rear-wheel drive and an inline-six. Possible 48volt mild-hybrid like in the new BMW 440i Xdrive. The 6 cylinder engine is a collaboration with Toyota & will show up on some Toyota models the way they did the Supra/Z4 product with BMW

 

The fact that Mazda is willing to work with Toyota shows an "infinite mindset." They realize survival can sometimes mean putting the best product forward by working together.

Acura puttzing around on their own and not asking for help will ultimately lead to their downfall. The leadership is not where it needs to be.

 

1. Are there buyers that are willing to buy M's or AMG's, ect? YES, 100%. But you still haven't answered WHO WILL BUY such a vehicle from Acura? No offense, you're putting Acura against brands that been producing high performance vehicles way longer than Acura has and those buyers you talk about know what they're getting. Acura has one Halo vehicle, the NSX and even that at it's cost barely breaks sales vs the competition. Beautiful, well crafted vehicle but clearly Acura isn't that type of brand to demand such prices for lack luster performance in such "Precision crafted performance" bs they advertise.

2. I have been following Acura since 91 NSX. My parents purchased a new 92 Acura Legend and I became obsessed with the brand and even worked for them. However, my opinion and facts on this brand doesn't change nor lie. They had a tremendous line up and were on top of their game offering best of everything. Performance, luxury, dependable and affordable vehicles. The 2004 TL broke record sells, even beat BMW 3-Series sales. 90's to early 2000's Acura had the BEST vehicles ever produced. Intergra Type-R and 1st gen NSX are selling for absurd amounts. The 3rd gen TL (Correct specs) are also selling for way more than they are worth. All these vehicles are timeless classics where they are still in high demand today. What happened since 2008? Acura produced a bunch of shit boxes and yes that's my opinion and sales flopped. What happened since then? Not only did they drop vehicles from their line up but its taken them over 10 years to catch up and barely at that..

3. IF buyers want more performance they buy the Type-s with a yet unproven engine.. Sure. But again, vs the competition and price point, WHY is what I keep asking you. TLX-S starts in the mid 50's (missing key options and as per Acura "Well-Equipped") to have a drive-terrain hold back the performance for fuel economy and reliability, FWD bias vehicle and lack luster performance. Sure I see plenty of buyers heading over to Acura to drop nearly 60K if not more just to get out performed by it's competition when the difference in cost to get one of those isn't much higher / different.

4. You already lost me at Lexus vs Acura. I'm sorry, Acura isn't Lexus and Lexus has been on top of their game for a long time. They didn't take a back seat like Acura for the last 10 years. Not to throw any salt on those wounds, but Toyota teamed up with BMW in order to make the Supra / Z4 in exchange BMW will get assistance from Toyota in the EV department. Supra sales are incredible and used they still sell nearly the cost they were new. Toyota was known to make performance vehicles but yet they teamed up with BMW to make the supra. Toyota.. to team up with BMW, a company who knows about performance.. What a concept.

5. Let the monthly sales numbers speak for Acura, if the new premium pricing did them any good.

6. My personal opinion after test driving two new TLX's. I still prefer my 2004 TL (6MT, Navi, A-spec) over it. Why? Because the my interior is classy yet timeless (except the navigation) from the design of the dashboard, beautiful gauge cluster, perfect door panels and the incredible seats. The exterior design is one of their best and still looks incredible today which is why it's considered a timeless classic. Offered with a 6MT (LSD) which is unheard of today and truly made it an enthusiast vehicle. Granted my TL is modified and boosted so the new TLX felt slow to me, however they don't feel the same. The new TLX feels artificial, weird exterior proportions and the fit and finish some exterior / interior spots are terrible. Yes, Rome wasn't built over night but Rome kept moving forward, unlike Acura.

Thank you! You are 100% correct which was exactly my point with Edward..

 

The new TLX shouldnt even be able to be compared to a vehicle thats 3 generations old. Acura has barely moved forward since the 3g TL, its crazy!

 

Acura and Lexus were created at about the same time period. But at the launch, Lexus had RWD and V8 hardware ready, which were (and still are) the must-have for recognized luxury auto brands, but Acura didn't.

Even set off with the right foot with V8/RWD hardware, it still takes Lexus 31 years to achieve what it is now - amongst the true luxury BMW and MB auto brands.

Acura noticed this mistake and had almost launched the V8 and the RWD chassis programs 12 years ago, But the world economy meltdown unfortunately killed off its ambitious plan. This results in the Acura brand being limping along and unable to go upmarket all these decades, and continues to be recognized just as a near-luxury auto brand.

But we have to give credit to Acura for being tried so hard all these years to try to go upmarket. However, without the proper V8/RWD hardware for its products, everything is futile.

Now, Genesis has the proper V8/RWD hardware too to become another true luxury auto maker, and has the real potential to become another BMW/Lexus/MB auto brand. Just give it another 15-20 years.

 

I think you are missing the point. Like I said before, the purpose of the Type-S (or similarly S/RS, M, AMG) trim is not to add sales counts. It doesn't matter even if very few customers are buying the car. The existence of the Type-S is to boost the Acura brand and the TLX model images, similar to the slow-selling $157K+ NSX. This is an alternate form of effective marketing to promote the auto brand, which Acura is seriously lacking in. At the end of day, unsold Type-S will be heavily discounted just like the NSX.

Obviously, Acura doesn't have the luxury to create a high-priced Type-S and expect it to sell in large numbers right at the start. But it has to make the 1st step, and this is one that can hopefully gradually pull the Acura brand upmarket. If it doesn't make this 1st step, it will never advance (pun intended). So we have to excuse Acura's 1st meaningful attempt to launch a real high-performance sedan that mimics (even though still fall short of ) the S/RS/M/AMG trims of the luxury auto brands.

Rome wasn't build in a day.

Give Acura more time, even though this generation of Type-S still falls short of the competitors, the future generations of Type-S will continue to improve, and may be able to rival the competitors after a couple more generations of improvement.

But it is always good to see that finally, Acura is starting to release some meaningful high performance (not just cosmetically enhanced like the A-Spec) products that is heading in the right direction, rather than dull products that stagnant the auto brand image.

 

Generally agree with what you are saying about Acura & Genesis. Don't think it will take Genesis anywhere near 15 or 20 years to move to almost peer status with the Germans & Lexus. I also don't give Acura credit for trying harder. The marketing guys & product planners failed bigtime. In most industries they would be long gone. Nobody gets credit for trying hard in business because its not a place for a participation trophy. Yoda gets the Trophy by DOING and the businessman gets an mega bonus.

That said think you are dead wrong about 31 years for Lexus to become a Tier 1 player. Agree the had the right product out of the starting line. The original V8 car was a pure MB knockoff. Almost a line for line copy. In 1990, the first full year of sales, Lexus sold 63,500 cars. They started outselling the Germans very early on. The Germans took back the sales lead in 2011 from Lexus with their SUV products.

Forbes Lexus history

Took this out of the Forbes article about the original car.

"The car met every benchmark originally targeted by Ichiro Suzuki, including a 155 mph top speed, 0.28 coefficient of drag and 58 decibels in the cabin at 60 mph. These numbers eclipsed the equivalent German luxury sedans at the time, while the LS 400’s starting price of $35,000 was approximately 40 percent below the equivalent BMW and Mercedes-Benz price."

These guys are case study items is Business Graduate Schools on how to build a Luxury car brand. Good Product, a Japanese built Mercedes-Benz, first class dealer network, keep quality up, don't get greedy & raise the prices too fast.

BTW the big SUV can run over $100,000.

 

Just curious, not trying to be a smartass. First will say I really like the NSX. Some guys at our cars & coffee have them & they are great rides. I could easily see them as a stand alone specialty cars & would be proud to own one.

BTW when I lived in England the first generation NSX was sold with a HONDA logo on it at my local HONDA dealer in Gerrards Cross.

Now the heretic statement, Acura does not need a halo car like the NSX because I don't believe its had any effect on Acura's sales or prestige.

Was thinking, have done that on occasion, what is the logical connection between the NSX with an English engine & the rest of the product line outside of the logo & valve covers.

 

The design language of all of Honda's interiors have followed the NSX with the new Acuras being the closest (with the drive mode knob which the Hondas lack). IMO, that's pretty cool.

 

Like this car?
When I heard someone say this, I corrected them, because (AFAIK) here in the USA ... it's always been the Acura Integra.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Integra

 

In the 90s all Acuras were just rebadge Hondas. Acura Integra was a Honda Integra, Acura Vigor was a Honda Vigor, Acura Legend was a Honda Legend, and the Acura SLX was a Honda Horizon (which itself was really an Isuzu Trooper).

 

I must agree that the lack of worldwide Acura brand exposure is the Achilles heel for the Acura brand.

Not just the 1st generation NSX, even the current $$$$$ twin-turbo hybrid NSX is sold as 'Honda' NSX in Honda dealerships everywhere else on earth, other than in North America, China, Mexico, and the Middle East. This does no good to the brand image boosting effect of the NSX supercar to the lesser-known Acura brand.

A major oversight in company strategy from Acura indeed,

 

Do they really? How strange.
Seems like they would just keep the Acura badge on it. A lot less work and people would appreciate getting a "real Acura".
But like a lot of things with Honda/Acura branding, I'm sure there is a good reason (I just don't know the whole story).

 

Nobody else outside of North America, China, and some middle eastern countries would even know what an Acura is since Acura doesn’t exist in most of the world. And even in other markets it does exist in, nobody buys them. China is Acura’s third largest market (after the US and CA), and they sold a whopping 10K cars there. For comparison, Lexus sold 200K in China.

 

Most of the guys don't really know what a small producer Acura really is on a global scale. Some cars with mid level sales here that are global players make a lot of cars.

Buick USA sold 162,741 cars in 2020. Buick China sold 926,328 cars in 2020. Biggest year for Buick China was 2016 @ 1,229,804 cars. HONDA is the global brand, Acura for all intents is a USA local brand with a few export markets.

I would expects Acura is on a very tight leash for research, development & localization money. A lot of stuff is trickle up from Honda which typically has its product cycle timing at 2 years before Acura.

The Acura Halo Car
AKA
HONDA UK NSX

 

This thread is so off track....and it's posted in the 2G TLX forum

 

At least it's still talking about Acura. Most of the threads on here usually switch over to BMW or Audi talk.

 

Savagegeese also posted a review, overall pretty positive. Interestingly they also mentioned the garbage Acura marketing behind it, it is not sports influenced. It's just a better daily driver.
They also prefer Quattro to SHAWD

 

hahaha! so true.

 

Jack claimed his mother owned 2 MDX's. If that were true, he must not have been paying attention. When Jack folds the 2nd row to get to the 3rd row, he actually folds the 2nd row flat (which you're not supposed to) and then pushes the button to move the 2nd row forward. With the 2nd row flat down, the opening to get to the 3rd row is much tighter than if he had simply pushed the 2nd row button first.

I would only fold the 2nd row flat if I needed that extra cargo space.