Replacing "old" El 42's
04-29-2004 | 05:38 AM
#81
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: NC
Originally Posted by jazzpicker
I have an 04 TL (600 miles) with upgrade BS EL-42's and have noted vibration when first driving the car in the mornings but the problem seems better after driving for a half hour or so but the tires are not acceptable.
I avoided the dealership and called Bridgestone directly and they put me in contact with the local Bridgestone dealer and I was told to bring the car in on the same day. They took the car in immediately and balanced and checked the tires. The manager told me that everything was ok and he would exchange the tires for another set of EL-42's. I told him that tires had a known issue and that I didn't want more of the same. He gave me brochures showing other tires (Turanza LS-Z) and told me to make a decision and call him back. After scanning the posts, I decided on getting the Turanza LS-Z's,and called the manager. He will have them installed Friday morning. (I will check the posts about LS-Z's Again)
After owning many cars in my like I realize this type of exchange can really get nasty but I have to admit that Bridgestone was professional and willing to do the exchange without problems. That is a positive sign for a company.
Since the tires are expensive to replace, I will buy road hazard protection.
Sure, I would rather have Michelins or another brand but Bridgestone is being easy to deal with on this issue and I can't really complain.
I still have a 02 TL with a potential defective transmission and wish that Acura would treat the customers with the same courtesy as Bridgestone.
I avoided the dealership and called Bridgestone directly and they put me in contact with the local Bridgestone dealer and I was told to bring the car in on the same day. They took the car in immediately and balanced and checked the tires. The manager told me that everything was ok and he would exchange the tires for another set of EL-42's. I told him that tires had a known issue and that I didn't want more of the same. He gave me brochures showing other tires (Turanza LS-Z) and told me to make a decision and call him back. After scanning the posts, I decided on getting the Turanza LS-Z's,and called the manager. He will have them installed Friday morning. (I will check the posts about LS-Z's Again)
After owning many cars in my like I realize this type of exchange can really get nasty but I have to admit that Bridgestone was professional and willing to do the exchange without problems. That is a positive sign for a company.
Since the tires are expensive to replace, I will buy road hazard protection.
Sure, I would rather have Michelins or another brand but Bridgestone is being easy to deal with on this issue and I can't really complain.
I still have a 02 TL with a potential defective transmission and wish that Acura would treat the customers with the same courtesy as Bridgestone.
I have had the LS-Z's for almost a week. Seems the vibration at times other than cold mornings is better. I don't really see any difference in quality of ride and quietness though. My other two sets of EL-42's seemed fairly quiet though. I think they may be a little harder and that leads to them handling better. I still notice on some interstate driving my steering wheel will rock back and forth slightly. Some say its the wider tires that tend to track on certain surfaces that cause this, others have said maybe alignment. I would like to know if others experience this same condition.... As far as flatspotting, the morning temps have been warm until this morning. It was 48 degrees this morning when I left and the flatspotting is definately still there! Felt like a washing machine for ten minutes... So all-in-all I would say LS-Z's aren't much better for me.
04-29-2004 | 06:16 AM
#82
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 769
Likes: 2
From: NY
Dheel,
The LS-Z is a Z rated tire compared to the EL42 being a W. Just that alone leads to the sidewall of the LSZ being more rigid by design, which means that it will feel more bumpy or rough when riding on the highway. Tirerack told me that it would be harder ride on the highway, but is a much better built tire.
Flat spotting potential still exists with the EL-Z becuase it uses the same Nylon cord as the EL42.
'02 TL tranny's, my TL-S had 4 replaced and each time they treated me very fast and helped where ever they could.
So in summary would you say that you would not have paid to upgrade to the LS-Z's ?
The LS-Z is a Z rated tire compared to the EL42 being a W. Just that alone leads to the sidewall of the LSZ being more rigid by design, which means that it will feel more bumpy or rough when riding on the highway. Tirerack told me that it would be harder ride on the highway, but is a much better built tire.
Flat spotting potential still exists with the EL-Z becuase it uses the same Nylon cord as the EL42.
'02 TL tranny's, my TL-S had 4 replaced and each time they treated me very fast and helped where ever they could.
So in summary would you say that you would not have paid to upgrade to the LS-Z's ?
04-29-2004 | 07:45 AM
#86
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 37,666
Likes: 3,864
From: Chicago
Originally Posted by roadman
The LS-Z is a Z rated tire compared to the EL42 being a W. Just that alone leads to the sidewall of the LSZ being more rigid by design, which means that it will feel more bumpy or rough when riding on the highway.
Mike
04-29-2004 | 10:26 AM
#87
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,177
Likes: 86
From: NYC/SF/Tokyo/HK
Bridgestone canncelled my LS-Z yesterday.
Just returned from the local Bridgestone dealer after receiving some kind of disappointed phone calls.
Originally, on Monday I had the hand-shake agreement with the owner and their district manager also approved the swap deal for paying the difference between EL42s and LS-Z, it's about $32 per tire, and I should have my new treads on this Friday.
However, after the overwhelming phone calls to Bridgestone from everywhere, the district manager called to that store to cancel my deal and menetioned I have to go back to check with Acura dealer, it's the only way to get the swap done. :banghead:
The owner won't receive any money from Bridgestone if swaping tires for me. This order will be spread out to all tri-state areas.
If you already seal the deal with Bridgestone stores in the past days, please make sure you will get your tires asap.
:o
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?p=777839
Originally, on Monday I had the hand-shake agreement with the owner and their district manager also approved the swap deal for paying the difference between EL42s and LS-Z, it's about $32 per tire, and I should have my new treads on this Friday.
However, after the overwhelming phone calls to Bridgestone from everywhere, the district manager called to that store to cancel my deal and menetioned I have to go back to check with Acura dealer, it's the only way to get the swap done. :banghead:
The owner won't receive any money from Bridgestone if swaping tires for me. This order will be spread out to all tri-state areas.
If you already seal the deal with Bridgestone stores in the past days, please make sure you will get your tires asap.
:o
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?p=777839
04-29-2004 | 02:00 PM
#88
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 769
Likes: 2
From: NY
I have mixed feelings about this being bad news.
1) The swap would have cost a fair amount of money for a problem that you did not create.
2) Many have said that the flat spotting is a result of the nylon cords that both tires have.
3) This really is an Acura problem, they are the OEM provider.
For example, You buy a PC from Dell and 2 days later the Hard Drive goes bad, Does Dell tell you tough luck man call Western Digital, it is their drive, work it out with them.
No they are the OEM provider and as such assume a certain amount of responsibility.
1) The swap would have cost a fair amount of money for a problem that you did not create.
2) Many have said that the flat spotting is a result of the nylon cords that both tires have.
3) This really is an Acura problem, they are the OEM provider.
For example, You buy a PC from Dell and 2 days later the Hard Drive goes bad, Does Dell tell you tough luck man call Western Digital, it is their drive, work it out with them.
No they are the OEM provider and as such assume a certain amount of responsibility.
04-29-2004 | 02:32 PM
#89
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: NC
Originally Posted by roadman
Dheel,
The LS-Z is a Z rated tire compared to the EL42 being a W. Just that alone leads to the sidewall of the LSZ being more rigid by design, which means that it will feel more bumpy or rough when riding on the highway. Tirerack told me that it would be harder ride on the highway, but is a much better built tire.
Flat spotting potential still exists with the EL-Z becuase it uses the same Nylon cord as the EL42.
'02 TL tranny's, my TL-S had 4 replaced and each time they treated me very fast and helped where ever they could.
So in summary would you say that you would not have paid to upgrade to the LS-Z's ?
The LS-Z is a Z rated tire compared to the EL42 being a W. Just that alone leads to the sidewall of the LSZ being more rigid by design, which means that it will feel more bumpy or rough when riding on the highway. Tirerack told me that it would be harder ride on the highway, but is a much better built tire.
Flat spotting potential still exists with the EL-Z becuase it uses the same Nylon cord as the EL42.
'02 TL tranny's, my TL-S had 4 replaced and each time they treated me very fast and helped where ever they could.
So in summary would you say that you would not have paid to upgrade to the LS-Z's ?
No, I don't think I would have paid to upgrade to the LS-Z's. Glad I didn't have to as well given they still flatspot as bad as my other EL-42's. Like I said before also I don't think there is a lot of difference in the ride and quietness either. They do seem to ride firmer, but like the other poster mentioned I would think a Z rated tire would ride not has firm as a W rated, which is speed-rated less. But I guess it boils down to how the tire is made and designed... If I could have I would have liked to swapped the new LS-Z's out for the Michelins somehow. They seem to be the only ones with a different type of nylon-material not to flatspot. Has anyone reported any flatspoting and vibration with the Pilot Sport A/S? Falkens? Seems the Pirellis flatspot some as well. I wonder if a 50 series tire would help any, if it would fit and not rub. Anyone?
04-29-2004 | 05:02 PM
#90
Racer
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by roadman
Here is the scoop on the 'Old" EL-42's.
First PVC and TU2 are identical tires, no changes at all between the 2. An old TU2 would be a TU1. The code stands for T=Turanza, U=Dealer code, 2= version #. BS provided the info on the codes. They did offer the breakdown of PVC.
But some feel that Acura had to do something with all the people that were complaining, so they tell them that there is a new tire. By coincidence these new tires have become available as soon as the weather has heated up, hence no Flat spotting. The nylon belts in the EL42 coupled with cold weather is the reason why the tire flat spots.
Any EL-42 will flat spot in the cold.
First PVC and TU2 are identical tires, no changes at all between the 2. An old TU2 would be a TU1. The code stands for T=Turanza, U=Dealer code, 2= version #. BS provided the info on the codes. They did offer the breakdown of PVC.
But some feel that Acura had to do something with all the people that were complaining, so they tell them that there is a new tire. By coincidence these new tires have become available as soon as the weather has heated up, hence no Flat spotting. The nylon belts in the EL42 coupled with cold weather is the reason why the tire flat spots.
Any EL-42 will flat spot in the cold.
04-29-2004 | 05:10 PM
#91
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 1
From: Baltimore, MD
Originally Posted by Peters
Well, I don't know exactly where you got this information, but that's not what's been explained to me, nor is it consistent with the data I've seen. Quite the allegation you're making.
Still, the weather warming up "just in time" argument doesn't cut it. TLs with the reformulated tires started rolling into dealerships in early March, and a lot of the east coast, including where I live, experienced some frigid weather thereafter. During the first two weeks I had my TL, we had some mornings in the upper 20s. I experienced NO flatspotting whatsoever.
I don't submit that as "proof" of anything, but it suggests that the reformulated tires may indeed be different, and improved.
04-29-2004 | 05:20 PM
#92
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 769
Likes: 2
From: NY
Originally Posted by Peters
Well, I don't know exactly where you got this information, but that's not what's been explained to me, nor is it consistent with the data I've seen. Quite the allegation you're making.
Call Bridgestone Engineering @ 800-847-3272 for yourself, they told me. Then you can confirm what I was told.
04-29-2004 | 05:24 PM
#93
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 769
Likes: 2
From: NY
Originally Posted by dheel
No, I don't think I would have paid to upgrade to the LS-Z's. Glad I didn't have to as well given they still flatspot as bad as my other EL-42's. Like I said before also I don't think there is a lot of difference in the ride and quietness either. They do seem to ride firmer, but like the other poster mentioned I would think a Z rated tire would ride not has firm as a W rated, which is speed-rated less. But I guess it boils down to how the tire is made and designed... If I could have I would have liked to swapped the new LS-Z's out for the Michelins somehow. They seem to be the only ones with a different type of nylon-material not to flatspot. Has anyone reported any flatspoting and vibration with the Pilot Sport A/S? Falkens? Seems the Pirellis flatspot some as well. I wonder if a 50 series tire would help any, if it would fit and not rub. Anyone?
A 50 series Z compared to a 45 series Z would have to have a firmer sidewall, hence a firmer ride. (As per Tirerack Rep 888-541-1777)
04-29-2004 | 05:30 PM
#94
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
Likes: 740
From: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by roadman
I have mixed feelings about this being bad news.
1) The swap would have cost a fair amount of money for a problem that you did not create.
2) Many have said that the flat spotting is a result of the nylon cords that both tires have.
3) This really is an Acura problem, they are the OEM provider.
For example, You buy a PC from Dell and 2 days later the Hard Drive goes bad, Does Dell tell you tough luck man call Western Digital, it is their drive, work it out with them.
No they are the OEM provider and as such assume a certain amount of responsibility.
1) The swap would have cost a fair amount of money for a problem that you did not create.
2) Many have said that the flat spotting is a result of the nylon cords that both tires have.
3) This really is an Acura problem, they are the OEM provider.
For example, You buy a PC from Dell and 2 days later the Hard Drive goes bad, Does Dell tell you tough luck man call Western Digital, it is their drive, work it out with them.
No they are the OEM provider and as such assume a certain amount of responsibility.
I have mixed feelings about this as every car mfg. tells you to not call them for tire issues, the tires are warranted by tire mfg. Well if Bridgestone let Acura put crap on the car they have some responsibility. Now that being said Acura and the dealers should have to step up more than Bridgestone. The LS-Z does flat spot, so far not as bad as the EL42 and it runs out much quicker. As I have said in other threads I took the LS-Zs as the prices was right and Bridgestone was concerned about me being happy. If they wanted a few hundred for the swap I would be on Michelins now. I also feel they will proabbly flat spot bad enough next winter to casue me to buy some Michelins, but at least I got a year out of some tires in the long run.
04-29-2004 | 05:32 PM
#95
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 1
From: Baltimore, MD
With all due respect, roadman, I'll leave the investigation to others. I'm not trying to come across rude - you're entitled to your opinion and you may well be right. But I happen to like the 42s - they're not great by any means, but they'll do for me - so I have little interest in the "bottom line" one way or the other.
04-29-2004 | 05:48 PM
#97
Racer
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: Toronto, Canada
Experience
In all seriousness, I had quite an elaborate discussion and meeting with Acura on this issue. My "new" tires have experienced cold weather here in Toronto and they certainly don't flatspot like they used to. To me, they certainly feel softer than the old tires and I like that, and mine were quite early builds as I took delivery in November.
04-29-2004 | 05:54 PM
#98
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by KeithL
:lol1:No offense...
I would think anyone willing to drop some serious bling on rims would ditch them crappy tires!!
No question the tires are low rent. But my point is isolating the vibration originates from. Some threads have identified changing the OEM rims with new OEM rims still using the EL42's and had their vibration problem solved. So it's been suggested that the wheels could be a problem, too.
04-29-2004 | 07:13 PM
#99
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: NH
Contacted Acura and they will replace the old EL42 with new ones. Contacted BS and the store mgr could only offer to replace my old EL42 with Turanza LS-Z at a cost of $206.00 for four tires. He cannot offer a free swap since the LS-Z cost $50.00 more per tire.
04-29-2004 | 07:20 PM
#100
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
Likes: 740
From: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by 2004Mist
Contacted Acura and they will replace the old EL42 with new ones. Contacted BS and the store mgr could only offer to replace my old EL42 with Turanza LS-Z at a cost of $206.00 for four tires. He cannot offer a free swap since the LS-Z cost $50.00 more per tire.
04-29-2004 | 07:50 PM
#102
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,177
Likes: 86
From: NYC/SF/Tokyo/HK
See what I found out...
In my local Bridgestone dealership, they list $291.99 per LS-Z, and $259.99 per EL42, they are $32 difference here...
:o
I think online stores have different price... they're supposed to be cheaper than the local stores... in big sales situstion, they should be having more discount than stores, too.
In my local Bridgestone dealership, they list $291.99 per LS-Z, and $259.99 per EL42, they are $32 difference here...
:o
I think online stores have different price... they're supposed to be cheaper than the local stores... in big sales situstion, they should be having more discount than stores, too.
04-29-2004 | 07:55 PM
#103
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
Likes: 740
From: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by rets
See what I found out...
In my local Bridgestone dealership, they list $291.99 per LS-Z, and $259.99 per EL42, they are $32 difference here...
:o
I think online stores have different price... they're supposed to be cheaper than the local stores... in big sales situstion, they should be having more discount than stores, too.
In my local Bridgestone dealership, they list $291.99 per LS-Z, and $259.99 per EL42, they are $32 difference here...
:o
I think online stores have different price... they're supposed to be cheaper than the local stores... in big sales situstion, they should be having more discount than stores, too.
04-29-2004 | 08:01 PM
#105
Moderator Alumnus
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 12,177
Likes: 86
From: NYC/SF/Tokyo/HK
I got some computer print-out... it stated:
$291.99, 110035 Turanza LS-Z 235/45ZR17 TLBL PS
$190.99, 100536 Potenza RE950 235/45R17 TLBL PS
$150.99, 025339 Potenza G009 TL BL PS 235/45R17 94H
I was so surprised by its price at that time... almost 40% more to online stores...
Price should be varied by areas... GA has cheaper price?
:o
$291.99, 110035 Turanza LS-Z 235/45ZR17 TLBL PS
$190.99, 100536 Potenza RE950 235/45R17 TLBL PS
$150.99, 025339 Potenza G009 TL BL PS 235/45R17 94H
I was so surprised by its price at that time... almost 40% more to online stores...
Price should be varied by areas... GA has cheaper price?
:o
04-29-2004 | 08:09 PM
#106
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 769
Likes: 2
From: NY
$291.99 for a LS-Z, I heard it was good but man it better be good for almost 3-C notes each.
I was at a Mavis Discount Tire store the other day and they said that they most of their tires from Tirerack
I was at a Mavis Discount Tire store the other day and they said that they most of their tires from Tirerack
04-29-2004 | 09:28 PM
#107
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
Likes: 740
From: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by roadman
$291.99 for a LS-Z, I heard it was good but man it better be good for almost 3-C notes each.
I was at a Mavis Discount Tire store the other day and they said that they most of their tires from Tirerack
I was at a Mavis Discount Tire store the other day and they said that they most of their tires from Tirerack
04-30-2004 | 07:01 AM
#109
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Washington, dc
New 42s lessen rattles?
For those that replaced the old with new 42s, did it that lessen any rattle problelms? My dealer suggested chaaging the tires first then address rattles.
I live in DC where the roads are really bad. These darn roads would probably cause Rtls in the very tightest machines.
I live in DC where the roads are really bad. These darn roads would probably cause Rtls in the very tightest machines.
04-30-2004 | 11:45 AM
#110
Thread Starter
10th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Northridge, CA
Replacements Being Installed Now
My replacement EL 42's are being installed as I write this. I am cautiously hopeful that there will be some relief from some of the minor rattles and a smoother ride overall. We'll see what happens........ :think:
04-30-2004 | 11:56 AM
#111
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Washington, dc
Originally Posted by neal831
My replacement EL 42's are being installed as I write this. I am cautiously hopeful that there will be some relief from some of the minor rattles and a smoother ride overall. We'll see what happens........ :think:
04-30-2004 | 03:26 PM
#112
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Northern Ohio
Let us know!
Originally Posted by neal831
My replacement EL 42's are being installed as I write this. I am cautiously hopeful that there will be some relief from some of the minor rattles and a smoother ride overall. We'll see what happens........ :think:
04-30-2004 | 03:30 PM
#113
Administrator
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 16,407
Likes: 1,027
Originally Posted by ramilford
Me too! I will be very interested in the results and any comments you can make. I will be getting my new ELs next week.
04-30-2004 | 03:38 PM
#114
CEO, Team Anthracite
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 0
From: Bear Territory
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4846067/
Read that article about a new tire compound... pretty interesting. It's a summary/transcript of something that aired on 4/27/04.
Read that article about a new tire compound... pretty interesting. It's a summary/transcript of something that aired on 4/27/04.
04-30-2004 | 07:42 PM
#116
Racer
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 385
Likes: 3
From: Gulf Coast Florida
LS-Z's
As promised the Bridgestone/Firestone dealer called this morning to inform me that my LS-Z's were in and to bring my car in today to replace the El-42s.
THe tires were installed with no additional cost but I elected to buy road hazard and lifetime balancing for an additional $80 something dollars. Unfortunately I was unable to give the tires a good trial today and will report later on the results.
I think Bridgestone is trying it's best to overcome it's past problems and is seems to be making a positive step. If the LS-Z's turn out to be sh!t, I will just suck it up and buy another brand. I am not going to drive a car for 40,000 miles and pissed off about the tires the entire time.
THe tires were installed with no additional cost but I elected to buy road hazard and lifetime balancing for an additional $80 something dollars. Unfortunately I was unable to give the tires a good trial today and will report later on the results.
I think Bridgestone is trying it's best to overcome it's past problems and is seems to be making a positive step. If the LS-Z's turn out to be sh!t, I will just suck it up and buy another brand. I am not going to drive a car for 40,000 miles and pissed off about the tires the entire time.
04-30-2004 | 08:29 PM
#117
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,172
Likes: 740
From: Atlanta, GA
Originally Posted by jazzpicker
As promised the Bridgestone/Firestone dealer called this morning to inform me that my LS-Z's were in and to bring my car in today to replace the El-42s.
THe tires were installed with no additional cost but I elected to buy road hazard and lifetime balancing for an additional $80 something dollars. Unfortunately I was unable to give the tires a good trial today and will report later on the results.
I think Bridgestone is trying it's best to overcome it's past problems and is seems to be making a positive step. If the LS-Z's turn out to be sh!t, I will just suck it up and buy another brand. I am not going to drive a car for 40,000 miles and pissed off about the tires the entire time.
THe tires were installed with no additional cost but I elected to buy road hazard and lifetime balancing for an additional $80 something dollars. Unfortunately I was unable to give the tires a good trial today and will report later on the results.
I think Bridgestone is trying it's best to overcome it's past problems and is seems to be making a positive step. If the LS-Z's turn out to be sh!t, I will just suck it up and buy another brand. I am not going to drive a car for 40,000 miles and pissed off about the tires the entire time.
04-30-2004 | 10:18 PM
#118
Thread Starter
10th Gear
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
From: Northridge, CA
Can You Believe It!!
Left my car at the Acura dealer and arrived at 6 PM to try out my "new" tires. When I checked the sidewall what did I see....PVC! Unless I am mistaken, those are not the new EL's. I thought they were labeled TU2, at least thats what I have read all through this forum and other forums on the TL. I asked the Service Manager what the story was and he said they were the new tires and the ones Acura said to install. We checked three new TL's on the lot (amazing that they had that many, but thats another story!) and all had the TU2's on them. So, I am back to square one, waiting for them to call and check it out on Monday. And it means another trip to the dealer when they find out they need to replace them. Before I insist on replacement, am I correct about the PVC versus TU2? Isn't the TU2 the new ones? Any chance any PVC's are considered newer tires? Prob what happened is that these were the newest tires at the source, not newest version of the tire. 