Which kit handles better????
01-30-2010, 07:02 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Which kit handles better????
i dont want to spend over a G on suspension and i dont want to go stupid slammed either.
i want to know which would handle better neuspeed super cup kit or the OEM A-spec suspension.
i need your
i want to know which would handle better neuspeed super cup kit or the OEM A-spec suspension.
i need your
01-31-2010, 03:17 PM
#4
Team Owner
All you're going to get is opinions.
What I can tell you is I've had the a-spec at the limit and past the limit many times and it's great. What you get with the a-spec is not only a stiffer, slightly lower ride but it changes the handling balance more toward neutral instead of the massive understeer from the factory. While some suspensions may ride stiffer or corner flatter, this balance is what will get you through the corners quicker even if there is more body roll.
With this suspension you retain most of the factory travel. This greatly enhances handling in real life situations over bumps.
Body roll is not the end of the world on the TL since it goes into negative camber. I would choose good balance anyday.
What I can tell you is I've had the a-spec at the limit and past the limit many times and it's great. What you get with the a-spec is not only a stiffer, slightly lower ride but it changes the handling balance more toward neutral instead of the massive understeer from the factory. While some suspensions may ride stiffer or corner flatter, this balance is what will get you through the corners quicker even if there is more body roll.
With this suspension you retain most of the factory travel. This greatly enhances handling in real life situations over bumps.
Body roll is not the end of the world on the TL since it goes into negative camber. I would choose good balance anyday.
01-31-2010, 04:30 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
All you're going to get is opinions.
What I can tell you is I've had the a-spec at the limit and past the limit many times and it's great. What you get with the a-spec is not only a stiffer, slightly lower ride but it changes the handling balance more toward neutral instead of the massive understeer from the factory. While some suspensions may ride stiffer or corner flatter, this balance is what will get you through the corners quicker even if there is more body roll.
With this suspension you retain most of the factory travel. This greatly enhances handling in real life situations over bumps.
Body roll is not the end of the world on the TL since it goes into negative camber. I would choose good balance anyday.
What I can tell you is I've had the a-spec at the limit and past the limit many times and it's great. What you get with the a-spec is not only a stiffer, slightly lower ride but it changes the handling balance more toward neutral instead of the massive understeer from the factory. While some suspensions may ride stiffer or corner flatter, this balance is what will get you through the corners quicker even if there is more body roll.
With this suspension you retain most of the factory travel. This greatly enhances handling in real life situations over bumps.
Body roll is not the end of the world on the TL since it goes into negative camber. I would choose good balance anyday.
01-31-2010, 07:37 PM
#6
Team Owner
01-31-2010, 11:58 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Trending Topics
01-31-2010, 11:59 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
02-01-2010, 01:23 AM
#9
I have Neuspeed race springs with Koni SP3s. Car handles neutral with a slight hint of understeer when pushed to the limit.
Progress RSB is pretty self-explanatory. I keep mine at the street setting.
I'm pretty sure that the Neuspeed kit will blow A-spec/Koni out of the water in terms of pure performance.
02-01-2010, 01:58 AM
#10
Progress RSB is a must. I haven't lowered my car yet and probably wont for the time being. The RSB is my only suspension mod so far and the difference is night and day. Going on and off onramps at 30-40mph without having to brake and less body roll ...
02-01-2010, 06:56 AM
#11
Team Owner
02-01-2010, 07:04 AM
#12
Team Owner
02-01-2010, 11:49 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
ahem! anyways lol. should i get the sway bar before i get aspec/neuspeed or what ever i decide to get?
02-01-2010, 12:41 PM
#14
CBP 6MT
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That's really up to you. The RSB is cheap, compared to coilovers or any other suspension mod. Plus, like the other guys have said, it makes a world of difference. I think if you're going to invest money in your suspension, you should definitely get a RSB somewhere down the road.
02-01-2010, 03:49 PM
#16
I think it would be a good race, Elliot you would have the advantage on straights for sure since your car is fast as hell. On the corners, I think the tires would make more of a difference than the suspension in this case since both cars have good suspension. I hate cars has some sticky tires IIRC he has those Nitto NT05s. So I would give him the advantage in the corners.
02-01-2010, 07:02 PM
#17
Team Owner
I'm not upset at all, we need some real comparisons like this to take the theory out of these discussions. This would put an end to a lot of debates.
AnthraciteAspec, you and some of the LA guys should go too. It would be a fun comparison.
02-01-2010, 10:46 PM
#18
I'm a drag racing redneck, we can't take corners. But to make it fair we can trade cars back and forth if you want to take driving skill out of the equation. Remember, mine is bone stock in the power department.
I'm not upset at all, we need some real comparisons like this to take the theory out of these discussions. This would put an end to a lot of debates.
AnthraciteAspec, you and some of the LA guys should go too. It would be a fun comparison.
I'm not upset at all, we need some real comparisons like this to take the theory out of these discussions. This would put an end to a lot of debates.
AnthraciteAspec, you and some of the LA guys should go too. It would be a fun comparison.
02-01-2010, 11:19 PM
#19
Team Owner
I'll find out tomorrow. One of the new hires at work is an instructor at Willow so he should know. I've got my friend with the CL65 ready to go too. We should make a whole day of it and lots of pics/videos. I hope my old man reflexes are not too bad.
02-01-2010, 11:31 PM
#22
Team Owner
I know what that's like. I'm in an apartment too and have car and bike stuff everywhere. I left a set of heads as the centerpiece on the dinner table but the GF wasn't too happy. Luckily one of the bedrooms is dedicated to just car and bicycle stuff. I miss my house.
02-01-2010, 11:36 PM
#23
I'm just wondering though, what are you basing your assumption that A-spec/Koni will handle better than Neuspeed Race/Koni SP3 on?
You're lighter than me, but we have identical suspension components otherwise.
You have wider, stickier tires, but I do have 245/35/19 PS2's in the rear and Falkens up front, as well as some 20lb rims.
And don't forget, I'm driving an (almost) fully modded Type-S here.
If you're up for it, I think we can put a little cheddar on top of everything...loser pays for the winner's track fees?
You're lighter than me, but we have identical suspension components otherwise.
You have wider, stickier tires, but I do have 245/35/19 PS2's in the rear and Falkens up front, as well as some 20lb rims.
And don't forget, I'm driving an (almost) fully modded Type-S here.
If you're up for it, I think we can put a little cheddar on top of everything...loser pays for the winner's track fees?
02-02-2010, 01:26 AM
#24
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I'm just wondering though, what are you basing your assumption that A-spec/Koni will handle better than Neuspeed Race/Koni SP3 on?
You're lighter than me, but we have identical suspension components otherwise.
You have wider, stickier tires, but I do have 245/35/19 PS2's in the rear and Falkens up front, as well as some 20lb rims.
And don't forget, I'm driving an (almost) fully modded Type-S here.
If you're up for it, I think we can put a little cheddar on top of everything...loser pays for the winner's track fees?
You're lighter than me, but we have identical suspension components otherwise.
You have wider, stickier tires, but I do have 245/35/19 PS2's in the rear and Falkens up front, as well as some 20lb rims.
And don't forget, I'm driving an (almost) fully modded Type-S here.
If you're up for it, I think we can put a little cheddar on top of everything...loser pays for the winner's track fees?
02-02-2010, 02:43 AM
#25
lol Elliot if you guys do this I want to go. I can bring my camcorder and get video
Gah I know, wife and I are saving for a house. We actually have enough for a decent sized down payment right now but we are waiting on her job situation. I wanted to buy a house already but she works for the DoD and at the end of this year she could get placed in another state, or even another country. Her job is the priority she already makes more money than me and by the end of the year she will be makin about double what I make. I kind of want to buy right now though and if we do have to move, just rent the place out. If housing prices continue to go down over the next year, then I guess waiting will be the right decision. My dad on the other hand is hoping otherwise, his house already dropped from 1.2 mil to around 700k 
I know what that's like. I'm in an apartment too and have car and bike stuff everywhere. I left a set of heads as the centerpiece on the dinner table but the GF wasn't too happy. Luckily one of the bedrooms is dedicated to just car and bicycle stuff. I miss my house.
02-02-2010, 02:46 AM
#26
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
does any1 have pictures of true aspec suspension both shocks and springs??? i wanna see what the stance looks like and how low it is. multiple pics would help
02-02-2010, 07:28 AM
#27
Team Owner
I'm just wondering though, what are you basing your assumption that A-spec/Koni will handle better than Neuspeed Race/Koni SP3 on?
You're lighter than me, but we have identical suspension components otherwise.
You have wider, stickier tires, but I do have 245/35/19 PS2's in the rear and Falkens up front, as well as some 20lb rims.
And don't forget, I'm driving an (almost) fully modded Type-S here.
If you're up for it, I think we can put a little cheddar on top of everything...loser pays for the winner's track fees?
You're lighter than me, but we have identical suspension components otherwise.
You have wider, stickier tires, but I do have 245/35/19 PS2's in the rear and Falkens up front, as well as some 20lb rims.
And don't forget, I'm driving an (almost) fully modded Type-S here.
If you're up for it, I think we can put a little cheddar on top of everything...loser pays for the winner's track fees?
02-02-2010, 09:24 AM
#28
I'm just wondering though, what are you basing your assumption that A-spec/Koni will handle better than Neuspeed Race/Koni SP3 on?
You're lighter than me, but we have identical suspension components otherwise.
You have wider, stickier tires, but I do have 245/35/19 PS2's in the rear and Falkens up front, as well as some 20lb rims.
And don't forget, I'm driving an (almost) fully modded Type-S here.
If you're up for it, I think we can put a little cheddar on top of everything...loser pays for the winner's track fees?
You're lighter than me, but we have identical suspension components otherwise.
You have wider, stickier tires, but I do have 245/35/19 PS2's in the rear and Falkens up front, as well as some 20lb rims.
And don't forget, I'm driving an (almost) fully modded Type-S here.
If you're up for it, I think we can put a little cheddar on top of everything...loser pays for the winner's track fees?
this will be SWEET! you guys betta take vids and pics for us mid-west/east coast folk! 
02-02-2010, 07:30 PM
#31
Team Owner
02-02-2010, 07:46 PM
#32
As for balance, that's not something I can easily compare with yours, but I have spent a couple hours fine-tuning my dampening front and rear and I feel like it's set pretty well.
This is the road I take everyday to and from home, so I've had many chances to put my suspension to the test:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...=UTF8&t=h&z=14
I do understand where you're coming from in saying that A-spec is designed for the car, but in the end it is Honda's compromise between sport and comfort, while Neuspeed race is pretty much all-sport.
I don't know why I'm spending so much time arguing my point here. I guess it's just because I truly do believe that the Neuspeed kit is the best handling kit out there for our cars.
02-02-2010, 08:20 PM
#33
Team Owner
I wouldn't say I'm slammed, just lowered:
As for balance, that's not something I can easily compare with yours, but I have spent a couple hours fine-tuning my dampening front and rear and I feel like it's set pretty well.
This is the road I take everyday to and from home, so I've had many chances to put my suspension to the test:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...=UTF8&t=h&z=14
I do understand where you're coming from in saying that A-spec is designed for the car, but in the end it is Honda's compromise between sport and comfort, while Neuspeed race is pretty much all-sport.
I don't know why I'm spending so much time arguing my point here. I guess it's just because I truly do believe that the Neuspeed kit is the best handling kit out there for our cars.
As for balance, that's not something I can easily compare with yours, but I have spent a couple hours fine-tuning my dampening front and rear and I feel like it's set pretty well.
This is the road I take everyday to and from home, so I've had many chances to put my suspension to the test:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...=UTF8&t=h&z=14
I do understand where you're coming from in saying that A-spec is designed for the car, but in the end it is Honda's compromise between sport and comfort, while Neuspeed race is pretty much all-sport.
I don't know why I'm spending so much time arguing my point here. I guess it's just because I truly do believe that the Neuspeed kit is the best handling kit out there for our cars.
The problem here is you're saying you believe yours handles the best with nothing to back it up. I've taken mine out and fine tuned it and raced against other cars, some with well over 50hp on me. My friend's IS350 flat out embarasses me in a straight line, not even a close race. But put us on a local "track" and it's embarassing. I can brake so much later and carry so much more speed through a corner it's almost funny. On a tight track it's not even a race. This is an IS350 with the sport suspension and 13.5" or whatever size the big brakes are on those cars. Of course the IS350 isn't exactly the benchmark of great cornering cars but I'm not too worried about someone with more power than me on a tight course. I have full confidence at Streets. Take our cars out on the larger track and you may just go around me but I have a feeling it's going to be you pulling away pretty bad on the straights and me catching you during braking and cornering. I haven't asked yet, do you have a manual or auto?
02-02-2010, 09:06 PM
#34
The car sits nice, definately one of the best looking TLs.
The problem here is you're saying you believe yours handles the best with nothing to back it up. I've taken mine out and fine tuned it and raced against other cars, some with well over 50hp on me. My friend's IS350 flat out embarasses me in a straight line, not even a close race. But put us on a local "track" and it's embarassing. I can brake so much later and carry so much more speed through a corner it's almost funny. On a tight track it's not even a race. This is an IS350 with the sport suspension and 13.5" or whatever size the big brakes are on those cars. Of course the IS350 isn't exactly the benchmark of great cornering cars but I'm not too worried about someone with more power than me on a tight course. I have full confidence at Streets. Take our cars out on the larger track and you may just go around me but I have a feeling it's going to be you pulling away pretty bad on the straights and me catching you during braking and cornering. I haven't asked yet, do you have a manual or auto?
The problem here is you're saying you believe yours handles the best with nothing to back it up. I've taken mine out and fine tuned it and raced against other cars, some with well over 50hp on me. My friend's IS350 flat out embarasses me in a straight line, not even a close race. But put us on a local "track" and it's embarassing. I can brake so much later and carry so much more speed through a corner it's almost funny. On a tight track it's not even a race. This is an IS350 with the sport suspension and 13.5" or whatever size the big brakes are on those cars. Of course the IS350 isn't exactly the benchmark of great cornering cars but I'm not too worried about someone with more power than me on a tight course. I have full confidence at Streets. Take our cars out on the larger track and you may just go around me but I have a feeling it's going to be you pulling away pretty bad on the straights and me catching you during braking and cornering. I haven't asked yet, do you have a manual or auto?
Enough back and forth here, I'm down for the track meet whenever you are.
02-02-2010, 10:03 PM
#36
Team Owner
02-02-2010, 10:08 PM
#37
Team Owner
I talked to the instructor at work (he's a bike instructor) and he basically said to go to the website and find a carclub day and book it. He didn't have a whole lot of info on cars since he focuses on bikes. Going to look right now. I really want to do it before it starts warming up for the car's sake. I want to get more acurazine people to go in on it but I'm not waiting any longer than early March so maybe we should start a new thread specifically on getting people involved in a track meet.
02-03-2010, 07:05 AM
#38
Safety Car
Videos, videos, videos
GoPro on-board video camera for motorsports (click here)
The standard resolution (not HD) camera is just $199. For YouTube, we don't need the HD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI7x706ODVM
GoPro on-board video camera for motorsports (click here)
The standard resolution (not HD) camera is just $199. For YouTube, we don't need the HD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OI7x706ODVM
02-03-2010, 02:24 PM
#40
Racer
I have an '05 Auto with full A-Spec suspension installed December 2008. I installed the Progress RSB 6 months before that. back in October, I helped my cousin install his Neuspeed Supercup kit with the Sport (Red powder coat) springs onto his 2008 TL Type-S Auto. We set the rings on the SP3 Koni struts at the 4th perch setting (1 down from the tallest setting).
I've driven his car a few times after we fine tuned the dampening rates on the Konis. I've ridden in it over 5 hour road trips as well. I know this is still inconclusive, but I'm going to side with 'I hate cars' as far as handling is concerned between the Supercup Kit (with sport springs) vs. A-spec Suspension. I can't attest to the Race springs which I imagine is lower and has higher spring rates.
My Driving Impressions:
2008 Type-S Auto w/Neuspeed Supercup Kit on Sport Springs
Pros
+Cornering is extremely flat although I wasn't able to test through bumpy conditions
+Ride overall is pretty firm but comfortable. Smaller bumps are dampened well and feel pillow soft initially as car dips.
+Great looking stance
Cons
- Granted it's a Type-S and nose heavy, there is very little front suspension travel to handle medium to large sized dips and bumps. Especially with 2 people riding in front (~350lbs).
- Front suspension bottoms out over a series of bumps on poor roads even on almost full soft dampening.
- I can't remember if they were progressive or not, but the Neuspeed Sport Springs feel almost as if they're progressive since they're so soft initially and then become very firm when loaded.
2005 TL Auto w/A-Spec suspension + Progress RSB (Track setting)
Pros:
+ Cornering is pretty flat under full loading, but there is still a good amount lean in a predictable/balanced manner.
+ Absorbs small bumps/section joins confidently in every situation (in during aggressive cornering).
+ Suspension almost never bottoms out (I have on rare occasions into deep potholes).
+ Spring rates feel more linear making it very predictable
Cons:
- Smaller bumps feel stiffer compared to the Supercup Kit with sport springs. They do not get more harsh as they become loaded.
Overall, I side with 'I hate cars' because I am confident that the A-Spec has the proper suspension travel to handle bumpy/rough corners better than the Supercup kit with either Sport or Race springs. Considering I'm able to hit the bump stops on the 4th highest perch going down a straight road with the Sport springs on, I have a hard time believing there is adequate travel to absorb a bump as well as the A-Spec when taken to the limit around a bend. The A-Spec on the other hand has the ability to inhibit a slight lean under hard cornering which seems to enhance grip more than anything else. The Progress RSB counters this leaning factor and allows me to maintain control when I have to swerve the other way.
Overall, I enjoy both suspensions, but I'll still take my A-Spec over the Supercup kit. I am through with the days of bottoming out my car on steep driveways and large speed bumps. I am definitely intrigued in doing the Koni SP3/A-Spec spring combination as 'I hate cars' has done in the future if I ever wear out the A-Spec struts.
I've driven his car a few times after we fine tuned the dampening rates on the Konis. I've ridden in it over 5 hour road trips as well. I know this is still inconclusive, but I'm going to side with 'I hate cars' as far as handling is concerned between the Supercup Kit (with sport springs) vs. A-spec Suspension. I can't attest to the Race springs which I imagine is lower and has higher spring rates.
My Driving Impressions:
2008 Type-S Auto w/Neuspeed Supercup Kit on Sport Springs
Pros
+Cornering is extremely flat although I wasn't able to test through bumpy conditions
+Ride overall is pretty firm but comfortable. Smaller bumps are dampened well and feel pillow soft initially as car dips.
+Great looking stance
Cons
- Granted it's a Type-S and nose heavy, there is very little front suspension travel to handle medium to large sized dips and bumps. Especially with 2 people riding in front (~350lbs).
- Front suspension bottoms out over a series of bumps on poor roads even on almost full soft dampening.
- I can't remember if they were progressive or not, but the Neuspeed Sport Springs feel almost as if they're progressive since they're so soft initially and then become very firm when loaded.
2005 TL Auto w/A-Spec suspension + Progress RSB (Track setting)
Pros:
+ Cornering is pretty flat under full loading, but there is still a good amount lean in a predictable/balanced manner.
+ Absorbs small bumps/section joins confidently in every situation (in during aggressive cornering).
+ Suspension almost never bottoms out (I have on rare occasions into deep potholes).
+ Spring rates feel more linear making it very predictable
Cons:
- Smaller bumps feel stiffer compared to the Supercup Kit with sport springs. They do not get more harsh as they become loaded.
Overall, I side with 'I hate cars' because I am confident that the A-Spec has the proper suspension travel to handle bumpy/rough corners better than the Supercup kit with either Sport or Race springs. Considering I'm able to hit the bump stops on the 4th highest perch going down a straight road with the Sport springs on, I have a hard time believing there is adequate travel to absorb a bump as well as the A-Spec when taken to the limit around a bend. The A-Spec on the other hand has the ability to inhibit a slight lean under hard cornering which seems to enhance grip more than anything else. The Progress RSB counters this leaning factor and allows me to maintain control when I have to swerve the other way.
Overall, I enjoy both suspensions, but I'll still take my A-Spec over the Supercup kit. I am through with the days of bottoming out my car on steep driveways and large speed bumps. I am definitely intrigued in doing the Koni SP3/A-Spec spring combination as 'I hate cars' has done in the future if I ever wear out the A-Spec struts.