RedOctober

Hi
This week I changed all 4 tires to Brigestone Potenza pole Position. They did balancing and alignment.
Please check the picture and tell me if they did alignment correctly. Thanks!

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Rear Toe should be 0 degrees to .30 degrees not -.08 to .08 according to the FSM.
-.03 no good on left rear
Right Rear Camber makes no sense (-1.0 to -1.06) as the toe remained the same but the camber more negative .6 degrees.
Left Rear (-1.1 to -.5)

As indicated by the red, front camber is out of spec and the front toe should be a range of -.15 to .15 not -.08 to .08

RedOctober

Thank!

I will try to talk to them so they can fix it.

nfnsquared

Turbo,

You have your rear camber and toe specs mixed up. Rear toe spec is .08 to -.08 inches. Rear camber spec is -.5 to -1.5 degrees. All of the specs on their sheet are correct.

As far as the alignment job, not sure why they did what they did:

1. The front was totally in spec to start. Yes, the right toe was at the limit, but in spec. Not sure why they even messed with it....

2. In the rear, the right toe was out. The adjustment brought rear toe into spec, but caused right camber to be slightly out of spec. From what I've seen on these cars, sometimes you have to accept slightly out of spec camber in the rear to keep toe in spec. I think you'll be fine in the rear, but always keep an eye on rear toe with regular alignments (twice a year) with the TL.

RedOctober

Thanks. But should I go there and ask them to fix it?

nfnsquared

I'd leave the rear as is, but ask them why they adjusted the front when it was in spec to begin with.

It may be that rear adjustments affects the front settings and vice versa. I don't know and I'm not an alignment expert.

Will Y.

Wasn't the right toe at 0.08, i.e. way off with a total of 0.05 difference, before the alignment?

If so, that would explain the toe adjustment.

If not, I'm misreading the alignment sheet...

nfnsquared

Right toe before was at 0.08", which is the positive spec limit. The spec is -0.08 to 0.08". At least that's the way I read it...

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

If you look at the rear toe in spec you scanned:
.08 +/-.08 That converts to 0 to +.16 inches or as the FSM state 0 to 30 degrees, not the .08 to -.08 you suggested. No toe in recommended.

On the rear camber I was referring to the movement of the camber from -1.1 to -.5, not the specifications.

nfnsquared

The scan is the specs straight out of the service manual. The toe specs are measured in inches. The actual before and after toe settings on the OPs alignment sheet have a degree sign by the measurement, but I assume that's in error and should be (") inches. Toe in measures the difference between the front of the tires and the back of the tires. I've never seen toe measured in degrees...

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Once again, you’re reading the rear toe specs incorrectly. The toe spec is (.08”) +/- (.08”), so:
.08 + .08 is .16
.08 -.08 is 0
The range is 0 to .16, no toe in specified, so the specs from the alignment shop are incorrect on the rear toe . Can’t really make out the range, but I do see a minus sign (-), so that in itself is incorrect, but it is correct for the front toe.

Degrees are used by most, in fact the 2 Acura dealers in the area use degrees, as do the shops I’m familiar with, but regardless of method of calculation, there is no negative number (toe in) when the rear toe setting specs are viewed as you have suggested (.08 -.08) whether using inches, fraction, mm, or degrees.

Rear Toe Specs:
I used () to make it easier to view:
(2mm) +/- (2 mm) or 0mm to 4 mm
(1/16") +/- (1/16") or 0" to 1/8"
(.08") +/- (.08") or 0" to .16" - This spec is just the conversion/equivalent of 2mm
(0 degrees) +/- (.15 degrees) or 0 degrees to .30 degrees
Also, you can calculate and do the conversion, inches to degrees if you care to.

Just an FYI, Front Toe:
0 +/- 2mm or -2mm to 2mm
0 +/- 1/16 or -1/16 to 1/16
0 degrees +/- .15 degrees or -.15 degrees to .15 degrees

So, the Front can have toe in and be within specs, but not the Rear.

Also, your explanation of toe setting, difference between the front track and rear track, is, let’s say old school and with the more sophisticated modern alignment equipment, the toe is measured off the centerline of the vehicle, that is how each wheel gets it's specific valve.

One can still use pins and a tape to adjust toe, as I've done it with the Jeeps I've owned and found it to be quite accurate as I could maintain the 1/16" toe in I desired. On vehicles with low ground clearance this would be very difficult to obtain the values needed from the midpoint of the tires though.

nfnsquared

OK, now I see the light. I stand corrected on the rear toe specs. They (the alignment shop) do indeed have the incorrect spec for rear toe listed on that sheet and the left rear is indeed out of spec after adjustment, in addition to both front cambers as previously mentioned.

I still disagree you on the front toe specs. They are indeed -2.0 to 2 mm, or -0.8 to 0.8 inches, not -.15 to .15. I'm not sure where you're getting the -.15 to .15 from...

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Degrees:
Just an FYI, Front Toe:
0 +/- 2mm or -2mm to 2mm
0 +/- 1/16 or -1/16 to 1/16
0 degrees +/- .15 degrees or -.15 degrees to .15 degrees