3rdGenHybrid

haha yeah...i did the yellow fogs....cold cathode license plate lights, pre-muffler/resonator deletion and the ur crank pulley....im gonna stay away from tints on this TL though....

XxAfG786xX

im really thnkin bout the ur pulley, hows da performance and do you thnk its worth getting for my car??

robbie82

Any new pics (from a camera)??

3rdGenHybrid

to tell you the truth....i put the pulley on my car the day after i bought it....so i dont really remember how it feels with out it....cause i didn't beat on it for a while....but from other people driving it....and comparing it to their stock tl-s...they say it makes a pretty big diffrence...go for it....its not that much...

XxAfG786xX

sounds interesting, pulley is next on my list

web_edge

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...highlight=baby

sjo

iTrader: (2)

Did you need to put on a camber kit after your alignment?

XxAfG786xX

no, all i did was take out the stock springs and put on the tiens...no alignment needed dude..

jay0k

I agree, the sticker is lame and giving the other TL-S's a bad rep.

elkayem

They're avaliable for the TL-S now?
How much did you get your S-tech's for?

XxAfG786xX

Yea, i thnk its for the regular TL, But it fits the TL-S..i got it from ebay $155 plus shipping and handling $25

XxAfG786xX

How is a sticker giving TL-S's a bad rep? Its part of my car crew, and anyways when I beat them by a couple car lengths ill be giving tl's a better rep

harddrivin1le

The Tein springs lowered your car by ~ 1.2 inches.

A 0.5 inch drop is right on the hairy edge of needing a camber kit and realignment on these cars.

You're well beyond that point and your camber is WAY off as a result of that. You will wear out the the inner tread on your tires rapidly unless you have a rear camber kit installed and have all four tires realigned.

elkayem

How does the drop feel? How does it drive? Deal with speed bumps fine?

Will new shocks be needed?

harddrivin1le

Tein's "S Techs" are soft enough to be used with the OEM dampers (i.e. shocks). The downside to that is that they're prone to bottoming, given their relative softness and that fact that a good deal of suspension travel has been eliminated by the "drop."

That's one reason (along with improved handling) that aftermarket coil-over assemblies use stiffer springs (in conjunction with better dampers).

Either way, any drop that's greater than 1/2" (max) will REQUIRE a rear camber kit and a fresh 4 wheel alignment.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

1) The mods closed the last thread you and I tangled in, so I'm just state this once...
The A-spec is 1/2 -3/4 inch drop. When I installed mine, it was nowhere near "needing" a camber kit, in fact, the alignment tech told me he didn't even need to make an alignment adjustment, as I was still well within spec (including toe) after a 1/2-3/4 drop. It's that real "1in+" drop where things really get out of whack. By no means am I suggesting folks NOT get an alignment after any suspension mod though...

2) The concept of "needing" a camber kit is relative. A camber kit throws off the original multilink design by shortening the tie to adjust the camber. This results in a slightly shorter axis of rotation. I'm suprised harddrivele1 is so "pro" camber kit, given his well known stance on stock suspensions, and how well engineered they are.

There's a great sticky on camber from Mr. Heeltoe. His answer is if you want a camber kit to make the numbers look right, get one... but it's not that important, and with a good alignment (toe is the important one), you'll get 90% out of your tires.
https://acurazine.com/forums/car-talk-5/motorcycle-vin-check-147290/

I've got almost 10K miles on my Tein SS lowered 1.5inches and at last tire rotation, I saw no signs of excessive tire wear (Falken 452's). I expect to get 50K+ out of these tires.

blokhead

Besides what Kennedy said, Toe out is what causes most inside tire wear (Extreme camber excluded /-\ ). It's funny, but have you ever seen a Honda Odessy on the Highway fully loaded? It has more negative camber then BMW's. I'm sure that Honda doesn't offer a camber kit for the Odessy.

But any time you do suspension work I agree, get a 4 wheel alighment.

Also according to your logic I read in the other suspension threads you posted in I don't understand why you are even a member here. It is pretty obvious you think that these cars should be left stock because that's the way they were designed, and honda engineers are all knowing and that everything is perfect, IE no trade offs for NVH. Some people prefer having a tighter feeling suspension than what Honda gave us, therefor giving more confidence in the cars handling. I'm sure that someone on this board has some skidpad numbers for the tien suspension compared to the factory.

I'm not disputing that you had a bad experience with tein. But I don't see too many other coil over kits for the TL that are affordable, do you?

harddrivin1le

The guy who started this thread installed Tein S Tech springs. A spec has nothing to do with it.


https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...98&postcount=6

Tein says they drop the car by 1.2"

http://www.tein.com/stech.html

And a 1.2" drop mandates a rear camber kit, at least for those who don't want to wear out the inside of their tires in 5,000 miles.

It's just not your week, is it?

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

I'm gonna try a new approach today.

You mention a 1/2in drop, I was drawing a parallel...

A-Spec yields 1/2-3/4in drop. When i installed my A-spec I didn't even need an alignment adjustment, much less a camber kit.

There's no mandate or requirement... My camber is out. -2.1 both sides... (maybe a little better since I raised the back up 1/4 in). I've got 10K on my Falken 452s and they barely look worn, they're certainly not worn out.

Did you read the sticky? Heeltoe is a long standing vendor, installer, and tech of Acura/Honda suspension components. I certainly respect his opinion, and my tire wear is proof of his opinion.

Here, I'll link it again in case you missed it.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147290

Hmm... No comments to how a camber kit changes the geometery of the suspension as designed (by shortening the the tie link)?

It's been a great week, got promoted 7% raise, can't slow the career down... and finished a few mods to the TL. Thanks for the concern...

harddrivin1le

For your superior knowledge of spring rate constants and preloads, no doubt.

He's running very soft springs in conjunction with a 1.2" drop.

The 1.2" drop is the static drop. His wheels will experience more average dynamic negative camber than someone who's running the same drop with stiffer springs (and dampers). That's because his suspension will deflect more over road imperfections (e.g. bumps).

He will also bottom out more frequently.

And his softer springs are more likely to sag over time.

I don't see how anyone can get back to factory alignment specs with a 1.2" plus static drop without a camber kit. I had one in my '06 Accord (same rear suspension layout as a TL) and got dead nuts in the center of the OEM alignment specs - via an Ingalls camber kit, a state-of-the-art Hunter laser alignment system and a printed sheet to prove it.

The car felt "right on" after that - except for the Buick-like Tein SS/Accord front springs, of course.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

Nice, right back into the jabs... I was trying to play nice. Please let's not get into the springs again... We we're obviosly talking 2 different things, you're talking ideal "tuned' springs, where I was talking practical application. Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

but that's kinda irrelevant to tire wear, as suspension spends a fraction of it's life in a compressed state. It's the static camber that we should focus on for this discussion.

I don't think anyone here will deny any of those staements, as that's the nature of the beast with drop springs. Sure, he'll run the dampeners near thier maximum compression limit too, another shortcoming of drop springs... but I fail to see how they have to do with the question at hand... Camber.

1.2in static drop is about the lowest you can go with the TL and still be in factory specs (albeit) on the high side of about -1.5

but I strongly reccomend against a camber kit for the geometry change it creates.

If you're running wider rims (say +30 offset), then drop, then install a camber kit, the top edge of your wheel is now flush with the bottom | | (as opposed to slightly canted in while dropped with stock camber / \. The tie link being shorter changes the rotation axis as the suspension compresses. The axis radius is shorter, thus when rear suspension compresses your upper wheel edge is further out, making your tire more likely to rub the fender.

But those are just my expereinces.

Some key points from the sticky...

harddrivin1le

Running S tech springs (and OEM dampers) seems silly to me to begin with. Ditto for a +30 mm offset in this car, which in itself screws up front suspension geometry as I've already pointed out in previous posts.


http://www.miata.net/garage/offset.htm

Your comments might be applicable to drops that exceed 1" or so, but I'd have no interest in dropping a car beyond that point. Neither did Honda's engineers when they designed the suspension. It eats into ride height, messes with the suspension geometry, increases the likelihood of bottoming and just plain looks silly to me.

Kennedy

iTrader: (2)

That's cool... To each his own.
I didn't realize this post was about what you would do though. I knew this before your first post on this topic since you've made that same statement in pretty much every thread you've engaged. We're drifting off topic, but certainly answered the OP question. :beat: :deadhorse"

Perhaps a new topic on "scrub radius, was it a factor in your wheel decision?" is in order?

harddrivin1le

I plan on running the OEM wheels as my "3 season wheels." The aftermarkets will be bought from the Tire Rack and fitted with Pirelli 225/50-17s snows. The wheels retain the OEM offset, the OEM width and run $139 each:

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/Wheel...k+w%2FMach+Lip

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

well, i had tein basics, dropped just a shade under 2.0" inches. car rode like crap, but handled well. sure, i bottomed out, and scraped my bumper here and there.

the most important thing to really understand, and this is just my two cents, it is all PURELY AESTHETICS

these drops dont really make your car handle like an M5. they dont make you more aerodynamic, like a ferrari enzo. they just plain ol' make your shit look hot. and no matter who can fight what points (as we have some very knowledgable people in this thread).. dropping a car fcks your shit up. it puts alot of premature wear on certain components, makes it ride sitffer and bouncier, makes you bottom out, etc, etc...

if you dont mind all that, then go ahead and drop it. its really the owners decision, i just dont think alot of people grasp the concept of the negative effects of dropping your car. they only see the pro's (visual appeal)

my x girl had a tsx, and we dropped the sucker with Eibach Sportlines. good 2.25" drop w/o new shocks. drove like hell!!! but looked pretty damn sweet. on both her TSX and my TL, we used no camber kits. did a 4 wheel alignment and adjust toe. cars were fine. My TL had about 9k on it, i pulled the tires, absolutely NO PREMATURE / UNEVEN wear.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

and, and just one thing. i dont remember who said it, but he was defintely right..

honda & acura engineers spend thousands of hours and millions of dollars on engineering these cars pefectly. if the car was meant to have 19" rims & 2.0" drops, they would do it !!! any of that crap will almost always have some type of negative impact on the car, be it subtle or noticeable. but surely, these cars most likely perform BEST with OEM equipment. they just dont look quite as good with it. lol..

harddrivin1le

Ditto for choosing wheels with offsets that are dramatically different than stock and/or are much larger in diameter [which adds (unsprung) weight and inertia] and tires with ultra low sidewalls (which frequently results in bent wheels).

Some people also add the largest rear anti-roll bar they can (since the front is much more difficult to replace), using the "bigger is better" theory and not giving any thought to the dangerous oversteer conditions that could result - particularly in an emergency with rear passengers/cargo.

It's the COMBINATION of some (or all) of those "mods" that can result in a very ill handling car.

Yet, some would undoubtedly claim that such a car "handles better" because it's twitchier and/or can "pull more Gs" (on a billiard smooth surface). There's far more to "handling" than that.

VERY carefully chose aftermarket parts can yield real improvements. A forged, 17 X 8.5" wheel with a +45mm offset fitted with 245/45-17 Eagle F1 DS-D3s would be one example.

Paul_2007S

Wow. Very helpful Thread. You all are mechanical experts when it comes to springs.
I think I've learned about the springs physic today than my whole semester.

XxAfG786xX

this thread is back alive!