JayK

Anybody know the difference in weight in the sway bars. H&R versus Progress, like if they were both 24mm. I know Progress is half price, but H&R makes a much better product. Buuuuuut, If progress is lighter, than I'm ok with it... Trying to save weight here where I can, and it seems these would weigh quite a bit...

Thanx.


noob alert

Quick note, I'm talking about the rear sway bar.

I guess that's obvious at 24mm...

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

Jay, I don't know the answer to your weight question, but I just bought and installed the Progress RSB. I really love it. I was impressed with the weight and solidness of the bar. I've had a good experience with Progress.

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Just get the Progress. I'm pretty sure the H&R is a 22mm too.

I have the Progress and love it. Weight in that area is not your biggest concern at all and the price just makes it all the more worth it.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

especially being down low


and sometimes that additional weight can actually make you faster in turns and such, cause the car is more neutral (or to the driver's likeing)

I hate cars

There are so many variables....

The Progress is 24mm, the H&R is 22mm.

I can't remember which type of steel the H&R bar uses but it tends to be very stiff for it's size. I've pried on a TL-S front bar with an end loose and on my H&R front bar which is 1mm larger than the Type-S and the H&R bar is considerably stiffer.

So there's the chance you could end up with a 22mm bar that's about the same stiffness as a 24mm bar and would likely weigh less but this is just guessing.

Then you need to ask yourself, do you really want the stiffest RSB of the two or not. If you have a base 5at I would do the softer bar, possibly even the Comptech 22mm bar. With the manual trans it's a tossup and with the TL-S I would do the stiffer of the two bars.

Stiffer is not always better, it has to be matched to the rest of the suspension. Increase the rear roll stiffness too much and you end up with a tail happy car.

This is really not the place to try and lose weight, balancing the handling with the right bar will get your farther. If you really want to watch the weight, there are shops that can make you a large diameter hollow bar with adjustable ends but it's not cheap.

Bearcat94

It's a steel bar. How much "better" can one be than the other?

Do you have anything that supports your claim regarding the two RSB's?

I hate cars

I would not have made that statement, my Progress bar has been great (as any piece of metal should lol) and so has my H&R front bar.

I can only speak on the positives of the H&R bars that I've used on the TL and in the past on other cars but the quality is top notch, the bars tend to retain their stiffness throughout their life, and the bushings supplied are excellent, stiff but quiet for years and years and the bar itself is pretty stiff for a given size. That's not to say the same features don't apply to the H&R bar as well. The only thing I can outright say is that the bushings supplied with the H&R bar are slightly superior in theory.

Bearcat94

I do not doubt the quality of H&R parts. I bought their springs partly based on a quality reputation.

My point is, and I think you're agreeing, is that there is no evidence that the Progress part is sub-standard in any meaningful way.

To make an unsupported claim that, with regard to 3G TL RSB's, the H&R part is better is, imho, a dis-service to Progress.

In the 5 years or so that they've been available, I can't think of reading a post reporting a single failure of the Progress part.

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

so are springs on a car's suspension, this one just happens to be alot thicker, longer, and straight compared to being curved in a circle


so what is your question now?

TheDingo

lol

I agree though, I'm very satisfied w/ the Progress bar. I was actually pretty impressed at the noticeable improvement in turning.

Bearcat94

This:

friesm2000

iTrader: (4)

first of all you are no fun

and second, there is a little more then it just being a "steel bar" it does take some engineering with the PROPER steel, to achieve the proper rating and such (let alone the extra's that come with it, can vary quite widely)

btw this happened quite often for Subaru, especially on cars driven on the twisties alot more (like mountain roads), to the point that they actually had to come out with a revised "steel bar" (i think it was mainly just heat treated different)
http://www.scoobyenthusiast.com/suba...subaru-outback




edit: i think they had heat treated that bar a little too brittle, trying to get that much extra stiffness out of it, well it bite them in the ass, with having to revise the bar, and not making it so brittle, and loosing a little stiffness for longtivity

Bearcat94

I'm loads of fun. Ask anybody.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

So someone who is dropped on Teins and prefers a softer setting in the rears should go with the Progress then correct? I have a 5 AT. I also want to change my front sway bar to the 6 MT or Type S.. I think they are the same.

Bearcat94

6MT is 27.2 mm Hollow (5mm)

TL-S is 27mm Solid.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

Did not know that .... thanks ...

frodosphotos

Solid to hollow...Then the TL-S is stiffer, and the 6MT is more forgiving, being that it is hollow? All I know is I will be ordering me a Progress RSB by the end of the week.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

Is this true?

csmeance

His physics are off since he's calculating MAX SHEAR STRESS (the amount the rod can twist before breaking) and as well he's missing the material modulus. As well is equations don't seem right.

Edit Quick google seach on this shows that these are the equations:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/to...fts-d_947.html

I hate cars

That's dumb.

A hollow tube is stronger torsionally for a given weight.

At a given diameter, a solid bar is going to be stronger but weigh considerably more.

Ideally a larger diameter hollow bar would give the best of all worlds but that's not available right now.


I don't know who wrote that but they need a dose of common sense, looks like they got lost in the math. How is going from hollow to solid of the same diameter going to weaken the bar?????????? Maybe they should use .000000001mm wall thickness to really strengthen it.

Maybe the base 6mt front bar was just too stiff so they decided to make it solid to soften it. That makes much more sense than going with a smaller diameter hollow bar.

I've used the calculators before and I wish I could remember the differences. I was playing around and seeing how large a hollow bar would have to be to match a 27mm solid bar. I remember it only took a couple mm to make up the difference. The outer diameter definitely plays the larger roll in torsional stiffness.

Agreed. There comes a point when you have to step back and see if the numbers conflict with basic common sense.

Steven Bell

iTrader: (2)

On a lighter note, I'll vouch for this ^^^^^

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I googled it and pulled that from a BMW forum. I was just curious. Plus, do we even know how thick the walls actually are on the hollow 6mt bars?

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Leave it to the BMW guys to pull that out of their ass. lol

I hate cars

Isn't that the truth lol.

No need to be sorry, he tried to confuse or pretend he knew something by throwing a bunch of numbers up.

I've seen the wall thicknesses posted before. If I remember right, the 27mm 6mt bar has more wall thickness than the 25mm 5at hollow bar. I think it's on Acura's own website.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

Totally off topic. But I'm going through the forum and looking at old threads for sound deadening tips, and sure enough, 4+ years ago, there is IHC giving good advice.

You really should write a 200 page "Ultimate 3G TL" book man. Lol

Slpr04UA6

^Agree with you on that! Maybe the title should be "Ultimate Suspension Guide and Everything else for your 3G TL"!

I hate cars

It was tough in the beginning, FWD was new to me back then. The first time I took it to the track I almost wrecked it since I was so used to RWD. I came into a corner and the front tires started breaking free so I gave it throttle to bring the rear end around a little which resulted in the car going straight instead of turning. This car is the opposite of what I'm used to in many ways but it's been a fun learning curve.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

IHC - Your inbox is full.

Oh and edit: You realize that was your 13000 post?

I hate cars

I need to get a life lol. Just cleared the inbox.

Bearcat94

Yes.

VV

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

Thanks.