Very annoying vibration issues
04-21-2015, 08:21 PM
#1
Very annoying vibration issues
Alright guys and gals I have an issue I need some help with. Its absolutely driving my crazy and I really need some guidance and thoughts.
The vibration I am referring to seems to be in 2 forms:
1.) This first and more apparent vibration is definitely in the front end and is the same exact sensation as when the original axles were bad but went away when the dealership replaced both original axles with aftermarket replacements. I ran the car by the dealership that replaced the axles and the mechanic went over everything and gave the car a clean bill of health. I can feel it very much in the front of the car, especially while accelerating gently( or full throttle even more so) after up-shifting from 1st to 2nd gear and 2-3k RPM but also while WOT in first and second (even more apparent while turning a corner and giving the car a blip of gas; the front end just shakes back and forth quickly; feels like its coming from the axles and have also felt the pedal assembly while driving barefoot. I am not sure if this is due to the new axles being aftermarket and not of OEM grade? I know this could very well also be the Compliance Bushings and they definitely appear to be worn/starting to develop micro cracking. Don't think its motor mounts because that doesn't really add up in my head anyways maybe it will in yours?
2.) This is hit or miss and I cant seem to put my finger on what might be causing it. 8 out of 10 times, there is a "drone" and shudder when staying at speeds of 50mph+ but it gets worse the faster you go. It's definitely in the steering wheel but also the whole car and seat of my pants. With this comes a "drone" noise which is hard to explain but maybe you know what I am talking about. Its more of a white noise while at high speeds clearly caused from whatever is causing the shuddering. The reason I got brand new Continental DWS tires is because after several hours of process of elimination type stuff, the mechanic and I had determined that the wheels could be bent by way of me in the car on the lift while the wheels spun freely and him using a Bic pen over the outer edge of the rim and it not staying on the pen over the entire revolution of the wheel (lots of curb damage on the edge of the rim on all 4 but fronts definitely worse than others). The next day, the tire shop said although the wheels had curb damage they weren't causing the vibration, it was the tires. 4 new tires later, the vibration still wasn't gone which is when we determined it was the axle assemblies. We started with the drivers side which drastically helped but the passenger side completely took care of the problem.
Other than the above, the shocks are also somewhat "loose" feeling, and right now I am running both OEM originals on the rear with 88k on them, a take-off 26k mile Type-S shock on the front right and the passenger side OEM original on the front drivers side. Are you confused yet? Long story short, after all the new tires were on and I was attempting to get the car aligned to rid the pull to the right (which is still there and really bothers me), the alignment tech that drove my car noticed the shocks felt soft which they definitely do. So rather than dropping a ton of coin on brand new stuff, I found some Type-S take-off's for a good deal on Craigslist. Well, the reason the passenger side 88k mile OEM original shock is back on the driver side is because the Type-S take-off blew (due to my friend and I using a vice grip to hold the shaft of the shock while bolting down the top hat nut instead of using the alan key at the top). This is a temporary fix. At any rate, the reason I am explaining this in detail is because I don't know if maybe, just maybe, the shocks may have something to do with this vibration issue I am dealing with.
If you are still reading by now thank you for putting up with my book of a post. I sincerely and honestly need help and advice with this, as I need to get this fixed soon using the cheapest route possible. I do not have the funds necessary to hand over my car to a shop or dealership why they half-ass trouble shoot the issue as I lose my butt in butt in Benjamins.
In reference to the statement above, I was thinking about the "let's try 1 thing at a time" in order to help weight out some of the causes. I was thinking about starting with the suspension shocks and springs because that needs to be replaced anyways due to the car feeling very sloppy. What are everyone's thoughts on this? Poor plan of attack? Good plan of attack? I definitely want to lower the car anyways, so I figure I could get into the Tein Street Basis and if that didn't rid any of the issues, I could move onto the Compliance Bushings and or new wheels (definitely don't have $$ for new wheels though).
Thanks so much fellow Aziners and looking forward to getting some insightful discussion going about the most efficient way to go about all of this.
Best,
Sean
The vibration I am referring to seems to be in 2 forms:
1.) This first and more apparent vibration is definitely in the front end and is the same exact sensation as when the original axles were bad but went away when the dealership replaced both original axles with aftermarket replacements. I ran the car by the dealership that replaced the axles and the mechanic went over everything and gave the car a clean bill of health. I can feel it very much in the front of the car, especially while accelerating gently( or full throttle even more so) after up-shifting from 1st to 2nd gear and 2-3k RPM but also while WOT in first and second (even more apparent while turning a corner and giving the car a blip of gas; the front end just shakes back and forth quickly; feels like its coming from the axles and have also felt the pedal assembly while driving barefoot. I am not sure if this is due to the new axles being aftermarket and not of OEM grade? I know this could very well also be the Compliance Bushings and they definitely appear to be worn/starting to develop micro cracking. Don't think its motor mounts because that doesn't really add up in my head anyways maybe it will in yours?
2.) This is hit or miss and I cant seem to put my finger on what might be causing it. 8 out of 10 times, there is a "drone" and shudder when staying at speeds of 50mph+ but it gets worse the faster you go. It's definitely in the steering wheel but also the whole car and seat of my pants. With this comes a "drone" noise which is hard to explain but maybe you know what I am talking about. Its more of a white noise while at high speeds clearly caused from whatever is causing the shuddering. The reason I got brand new Continental DWS tires is because after several hours of process of elimination type stuff, the mechanic and I had determined that the wheels could be bent by way of me in the car on the lift while the wheels spun freely and him using a Bic pen over the outer edge of the rim and it not staying on the pen over the entire revolution of the wheel (lots of curb damage on the edge of the rim on all 4 but fronts definitely worse than others). The next day, the tire shop said although the wheels had curb damage they weren't causing the vibration, it was the tires. 4 new tires later, the vibration still wasn't gone which is when we determined it was the axle assemblies. We started with the drivers side which drastically helped but the passenger side completely took care of the problem.
Other than the above, the shocks are also somewhat "loose" feeling, and right now I am running both OEM originals on the rear with 88k on them, a take-off 26k mile Type-S shock on the front right and the passenger side OEM original on the front drivers side. Are you confused yet? Long story short, after all the new tires were on and I was attempting to get the car aligned to rid the pull to the right (which is still there and really bothers me), the alignment tech that drove my car noticed the shocks felt soft which they definitely do. So rather than dropping a ton of coin on brand new stuff, I found some Type-S take-off's for a good deal on Craigslist. Well, the reason the passenger side 88k mile OEM original shock is back on the driver side is because the Type-S take-off blew (due to my friend and I using a vice grip to hold the shaft of the shock while bolting down the top hat nut instead of using the alan key at the top). This is a temporary fix. At any rate, the reason I am explaining this in detail is because I don't know if maybe, just maybe, the shocks may have something to do with this vibration issue I am dealing with.
If you are still reading by now thank you for putting up with my book of a post. I sincerely and honestly need help and advice with this, as I need to get this fixed soon using the cheapest route possible. I do not have the funds necessary to hand over my car to a shop or dealership why they half-ass trouble shoot the issue as I lose my butt in butt in Benjamins.
In reference to the statement above, I was thinking about the "let's try 1 thing at a time" in order to help weight out some of the causes. I was thinking about starting with the suspension shocks and springs because that needs to be replaced anyways due to the car feeling very sloppy. What are everyone's thoughts on this? Poor plan of attack? Good plan of attack? I definitely want to lower the car anyways, so I figure I could get into the Tein Street Basis and if that didn't rid any of the issues, I could move onto the Compliance Bushings and or new wheels (definitely don't have $$ for new wheels though).
Thanks so much fellow Aziners and looking forward to getting some insightful discussion going about the most efficient way to go about all of this.
Best,
Sean
04-21-2015, 10:54 PM
#2
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Fantastic post about a crappy situation, Sean! Thanks for providing so much information.
I can't say that replacing the shocks will solve your issues, but that's what I would do before anything else. Also, ensure that your bushings are in good standing and don't need to be replaced.
What are your alignment specs?
I can't say that replacing the shocks will solve your issues, but that's what I would do before anything else. Also, ensure that your bushings are in good standing and don't need to be replaced.
What are your alignment specs?
The following users liked this post:
Freefallin06 (04-21-2015)
04-21-2015, 11:28 PM
#3
Fantastic post about a crappy situation, Sean! Thanks for providing so much information.
I can't say that replacing the shocks will solve your issues, but that's what I would do before anything else. Also, ensure that your bushings are in good standing and don't need to be replaced.
What are your alignment specs?
I can't say that replacing the shocks will solve your issues, but that's what I would do before anything else. Also, ensure that your bushings are in good standing and don't need to be replaced.
What are your alignment specs?
The front tires are as follows:
Caster
Left = 3.9*
Right = 3.5*
Camber
Left: -0.7*
Right: -0.3
Toe
Left:0.05*
Right: 0.10*
Total: 0.15*
Rear Tires are as follows:
Camber
Left = -1.6*
Right = -2.1*
Toe:
Left: 0.15*
Right: 0.05
Total: 0.20
Thrust Angle:
-0.01*
And thank you, sir. I inspected my LCA compliance bushings while in the middle of reading this below thread, and then read some more, and I am coming to the conclusion that these are the first items I should replace. Although I am not 100% positive the darker areas are indeed cracks, it looks to be very likely (I will try to post a few photos for you to look at).
Sign In - AcuraZine Community
If this issue was fixed, I would be soooo much more to want to incline my TL, as it i so clean and nice but this issue is making me want to get rid of it.
Sean
04-22-2015, 07:46 AM
#4
Race Director
Dude, get your front and rear toe fixed first....
I forget, is front caster adjustable on our cars? If so, get that fixed as well.
You could probably benefit from the SPC camber arms in the rear. Are you lowered at all?
Do any of your tires show abnormal wear?
I forget, is front caster adjustable on our cars? If so, get that fixed as well.
You could probably benefit from the SPC camber arms in the rear. Are you lowered at all?
Do any of your tires show abnormal wear?
04-22-2015, 10:29 AM
#5
Is it clear from looking at the alignment specs that the reason my car is pulling to the right constantly is the alignment?
The shop I tried to have align it and they said they couldn't correct the pull to the right because I need upper adjustable ball joints. I thought toe causes a pull?
Any other help on the mystery vibration is appreciated.
Sean
Last edited by Freefallin06; 04-22-2015 at 10:35 AM.
04-22-2015, 01:25 PM
#6
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Holy camber. The front specs aren't bad but the rears are a bit excessive, especially the rear right. I would suggest buying adjustable rear arms to dial out the unnecessary camber. As for adjustable ball joints for the front, you can buy them and have them pressed in, or buy the Skunk2 Upper Control Arms and they have adjustable ball joints built in. I've had mine for nearly a year and haven't had any issues.
As for the pull, are all of your tires the same size and brand? Were they bought together or is one older than another? How does the tire wear look between the set? Uneven tire wear on the front right due to additional toe could wear the tire more, resulting in a pull.
As for the pull, are all of your tires the same size and brand? Were they bought together or is one older than another? How does the tire wear look between the set? Uneven tire wear on the front right due to additional toe could wear the tire more, resulting in a pull.
04-22-2015, 04:28 PM
#7
Holy camber. The front specs aren't bad but the rears are a bit excessive, especially the rear right. I would suggest buying adjustable rear arms to dial out the unnecessary camber. As for adjustable ball joints for the front, you can buy them and have them pressed in, or buy the Skunk2 Upper Control Arms and they have adjustable ball joints built in. I've had mine for nearly a year and haven't had any issues.
As for the pull, are all of your tires the same size and brand? Were they bought together or is one older than another? How does the tire wear look between the set? Uneven tire wear on the front right due to additional toe could wear the tire more, resulting in a pull.
As for the pull, are all of your tires the same size and brand? Were they bought together or is one older than another? How does the tire wear look between the set? Uneven tire wear on the front right due to additional toe could wear the tire more, resulting in a pull.
Tires are all brand new and were purchased and same time, same place. I can actually visually see the rear right tire has a lot of camber compared to the rear left.
I basically want to be told what I need to buy to rid the car of the vibration and get it driving straight and true.
Sean
Trending Topics
04-22-2015, 04:38 PM
#8
Race Director
You really need to start with an alignment and then go from there. Purchase a lifetime alignment from Firestone or a 3-yr alignment deal from Sears or similar. Get the car aligned and get as many of the measurements back into spec as possible. Then see how the car drives.
-1.6 camber in the rear is not bad, but the -2.1 could cause further issues if not corrected.
Do you have a lot of weight in the rear seat or trunk by any chance? Rear camber goes more negative with increased weight in the rear of the car. Rear camber can only be corrected (assuming nothing is bent) with an adjustable camber arm. The SPC arms are less than $170 shipped and an easy DIY.
One more question: Is this a salvage title?
-1.6 camber in the rear is not bad, but the -2.1 could cause further issues if not corrected.
Do you have a lot of weight in the rear seat or trunk by any chance? Rear camber goes more negative with increased weight in the rear of the car. Rear camber can only be corrected (assuming nothing is bent) with an adjustable camber arm. The SPC arms are less than $170 shipped and an easy DIY.
One more question: Is this a salvage title?
Last edited by nfnsquared; 04-22-2015 at 04:40 PM.
04-22-2015, 05:46 PM
#9
You really need to start with an alignment and then go from there. Purchase a lifetime alignment from Firestone or a 3-yr alignment deal from Sears or similar. Get the car aligned and get as many of the measurements back into spec as possible. Then see how the car drives.
-1.6 camber in the rear is not bad, but the -2.1 could cause further issues if not corrected.
Do you have a lot of weight in the rear seat or trunk by any chance? Rear camber goes more negative with increased weight in the rear of the car. Rear camber can only be corrected (assuming nothing is bent) with an adjustable camber arm. The SPC arms are less than $170 shipped and an easy DIY.
One more question: Is this a salvage title?
-1.6 camber in the rear is not bad, but the -2.1 could cause further issues if not corrected.
Do you have a lot of weight in the rear seat or trunk by any chance? Rear camber goes more negative with increased weight in the rear of the car. Rear camber can only be corrected (assuming nothing is bent) with an adjustable camber arm. The SPC arms are less than $170 shipped and an easy DIY.
One more question: Is this a salvage title?
Sean
04-22-2015, 07:06 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Have you checked your motor mounts?
Any vibrations when you hit the brakes?
Wheels balanced ok?
Any broken sway bar mounts or end links?
Any vibrations when you hit the brakes?
Wheels balanced ok?
Any broken sway bar mounts or end links?
Last edited by FamilyGuy; 04-22-2015 at 07:09 PM.
04-22-2015, 10:15 PM
#11
Motor mounts have been inspected and although they are worn, no leaks or visible cracking. We initially thought the vibration was the motor mounts but instead it ended up being the axles. All along I have kind of thought the non-OEM axles may be causing this. It happened to the Jetta I traded in on this Acura. Does this sound like it may be the issue? Would getting the 3 year alignment thing be a wise decision now so even thought i will likely be replacing the shocks and springs if I keep the car?
We have had the car in the air several times and have not noticed anything with the sway bars or end links.
Wheels and tires were balanced a couple of months on a Hunter Road Force machine when I bought the tires and were OK says the shop.
Just trying to figure out what to do first here to get the ball rolling on process of elimination. Oh, and the vibration on the hwy is there even when the clutch is pressed in or the car is in neutral so that would have to be something rotational. Would the worn shocks and springs or cracked Compliance Bushings cause a vibration like this on the hwy?
Sean
04-25-2015, 04:48 PM
#12
Advanced
I went through this myself recently.. Here is the horror story.
Replaced LCAs (when the sleeve popped out getting it disassembled for the CVs), front sway links (rusted on, cut off), lower ball joints, axles (new OEM), brakes (rotors and pads) and still had the same amount of vibration.
350 bucks later at an alloy repair place and my ride was rolling on glass. Our wheels get bent crazy easy, I would question the hunter road force balance folks and have your wheels looked at again; Could save you a bunch of money.
I have a bad shock still and this causes a bunny hopping motion and excessive wheel hop on uneven surfaces not side to side vibration... aspec kit on its way for under $650 shipped thanks to OEM Acura Parts.
Replaced LCAs (when the sleeve popped out getting it disassembled for the CVs), front sway links (rusted on, cut off), lower ball joints, axles (new OEM), brakes (rotors and pads) and still had the same amount of vibration.
350 bucks later at an alloy repair place and my ride was rolling on glass. Our wheels get bent crazy easy, I would question the hunter road force balance folks and have your wheels looked at again; Could save you a bunch of money.
I have a bad shock still and this causes a bunny hopping motion and excessive wheel hop on uneven surfaces not side to side vibration... aspec kit on its way for under $650 shipped thanks to OEM Acura Parts.
04-27-2015, 12:15 AM
#13
I went through this myself recently.. Here is the horror story.
Replaced LCAs (when the sleeve popped out getting it disassembled for the CVs), front sway links (rusted on, cut off), lower ball joints, axles (new OEM), brakes (rotors and pads) and still had the same amount of vibration.
350 bucks later at an alloy repair place and my ride was rolling on glass. Our wheels get bent crazy easy, I would question the hunter road force balance folks and have your wheels looked at again; Could save you a bunch of money.
I have a bad shock still and this causes a bunny hopping motion and excessive wheel hop on uneven surfaces not side to side vibration... aspec kit on its way for under $650 shipped thanks to OEM Acura Parts.
Replaced LCAs (when the sleeve popped out getting it disassembled for the CVs), front sway links (rusted on, cut off), lower ball joints, axles (new OEM), brakes (rotors and pads) and still had the same amount of vibration.
350 bucks later at an alloy repair place and my ride was rolling on glass. Our wheels get bent crazy easy, I would question the hunter road force balance folks and have your wheels looked at again; Could save you a bunch of money.
I have a bad shock still and this causes a bunny hopping motion and excessive wheel hop on uneven surfaces not side to side vibration... aspec kit on its way for under $650 shipped thanks to OEM Acura Parts.
Has anyone heard of aftermarket axles causing shuddering/vibration upon acceleration an also at hwy speeds? This has to be my issue. I am working on having the dealership to install them for free but I doubt this will happen. If I had a clear understanding of what exactly the problem was and I knew I wasn't just throwing money at "potential" fixes I wouldn't be to hesitant.
Sean
05-01-2015, 09:44 AM
#14
i have a vibration issue as well. except mine is only around lower speeds. you can really feel it in your seat. not so much the steering wheel. i have replaced both front axles with oem reman units. front upper control arms and lower. every single arm in the rear has been replaced due to alignment issues.. have tried multiple sets of wheels and it still does it. its quite frustrating
05-08-2015, 03:29 PM
#15
Advanced
Has anyone heard of aftermarket axles causing shuddering/vibration upon acceleration an also at hwy speeds? This has to be my issue. I am working on having the dealership to install them for free but I doubt this will happen. If I had a clear understanding of what exactly the problem was and I knew I wasn't just throwing money at "potential" fixes I wouldn't be to hesitant.
Sean
I'm not so sure about aftermarket TL axles, but I have definitely read about the TSX having serious issues with aftermarket axles. I don't remember where I read the post, but it may have been Marcus at HeelToe where I read that.
Good luck...I also have a slight vibration issue, but mine is only over 50mph. Mine seriously feels like a wheel out of balance, but they're all perfect. I know that one of the wheels has a pretty serious flat spot. However it's odd that I have this wheel on the right rear, but I still feel it through the steering wheel. I'm wondering if axles are my problem as well.
Keep in touch!
05-08-2015, 11:32 PM
#16
Cruisin'
Sean,
Mine recently developed a shudder/vibration under acceleration a couple weeks ago. I noticed though that I could also feel that there was a bubble or something in my driver front tire. I could feel the shudder/vibration more intensely as I hit WOT. When I let off the gas and let the car deccelerate on its own, I could feel this constant bump each revoltion that the tire would make. All the way down to a rolling stop. I visually and physically checked the tire but didn't see anything. So I bought a new tire (identical replacement) and replaced the problematic one. Before he mounted the new one, I had the guy check the balance and it immediately started to bounce around on the tire balancer. Beyond the point of trying to get it balanced. It doesn't have that rotational bump anymore but I still have some vibration/shuddering from about half to WOT. I'm thinking it might be the driver side axle. I replaced the passenger side one (new oem) about a year and a half ago. I went the new route because I read that inner axle joint wear is a common problem among TSXs and TLs:
Honda Genuine Inner Axle Joint and Boot Kit, 2004-08 Acura TL and TL-S - HeelToe Automotive
So when you buy axles at whatever autoparts store, they are remanufacturing them with these worn inner axle joints. So you're never solving your problem unless you buy a new (never used) axle. That's why I go with new oem ones.
Everyone talks about the compliance bushing issue, but I don't think this is the cause in this instance. I say this because mine have been torn about halfway through for the 2 years I've had my TL and I haven't had this issue the whole time. Your bushings sound like they are in a lot better condition than mine are (I bought new TL-S bushings but I've been procrastinating like crazy about having them installed).
So I'm going to order a new driver side axle from the dealer right before I get back from my business trip in a week and a half so it will be ready for me to pick up when I return. Hopefully that solves my issue.
On another note, I just replaced my worn suspension with the Tein Street Basis. I picked them up new for $497 shipped. I installed them on 4-28-15 so I've had them on almost 2 weeks. The ride is great. It feels pretty close to stock. A lot of body roll has been eliminated. I bought all new top hat components from my local Acura dealer (cost me about $134.) So when it was time to install, I just had to swap them out. Also, my car has 125k miles so i wanted new bushings. Why install new suspension components if you're still going to re-use old ones.
I currently have to ride height set at the default setting per the instructions that came with the coilovers. I wanted to wait a couple weeks to let everything settle before I adjusted the height to where I want it. It's currently sitting flush with the fender if not maybe about a half "finger gap" "tucked." That's not really my style so I'm going to raise it up so there's about a half inch wheel gap. Once that's done and I install the new axle, I will get an alignment. I got a coupon in the mail from my dealer for a $59.99 wheel alignment. Not a bad deal, especially for out here in South Florida (everything's so much cheaper back home in Texas.)
Mine recently developed a shudder/vibration under acceleration a couple weeks ago. I noticed though that I could also feel that there was a bubble or something in my driver front tire. I could feel the shudder/vibration more intensely as I hit WOT. When I let off the gas and let the car deccelerate on its own, I could feel this constant bump each revoltion that the tire would make. All the way down to a rolling stop. I visually and physically checked the tire but didn't see anything. So I bought a new tire (identical replacement) and replaced the problematic one. Before he mounted the new one, I had the guy check the balance and it immediately started to bounce around on the tire balancer. Beyond the point of trying to get it balanced. It doesn't have that rotational bump anymore but I still have some vibration/shuddering from about half to WOT. I'm thinking it might be the driver side axle. I replaced the passenger side one (new oem) about a year and a half ago. I went the new route because I read that inner axle joint wear is a common problem among TSXs and TLs:
Honda Genuine Inner Axle Joint and Boot Kit, 2004-08 Acura TL and TL-S - HeelToe Automotive
So when you buy axles at whatever autoparts store, they are remanufacturing them with these worn inner axle joints. So you're never solving your problem unless you buy a new (never used) axle. That's why I go with new oem ones.
Everyone talks about the compliance bushing issue, but I don't think this is the cause in this instance. I say this because mine have been torn about halfway through for the 2 years I've had my TL and I haven't had this issue the whole time. Your bushings sound like they are in a lot better condition than mine are (I bought new TL-S bushings but I've been procrastinating like crazy about having them installed).
So I'm going to order a new driver side axle from the dealer right before I get back from my business trip in a week and a half so it will be ready for me to pick up when I return. Hopefully that solves my issue.
On another note, I just replaced my worn suspension with the Tein Street Basis. I picked them up new for $497 shipped. I installed them on 4-28-15 so I've had them on almost 2 weeks. The ride is great. It feels pretty close to stock. A lot of body roll has been eliminated. I bought all new top hat components from my local Acura dealer (cost me about $134.) So when it was time to install, I just had to swap them out. Also, my car has 125k miles so i wanted new bushings. Why install new suspension components if you're still going to re-use old ones.
I currently have to ride height set at the default setting per the instructions that came with the coilovers. I wanted to wait a couple weeks to let everything settle before I adjusted the height to where I want it. It's currently sitting flush with the fender if not maybe about a half "finger gap" "tucked." That's not really my style so I'm going to raise it up so there's about a half inch wheel gap. Once that's done and I install the new axle, I will get an alignment. I got a coupon in the mail from my dealer for a $59.99 wheel alignment. Not a bad deal, especially for out here in South Florida (everything's so much cheaper back home in Texas.)
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jaynatlanta
5G TLX Problems & Fixes
2
09-15-2015 11:08 AM