SouthernBoy

I just got a new set of tires for my "other" TL.. an '05 automatic that is the wife's (my own TL is an '04 manual). Anyway, just thought y'all might like to hear about a viable tire choice for those in the market or soon to be.

I generally do quite a bit of research and reading for my own tires and so I did some for my wife's TL as well. A year ago last spring, I had a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires installed on my '04, so those are a very good benchmark against which to judge other tires for this fine performance sedan. After a lot of looking around, I decided upon a set of Goodyear Eagle F1's in the OEM size of 235/45ZR17 for her car. We had them installed this morning and while I will check and adjust the pressure tomorrow morning, I just took her car out for a short road test about an hour ago. Here are my initial impressions.

Steering is light (as is nearly always the case with new tires). Turn in is excellent. Headed out to route 66 and at 70 MPH, road noise was no more (maybe a little less) than her OEM Michelin's. Directional stability was super and tracking was also greatly improved.

Over to a four lane 55 MPH road with very good pavement. Again, the tires performed as advertised. Then to a two lane 45 MPH road also with very good asphalt. Some hills and twists and turns (not real aggressive). Have to watch the steering because the much improved turn in combined with our 2.7 turns lock-to-lock can get you over the line or in the ditch if you're not watching what you're doing.

Then on to another two lane road again with hills and turns and this one is quite a bit more aggressive.. a nice road to wring out one's car. Her TL has never handled this good.. not even when new.

Bottom line? The Eagle F1's are a superb tire and easily the match to the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S, plus their quieter than the Michelin's. Great tire and a great match for the TL.

01tl4tl

fsttyms1 also highly recommends this tire- and thats a guy who puts a lot of tires on his car!
I was going for them, when I found a set of rims and tires in the black market and couldnt pass up 18s- they have genereal exclaim's on them- a good second choice to the F1s
for those on a tighter budget. Next set will be F1s on my car.

01tl4tl

the F1 comes in all season or summer/performance versions

SouthernBoy

The F1's we bought for my wife's car are of the all season variety. Really an impressive tire and it looks great, too. With our two TL's parked in the garage, it is easy to compare the rear end view. The F1 looks wider than the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S with the appearance of a larger footprint on the pavement.

Bearcat94

Great to hear. We put the BS 960 AS on our other TL (2002 TL-S) and that's the best tire we've had on that car.

But when the '07 is ready (I'm wearing the stock MXM4 as fast a I can - lol), I'm really leaning toward the GY F1 AS.

If you can, post a follow up in a few thousand miles.

SouthernBoy

Ok, I'll try to remember to do that. They're on my wife's '05 TL. This evening we went out to dinner and took her car. I had her drive just to get her take on them. She said she really couldn't tell any real noticeable difference, but admitted that she's not as in tune to those things as am I. I can definitely tell the difference, but then I can also tell if a tire is a few pounds off from others, too though not as much in these cars as in two of my previous ones (a '88 Mustang LX 302CID and a 2000 SVT Contour).

My initial impression of the Eagle F1 is that it is a very good tire for this car. Although my assessment is not totally fair at this time since I have not checked the air pressure and properly adjusted it, I can say with confidence that this is a very good tire for this car.

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

I have been looking at GY F1 AS as well. Please keep us posted.

csmeance

Goodyears are at the top of my list now, my mich. tires still have 15K left on the (at least) and they slip in the rain upon mid throttle and I can do a burnout for 2-3 seconds on a dry day mind you, this is a stock TL (performance wise)

DMZ

About 3,000 miles now on my Eagle F1 All Seasons, and I'll put them up against any make or model of tire recomended anywhere on this forum.

http://www.goodyeartires.com/eagle/eagleF1AS_innov.html

.
.

enigmaos

iTrader: (4)

where is a good place to get Goodyear Eagle F1 AS tires?

DMZ

www.mavistire.com. Call Mark J at the 800#, ext 704 for price quote.
$139 each + $12.50 for the road hazard warranty for 235/45/17, mounted, balanced, and installed at one of their locations.

S PAW 1

SouthernBoy,
I, too have been reading the raves concerning the F1 A/S's, since I am a long time fan of the Michelin Pilot A/S's. Sounds like the Pilot A/S's are getting a little dated technology wise. I am a bit confused at your comparison, though. Are the F1's quieter than your wife's OEM's, or the Pilot A/S's? I am assuming when you say OEM's that you are speaking of the MXMM4's?
You had also said in an earlier string months ago that you felt the Pilot A/S's had more rolling resistance. How do you think the F1's compare?
Thanks for the info.

SouthernBoy

Her stock OEM tires were Michelin Pilot HX MXM4's I'm virtually certain. I have the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires on my '05 manual TL.

Yesterday, I asked my wife to give me a report of her impressions regarding the F1's as she drove to work and back today. She did this morning after arriving at work. She said that the F1's are slightly noisier than her stock tires, but handle noticeably better. A nice feeling of confidence. She is anxious to see how they fair under hard acceleration and in the wet when getting into the throttle a bit (her stock tires would break traction under both conditions).

As for road noise compared to my Pilot Sport A/S's, I would say that the F1's are about the same in volume (perhaps slightly quieter), but a different sound. Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires exhibit a rather strange sound on dry, smooth asphalt when the throttle is tipped into a bit. The sound is similar to driving on wet asphalt. Indeed, strange.

As for rolling resistance, in an attempt to answer your question, I went out in my garage a few minutes ago and got into my wife's TL (it's an '05 automatic). I started the engine, put the transmission in neutral, and released the emergency brake. No movement at all.. the car sat still. So based upon that, I would say that the F1's have a higher rolling resistance than her stock tires. But that's to be expected. Our TL's are normally delivered with Grand Touring tires. Such tires have lower road noise and less rolling resistance than hi-performance tires.. it's just the price you pay to get better rubber.

One other thing which is a negative with the F1's. They're heavier than the stock tires. They weigh 26 pounds versus 24 pounds for the OEM tires. On the plus side, they are 2/10ths of an inch shorter which has the affect of lowering your final drive ratio.. at the price of registering a speed higher than that which you are traveling.

Still the F1's are a solid choice for the TL. I'm not positive I'll go for them on my TL since I only have around 23,000 miles on my Pilot Sports and I expect them to go another 30K+ miles before needing replacement. Who knows what will be out there at that time.

geekybiker

Sure.... just so long as you take value for the money into account. The f1 is a good tire, but its certainly not the best tire for the money. However an extra $30-40 a tire isn't a deal killer for everyone.

Johnny Canuck

The f1 is a good tire, but its certainly not the best tire for the money.

OK ... what is the best tire for the same money in your opinion? I am not being a smart ass, the more opinions or actual results are always welcome. JC

DMZ

When it comes to things like tires, big thing for me is safety rather than value for the money. And in tirerack's tests, these Eagle F1 All Seasons edged out all the others in wet weather conditions. Like a tire salesman once told me many years ago, "You're Riding On Your Life".

Here in the NYC Tri-State area, they can be had for $139 each (versus the $179 list price) mounted, balanced, and installed from Mavis Tire. That price can be obtained from Mark J at their corporate office making them extremely competitive.

binhsterbinh

Just ordered these Good Year F1 A/S's in a 245/40/18 for my '05 Automatic from Tirerack. I will give my initial impressions/pics later this week. They're doing the usual $50 cash back incentive. Very good customer service as well BTW (Hannah and BJ). Paid $172/tire and bundled it with 18x8 Rial Como's. Should be an upgrade from the OEM Pilot HX MXM4 which slip like crazy in rain and track like none other.

Saw these bad boys on a 2008 Accord Coupe in size 245/45/19 at the auto show yesterday and they look fantastic. Very agressive looking and very generous amount of rim protection as they carry the rim protector bead. 8.9 inches of tread width should be nice as well.

geekybiker

I would go with the Continental ExtremeContacts myself. Had multiple sets, and love em. Maybe the F1's a marginally better in some aspects, but the extreme contacts are under $100 a tire in stock sizes. The big kicker for me at least is they do pretty well in the snow. They have a nice open tread pattern that works well for it. For a year round tire good performance in the worst conditions I meet is more important than a marginal performance improvement in conditions I have lots more traction. On tire rack for UHP all seasons the extreme contact is the #2 rated tire for snow. Right behind a Bridgestone tire nearly double its cost.

Honestly if I was worried about the difference between the very well rated Extreme contact, and the f1, I would instead put that money towards buying separate winter and summer tires (which would destroy the f1 all seasons in performance in all conditions) You're talking about a large percentage of the cost of a tire in difference. DMZ mentions safety as the prime concern, but if maximum traction was really the most important factor you wouldn't be driving all seasons to begin with.

This might change a little bit if you never get snow, but I would still say that the extreme contact is a better deal for the price.

binhsterbinh

Well, my first impressions are pretty good after a few days of rain driving on the Eagle F1 All Seasons. Rain traction is amazing - the difference between night and day compared to the Pilot MXM4 OEM tires which were previously on there(30-40% tread though). It's very difficult to get these things to break lose at all on dry or wet. I'm having a little vibration issues in the steering wheel on highway which might be tire balance issue or just the lugs needing to be retightened on the front. I had torqued them to 80lbs the other night, but for some reason the front ones were lose again. Hopefully this will fix the problem. As to noise, they're definitely have a louder hum than the MXM4's which is given as I went from a Grand Touring to a Ultra High Performance A/S. It's not really loud at all and completely bearable considering the way they drive and handle. No longer do I have to slow down to 15mph to go around bends in the road when it's wet. I floored it around a corner from a stop last night when it was pooring out and they barely lost grip and then grabbed and pulled me around the corner before any traction control kicked in. On the OEM MXM4 tires, I would have to slightly tap the pedal when it rained to prevent a spin-out and traction control which was annoying.

Anyways, with new tread and a slightly wider tire (245/40/18), these things definitely seem to fill in the wheel well gap better than the OEM wheel/tires.

About the fuel mileage, I have noticed a slight decline in mileage but it could very well be due to the fewer revolutions per mile having gone with a slightly taller tire. Another factor is going from 17" to 18" which increased weight. Wheels are 25.4lbs(close to stock), but the tire is 29lbs as opposed to 25lbs. The engine definitely sounds like it does a little more work now as you can hear/feel the low RPM rumble under acceleration(the low engine rumble you get when you have more than yourself in the car).

Other than the vibration issue which may have already been fixed with re-torqueing, these tires are amazing!!! They're like a summer tire with all season abilities. The tread has pretty big grooves along with lines of siping which should definitely aid better snow grip. I've driven summer tires like the Yok ES100 and Kumho 712's in the past and would have to say the F1 A/S are close in terms of grip/handling. In comparison to the Potenza RE950 A/S and G009 A/S that I've used as well, these have far better handling characteristics.

goredcar

Good discussion, and very timely for me as I am looking for a new tires for my wife's 07 TLS. I had purchased the Toyo T1-Rs to go on A spec wheels, but had lots of problems with them vibrating, so I returned them. I am not keen to get all seasons mounted as I have the stock wheels with snow tires... so does anyone have any experience with the summer performance version of the F1s?

ExpensiveWino32

This is a very helpful thread. Based on what I've read so far in the forums-- I'll be going with with the Goodyear F1 AS. thanks for the help!

Eoanou

I was thinking of getting the Yokahoma Avid H4s, or S4s, not sure which one is the all season tire, but anyway how do they compare to these Goodyears?

I've pretty much narrowed my selection down to these two tires, I was going to get the BridgeStone Potenza RE950 A/S but they're expensive, roughly 200$ each for a 235/45/17.

Also do you guys think that I should go with a 245/40/17 on the OEM wheels or just stick with the 235, I was hoping I could shed a lb or two on the tire weight, but that's unlikely, I think the Turanzas are the lightest A/S tire.

leedogg

Agreed, at the time I was looking, the RE960 poles were excellent tires at a pretty good price...they've accordingly gone up in price from what I see... for a summer tire, the General Exclaim UHP's were also at a great price.

Take a look at the tirerack surveys for the right type of tire for your needs

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/index.jsp

binhsterbinh

Follow up:

I've been experiencing major vibration issues from my F1 A/S's (245/40/18). Tirerack told me to have them rebalanced starting with the front ones as I had steering wheel vibration as discussed in my previous post. Had Seattle Wheel service balance the front 2 on a Hunter Force 9700. One was in spec and only needed 4 additional grams of weight. The driver front had a 32lb road force reading. They shifted the softest part of the tire to the heaviest part of the wheel to combat this issue. The next day I drove my usualy 25 highway miles to work and it was better, but still experiencing vibration issues, just not as bad.
2 days later, I took it back to Seattle Wheel to have the rear remaining tires balanced. The driver rear had some road force as well, so the mechanic shifted the tire on the wheel again. The passenger rear wheel had a 41lb road force reading and both first and second levels of harmonic vibrations. The road force machine said the tire was deemed defective and needed to be replaced. The guy even showed me how the tire was oval in shape as it spun around on the machine.

Tirerack has issued me a new tire and said they will reinburse the tire balancing up to $25/tire and up to $20 for the mount/balance of my replacement tire. I put a stock 17" in place at the passenger corner until the replacement arrived but have yet to bring it down to the shop. Even with the defective tire out, I'm still experiencing vibration issues which is rediculous. It is very slight but there. Sure hope it is because I have a stock 17" wheel on there along with three 18's but doubt that's the case. Going to have the new tire put on the wheel soon, so I'll post on the results.

This has been a horrible experience. I've had to spend 2 afternoons having my tires rebalanced, and then more time swapping the crappy tire out because I didn't want to screw up my car with all the vibration. I will also have to spend another afternoon waiting for the new tire to get installed.

Tire balancing =$86; Mounting/balancing new tire: $26.50-$45(depending on shop); Personal time spent in process = agonizing...could have been working

Pretty sweet Tirerack sent me 3 out of balance tires, one of which was defective! I won't even break even here after reinbursements and time spent working and being pissed off.

lusid

that sucks

DMZ

Nothing against Tirerack, but your situation is a prime example of why I believe tires and clearbra are things you buy from the installer so there's only ONE entity to deal with if there's ever a problem.

Nuff said....................

chill_dog

I've driven with 3 19's and one stock 17" (with the 19" wheel/tire slightly larger than stock as your 18's are), and there was no vibration whatsoever. As you surmised, that's not the cause of it.

97whtse

I wish i would have seen this thread before. I just ordered the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position today and i have an appointment monday to get them mounted and balanced. Ill post a review hopefully within a week of driving. In comparison from tire rack the F1 and the RE960AS seem very similar but the Bridgestone had a few better results in Road Noise and Ride Comfort.

Masta120

I'm in the same boat...saw the Bridgestones have slightly higher ratings in snow (live in NY, got stuck last winter in 4 inches of snow).

I've got my appt to get them on Friday. Btw, hows this for price on these tires?

Tirerack: $169 / tire + shipping (~$36) + tax.

Mavis website: $168 + $10 (installation fee) + $12 (balance and stems) = $190 + tax (installed)

I called Mavis and talked to the guy for a few minutes before he quoted me this:
$158 + $6 (balancing) = $164 + tax (installed)

So I'm looking at $714.38 with tax installed. Anyone know of a better price for these?

S PAW 1

One unfortunate incident doesn't disqualify the F1 and being a very good tire. I think we have all experienced a defective tire if you are over 25.
If it becomes more common, then maybe will rethink when it comes time to purchase.
Although some people will bash all TL's because they had a rattle

binhsterbinh

I would have to agree with you here. These are still very nice tires and stick like glue in dry/wet conditions. My margin of safety has increased significantly. Yes, they will be noisier than the factory oem pilot mxm4's but you get traction in return.

Today, I brought my car down to a shop in kirkland called Stage Performance Auto Center to have the new tire installed that I received from tirerack. I asked them to check the balance again to make sure that the tire I had removed was indeed defective. Using the Hunter 9700, I watched as the tech tested the balance. The results showed no defective tire which was strange. This is the tire that used to be on the right rear. I then had them check the balance of the 2 front ones and the passenger front one showed a little bit of runout(still within spec though) and so he replaced the weights to get it more in range. He then shifted that tire to the passenger rear and then put the supposedly "defective tire" up front and had me take it out for a drive. I was late for a flight, so I did not have a lot of time to test it but I hit the freeway briefly and things seemed okay. If the tire was actually defective, I should have felt tons of vibration in my steering wheel; however, I didn't.

The showed the technician a printout from the Hunter 9700 from the other shop, and the only explanation he could give me was that they either had it mounted on the machine incorrectly or that the machine was out of calibration. I can rule out calibration as the other tires the first shop balanced were all good. Before Stage Performance reinstalled the wheels, he checked the centering ring to make sure it was flush and seated as well which checked out okay.

On another note, the way the 2 shops mounted the wheel onto the Hunter was slightly different. Seattle Wheel used an adapter in addition to balancing around the very center of the wheel (between the centering ring) that similated the 5 lug nuts as well. The second shop just balanced it directly around the center without the 5 lug similation adapter. Not sure how much of a difference this will make but I will be back on Sunday to find out when I do more driving.

I'll post more information when I find out. As of right now, the F1 Eagle A/S is supposedly not defective. I was only charged $20 for the balance of 3 tires at Stage Performance which is a lot cheaper than Seattle Wheel though which is good.

97whtse

Thats pretty good. I got mine for 806 with tax, mounted and balanced and including the road hazard program

goredcar

Agreed... but if you have had to suffer through multiple wheel balances and lots of wasted time then you might think twice about any brand that people have had trouble with… that is the purpose of this forum… to inform others.

I have no experience with the F1’s but have had a nightmare with the Toyo T1R’s on A spec wheels, to the point where I am sorry that I ventured away from the stock wheels and tires on a new TLS.

DMZ

Like I said in a previous post in this thread:

Tires are one of those items you buy from which ever shop installing them so there's only ONE entity to deal with in case there's a problem. Look at all the time lost by going back and forth and back and forth between Tirerack and 2 tire shops. In the end, was the saving by buying from Tirerack worth it?

binhsterbinh

In this case, Tirerack had the wheel/tire package I was interested in. I've never had issues with them in the past. I figured "free" mounting/balancing shipped to my door would save $80-$100, but I guess not in this case. In the case of purchasing simply tires in the future, I will probably just deal with discount tire or one of those shops, but as far as combined tire/wheel packages, it's still up in the air. Guess it all depends on the deal. If it the price margin is large, I will probably still buy online. Tirerack has been very cooperative though.

Seems everytime I try and go away from stock, more issues arise - at least that was the case with my integra. That's the price we pay to make our cars look better though.

binhsterbinh

Had Seattle Wheel re-examine my tire in question yesterday and the technician gladly put the tire back on the machine to obtain roadforce readings. He also said that they calibrate about once every 1-2 weeks on their 6 month old Hunter 9700. He tested it both ways- simply around the hub like most shops do and the way using both the hub and the $600 adapter that similates lug nuts as well. They are a wheel repair specialty shop, so that is why they use more accurate measuring device. Around the center hub alone, road force reading was 32lbs which is still out of spec - spec being within 26lbs. With the 5 lug similation adapter, it gave a 42lb road force reading. This goes to show how the same machine gives 2 different readings depending on how you mount it. Either way, the tire needed to be replaced.

He removed the tire in question and measured the rim runout and radial differences. Rim came out perfect. Almost too perfect.

Next he put the new tire on. The spun it again on the 9700 and it gave a 38lb road force reading, still over the limit. He next rotated the tire on the wheel hoping to get the lowest part of the tire on the heaviest part of the wheel. The new reading was 25lbs, barely within limits. This is the best that they could do.

With that said, he put it back on the passenger front corner. Drove to work this morning(highway). It definitely felt better but it was early so I'll have to see this afternoon how it drives when I hit smoother asphault.

Knowing our TL's, I bet I'll still feel vibration with a 25lb road force reading.

Bottom line from my experience is that the Good Year Eagle F1 A/S tires are not very round. Most tires aren't but these seem to be less round than their competitors. With the bare rim readout integrated with the tire/wheel combination, the 9700 tells me that the tire alone had a 32lb road force imbalance which is quite high and will definitely be an issue if you don't have a slightly out of round wheel to cancel the forces out.

Next time, I'll go with the Bridgestone 960 tires. I took my chances with the F1 A/S as there weren't many reviews, and that was a mistake. Maybe it's just my luck that I had 2 very imperfect tires. Only time will tell as more Tirerack reviews for these tires come in. As for the lip protection, I can push with my thumb on the tire and touch the rim where the protector lies.

DMZ

Round and round this thread goes, and when we'll stop hearing the only claimed problem with the Eagle F1's A/S's here or on Tirerack, nobody knows.

ChuckDu

On Monday at noon I ordered a set of 4 Eagle F1 A/S from Tire Rack. Yesterday at 10AM, UPS dropped them off at my house. By 1PM they were mounted and balanced by the local tire shop. The tech at the shop said they were a breeze to balance. Test driving the car proved him correct- smooth as glass to about 90 mph.

Compared to the Toyo Proxes 4's that the new tires replace, my initial impressions are that the F1 A/S's are much quieter, ride a bit firmer, and handle significantly better. I only have 100 miles of experience with the F1 A/S's, and all of that on dry roads, but so far I'm impressed.

As to purchasing from Tire Rack, I haven't had a bad experience with them out of a total of 15 or so purchases over the years. I'm guessing I've purchased 40 tires through them, and not a one was received defective. Perhaps it is just a matter of luck.

Sidekick

binhsterbinh's problems could be bad luck as some have said. Could also just be an inexperienced shop... Seattle Wheel Service bought the building that Foster's Wheel Service was in and decided to start-up a "familiar" business that is kind of rare for the area. Only other place I know of is Dependable Wheel Repair in Renton.

Anyhow, I don't have any experience with Seattle Wheel, but I've worked with Foster's and Dependable, and I can't say I appreciate Seattle Wheel's endeavor to build on the foot traffic that Foster's wheel left behind. It just seems kind of sneaky. What I do know is that they've only been around as long as that equipment they bought, which was what? 6 months? No thanks...

DMZ has a point about dealing direct, but like ChuckDu, I've never had ANY issues ordering from http://www.Tirerack.com and shipping to http://www.DependableWheel.com (Wheel Repair Specialists & open on Saturday). Tirerack treats their customers VERY well, even when there are problems (as binhsterbinh's example shows).

Masta120

I cannot comment on the Goodyear tires...I recently got the Bridgestone Potenza 960s. In dry conditions, I could not notice too much of a difference over the stock michelin's (I can't notice the little improvements in my driving). BUT in the snow, the 960's are insane!

We had a big snow storm in NY this past weekend...and these tires performed great. Last year I got stuck twice in the stock michelin's but these I was able to move around in the slush/ice with little or no problems.

Again dry conditions might not be much of an improvement....or the Goodyear's might be a bit better (just don't know), but in the snow the 960's are definitely worth it.