ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

I was driving on the freeway a few hours ago, and I took a 50mph curve going about 75. While in the corner, I was firmly gripping the steering wheel, but the car started to kind of shimmy left and right. It felt as if I was about to lose control.

This happened a few other times earlier at lower speeds...where the car would just start moving left and right on its own while in a steady corner at speed.

I'm thinking it might be hub rings, since my rims are 66.1 and the tl is 64.1.

I checked my swaybar endlinks and mounting points, and they're fine. Haven't checked the other suspension components yet.

Any ideas? I really thought the car was going to crash into a wall.

ndabunka

You may want to re-consider what details you place on public boards like this. In the thread you have (1) Stated that you have non-conforming wheels on your TL & (2) That you KNOW that they are non-conforming & (3) Have already experienced the issue/fault on a number of occassions & (4) acknowledged that this issue nearly caused you to wreck (this time).

You may not be aware but an insurance company can reject any claims should anything occur if they run a simple scan on the internet and find this. This is because of everything you have stated above. If you cause damage to others or to others property, insurance can also deny you coverage (for hte same reasons). My recommendation... Change your wheels to ones that aren't dangerous and think a bit more before you post on public forums. Just a few words you may want to consider.

CHiNaMaN440

iTrader: (1)

slow down?

I don't think it would be your hub rings as that would cause wheel vibration

flip_side

iTrader: (6)

glad nothing too bad happened man, the rain sucks in socal right now.

csmeance

do you have hub rings on the rims?

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

No hub rings. I didn't really think they were necessary since it was only a 2mm difference, but I ordered a set tonight. I did get a slight vibration while going straight at 85+ mph.

darksky

I'm dumbfounded by these comments. You're using wheels that by your own admission do not fit your vehicle. You go on to admit to experiencing a 'shimmy left to right' both now and in the past which by your own description 'feels the vehicle was out of control/going to crash into a wall.' Despite these facts, you continue to DRIVE the car and at high speeds no less! I'm no lawyer but consider the consequences of your actions and how they might look to a judge/jury. Losing control and God-forbid causing a crash where either you, your passengers, or someone else on the highway gets injured, maimed, or even killed as a result of your continued negligence. Reckless endangerment? Involuntary manslaughter?

Please stop endangering yourself and more importantly others and either fix or replace your wheels!

mowbro

+1 for darksky.

This is serious stuff. Don't risk your life and the life of those around you. You've been warned. Don't tempt fate. Stuff happens.

the Bro.

Jesstzn

I doubt its the rings as they shouldn't effect anything but maybe a vibration at speed.

What wheels have a center bore that you mentioned. Was it raining? Cold out? How is your alignment? Tires? Lots of info missing.. Car ever been in a wreck?

bookard

This sounds exactly like what I experienced in a test drive of a 3GTL before I bought mine.

I was attacking a constant radius onramp and the car's handling was "SPOOKY" at best. Left/right motions... I suspected stability control was interfereing with my driving experience, but still not sure. Again, I had driven other TLs and had not experienced anything like this in any of them.

I will add that the car was used and from an acura dealer (auto/stock wheels).

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

^ you beat me to it... VSA... thats what you experienced...

1. I was traveling 45mph on a 40mph 2 lane strip and a taureg, who for some reason figured oh I think I could get infront of this 3rd gen tl traveling on the left lane... anyway he did, nearly missing my front... I tapped the brake swerved to the right and as my car went to the right lane the rear began a funny fishytail kind of maneuver... I hit the vsa switch off and regained control by applying brake slight bit of throttle... and as I speed matched with the taureg I flipped em the bird

2. I was traveling on a 3lane strip and it had rained the night before, I was on the right lane, I travel there often... for some reason I had forgoten the right lane tends to have puddles every 200feet or so near the drainage (poor nyc system)... anyway passenger side front went near the puddle no problem, but the rear did not, the rear got loose... I felt it, switched to the middle lane and held the steering wheel straight, since it was the second time I figured why not see what it'll do... the rear began shifting side to side and then it abruptly corrected itself...

conclusion... VSA... good for bad drivers... bad for good drivers

ps. you should always install hubrings... $10 can save your bearings ($150 per side)

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

#1...The wheels DO fit my car. The hub bore is off by 2mm, which really makes no difference if you know anything about aftermarket wheels.

#2...Couldn't have been VSA, it wasn't even on at the time and I was nowhere near losing traction. This was all before it rained yesterday and I've taken that same 50mph curve going about the same speed without any problems.

I'm going to check my shocks and rear camber kit later today. Other than shocks, swaybar, and kit, I have no idea what else it could be since everything else is stock.

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

No rain, 60 degrees out. -1.3 camber, 0 toe all-around, tires are top of the line all-seasons with about 90% tread left, car was in a minor accident involving the passenger rear fender, but the damage was all cosmetic and that was 7 months ago.

HONgDA

iTrader: (1)

yup as stillhere stated, it's the vsa. it doesn't take a genius to know that you shouldn't be taking curves at that speed in the rain or no rain.

Will Y.

Then your TL was at the edge of traction and about to lose it permanently, so slow down. :shakehead

Also remember that many roads were still damp this morning, so that may have lowered the available traction.

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

I've heard that even tho vsa is disabled it is still functional...

Jesstzn

#1.... 2mm is enough to cause vibration but I don't think that was it .

#2 ...... So you physically pushed the button to shut the VSA down before this all happened?

scotterson

iTrader: (4)

You guys should do a little more research before giving people advice.

mowbro

Scotterson,

Just curious.

What type of research do you recommend? I like to do research on car-related stuff.

the Bro.

scotterson

iTrader: (4)

Yes exactly, I recommend car-related research!

FiveLiterCheater

I kind of noticed this too, I think its an alignment issue more than anything. Its either that or the all season ZE912's I have on the stockies right now.

Trew

iTrader: (1)

I'm not here to judge you, so I'll skip all the "you're crazy to drive like that" stuff.

I agree with the VSA post. That's the only thing that could have logically caused it if all other suspension components are intact.

As for the centerbore... 2mm off is 2mm off. The wheel should sit on the hub properly. Though this wouldn't cause the drift you were getting on the turn, it could cause your lugs to snap off if you hit a curb head on or a deep pothole. Go get the wheels bored out to 73.1 and put in a 9mm hub ring. You're much better off that way and your wheels will "fit".

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

Do you have the same negative camber front and rear? If you do, put it back on the alignment rack and dial in more negative in the rear. Give it another -0.5 degree or so and the problem should disappear or at least lessen. This is assuming that your car doesn't have suspension damages or bad bushings.

And please drive with the VSA on. You don't need to turn off VSA when driving on public road. It's there to save you when you're running out of talent.

milk man

was it your car that got smashed on the right rear side?

special-ed

I'm betting one of your shocks are blown or on their way out. As a result, camber is probably way off (more neutral vs negative) on one end compared to the wheel on the other side. Also, you have a type-s and your running on crappy s-techs? Anything is only as good as it's weakest link.

KLTLS

Definatly the VSA

I hate cars

I've experienced this before and it is below the traction limit.

For everyone saying it's VSA, when VSA kicks in, you will feel and hear the ABS motor. There's no doubt when it kicks in.

Mine would get real twitchy in the rear even though I was not at the limit. I found a few reasons for this.

Alignment was one of them. I had the car aligned without the subs. Took it back in with the subs and sure enough the extra weight had thrown the alignment off. Fixing the alignment fixed most of the problem.

Soft shocks combined with little factory suspension travel will make it very scary very quickly. I was able to hit the suspension bumpstops in a hard corner once I installed better than factory tires.

What happens is you corner hard, hit a small imperfection in the road and the suspension bottoms in the rear. This sends it to infinite stiffness (similar to a 100mm RSB lol) and the tires slip a little (the twitchiness). The suspension unloads (unbottoms) once the rear slips. When it unloads the rear tires grab again. Once the rear grabs again, it loads up and bottoms the suspension again and it slips and unloads again. It happens quickly. This is a very scary feeling and I'm used to sliding sideways.

The only way out is to give it a little throttle and to be one step ahead of the rear.

In this instance, a larger RSB can actually help as will good shocks. This is another reason I'm against lowering a TL.

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

It's -1.3 front/-1.5 rear. I just get into the habit of turning VSA off during daily driving...not good.

Yeah

Shocks definitely aren't blown, I'd know if they were. What's wrong with s-techs? (not being defensive, I just really wanna know).

You just summed it all up perfectly.

My alignment is fine though. I just got one four weeks ago from firestone.

Also, koni's are set at 1/2 turn from full stiff in the front, 1 turn in the rear. Could it possibly be the springs...

Piotr_W

Agree

oarichard

iTrader: (3)

glad ur ok! =D

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

FOR ALL THOSE WITH INGALLS CAMBER KITS, READ:

Whenever getting an alignment, make sure the tech TIGHTENS your camber arms all the way. This was the reason for my problems, NOT VSA, NOT the rims, NOT hub rings, and NOT shocks.

My camber arm in the right rear today came completely loose today while driving in the mountains so my camber was changing with every single turn I took. Not to mention the fact that the car was almost undriveable at 20mph and seemed to be tracking sideways.

Jesstzn

You say it came loose .. what part? For the camber to change the center section of the control arm has to rotate. Or was it one of the mounting bolts?

If it was the end mounting bolts .. the alighnment tech doesn't loosen those .. just the lock nuts and rotates the center sleeve.

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

It was the center section that was loose. The mounting bolts were fine.

I ended up taking the car to Firestone with something like -5 camber.

Jesstzn

Ok so he just didn't tighten the lock nuts .. I checked mine after the alignment so I'm ok there .. I'll recheck when I put on the other wheels in a month.

I hate cars

Glad to hear everything is ok and you got it worked out.

How bad did it eat the tires up?

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

Me too.

Tires weren't that badly damaged. The drive back to Firestone was only about 25 miles.

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

Just got back from Firestone, the damage was worse than I had thought.

It wasn't the center section that was loose at all, but the actual mounting point. At the spot where the camber arm connects to the subframe, there is a welded nut in which a bolt goes through that secures the arm to the subframe.

This nut actually broke off of the subframe, and after driving around, the bolt also came loose and the camber arm was free to move around as I drove. To know that I've been driving daily with my suspension like this for over 3 weeks is a testament to my idiocy.

For those of you not following:

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

#28 is the bolt that came loose. It locks into a nut that is very poorly welded to the subframe.

I'm going to the hardware store tomorrow to buy a new bolt and two nuts, as well as some loc-tite. This won't happen again.

Jesstzn

Looks like it was nothing to do with the Ingalls. But a mounting bolt. The alignment tech doesn't work on those.

I hate cars

The so called tech probably used an impact gun on the bolt.

ifirahse

iTrader: (6)

Actually, nothing was the tech's fault, so I'll rescind what I posted earlier.

I'm the one that installed the camber kit, and either a) I didn't torque the bolts down corectly when I installed or b) those nuts welded to the frame were just crappy quality.